Cable Forum
Page 14 of 21 « First 410111213 14 15161718 Last »
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Cable Forum (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/index.php)
-   Current Affairs (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   President Trump 2.0 (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33712850)

Chris 19-03-2025 07:49
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36192995)
:notopic: … but, to charge a long-range EV in five minutes without just clipping a pair of jump leads straight onto the nearest pylon will take some serious hardware. The infrastructure requirements for that would be … challenging.

I can see why news like that would hit swasticar shares but the reality is, no cars will be getting a 5-minute charge for quite some time yet.

Hugh 19-03-2025 08:26
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Agreed - much like Deepseek, probably vapourware, but the news release does its job by making the markets nervous.

However, tbf, BYD did start out as a battery company…

Update - a bit more detail here

Tesla can already charge 172 miles worth in 15 minutes, and XPeng and Zeekr can add about 280 miles and 342 miles of range in 10 minutes, so it may not be too fanciful.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...lon-musk-tesla

Damien 19-03-2025 08:56
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
The thing with the cars, or AI, from China is that they're good enough at a much lower production cost to spook investors in these American companies. A lot of the value they were seeing in OpenAI or Telsa was the perception of an advantage these companies had in the market that had a high barrier to entry.

Hugh 19-03-2025 09:24
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Also, Tesla's P/E ratio is insane at 110 (it's been up around 220).

For comparison, Apple is 33, Google is 31, and Microsoft is 33, with Apple and Google revenue 4 times that of Tesla, and MS 3 times.

Pierre 19-03-2025 12:17
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36192994)
Or….

Investigate it properly, and stop the things that are proven to be wrong (using experienced auditors and forensic accountants, rather than a bunch of hackers who don’t like the look of something they don’t understand and don’t try to understand), doing an impact assessment of what that "stop" means, and then proceed with appropriate actions.

https://wapo.st/4idSeP3 (gifted article, not behind paywall)
That WP article, as expected, is not the take down you may think it is. It claims to debunk 11 out of 12 claims of wasteful US government spending.

I'm happy to go through them

Quote:
1. “$1.5 million to ‘advance diversity equity and inclusion in Serbia’s workplaces and business communities’”

This is mostly accurate. USAID provided $1.5 million to a group called Grupa Izadji, which focuses on creating opportunities for young LGBTQ people.
I would call that totally accurate, not mostly.

Quote:
2. “$70,000 for production of a ‘DEI musical’ in Ireland”

This is wrong. This was a State Department grant, not USAID.
whether or not it was State Dept or USAID it's still the government. DOGE is not the department of USAID efficiency.

Quote:
3. “$2.5 million for electric vehicles for Vietnam”

This is wrong. This was for more than electric vehicles. USAID launched a $2.5 million fund that provided awards up to $100,000 to organizations with promising new products, business models, or financing models in Danang or Ho Chi Minh cities.
It's still £2.5M to Vietnam, If I was a US taxpayer I be thinking about $100,000 grants to US small businesses with promising new products.

Quote:
4. “$47,000 for a ‘transgender opera’ in Colombia”

This is wrong. USAID did not fund this. The White House appears to be referring to a $25,000 State Department grant to Universidad De Los Andes in Bogotá to stage an opera,
Still government money.

Quote:
5. “$2 million for sex changes and ‘LGBT activism’ in Guatemala”

This is misleading, as it suggests USAID arranged for sex changes. The three-year grant to Asociación Lambda, a Guatemala LGBTIQ+ organization, was to “strengthen trans-led organizations to deliver gender-affirming health care
Still £2M given to Guatemala LGBTIQ+

Quote:
6. “$6 million to fund tourism in Egypt”


This is wrong. This initiative was launched in the first Trump administration to “increase educational opportunities and strengthen the livelihoods of the people of North Sinai,” according to the citation provided by the White House. The money would “provide access to transportation for rural communities and economic livelihood programming for families.” There is no mention of funding tourism.
Fair , this one appears incorrect.

Quote:
7. “Hundreds of thousands of dollars for a nonprofit linked to designated terrorist organizations — even AFTER an inspector general launched an investigation”

This is dubious. Allegations of links to Pakistani terror groups have never been proved and have been denied as “baseless and defamatory” by the organization, known as Helping Hand for Relief and Development. Some GOP members of Congress for years have claimed the group has terrorism links
Not proven either way.

Quote:
8. “Millions to EcoHealth Alliance — which was involved in research at the Wuhan lab”

This lacks context. Before the pandemic, up until 2019, USAID provided $1.1 million to EcoHealth Alliance, an environmental health nonprofit, via a subagreement on virus research. USAID initially awarded a grant to the University of California at Davis to improve monitoring of zoonotic viruses with pandemic potential in African and Asian countries. UC-Davis then hired EcoHealth, which in turn contracted with Wuhan University and the Wuhan Institute of Virology, to collect biological samples from roughly 1,500 individuals in the Yunnan province with exposure to bats, other wildlife and domestic animals, according to the Government Accountability Office. The origin of the covid virus has still not been determined. In 2022, USAID awarded EcoHealth $4.7 million for a conservation project to improve farming practices in southwest Liberia — completely unrelated to virus research.
Regardless of context $4.7M to improve farming in South West Liberia? yes. I'm sure the farmers got that.

Quote:
9. “Hundreds of thousands of meals that went to al-Qaeda-affiliated fighters in Syria”

This is highly misleading. As the article cited by the White House makes clear, investigators, including the USAID inspector general, discovered that the head of a nongovernmental organization diverted $9 million intended for Syrian civilians to combatant groups. He was charged in a 12-count indictment unsealed in November
So $9M US taxpayers money was fraudulently embezzled by an NGO, this what DOGE is there for, to ensure better oversight.

Quote:
10. “Funding to print ‘personalized’ contraceptives birth control devices in developing countries”

This is misleading. USAID gave a grant to the University of Texas at Austin to develop personalized 3D-printed nonhormonal intrauterine devices (IUDs). The grant was part of a program managed by Eastern Virginia Medical School at Old Dominion University and USAID to improve reproductive health by researching low-cost, safe and noninvasive HIV prevention methods as well as contraceptives.
That's not misleading, that's accurate.

Quote:
11. “Hundreds of millions of dollars to fund ‘irrigation canals, farming equipment, and even fertilizer used to support the unprecedented poppy cultivation and heroin production in Afghanistan,’ benefiting the Taliban”

This is false. USAID never intended to support opium poppy cultivation or the Taliban, and in fact the United States sought to stem it. The White House cites a right-wing news site’s account of a 2018 report by the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR)
correct, this one is wrong

So out of the 11, it's actually only debunked 2. with 1 unclear either way.

Great objective reporting.

Chris 19-03-2025 12:40
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36193008)
Agreed - much like Deepseek, probably vapourware, but the news release does its job by making the markets nervous.

However, tbf, BYD did start out as a battery company…

Update - a bit more detail here

Tesla can already charge 172 miles worth in 15 minutes, and XPeng and Zeekr can add about 280 miles and 342 miles of range in 10 minutes, so it may not be too fanciful.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...lon-musk-tesla
A model 3 swasticar can charge from 10-80% in about half an hour using a proprietary supercharger that offers 250kW, (which for comparison is about ten times the maximum load a domestic supply can offer in the UK).

Assuming you have a battery that can receive a charge faster than that, and a charger that can supply it, to half that time needs 500kW. To do it in 5 minutes would need 6 times the power - 1,500kW. One and a half megawatts. And that’s just looking at the simple maths of ‘adding this much to the battery means passing this much through the charger’, without thinking about any inefficiencies. 1.5mW is about as much as a small business would use in a month. Supplying a line of BYD super-superchargers at Tebay services with enough electricity to charge even one car at a time in 5 minutes would be a serious undertaking.

Paul 19-03-2025 18:08
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
From that article;
Quote:
there are dozens of chargers on main roads as fast as 350kW.
Great, so that should cover the millions of cars on the UK roads then. No problem. :erm:

mrmistoffelees 19-03-2025 20:12
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
To add a couple of points

In theory you can have whatever kW charger you want, but ultimately your battery SoC is going to dictate your charging speed

‘Fast’ DC charging will lead to the battery degrading more quickly

Paul 20-03-2025 00:17
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
On that point, we should get back to the topic please.

Hugh 21-03-2025 15:36
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/bri...nt-2025-03-20/

The GOV.UK site used to say (in February, and before)

Quote:
"The authorities in the U.S. set and enforce entry rules."
It now says

Quote:
"You should comply with all entry, visa and other conditions of entry. The authorities in the U.S. set and enforce entry rules strictly. You may be liable to arrest or detention if you break the rules."

ianch99 21-03-2025 16:12
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Meanwhile in the Land Of The Free:

French Scientist Reportedly Denied U.S. Entry Due to Trump Criticism

Quote:
A French scientist on his way to a conference in the United States was allegedly denied entry by Customs and Border Patrol over messages found on his phone that criticized President Trump’s science cuts.

The French newspaper Le Monde reports that on March 9, a space researcher was randomly selected upon arrival in Houston for a search, and CBP found messages criticizing the Trump administration’s treatment of scientists, which, according to the agency, “conveyed hatred of Trump & could be qualified as terrorism.”
Germany also issues travel warning for US ...

There is also anecdotal evidence that planes are playing to US much emptier than normal.

Chris 21-03-2025 17:28
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Yeah … missus and I have been anticipating the freedom of having a pretty much grown-up family and starting to think about exploring further afield and we had talked about visiting the US. Safe to say we won’t be going anywhere near it while Trump’s in office, nor are we likely to, if any successor anointed by him wins the 2028 election. It’s a shame.

papa smurf 21-03-2025 17:52
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36193128)
Yeah … missus and I have been anticipating the freedom of having a pretty much grown-up family and starting to think about exploring further afield and we had talked about visiting the US. Safe to say we won’t be going anywhere near it while Trump’s in office, nor are we likely to, if any successor anointed by him wins the 2028 election. It’s a shame.
You're assuming there will be elections and Trump is going

Hugh 21-03-2025 18:38
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36193128)
Yeah … missus and I have been anticipating the freedom of having a pretty much grown-up family and starting to think about exploring further afield and we had talked about visiting the US. Safe to say we won’t be going anywhere near it while Trump’s in office, nor are we likely to, if any successor anointed by him wins the 2028 election. It’s a shame.
Agreed - we have had half a dozen US road trips with two friends in the last ten years, and we had planned (but not booked) a trip to DC then down the coast, across to the Blue Ridge Mountain route, than back to the Carolina’s coasts, finishing up at Atlanta (friend is a very keen golfer, and we were going to visit Augusta (my son’s friend father is a member, and would have shown us round)).

That’s not happening now.

jfman 21-03-2025 18:49
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
It seems quite odd to not do something you wanted to do because of who a country elected. The majority of people either stayed on the couch or voted for Kamala. Life is short.

Hugh 21-03-2025 19:15
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36193138)
It seems quite odd to not do something you wanted to do because of who a country elected. The majority of people either stayed on the couch or voted for Kamala. Life is short.
Life is about choices - I choose not to visit somewhere where I may get ICEd or sent back to the U.K. because I have made social media posts which are less than complimentary to the current incumbent.

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2025/03/7.gif

We visited the USA four times during Trump’s previous Presidency (mixture of road trips (California, Massachusetts/Cape Cod, & Florida) and visiting bro-in-law in New England) - the risk/reward ratio was different then.

Chris 21-03-2025 19:18
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36193138)
It seems quite odd to not do something you wanted to do because of who a country elected. The majority of people either stayed on the couch or voted for Kamala. Life is short.
Oh, I’m not taking a political stand - I’ve have left Scotland years ago if that was the case :D

It is because there is a small, but non-zero chance of being messed about with at immigration, for reasons directly connected with Trump and his policies. And the number of stories like this is mounting up on a weekly basis at the moment. I choose not to deal with that possibility.

Itshim 21-03-2025 19:21
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36193140)
Oh, I’m not taking a political stand - I’ve have left Scotland years ago if that was the case :D

It is because there is a small, but non-zero chance of being messed about with at immigration, for reasons directly connected with Trump and his policies. And the number of stories like this is mounting up on a weekly basis at the moment. I choose not to deal with that possibility.
Smart money is on him getting his third term if not directly then by proxy. The start of a dynasty :confused:

Chris 21-03-2025 19:40
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36193141)
Smart money is on him getting his third term if not directly then by proxy. The start of a dynasty :confused:
He won’t serve a third term. There is no provision to suspend the US constitution (the only part he can suspend is ‘no jail without trial’.) and the constitution says he can’t have a third term, and that his second term automatically ends 4 years, to the hour, after he was sworn in. Even if he locks himself in the Oval Office he simply will not be the president any more. No mechanism to keep him in power exists.

It is entirely likely that, he having served only 4 years, the country will be minded to stay GOP, and the current VP is usually well-placed to get the nomination. Vance therefore stands a fairly good chance of becoming president in January 2029. However, Trump will be 82 by then and I’d be surprised if he’s in much of a state to pull many strings by that point. Frankly I’m not convinced he will still be in effective control of the government by the time his term ends.

Mr K 21-03-2025 21:19
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36193143)
He won’t serve a third term. There is no provision to suspend the US constitution (the only part he can suspend is ‘no jail without trial’.) and the constitution says he can’t have a third term, and that his second term automatically ends 4 years, to the hour, after he was sworn in. Even if he locks himself in the Oval Office he simply will not be the president any more. No mechanism to keep him in power exists.

It is entirely likely that, he having served only 4 years, the country will be minded to stay GOP, and the current VP is usually well-placed to get the nomination. Vance therefore stands a fairly good chance of becoming president in January 2029. However, Trump will be 82 by then and I’d be surprised if he’s in much of a state to pull many strings by that point. Frankly I’m not convinced he will still be in effective control of the government by the time his term ends.
Not so sure he's got a grip on things now.

1andrew1 21-03-2025 21:22
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36193154)
Not so sure he's got a grip on things now.
We know who's got a grip on Trump, though!

Pierre 21-03-2025 21:47
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36193138)
It seems quite odd to not do something you wanted to do because of who a country elected. The majority of people either stayed on the couch or voted for Kamala. Life is short.
The TDS is very strong with some on here.

Making decisions, as is if they matter in any way?

---------- Post added at 21:43 ---------- Previous post was at 21:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36193139)
Life is about choices - I choose not to visit somewhere where I may get ICEd or sent back to the U.K. because I have made social media posts which are less than complimentary to the current incumbent.

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2025/03/7.gif

We visited the USA four times during Trump’s previous Presidency (mixture of road trips (California, Massachusetts/Cape Cod, & Florida) and visiting bro-in-law in New England) - the risk/reward ratio was different then.

Like you matter …….at all……….that’s an ego!

---------- Post added at 21:45 ---------- Previous post was at 21:43 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36193141)
Smart money is on him getting his third term if not directly then by proxy. The start of a dynasty :confused:
He’s not getting a 3rd term……….that’s it.

---------- Post added at 21:46 ---------- Previous post was at 21:45 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36193154)
Not so sure he's got a grip on things now.
It’s not the U.K., they have rules over there.

---------- Post added at 21:47 ---------- Previous post was at 21:46 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36193155)
We know who's got a grip on Trump, though!
Who?

Hugh 21-03-2025 22:53
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Like you matter …….at all……….that’s an ego!
Not an ego, just learning from what’s happened to others, and mitigating risk…

And you’re right, it’s just all about me…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1742609029

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ntist-detained

Quote:
A French scientist was denied entry to the US this month after immigration officers at an airport searched his phone and found messages in which he had expressed criticism of the Trump administration, said a French minister.
As Chris said

Quote:
It is because there is a small, but non-zero chance of being messed about with at immigration, for reasons directly connected with Trump and his policies. And the number of stories like this is mounting up on a weekly basis at the moment. I choose not to deal with that possibility.
DHS was bad enough before being given carte blanche by the current Administration…

Gavin78 22-03-2025 00:13
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
I see it that Trump only wanted to be president to shave off the crimes he's committed.

Nobody thought for one minute he would get the job again so they all bad mouthed him. Lots of countries did and the only ones that didn't were the likes of Russia. Now Trump seems to be on a rampage to get all these countries back.

The one country he hasn't bothered with is Russia so there we have it

Damien 22-03-2025 08:47
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36193138)
It seems quite odd to not do something you wanted to do because of who a country elected. The majority of people either stayed on the couch or voted for Kamala. Life is short.
I along with others were planning to go to the World Cup as well but am reconsidering because there are now several examples of immigration messing people around. European citizens were detained for small technicalities or even critical social media posts from Trump. I can hardly say I've not been critical of him, can I?

ianch99 22-03-2025 10:42
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Some more examples on tourists getting locked up at the border:

Weekslong lockups of tourists at U.S. borders spark fears of travelling to America

Quote:
SAN DIEGO — Lennon Tyler and her German fiancé often took road trips to Mexico when he vacationed in the United States since it was only a day’s drive from her home in Las Vegas, one of the perks of their long-distance relationship.

But things went terribly wrong when they drove back from Tijuana last month.

U.S. border agents handcuffed Tyler, a U.S. citizen, and chained her to a bench, while her fiancé, Lucas Sielaff, was accused of violating the rules of his 90-day U.S. tourist permit, the couple said. Authorities later handcuffed and shackled Sielaff and sent him to a crowded U.S. immigration detention centre. He spent 16 days locked up before being allowed to fly home to Germany.

Since U.S. President Donald Trump took office, there have been other incidents of tourists like Sielaff being stopped at U.S. border crossings and held for weeks at U.S. immigration detention facilities before being allowed to fly home at their own expense.

They include another German tourist who was stopped at the Tijuana crossing on Jan. 25. Jessica Brösche spent over six weeks locked up, including over a week in solitary confinement, a friend said.

On the Canadian border, a backpacker from Wales spent nearly three weeks at a detention centre before flying home this week. And a Canadian woman on a work visa detained at the Tijuana border spent 12 days in detention before returning home last weekend.

Sielaff, 25, and the others say it was never made clear why they were taken into custody even after they offered to go home voluntarily.

jfman 22-03-2025 10:57
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
He (Sielaff) literally told them he was a US resident when he wasn't and is stunned immigration officials on the Mexican border got suspicious. :rofl:

Hugh 22-03-2025 11:05
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36193184)
He (Sielaff) literally told them he was a US resident when he wasn't and is stunned immigration officials on the Mexican border got suspicious. :rofl:
Not in the article quoted above…

Quote:
They returned Feb. 18, just 22 days into Sielaff’s 90-day tourist permit.

When they pulled up to the crossing, the U.S. border agent asked Sielaff aggressively, “Where are you going? Where do you live?” Tyler said.

“English is not Lucas' first language and so he said, ‘We’re going to Las Vegas,' and the agent says, ’Oh, we caught you. You live in Las Vegas. You can’t do that,‘” Tyler said.

