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-   -   U.S President: Donald Trump (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33704412)

Hom3r 24-09-2017 13:16
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
The Americans need to activate the 25th amendment.

Mick 24-09-2017 14:53
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hom3r (Post 35917727)
The Americans need to activate the 25th amendment.
No they don't or can't.

It's not down to the 'American' public to activate it or invoke it. 25th Amendment actually covers succession to Presidency, in the event of inability due to incapacity, or death of the current sitting President.

The founding principles, is that in the event of one Chief Executive being incapacitated or dying while in office, that the U.S will always have a 'Chief Executive' and will respond if attacked or provoked.

Firstly, for the 25th Amendment to be invoked, it requires the President himself to declare his unfitness to serve the office and if he cannot do so because of his incapacity or unwillingness to so do, then it then involves the Vice President getting the agreement of the rest of the Trump Administration that the President is unfit to serve and make a written declaration to the Speaker of the House, and then it boils down to a two thirds vote, in both houses, this is hardly likely to happen.

There is no mechanism in the Constitution that covers a President being easily removed from office, especially if they have not committed a crime and that is on purpose, or else such clauses would be invoked and abused so easily, just because someone or some entity does not like what a President says or does.

Both Impeachment and 25th Amendment, are complex processes and both still require two thirds of both houses to remove a President from office.

I saw something so ridiculous yesterday, being said in a post on social media, some dude saying that Obama needs to become President again, while Trump is being investigated. Very important to note that Trump is not under FBI investigation for the Russian collusion story, Comey confirmed that when Testifying in June. Special Counsel Robert Mueller, maybe looking at Trump trying to obstruct justice, by firing Comey, we don't know, it's not been confirmed. But as for Obama becoming President again, even acting President, this is a no no. A former President cannot serve more than two terms.

Osem 24-09-2017 15:35
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35917743)
No they don't or can't.

It's not down to the 'American' public to activate it or invoke it. 25th Amendment actually covers succession to Presidency, in the event of inability due to incapacity, or death of the current sitting President.

The founding principles, is that in the event of one Chief Executive being incapacitated or dying while in office, that the U.S will always have a 'Chief Executive' and will respond if attacked or provoked.

Firstly, for the 25th Amendment to be invoked, it requires the President himself to declare his unfitness to serve the office and if he cannot do so because of his incapacity or unwillingness to so do, then it then involves the Vice President getting the agreement of the rest of the Trump Administration that the President is unfit to serve and make a written declaration to the Speaker of the House, and then it boils down to a two thirds vote, in both houses, this is hardly likely to happen.

There is no mechanism in the Constitution that covers a President being easily removed from office, especially if they have not committed a crime and that is on purpose, or else such clauses would be invoked and abused so easily, just because someone or some entity does not like what a President says or does.

Both Impeachment and 25th Amendment, are complex processes and both still require two thirds of both houses to remove a President from office.

I saw something so ridiculous yesterday, being said in a post on social media, some dude saying that Obama needs to become President again, while Trump is being investigated. Very important to note that Trump is not under FBI investigation for the Russian collusion story, Comey confirmed that when Testifying in June. Special Counsel Robert Mueller, maybe looking at Trump trying to obstruct justice, by firing Comey, we don't know, it's not been confirmed. But as for Obama becoming President again, even acting President, this is a no no. A former President cannot serve more than two terms.

Well some odd folks would like Bliar to be PM again. There's no accounting for taste...

Mick 24-09-2017 15:59
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35917744)
Well some odd folks would like Bliar to be PM again. There's no accounting for taste...
Exactly.

Well, just to remind you, it's the Labour conference this week, so where I would have normally had the news on in the background, I am going to make an exception this week, anything to watch and listen to those ghastly three running the show (Corbyn, Abbott and Mcdonnell). ;)

Osem 24-09-2017 16:09
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35917753)
Exactly.

Well, just to remind you, it's the Labour conference this week, so where I would have normally had the news on in the background, I am going to make an exception this week, anything to watch and listen to those ghastly three running the show (Corbyn, Abbott and Mcdonnell). ;)
Yes it's quaint how Labour make all sorts of indignant fuss about supposedly 'nasty' remarks made by 'nasty' Tories when they have a detestable thug like McDonnell as Chancellor/Deputy PM and are being controlled by the Momentum mob. Only Labour could refuse to accept the hypocrisy and pass themselves off as 'nice', 'tolerant' blah blah blah...

