Cable Forum - Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out

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Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35857686)

Arthur, no doctors work 18 hours a day, 7 days a week.

What about 18 days a day

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out

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Strike leaders now fear thousands of the medics will cross picket lines as they do not support the action.
Only 4.3 per cent of junior doctors supported the current round of strikes

The walkout, due to start next week, will cause 500,000 operations to be cancelled and four million appointments lost, hospitals association NHS Providers has said.

And sources have described the strikes as a step too far that will put patients’ lives at risk.
Sources have said this round of strikes could put patients lives at risk

Some 37,770 of England’s 55,000 junior doctors are members of the British Medical Association, giving them a vote on industrial action.

But just 20 per cent (7,540) returned an August ballot on the fresh strikes set to begin on September 12.

And only 31.5 per cent (2,375) of those who did vote backed the full five-day walkouts.

Source linky

This is looking more like a political strike by militants to try to get at the government. :(

It'll all end in tears as the miners found out.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35857711)

Source linky

This is looking more like a political strike by militants to try to get at the government. :(

It'll all end in tears as the miners found out.

we had an alternative for coal not sure their is an alternative to doctors;)

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35857711)

Source linky

This is looking more like a political strike by militants to try to get at the government. :(

It'll all end in tears as the miners found out.

It's been political for some time imo ,the doctors got what they wanted some time ago but they allow the likes of Dr Ellen McCourt to have power ,she's the BMI version of Athur Scargill

---------- Post added at 09:48 ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35857712)

we had an alternative for coal not sure their is an alternative to doctors;)

doesn't mean we should be blackmailed a few militants though

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35857713)

It's been political for some time imo ,the doctors got what they wanted some time ago but they allow the likes of Dr Ellen McCourt to have power ,she's the BMI version of Athur Scargill

Seems to me that if the doctors want the nuclear option then Hunt should just sack them. A few short weeks of no money and the sane, moderate majority will sign the new contract. The militants will have been weeded out and the shortfall should be made up by recruiting abroad.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out

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Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35857715)

It'll be interesting to see what the turnout will be

Re: Still support them

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35857525)

Hunts lied all the way through, what makes you think this contract is worth the paper it's written on, shorter hours but with no extra staff and two extra days to cover, you do the maths and as much as I support anyone's right to withdraw labour I hope we would never hear of a doctor leaving a patient in need of treatment because they'd gone over hours

short question what would you do?

I think keeping it as a 5 day service is not a credible answer.

Re: Junior Doctors Prepare For First Full Walk-Out

Hugh, some doctors work 36 hours without having a decent break. When l worked in deep cleaning of Hospital Kitchens. The stories that l could tell you would fill a book.

I have the deepest respect of ALL hospital staff, wether Drs or Nurses or auxiallry staff. L saw the pressure they are under.

They deserve what ever they can make - and more. I was working in a Hospital in the Midlands and l met a young Doctor. And got talking. When we finished working. We went back the following morning at SIX AM. and she was still there from the day before. And you could see it. About 12 o clock. We went to the canteen. And she was asleep in the chair and her bleeper went off. She woke up and went back to work.

I will ALWAYS support the Doctors. Mr Hunt and Theresa cannot treat the people that save our lives like pieces of meat

Re: Still support them

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrysalis (Post 35857782)

short question what would you do?

I think keeping it as a 5 day service is not a credible answer.

Increasing it to 7 without putting any extra cash in isn't credible either, if we want a 7 day nhs we should be prepared to pay for it but considering iirc 10% of doctor vacancies haven't been filled I wouldn't hold your breath.

Re: Still support them

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35857790)

Nothing to really do with the new contract.

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Costs of implementing seven day services vary. In the two London trusts the standards for those services examined are already largely being met because of past investments. In most of the other trusts in the sample, the costs of implementing seven day services are typically 1.5% to 2% of total income or, expressed another way, a 5% to 6% addition to the cost of emergency admissions.
• Given the small sample and the apparent lower need for investment in London it is hard to calculate a potential cost for the English NHS as a whole. It is also likely that seven day services would progress best by local negotiation and carried out at varying speeds, partly because trusts start from different positions but also considering the wider system change likely to be necessary.