Sielaff was taken away for more questioning. Tyler said she asked to go with him or if he could get a translator and was told to be quiet, then taken out of her car and handcuffed and chained to a bench. Her dog, recovering from surgery, was left in the car.

After four hours, Tyler was allowed to leave but said she was given no information about her fiancé’s whereabouts.

During questioning, Sielaff said he told authorities he never lived in the U.S. and had no criminal history. He said he was given a full-body search and ordered to hand over his cellphone and belongings. He was put in a holding cell where he slept on a bench for two days before being transferred to the Otay Mesa Detention Center in San Diego.

jfman 22-03-2025 11:11
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
It is how the Guardian have reported it.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...m-us-detention

Quote:
He was arrested at the border point at San Ysidro on 18 February. He had entered the US on a tourist visa and with his girlfriend, Lennon Tyler, had subsequently visited Mexico where they had taken her dog to the vet. According to Tyler, on their return to the US, Sielaff had incorrectly answered a question as to where he lived, due to his poor grasp of English. He had said Las Vegas, where he was staying with Tyler, his fiancee, when he should have said Germany, where he permanently resides, she said.
Quote:
Sielaff returned to Germany last week after spending two weeks in detention, after his entry permit was cancelled at the Mexican border, amid suspicions by the US authorities that he had remained in the US longer than he was allowed.
The nature of their relationship will no doubt have aroused suspicion. Similarly the other sob stories the Guardian report are tourists carrying tattoo equipment creating suspicion they are working.

If there's a lesson it's probably to stay away from Mexico, and don't use the land border. Especially if there's reasonable suspicion you are not, in fact, a tourist.

Hugh 22-03-2025 11:52
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2d4kex0w2ro

Quote:
President Donald Trump has rescinded an executive order targeting a prestigious international law firm after it promised to abandon diversity policies and provide $40m (£31m) worth of free legal work to support White House initiatives.

Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison LLP is a multinational law firm headquartered in New York that has many high-profile clients.

Trump's 14 March order had terminated federal contracts with the firm and suspended security clearances for its lawyers, saying it was undermining the US judicial system.
The firm is now facing blowback from many in the legal community, including a top lawyer for Democrats, even as some lawyers said it had few other options.

Trump has issued similar executive orders against the law firms Perkins Coie and Covington & Burling.

The White House rescinded the order on Thursday after a meeting between Trump and Brad Karp, the chairman of Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Garrison & Wharton.

In a post on Truth Social, the president said the firm had agreed to a series of concessions, including the promise to provide "the equivalent of $40 million in pro bono legal services over the course of President Trump's term to support the Administration's initiatives".

Itshim 22-03-2025 16:31
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
He’s not getting a 3rd term……….that’s it.

---------- Post added at 21:46 ---------- Previous post was at 21:45 ----------



Hope you are right , however local politicians , are not so sure. Yes we know the laws but that won't stop he having a go

1andrew1 22-03-2025 16:48
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36193159)
Who?
Putin. Probably more admiration than being an agent, but the outcomes are not dissimilar.
What this ex-MI6 head of its Russia Desk on Times Radio from I.49 has to say on the matter is interesting. He cites a property bought by a Russian from Trump in Florida at twice the market rate in 2008 when Trump was facing bankruptcy. Trump's son also stated that Russians made up a high proportion of investors in Trump's properties. There was also Trump's construction project in Moscow carried out secretly during the 2016 US elections.
https://youtu.be/f5NWwcgyNZk?si=fwhtfUGDxloJl1PO

Chris 22-03-2025 16:51
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36193199)
He’s not getting a 3rd term……….that’s it.

---------- Post added at 21:46 ---------- Previous post was at 21:45 ----------



Hope you are right , however local politicians , are not so sure. Yes we know the laws but that won't stop he having a go
But it’s not ‘the laws’ it’s the constitution. We’re not used to thinking in those terms because we don’t have a written constitution. Even if he stands for re-election, and even if he wins, and congress certifies the result, the supreme court justice who is responsible for administering the oath of office cannot, and will not, administer it to him in January 2029 because it is expressly forbidden. It isn’t even something that could be done and then challenged in the court later. It is a representative of the Supreme Court who does the actual swearing in.

And as the constitution automatically ends his second term exactly 4 years after it began, he can’t claim to still be the president in the absence of anyone else being sworn in. He just *stops* being president, and that’s it. For anyone to treat him as such afterwards would be a naked political coup which would require military backing. So unless you’re suggesting that’s where the US is heading … well, just accept it, he has 4 years to go and then that’s it.

papa smurf 22-03-2025 16:59
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36193201)
But it’s not ‘the laws’ it’s the constitution. We’re not used to thinking in those terms because we don’t have a written constitution. Even if he stands for re-election, and even if he wins, and congress certifies the result, the supreme court justice who is responsible for administering the oath of office cannot, and will not, administer it to him in January 2029 because it is expressly forbidden. It isn’t even something that could be done and then challenged in the court later. It is a representative of the Supreme Court who does the actual swearing in.

And as the constitution automatically ends his second term exactly 4 years after it began, he can’t claim to still be the president in the absence of anyone else being sworn in. He just *stops* being president, and that’s it. For anyone to treat him as such afterwards would be a naked political coup which would require military backing. So unless you’re suggesting that’s where the US is heading … well, just accept it, he has 4 years to go and then that’s it.

And then becomes Emperor ,I've seen this movie ;)

jfman 22-03-2025 17:30
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Is Trump beyond inventing, or creating, some crisis or other to prevent elections?
Someone has to hold executive power in that eventuality. Trump’s view would be that should be him.

Other countries have suspended their constitutions to extend the rule of a President beyond their initial term. Is there protection against this in the United States? What if that mechanism can’t meet safely?
.

Hugh 22-03-2025 18:37
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36193205)
Is Trump beyond inventing, or creating, some crisis or other to prevent elections?
Someone has to hold executive power in that eventuality. Trump’s view would be that should be him.

Other countries have suspended their constitutions to extend the rule of a President beyond their initial term. Is there protection against this in the United States? What if that mechanism can’t meet safely?
.

I can’t think of a country (in this Century) that has suspended their Constitution to "extend the rule of a President beyond their initial term" - I know of one country where the Constitution explicitly allows the delaying of Elections under Parliamentary-approved Martial Law, which legally extends the term of the Parliament and the Head of State until the end of Martial Law.