Ignitionnet 24-09-2017 17:18
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35917723)
I don't think it's authoritative, Trump is just showing how exceedingly patriotic he is and that will ramp up favourably with his base.
Few things say exceedingly patriotic like draft dodging and extensive tax avoidance, potentially evasion once investigations are complete.

Mr K 24-09-2017 21:18
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35917759)
Few things say exceedingly patriotic like draft dodging and extensive tax avoidance, potentially evasion once investigations are complete.
Oh come on, he did patriotically brag hours after 9/11 that he now had the tallest building in Manhattan (he was wrong btw).

Mick 24-09-2017 21:47
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35917806)
Oh come on, he did patriotically brag hours after 9/11 that he now had the tallest building in Manhattan (he was wrong btw).
Oh come on actually, no he didn't. His words were misinterpreted to some tune.

Fact checking site Snopes rates it as 'Mixture' meaning there is more to the story than you are painting it in.

http://www.snopes.com/trump-bragged-tallest-building/

Quote:
Critics maintain that Trump’s referencing the relative height of 40 Wall Street in the immediate aftermath of the World Trade Center towers’ fall was completely gratuitous and irrelevant to the discussion, the hallmark of an egoist with no compunctions about using tragedy as an opportunity for self-promotion.

But in the context of the full interview, Trump’s remarks could perhaps be considered defensible.

First of all, the newscasters to whom Trump was speaking were appealing to their audience by repeatedly referring to his status in the New York real estate community, describing him as the “man behind lots of real estate in Manhattan” and a “visionary in New York real estate,” and they specifically asked him about the Trump Tower and the Trump Building, which they termed “one of the great tourist attractions in the world” and “one of the landmark buildings down in the financial district,” respectively. It was to be expected that he would respond to those lead-ins with at least a little bit of subtle swagger (which he expressed matter-of-factly rather than hyperbolically).

Second, Trump’s remark was made in response to questions about whether his buildings had sustained any damage and whether he was taking any precautions to protect them. It the chaos of that day, it wasn’t too much of a stretch to think that Trump was pondering whether the (as-yet unknown) terrorists, having destroyed the two tallest buildings in lower Manhattan, might be coming after the next-tallest.

Damien 26-09-2017 12:33
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Looks the repeal of Obama is dead, again, for now:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/u...dead.html?_r=0

Quote:
A last-ditch attempt by President Trump and Senate Republicans to dismantle the Affordable Care Act appeared to collapse on Monday as a pivotal senator announced her firm opposition to the latest repeal plan, virtually ensuring that Republicans would not have the votes they need for passage.

The announcement by the senator, Susan Collins of Maine, effectively dooms what had been a long-shot effort by Republicans in the Senate to make one more attempt at repealing the health law after failing in dramatic fashion in July.

Ms. Collins, one of three Republican senators who opposed the last repeal attempt in July, described the latest plan as “deeply flawed.” She expressed concerns about cuts to Medicaid as well as the rolling back of protections for people with pre-existing medical conditions.
'Looks like' bring the important word. Last time they said they made big changes to the bill that would be revealed within an hour of the vote...

Mick 26-09-2017 12:47
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
It's a massive failure on 2nd branch of Government this (Congress). Millions of Americans suffering huge increases to premiums. But of course Trump will be the scapegoat. It's not Trump's job to legislate, only agree to sign them into law or veto them.

Damien 26-09-2017 12:57
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35918049)
It's a massive failure on 2nd branch of Government this. Millions of Americans suffering huge increases to premiums. But of course Trump will be the scapegoat. It's not Trump's job to legislate, only agree to sign them into law or veto them.
The President can be a massive influence on legislation by working with congress. Most Presidents will have legislation they want to pass drafted up by White House officials in conjunction with the House. There is a reason the ACA was nicknamed Obamacare. If Obama is to 'blame' for Obamacare then surely Trump is reasonable, partly, for this failure to repeal it.

Trump wanted Obamacare repealed and campaigned on it but in Office he doesn't seem to care as much. He said a lot about no one losing healthcare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8mcN0zweQE but he has since be willing to leave it all to congress.

Still, this is very much a Republican bill. Their failure is greater because they've spent the last six years promising this, even claiming they had policies ready which we can now see wasn't true.

Ignitionnet 26-09-2017 12:58
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35918049)
It's a massive failure on 2nd branch of Government this (Congress). Millions of Americans suffering huge increases to premiums. But of course Trump will be the scapegoat. It's not Trump's job to legislate, only agree to sign them into law or veto them.
He made promises he couldn't keep and discussed how simple it would be to deliver better healthcare at a fraction of the cost. That's on him. Should've remembered it's not his job to legislate.

Trump's behaviour around funding the ACA is responsible for at least part of the premium increases. His administration is responsible for various Machiavellian actions geared towards degrading the quality and increasing the cost of care provided via the ACA.

http://health.oliverwyman.com/conten...arket_unc.html

Quote:
Two market influences, in particular, are complicating 2018 rate setting: the uncertainty surrounding continued funding of cost sharing reduction (CSR) payments and the question of how the relaxation of the individual mandate will impact enrollment and risk pools.

New analysis by Oliver Wyman projects that up to two-thirds of 2018 rate increases will be due to the uncertainty surrounding these two market influences. For example, if an insurer submits a rate increase of 30 percent, two-thirds of that increase will be attributable to the CSR and individual mandate uncertainty.
If they have any sense they'll just get on with Medicaid for all with private insurance top-up plans. There's a really good reason why nowhere else in the developed world follows the US model.

Mick 26-09-2017 13:25
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
I am failing to see, how the current Administration is responsible for the increases, when they were already rising sharply in the previous Obama Administration, well before Trump took office.

The State of Arizona saw increases over 100% last year, before November 8th Election. My own American friends, saw massive jumps as early as 2015, how can the steep rises be attributed to Trump, specifically when he was not in government ?

Either way, the lack of the coming together approach in Congress, in that a whole bunch of Senators will vote down a bill, no matter what, because of who is in the White House and I accept it was like this for Obama too, but to not want to do the job expected of them by the American people, it's sad.

Osem 26-09-2017 13:39
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35918054)
I am failing to see, how the current Administration is responsible for the increases, when they were already rising sharply in the previous Obama Administration, well before Trump took office.

The State of Arizona saw increases over 100% last year, before November 8th Election. My own American friends, saw massive jumps as early as 2015, how can the steep rises be attributed to Trump, specifically when he was not in government ?

Either way, the lack of the coming together approach in Congress, in that a whole bunch of Senators will vote down a bill, no matter what, because of who is in the White House and I accept it was like this for Obama too, but to not want to do the job expected of them by the American people, it's sad.
Mere details. Best not to get bogged down in them... )

Damien 26-09-2017 13:45
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35918054)
I am failing to see, how the current Administration is responsible for the increases, when they were already rising sharply in the previous Obama Administration, well before Trump took office.

The State of Arizona saw increases over 100% last year, before November 8th Election. My own American friends, saw massive jumps as early as 2015, how can the steep rises be attributed to Trump, specifically when he was not in government ?

Either way, the lack of the coming together approach in Congress, in that a whole bunch of Senators will vote down a bill, no matter what, because of who is in the White House and I accept it was like this for Obama too, but to not want to do the job expected of them by the American people, it's sad.
He is just saying that this year the uncertainty will also cause premiums to raise. There were large increases before relating to that. Even Obama has said there are flaws that need to be worked on, mostly how they balance the coverage of sick/healthy people. They didn't expect as many unhealthy people needing healthcare amongst the insured pool.

The Republicans have enough senators to pass the bill. They can't find a compromise they all agree on.

You mention cost increases but what could be done to fix that? What they have now took a lot of out of Obama presidency as it is. Health care is hard and it's expensive. Every Republican plan has weakened protection for pre-existing conditions and would have priced out over people. Your friends for example would likely have only benefited if they didn't have pre-existing conditions they need covered and don't use Medicaid.


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