Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35938270)

Leaving the EU does NOT mean we won't be trading with the EU so your supposition that suddenly we'll have 40% less trade is just not valid.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Bircho (Post 35938269)

If only it was that simple. All 27 EU Governments have to agree to the deal. It only takes one to veto and we are stuck out. 40+% of our trade will never, ever be replaced with trade deals with Argentina, the Cayman Islands or wherever you are wanting to strike deals with.

You don't shut out your biggest customer - it's simple business and economics. Our business is currently trying to work on its five year forecasts - we cannot get past next year at the moment. We are seeing businesses refusing to commit to anything past the next year. Yesterday, I had the unpleasant task of making 9 people redundant as a result. I have another 10 to follow next week. That is is just me - I have colleague who are telling me similar situations. These are high quality, highly paid jobs. So yeah, they may be able to find jobs picking fruit or whatever but it is not quite the same.

So if you were one of those 27 Governments and someone came to you and said we would like frictionless trade on motor vehicles because its suits us both - if you are in the Czech Republic where all your cars are made either there or in Germany would you say yeah lets go for that. But we get through that so we move on to dairy products and we say we don't want to trade in that because we want to protect our own fathers - the French Government says well sorry - you can't have the cars then.

And so it goes on and on and on.

I think some people really need to wake up and take the caffine smelling test. The EU have been consistent - you can't have your cake and eat it. We do need them more than they need us - and no matter how much you convince yourself otherwise by saying it over and over again - when you look at the cold bare facts, when you look at people being put out of work because of the uncertainly, when you look at what is happening away from the rhetoric and bull that comes out of those who will benefit from watering down of regulation, employment rights and everything else, then you realise this is real and real people's lifes are being affected.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35938366)

My God, Bircho, how on Earth, as a businessman, can you not see beyond this blinkered view?

You talk about Argentina and the Caymen Islands! What about the US, India, China, Australia and the other big players?

Take your blinkers off and look at the opportunities!

That's what businessmen/women do, right?

And by the way, those other EU countries want an agreement with the UK, too. Don't get sucked into Barnier's rhetoric!

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35938366)

And by the way, those other EU countries want an agreement with the UK, too. Don't get sucked into Barnier's rhetoric!

Originally Posted by Bircho (Post 35938382)

I also said some other country in a land far far away. But go on then, I'll bite. You tell me, and those people now being put out of work, how logistically deals with US, China, India and that economic powerhouse Australia will replace the deals we currently have in the next couple of years or so. And be realistic and take out the theoretical claptrap because that is all we have had for the last 2 years and we are still no further on.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35938389)

Business people know that Brexit just adds to costs and red tape.


The countries you mention like China, US and India are the epitome of protectionism. Good luck any country signing a free trade deal with those three, it won't happen. Owning an airline operating in the US? Forget it, US shareholders have to control the company. Building a car factory in China? Foreign companies have to set up a joint venture with a local company; imported cars have massive import taxes on them.

---------- Post added at 09:51 ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 ----------


Spain wants an agreement with the UK - joint management of Gibraltar’s airport. No wonder the residents of Gibraltar voted to remain.

https://www.ft.com/content/907fb2d8-...6-4a6390addb44

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35938422)

You can call the government's objectives claptrap if you want to, but you are using the same old wrecking arguments we have been hearing for the last two years from remainers.

You may not believe that the government will get a deal with the EU and you point out that all has been words or 'claptrap' as you put it. And yet, within a year, you will be proved wrong. The UK will get a good deal (it's in the interests of both sides) and on top of that, we will be free to negotiate our own trade deals.

So not only will we still have pretty much the same ability to export to the EU without tariffs and with an agreement on the customs arrangements (outside the existing Customs Union), but the trade deals we want with other countries will be on top of that.

The leaders of some prominent EU countries have been voicing concern about Barnier's hard line approach, and as we near the deadline, he will have some climbing down to do from his high perch.

---------- Post added at 14:27 ---------- Previous post was at 14:22 ----------



And how is that, Andrew? They don't know what the deal is yet! :p:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35938723)

Nails it! We'll be back on worse terms I suspect.

https://www.ft.com/content/0faac65e-...a-4574d7dabfb6

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35938748)

I suppose that kind of talk appeals to a certain mindset. It would be good to have a more serious discussion.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35938750)

Repeating the names of protectionist countries like China, the USA and India is not a serious debate.

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35938752)

Neither is rehashing the same old crap & fear mongering BS from the Anti-Brexit media.

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35938754)

of course the Brextremist media never tell lies