Chris 22-03-2025 18:49
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36193205)
Is Trump beyond inventing, or creating, some crisis or other to prevent elections?
Someone has to hold executive power in that eventuality. Trump’s view would be that should be him.

Other countries have suspended their constitutions to extend the rule of a President beyond their initial term. Is there protection against this in the United States? What if that mechanism can’t meet safely?
.
There is no mechanism to suspend the constitution of the United States. If anyone declared the constitution suspended they would, unambiguously, be acting illegally. The president simply does not have that power. Elections must happen when they are supposed to because the constitution - which cannot be suspended - says they must.

The *only* way for him to stay in power would be for him to make a declaration in the face of all of that, and for the entire government apparatus to simply accept it, and for the military to be prepared to back it up. And even if he did so, the federal structure of the United States is such that he just wouldn’t be accepted by all the states as the legitimate president. He would have a civil war on his hands, and the States are not un-armed in their own right.

Given that to this day the vast majority of American kids come up through school swearing allegiance to the flag and the republic, and everyone in congress does, it is hard to see how enough people would accept a president’s attempt to usurp the constitution so easily.

jfman 22-03-2025 18:52
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36193210)
I can’t think of a country (in this Century) that has suspended their Constitution to "extend the rule of a President beyond their initial term" - I know of one country where the Constitution explicitly allows the delaying of Elections under Parliamentary-approved Martial Law, which legally extends the term of the Parliament and the Head of State until the end of Martial Law.
The mechanics elsewhere are less important than the underlying principle and what protections (or lack thereof) might exist in America.

The 20th Amendment implies Trump could continue to act as President so long as Congress agrees should a successor not be selected, a very similar proposition to your case of Parliamentary approved martial law in the absence of elections. (Congress could in theory pick anyone, since the post holder would only act as President and not “be” President. It’s likely implied that this person should be the Speaker since that is the line of succession, but that’s not what the provision states).

Edit: to add, once you hit early January there would be no Speaker, should elections not take place, for the same reason there would be no President elect or VP elect. Two thirds of the Senate would still hold their offices.

Chris 22-03-2025 20:08
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36193212)
The mechanics elsewhere are less important than the underlying principle and what protections (or lack thereof) might exist in America.

The 20th Amendment implies Trump could continue to act as President so long as Congress agrees should a successor not be selected,
Section 3 gives congress the power to nominate an acting president, but it does not give it the right to appoint someone who is not qualified. Again, because there is no provision to suspend the constitution of the United States, whoever occupies the Oval Office must be qualified as per the constitution. So they can’t nominate someone who has served 2 terms any more than they could nominate someone who was not a natural-born US American citizen, because the constitution explicitly prohibits that.

Itshim 22-03-2025 22:13
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
The message given to me is that his team are working on it. To quote ," if putin can , so can he" make of it what you will

Hugh 22-03-2025 23:13
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
So to replicate Putin’s rise to President for life, he will put corrupt oligarchs in charge of Government departments, use the Government to prosecute anyone who opposes him, make himself rich off of running the country, close down/frighten off any media and lawyers who oppose him, ignore judges who disagree with him, and foment hatred against anyone who isn’t like him - can’t see that happening in the USA.

Oh, wait….

Pierre 23-03-2025 08:04
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36193217)
So to replicate Putin’s rise to President for life, he will put corrupt oligarchs in charge of Government departments, use the Government to prosecute anyone who opposes him, make himself rich off of running the country, close down/frighten off any media and lawyers who oppose him, ignore judges who disagree with him, and foment hatred against anyone who isn’t like him - can’t see that happening in the USA.

Oh, wait….
Didn’t work for Biden.

Hugh 23-03-2025 08:42
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Ah, the MAGA equivalent of "your mum!"…

13 of Trump appointees are billionaires, there were none in the Biden Administration.

The Biden Administration didn’t sign Executive Orders banning any lawyers who had been involved in legal cases against the incumbent or his family from doing any Government work.

The Biden administration didn’t to seek sanctions against attorneys or law firms that challenged the administration’s actions in court for the last eight years

The Biden administration didn’t fire any FBI officers or DOJ lawyers who were involved in cases against the incumbent or his family.

The Biden administration didn’t call for the impeachment of Judges who ruled against them

The Biden administration didn’t try to overturn the 14th Amendment

The Biden administration didn’t fire 17 independent Inspector Generals, who provided independent oversight on Government departments

The Biden administration didn’t turn the White House lawn into a car showroom for his mate

But sure, they’re the same…

Pierre 23-03-2025 09:05
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36193217)
he will put corrupt oligarchs in charge of Government departments,
well at least it isn’t a load of unqualified “Diversity hires”

Quote:
use the Government to prosecute anyone who opposes him,
Check

Quote:
make himself rich off of running the country,
Him and his corrupt family

Quote:
close down/frighten off any media and lawyers who oppose him,
He “owned” the media, all of CNN, MSNBC ran cover for him

Quote:
ignore judges who disagree with him,
Pardons his son, after being record many t8mes saying he wouldn’t.

Quote:
foment hatred against anyone who isn’t like him
Call Trump supporters “Garbage”

He was a lovely man and a president “for everyone”

1andrew1 23-03-2025 09:08
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36193224)
Didn’t work for Biden.
It didn't work for Biden as he didn't try it!

Stephen 23-03-2025 09:43
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36193228)
well at least it isn’t a load of unqualified “Diversity hires”


He was a lovely man and a president “for everyone”
Still clinging to the lies of Trump there. Just because someone of different skin colour or ethnic background has a job, it doesnt mean there were hired just because of that. They still had to match the job requirements and ability to perform said role.

For example, narrowed down to three Candidates who all showed they have the ability to do the job, the person best suited will be hired and not just because they were black or gay. You've been utterly misled as to what DEI means. Jobs must be advertised and made visible to as many people as possible and it does not mean they a just just for being in a marginalised group.

Finally that statement is true of Biden.

Pierre 23-03-2025 10:34
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36193230)
Still clinging to the lies of Trump there. Just because someone of different skin colour or ethnic background has a job, it doesnt mean there were hired just because of that. They still had to match the job requirements and ability to perform said role.

For example, narrowed down to three Candidates who all showed they have the ability to do the job, the person best suited will be hired and not just because they were black or gay. You've been utterly misled as to what DEI means. Jobs must be advertised and made visible to as many people as possible and it does not mean they a just just for being in a marginalised group.