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Investment at the ‘front-end’ of the hospital (accident and emergency departments and admissions units with supporting diagnostics) can pay for itself in some trusts, by reducing unnecessary admissions and shortening lengths of stay. Two trusts in the sample, Salford Royal and Chesterfield, are examples of this. Payment by Results (PBR) rules were often set aside so that both the hospital and its commissioners could benefit from reducing admissions, where planned changes reduced the ‘net cost’ to the local NHS.
• Investment in seven day services after admission is unlikely to be cost-neutral in most trusts under the present configuration of services. However, it is fair to conclude from this small study that the move to seven day services does appear achievable, but it may be too expensive and unsustainable for all existing hospitals to move all their current range of services to a seven day basis. Reconfiguration of services may substantially reduce the cost, but this has not been tested in this research.

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The Prime Minister has announced details of a new, voluntary contract for GPs to deliver 7-day care for all patients by 2020. He has also unveiled proposals to deliver 7-day hospital services across half the country by 2018. These are the next steps in making England the first country in the world to provide a truly 7-day health service, underpinned by a strong economy and £10 billion of investment in the NHS. The plans are a key part of the government’s commitment to deliver security, stability and opportunity for the British people.

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The government is also committing £750 million over the next 3 years to fund improvements in premises, technology and modern ways of working, such as supporting federations and larger practices in providing 7-day services through a flexible range of face-to-face, telephone, email and Skype consultations.

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These concerns have led to calls for better service models in hospitals at the weekend from Health Education England, the Academy of Medical Royal Colleges, the Royal College of Physicians, and the Royal College of Surgeons with the aim of not only improving patient outcomes but also to enrich the training of the next generation of NHS doctors.
The problem of diluted services and poorer outcomes at the weekend is NOT unique to the NHS. In fact, as the largest and most comprehensive health service in the world, the NHS is well positioned to solve the issue. There are encouraging examples of NHS organisations that have moved to making healthcare services more accessible seven days a week to avoid compromising safety and patient experience. These moves have been strongly supported by the main professional bodies and the media

Re: Still support them

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Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35857795)

Nothing to really do with the new contract.

That's how they're going to do the 7 days then, with Skype. Plus many these statistics and quotes you keep posting are about to be tested in court, much of what hunt has said is already proven to be bs, we'll know very soon how much of the rest of it is to

Re: Still support them

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35857797)

1) STILL ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE STRIKE AND THE NEW CONTRACT. SO WHAT IS? Apart from wanting to be promoted for NOT practising medicine.
2) The quotes are from ACTUAL pilot studies by the MEDICAL profession.

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Two trusts in the sample, Salford Royal and Chesterfield,

Re: Still support them

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Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35857810)

So were some of the studies hunt quoted except some of the studies were opinion pieces, most weren't independently peer reviewed, some derived data from the same study population and only a couple used data collected from the past decade and when the facts didn't fit his stance he simply lied about what was in them, HOPE THEY'RE NOT THE SAME STUDIES YOU'RE QUOTING FROM oh look I can shout to.

Besides which the strike in September has wisely been called of

https://www.bma.org.uk/collective-vo...t-negotiations

Re: Still support them

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35857859)

Those pilot studies are examples of where 7-day is happening right now.

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Our sample of providers
9. The trusts in our sample were selected so that there would be a reasonable spread and mix of different size hospitals in different locations (London, large conurbations and more rural). They are all foundation trusts (FTs). Trusts were keen to explore the costs of seven day services, but were at different stages of implementation. We are grateful for their contribution to this work (Appendix 1). The trusts are:
• Aintree University Hospital NHS Foundation Trust
• Chelsea and Westminster Hospital NHS Foundation Trust
• Chesterfield Royal Hospital NHS Foundation Trust
• County Durham and Darlington NHS Foundation Trust
• Dorset County Hospital NHS Foundation Trust
• Guy’s and St Thomas’ NHS Foundation Trust
• Salford Royal NHS Foundation Trust
• Wrightington, Wigan and Leigh NHS Foundation Trust.

Re: Still support them

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35857797)

I can't see where Hunt has BS'd anyone unless i'm missing something ,he has cut the hours in the new contract ,he has given a pay rise in the new contract and he has put safeguards in place to prevent overwork all in the new contract ,so since the doctors have yet to adopt the new contract how can anyone say that Hunt has lied and BS'd everyone ,maybe i'm missing something :shrug: