Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Although in some industries its not down to the minimum wage as its more down to a poorer skill set from some local workers.

That has everything to do with how much some companies are then prepared to spend to skill up the local workforce and some companies take the easier and cheaper option of employing many of their workforce from abroad.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Most employers don't have that intention, although there have been some who have exploited people, it's true.

Zero hour contracts, formerly known as 'casual contracts' are there to provide flexibility both to employers and employees. Some employees like this flexibility - contracts with rigid hours would not suit them.

Frankly, if you are looking for full time employment, zero hour contracts are not what you should be looking for. If you are a student looking for some extra money during the holidays with flexible hours so you can still have plenty of time to socialise, these contracts are perfect.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

You think a lot of Brexiteers or working class Labour voting Brexit supporters are fed up?

We’re going from something apparently “obvious” to something loosely connected and speculative in the short space of four hours.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Labour should be concerned a lot by the latter.

No, this has always been obvious. But several years down the line and Corbyn, Thornberry, McDonnell and Watson, have forgotten about Teesside, Rochdale, Oldham, Doncaster, Blyth, for example, and there are many many more.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

That is my point though retail/manufacturing areas are all starting to go either agency or zero hour. they have cut off a large areas of the working class person and paying minimum wage for jobs that should clearly be paying much more for the work required hence the reason I said you get a lot of none english working in these roles now as they appear to be happy doing this.

Perhaps the same job over in their country pays half that to what they get over here I don't know the reasons why this side of the industry is changing.

This could be down to why these companies are moving as it clearly is cheaper abroad which they have stated before the reasons for doing this while some just like to use brexit as a reason.

Clearly there is a market area where all these foreigners steal our jobs so to speak and is the lower end of the market which doesn't appear to be getting reported on.

I work for the NHS we have nursing staff from all over the world. The first thing they say to me is the working rights and pay are much better than their own countries hence coming to work here.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Most employers don't want to minimise their costs? That sounds to me like a flat out fabrication.

While a tiny minority of people do enjoy flexibility the vast majority of the workforce enjoy stability.

Unrestricted capitalism is the problem and you've done an excellent explanation of why. Zero hour contracts are replacing fixed hour contracts in areas such as retail and hospitality - your answer is these people should just find full time jobs instead! Where? If it was that easy why haven't they - unless you are going to accuse them of being irrational.

I'm not sure it's that easy with a mortgage, family, etc.

---------- Post added at 20:26 ---------- Previous post was at 20:24 ----------

That still doesn't answer the question as to why 'no deal' Brexit is better for these people than leaving with a deal?

All I've heard is freedom of movement. We've already identified we can blame UK Governments for not imposing restrictions they could have and it goes even if we leave with a deal.

As Old Boy says above - can't they just have found other jobs?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I was under the assumption the UK other EU countries were restricted to the kind of deals they can do outside the EU?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Well the truth, is that no one can really answer that question, as no one knows the answer.

Hypothetically, we’ve probably mad decisions that have been to our detriment in the short term to benefit us in the long term. I have.

In my early career, ( about 25 years ago when 4K was a chunk to me} I took a £4K pay cut, to Join a company that I could see I could progress better in. It took me several years to get past where I was, but i’m Sure it was right move.

Long term v immediate term. Still no guarantee but you should not be scared to go for it.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

That's all I needed to know.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Indeed, but that is the stock answer for everything, on both sides. So don’t take any high grond from it..........I know you won’t.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I asked a question four hours ago and was told that there were clear and obvious answers. Here we are and there are none.

It's not about claiming high ground it's about facts. If you don't know of any clear or obvious reason why a working class Labour voter should prefer a no deal Brexit over a deal then I would advise in future you don't try to wing it for a couple of replies before being found out.

Specifically you said the following:

Clearly, it's not that naive as the entire brainpower of the right-leaning leave campaign on this forum has been unable to offer me a clear answer. Indeed, you specifically have now said that isn't possible to answer.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

If you wanted a specific answer you should've asked a working class Labour supporter.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Ready and waiting should one read my post in this thread. :)

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Excuse me........ahem.

Your question was a fairly general on as to why “no deal” Brexit was better for those in Labour heartlands than a “deal”

Whereas my reply also generally was that, they don’t really care. To them a Brexit is a Brexit.

I haven’t been found out about anything, as I haven’t been hiding. My point was and still is that a working class Labour voter in the midlands and northern heartlands couldn’t give a flying fcuk about a deal, they just want Brexit. I think i’ve been consistent with that point.

I stand by that 100%, it will be their downfall

You’re confused. Because your question implies that they care. My point is that they, and we, are beyond what a “deal” and “no deal” Brexit may or may not deliver.

They just want brexit with no prefixes or suffixes.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Wow. They’re ignorant. Between that and Old Boy implying they don’t understand the complexities of it - indeed implying many believe no deal is the only way to end freedom of movement.

Millions of voters incapable of gauging their best interests so instead will pick anything. And you say it’s the remain voters who have a poor view of leave voters.