Finally that statement is true of Biden.
The Vice President and Supreme Court Judge Ketanji Brown, appointed by Biden at his own admission purely because of their sex and ethnicity.

Throw in Admiral Rachel Levine, Sam Brinton, for comedy value

1andrew1 23-03-2025 10:49
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36193231)
The Vice President and Supreme Court Judge Ketanji Brown, appointed by Biden at his own admission purely because of their sex and ethnicity.

Throw in Admiral Rachel Levine, Sam Brinton, for comedy value
Either Biden was demented and not in charge of things or he was busy making strategic diversity hires and was fully in control. Which is it?

Stephen 23-03-2025 10:52
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36193231)
The Vice President and Supreme Court Judge Ketanji Brown, appointed by Biden at his own admission purely because of their sex and ethnicity.

Throw in Admiral Rachel Levine, Sam Brinton, for comedy value
Trump appointed a female judge last time. I guess that means he made a DEI hire then..:rolleyes:

Pierre 23-03-2025 13:00
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36193233)
Either Biden was demented and not in charge of things or he was busy making strategic diversity hires and was fully in control. Which is it?
Scary that we didn’t know, isn’t it.

---------- Post added at 13:00 ---------- Previous post was at 12:55 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36193234)
Trump appointed a female judge last time. I guess that means he made a DEI hire then..:rolleyes:
Not if it was because she was the best judge that just happened to be a woman.

Biden explicitly picked Brown because she was black, not that she was the best judge that just also happened to be black.


There’s a difference

Damien 23-03-2025 13:29
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Judges are picked because of politics, not because they're the best judges. They have to have reached a high enough point in their careers to be even considered, but beyond that, it's a political decision.

I just googled Jackson and she seems to have already been on one of the highest courts and had previously been approved by the Senate. She was one of the favourites to be selected from the off. Amy Coney Barrett, Trump's pick, was also at the same level.

tweetiepooh 24-03-2025 10:25
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
I'm wondering if/when "Donald" becomes a euphemism or used more colourfully.
I'm just going to the bog for a donald.
Don't buy one of those its donald.
He is having a bit of a donald moment.
The name is already linked to food (McDonald)


Trump won't work the same as the term is used for something beneficial but that term could be merged - Nothing can trump a donald/what can trump a donald/anything can trump a donald.

Russ 24-03-2025 10:33
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
“When”?

People have been saying that for 6 years

1andrew1 24-03-2025 10:34
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36193300)
I'm wondering if/when "Donald" becomes a euphemism or used more colourfully.
I'm just going to the bog for a donald.
Don't buy one of those its donald.
He is having a bit of a donald moment.
The name is already linked to food (McDonald)


Trump won't work the same as the term is used for something beneficial but that term could be merged - Nothing can trump a donald/what can trump a donald/anything can trump a donald.
Well, we already say things are a bit Donald Ducked when they go wrong.
So not too long a stretch to evolve to things are a bit Donald. ;)

Stephen 24-03-2025 10:43
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
You could say going for a Donald Trump - dump:D:angel:

1andrew1 24-03-2025 13:41
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 36193303)
You could say going for a Donald Trump - dump:D:angel:
:D

ianch99 24-03-2025 20:33
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
1 Attachment(s)
This is very disturbing on so many levels:

The Trump Administration Accidentally Texted Me Its War Plans

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1742848210

Not least that it reveals their attitude to Europe:

Quote:
The user identified as Hegseth responded three minutes later: “VP: I fully share your loathing of European free-loading. It’s PATHETIC

Attachment 31350

Chris 24-03-2025 20:58
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
The thing I find so perplexing about their attitude to Europe is that it’s as if none of them has ever studied their own history of the last century. While European states could, and should, have been doing more, the basic imbalance is by design. America has all the guns, which means Europe can’t start any more world wars.

For all their fulminating about European, and particularly UK, posturing on Ukraine, their foreign policy stance on European security is forcing Europe to act alone, and simultaneously weakening America’s ability to do anything about it. It is so unbelievably dim-witted it is hard to comprehend where these people have even come from.

I’ve seen one or two Xitter wits proposing a new interpretive framework called ‘Trumps Razor’, in which the stupidest possible explanation is probably the right one.

TheDaddy 24-03-2025 21:30
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36193330)
I’ve seen one or two Xitter wits proposing a new interpretive framework called ‘Trumps Razor’, in which the stupidest possible explanation is probably the right one.
I've thought this for a while, all this donnie is a Russian asset stuff, putin has stuff on him, like what? The things we already know about him make him a thoroughly unlikable, loathsome individual, what could vlad have on him that's worse than we already know? It makes more sense to me knowing what we do of his characteristics that he's after a Nobel prize, mainly because Obama has got one.

Pierre 24-03-2025 21:37
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Europe has been taking the piss for 30+ years.

When Trump went to Germany, first time around, and correctly stated, that they were spending billions protecting Europe from Russia, But Europe was giving Russia billions in gas and oil purchases funding the very threat America was supposed to be protecting them from.

I think the US should have a very healthy scepticism of Europes capabilities and intentions.

We need to prove we can do it without the US……….then maybe the US may help back us.

We are , Europe generally, a very poor partner to the US.

1andrew1 24-03-2025 22:09
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36193332)
I've thought this for a while, all this donnie is a Russian asset stuff, putin has stuff on him, like what? The things we already know about him make him a thoroughly unlikable, loathsome individual, what could vlad have on him that's worse than we already know? It makes more sense to me knowing what we do of his characteristics that he's after a Nobel prize, mainly because Obama has got one.
Checkout the interview on this post https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=1332

Chris 25-03-2025 07:30
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Trump’s Razor can surely be the only way of understanding how:

- Senior defence and security officials discussed their latest bombing run on the Huthis on an insecure Signal chat group.
- Someone added the Editor-in-Chief of The Atlantic to the chat group, leaving them no possible means of denying it.

The Atlantic, predictably, ran a very long-form expose, with screenshots, in its online edition last night. I will be reading it shortly with a large coffee.

(Edit). Also predictably, the article is out from behind the paywall. Read it and weep:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-plans/682151/

jfman 25-03-2025 07:42
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36193333)
Europe has been taking the piss for 30+ years.

When Trump went to Germany, first time around, and correctly stated, that they were spending billions protecting Europe from Russia, But Europe was giving Russia billions in gas and oil purchases funding the very threat America was supposed to be protecting them from.

