Cable Forum - Britain outside the EU

Now now, we need to get back to the old normal, just long enough for OB and Pierre to pass onto the next world then we can solve the trillions of dollars of debt we are in.

I think the young people of today are far more sensible than to want your kind of anarchist/communist world that you want us all to inhabit, jfman. And you seem to forget that as the older generation ‘pass on’ as you put it, they are replaced by another older generation.

And of course, as people get older and wiser, they learn that left wing policies are simply the dreams of idealists which are so simplistic, they would never work.

And the new ‘older generation’ find that most ‘remainer’ types in their cohort have finally seen the value of Brexit, which is my rather clumsy attempt to return to the topic at hand.

Sephiroth

01-09-2021 13:34

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36091672)

Have I got this right, Kate Hoey appears on TV and says "Northern Ireland was sacrificed or we wouldn't have got brexit at all", so when she was saying "Brexit won't hurt Northern Ireland it'll brighten its future" she was lying or just didn't have a clue what she was talking about

It's a bit more complicated than you've put out.

During the Leave campaign, nobody foresaw May as PM and the wreck she'd make of Brexit, which tied our hands on NI.

Had we withdrawn from the NI Protocol during the negotiations, Brexit would have taken place as we'd have simply dropped out of the poxy EU.

TheDaddy

01-09-2021 20:31

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36091675)

What would have happened with Northetn Ireland then? In other news Weatherspoons has run out of beer, this is getting serious now!!

Sephiroth

01-09-2021 20:46

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36091725)

What would have happened with Northetn Ireland then? In other news Weatherspoons has run out of beer, this is getting serious now!!

Of course, I can't say for sure. But, as I've said before, water finds it's own level. NI's dairy trade would be with the UK mainland, which would take some adjustment.

Then there's the likely economic disaster that would befall the perfidious Irish (government). That might have banged some heads together to reach a sensible solution. I rather favoured this approach.

But your original point was about Kate Hoey and I inferred that you thought she was being hypocritical. May stitched us up.

jfman

01-09-2021 21:21

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36091673)

They are indeed, but someone somewhere will work out the dead absolutely shafted them with a one off windfall of selling state assets and an unsustainable low tax economy.

Quote:

And of course, as people get older and wiser, they learn that left wing policies are simply the dreams of idealists which are so simplistic, they would never work.

What part of £2 trillion of debt “works”?

Quote:

And the new ‘older generation’ find that most ‘remainer’ types in their cohort have finally seen the value of Brexit, which is my rather clumsy attempt to return to the topic at hand.

Inherently speculative.

mrmistoffelees

01-09-2021 21:31

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36091728)

There would have been a hard border on the island of Ireland and you know it. Regardless of who constructed said border the U.K. would be held responsible for its construction.

So in your scenario we would have no trade deal with the EU and the US wouldn’t have a deal with us as any trade deal with the US is as you well know dependent on their being no hard border.

Pains me to say this but Boris is a better statesman than you at least he realises what would have happened should we have taken your route.

Sephiroth

01-09-2021 21:37

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36091734)

There would have been a hard border on the island of Ireland and you know it. Regardless of who constructed said border the U.K. would be held responsible for its construction. Btw, the EU would say it's the UK's fault (as you hinted) and the UK would say it's the EU's fault. Simples. The US can go hang themselves.

So in your scenario we would have no trade deal with the EU and the US wouldn’t have a deal with us as any trade deal with the US is as you well know dependent on their being no hard border.

Pains me to say this but Boris is a better statesman than you at least he realises what would have happened should we have taken your route.

Regarding the hard border: No I don't know it. Eire would have been in a serious pickle and they might not have allowed a hard border.
You can see why I favoured this option.

On your trade deal point, I don't think it matters. If the EU wants to sell to our large market, they can work out how best to do it. A US trade deal matters not, imo, because we don't have one now.

Your last remark about Boris is beyond the pale! I at least would have known what I was doing and why I was doing it.

1andrew1

01-09-2021 22:01

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36091734)

Anyone in power would know exactly what a no-deal aka hard Brexit would mean. Checkpoints in Ireland and car factories et al fleeing the UK. I'm quite sure that if Seph was PM he would see the same intell as Johnson did and make the same pragmatic decision.

mrmistoffelees

01-09-2021 22:15

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36091736)

As much as I enjoy jousting with you that post reeks of both desperation and burying your head in the sand.

No deal equalled hard border simple as that. As Andrew says, even the mop haired buffoon understood that and subsequently agreed a deal.

Brexit has always been, is, and always will be incompatible with the situation in Ireland.

Sephiroth

01-09-2021 22:26

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36091747)

I don't know what you're sniffing, but I don't do desperation.

No deal meant hard border on paper. What would actually have happened we don't know. Ireland would have been the desperate party, with the prospect of its economy being trashed and being forced by its darling EU to put up a hard border. We would be looking on with some amusement - or at minimum 52% of us.

mrmistoffelees

01-09-2021 22:37

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36091752)

We appear to have moved from desperation to delusional. No it meant hard border full stop. As I said Ireland may have had to erect the border but potential global trading partners would have held the U.K. wholly accountable.

Let’s not forget, Ireland would have had the EU in its corner

1andrew1

01-09-2021 22:41

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36091752)

He's right I'm afraid, Seph, there is a distinct odor of desperation in the air.

It is WTO membership that would require a hard border. If the UK had ventured down the route of no deal then all its trade globally would have tariffs which would wreck its economy as companies fled the UK. (As it is, it is just the slowly deflating tyre effect that the country is enjoying.) Ireland would have counted the US and the EU nations on its side. Who would have supported the UK?

mrmistoffelees

01-09-2021 22:46

Re: Britain outside the EU

Parallels can be drawn between may/Boris in Brexit and trump/Biden Afghanistan

Riddle me this? as Biden could have overruled Trumps Afghan antics he didn’t

Boris could of quite easily taken out on no deal, he frequently stated that no deal was better than a bad deal, yet here we are with a bad deal. So, why didn’t he ?

Sephiroth

01-09-2021 22:47

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36091755)

You shouldn't reject out of hand that Ireland would not implement an order from the EU to erect a hard border. Remember, their economy would be trashed. It would have been very interesting.

You seem to be obsessed with everyone saying it was the UK's fault. You have no way of knowing that. A strong, resolute government (we don't have that) would have its ducks lined up and in any case, which countries outside the EU and US would care? They'd be eating their popcorn same as us.

mrmistoffelees

01-09-2021 22:57

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36091760)

Had we gone no deal who else’s fault could it have been???

As a Brexiteer you get funnier by the second, first of all it doesn’t matter if we upset the EU now it doesn’t matter if we upset the EU & the US

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:51.

Page 147 of 414

147

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page