I think the US should have a very healthy scepticism of Europes capabilities and intentions.

We need to prove we can do it without the US……….then maybe the US may help back us.

We are , Europe generally, a very poor partner to the US.
Europe can’t afford to have American foreign policy as a noose around its neck and pay US price premiums for gas and technology to support American interests and not ours.

Scaremongering over Chinese involvement in technology and infrastructure, and objecting to buying Russian gas, are about protecting American interests and nobody elses. Both Russia and China are making inroads with soft power in the global south, and America is threatened by that.

If you suggested a mere 18 months ago that America could have kill switches in advanced weapons it sells or queried the independence of the UK nuclear deterrent you’d have been dismissed as a hard left crank. How there’s legitimacy to asking these questions as America proves itself to be an unreliable ally.

papa smurf 25-03-2025 07:47
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
what i find incredible is Trump withdrawing clearance from joe Biden and Hillary due to security concerns and then this bunch of retards broadcast a live military attack :dunce:

Chris 25-03-2025 07:49
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36193352)
If you suggested a mere 18 months ago that America could have kill switches in advanced weapons it sells or queried the independence of the UK nuclear deterrent you’d have been dismissed as a hard left crank. How there’s legitimacy to asking these questions as America proves itself to be an unreliable ally.
I still think the idea of a kill-switch in the Trident missile is fanciful - they are not remote-launched and by their nature their location is unknown, as would be the timing of any launch. Establishing telemetry with a rocket is hard even when two-way comms have been carefully set up prior to launch and are actively maintained throughout flight. Big red buttons with ‘KILL’ on them are movie shorthand, they are not real life.

Damien 25-03-2025 08:28
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36193350)
Trump’s Razor can surely be the only way of understanding how:

- Senior defence and security officials discussed their latest bombing run on the Huthis on an insecure Signal chat group.
- Someone added the Editor-in-Chief of The Atlantic to the chat group, leaving them no possible means of denying it.

The Atlantic, predictably, ran a very long-form expose, with screenshots, in its online edition last night. I will be reading it shortly with a large coffee.

(Edit). Also predictably, the article is out from behind the paywall. Read it and weep:
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-plans/682151/
What I think is also extraordinary is that we can expect little consequences for this.

Hopefully I am wrong. I would think even under Trump this would be a firing offense but you do question if he'll go.

ianch99 25-03-2025 11:12
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36193355)
What I think is also extraordinary is that we can expect little consequences for this.

Hopefully I am wrong. I would think even under Trump this would be a firing offense but you do question if he'll go.
Don't worry, they have clearly stated what will happen :)

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1742901089

Attachment 31351

Hugh 25-03-2025 12:13
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36193365)
Don't worry, they have clearly stated what will happen :)

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1742901089

Attachment 31351
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2025/03/8.gif

---------- Post added at 12:13 ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 ----------

DoGE - Department of Government Efficiency

Social Security Agency, after DoGE go in...

https://wapo.st/4hM5MAn

Quote:
Long waits, waves of calls, web crashes: Social Security is breaking down

A flood of cuts led by Elon Musk has sent the agency into chaos as a new commissioner prepares to take charge.

The Social Security Administration website crashed four times in 10 days this month, blocking millions of retirees and disabled Americans from logging in to their online accounts because the servers were overloaded. In the field, office managers have resorted to answering phones at the front desk as receptionists because so many employees have been pushed out. But the agency no longer has a system to monitor customers’ experience with these services, because that office was eliminated as part of the cost-cutting efforts led by Elon Musk.

And the phones keep ringing. And ringing.

The federal agency that delivers $1.5 trillion a year in earned benefits to 73 million retired workers, their survivors and poor and disabled Americans is engulfed in crisis — further undermining its ability to provide reliable and quick service to vulnerable customers, according to internal documents and more than two dozen current and former agency employees and officials, customers and others who interact with Social Security.

Financial services executive Frank Bisignano is scheduled to face lawmakers Tuesday during a Senate confirmation hearing as President Donald Trump’s pick to become the permanent commissioner. For now, the agency is run by a caretaker leader in his sixth week on the job who has raced to push out more than 12 percent of the staff of 57,000. He has conceded that the agency’s phone service “sucks” and acknowledged that Musk’s U.S. DOGE Service is really in charge, pushing a single-minded mission to find benefits fraud despite vast evidence that the problem is overstated.

The turmoil is leaving many retirees, disabled claimants and legal immigrants who need Social Security cards with less access or shut out of the system altogether, according to those familiar with the problems.

“What’s going on is the destruction of the agency from the inside out, and it’s accelerating,” Sen. Angus King (I-Maine) said in an interview. “I have people approaching me all the time in their 70s and 80s, and they’re beside themselves. They don’t know what’s coming.”
They're setting the building on fire, and use the fact it's on fire to privatise it, and then charge to fix and run it...

jfman 25-03-2025 13:27
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Hopefully it doesn’t inspire Labour over here, any more so than what has already been failed by privatisation.

Hugh 25-03-2025 14:39
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36193355)
What I think is also extraordinary is that we can expect little consequences for this.

Hopefully I am wrong. I would think even under Trump this would be a firing offense but you do question if he'll go.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cg70...88b345cc5#post

Quote:
In fresh comments to NBC News, the president is standing by National Security Advisor Mike Waltz, who allegedly admitted journalist Jeffrey Goldberg into the Signal group chat.

"Michael Waltz has learned a lesson, and he’s a good man," he says.

Trump called it a "glitch" that Goldberg was added, and said a staffer of Waltz is to blame.

Goldberg's presence in the chat had "no impact at all" on the operation, Trump adds.
How very different from just over eight years ago…

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2025/03/9.gif

Pierre 25-03-2025 19:58
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36193368)
Social Security Agency, after DoGE go in...

https://wapo.st/4hM5MAn

pushing a single-minded mission to find benefits fraud despite vast evidence that the problem is overstated.


They're setting the building on fire, and use the fact it's on fire to privatise it, and then charge to fix and run it...
I’m sure they printed the evidence and didn’t just make an unverifiable comment………..

In any event, I’d welcome such an intervention and investigation into U.K. benefits fraud by anyone with the will.

Hugh 25-03-2025 20:59
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36193385)
I’m sure they printed the evidence and didn’t just make an unverifiable comment………..

In any event, I’d welcome such an intervention and investigation into U.K. benefits fraud by anyone with the will.
Oh, the irony...

Musk has been making unverifiable/false statements consistently, but you never seem to question those...

https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.36Y83WL

Quote:
Elon Musk suggested Social Security data shows millions of improbably and impossibly old people collecting benefits, amounting to massive fraud in the retirement program. But the billionaire's claims about payments to dead people lack evidence -- and experts say his figures appear to count past-issued Social Security cards, not how many people are cashing checks.
Quote:
Although Musk did not specify a source for the figures he posted, Wolfers and other experts told AFP they appear to come from the Numident, an internal database of Social Security card holders.

Social Security numbers are usually given to Americans shortly after birth and may also be issued to new immigrants, visiting workers and others.

"The most likely explanation is that he is looking at the number of Social Security numbers, not the number of beneficiaries," University of Illinois professor Jeffrey Brown, who served on the Social Security Advisory Board under former Republican president George W. Bush, told AFP (archived here).

Andrew Biggs, a senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute who was the SSA's principal deputy commissioner under Bush, agreed (archived here).

"Musk confused the existence of a Social Security number with benefits being paid on that number," Biggs told AFP. "They're not the same."

Pierre 25-03-2025 22:01
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36193390)
Oh, the irony...
Oh……..the deflection.

Did they put forward the “vast evidence” for scrutiny or not? Or was it an unverifiable statement?

Your answer?

Hugh 26-03-2025 00:12
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36193395)
Oh……..the deflection.

Did they put forward the “vast evidence” for scrutiny or not? Or was it an unverifiable statement?

Your answer?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/doge...y?id=119564143

Quote:
Concerns that DOGE might mistake legitimate payments as fraudulent was evident earlier this week when Trump declared in his speech to Congress that there were millions of dead people still collecting Social Security checks.

But that isn't accurate.

According to a 2023 report by the SSA inspector general, there are millions of people older than 100 included in a separate "master death file," but "almost none" of them still receive benefits. The agency said fixing the file would cost between $5 million and $10 million.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/musk...y?id=118960821

Quote:
Musk misreads Social Security data, millions of dead people not getting benefits, experts say

Musk has implied 150-year-olds are getting checks but experts say he’s mistaken.
https://wapo.st/4iZPRiP

Quote:
Why DOGE is struggling to find fraud in Social Security

Claims of massive problems by Elon Musk and President Trump are at odds with the agency’s audits and reports.

Elon Musk put a big target on the Social Security Administration in the first weeks of the Trump administration, claiming it is plagued by “immense waste” and promising audits to root out “the extreme levels of fraud.” President Donald Trump said during his joint address to Congress earlier this month that Musk’s U.S. DOGE Service was already “identifying shocking levels of incompetence and probable fraud” at the agency.

But some of the biggest examples of allegedly wasteful spending held up by Musk and DOGE so far have been overblown or inaccurate. Musk’s assertion that tens of millions of dead people over 100 years old are receiving Social Security benefits was so off-base that it had to be tamped down by the agency’s acting head, who had been promoted because of his willingness to cooperate with DOGE. “These individuals are not necessarily receiving benefits,” acting Social Security commissioner Lee Dudek said.
Quote:
But less than 1 percent of Social Security’s payments in recent years were determined to be improper — often the result of an accidental oversight or change in benefit status, according to a report last year by the agency’s inspector general. That works out to about $9 billion a year, and more than two-thirds of the mistaken payments were eventually clawed back. Another agency audit, which looked only at payments to retired workers, survivors and people with disabilities, found fraud was listed as the cause behind just 3 percent of improper benefit payments.

Despite the flood of money flowing through it, Social Security didn’t make a 2024 list by the Government Accountability Office, the legislative branch’s nonpartisan watchdog, detailing the 16 agencies with improper payment rates of at least 10 percent. That report further found that 80 percent of all improper payments were due to just five government programs, including Medicare and Medicaid — but not Social Security.

“The wild claims they are making — I’ve never seen anything like this,” Kathleen Romig, a former analyst and senior adviser at the agency, said of DOGE and Musk.

Social Security is among the most scrutinized and audited agencies in government, with frequent probes by its 500-person Office of Inspector General. It pays outside auditors to examine its books. Congress grills agency officials. Last year, a major focus in congressional hearings led by the GOP wasn’t waste or fraud — it was about Social Security being too aggressive in clawing back accidental benefit overpayments
Quote:
On social media, Musk alleged that more than 20 million Americans over age 100 receive Social Security checks, derisively describing it as “a lot of vampires collecting Social Security.”

But those claims are not backed up by agency data. Officials said they showed a misunderstanding of Social Security’s databases.

The agency has millions of people in its databases who lack recorded dates of death — the result of old computer systems and events that are decades in the past. That doesn’t mean they are getting checks. Social Security auditors in 2023 reported that 98 percent of those without recorded dates of death were not receiving agency benefits and were known to be deceased. Agency officials said it was costlier and riskier to update the records than to do nothing.
https://www.wired.com/story/elon-mus...-old-benefits/

Quote:
Musk, during the Oval Office press conference which was attended by his son, claimed the payments to 150-year-olds was part of the billions, maybe even tens of billions, in corruption and waste that his DOGE effort had already uncovered.

But just like condom shipments to Gaza or payments to Politico, Musk’s claims of Social Security fraud seems to be a gross misrepresentation of what’s actually happening and why.

In the same press conference where he made the remarks about 150-year-olds collecting Social Security benefits, Musk said his DOGE project would be “maximally transparent” with all savings being made posted to its website.

But when the site came online last week, not only was it just a repurposed Twitter feed with terrible security, it also lacked any details in a section dedicated to savings.

At the time, the site’s administrators claimed the savings section would be updated no later than Valentine’s Day. When that deadline came and went without any update, the administrator wrote: “Receipts coming over the weekend!” The page was briefly populated on Saturday before being taken down; at the time of publication on Monday, no receipts were posted.

Feel free to provide evidence of the "widespread fraud and abuse" in the SSA that Musk speaks of…

Pierre 26-03-2025 07:28
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36193399)

No thanks, I just like making you work.

Seems to be a lot of “experts say” or Gov depts marking their own work or “not necessarily” the case.

It looks to me that the reality of the situation is still to be determined.

Damien 26-03-2025 08:20
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Looks like there will be no consequence for the Signal security leak: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8vgr0p8n6o

These people have no standards at all.

TheDaddy 26-03-2025 08:22
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36193399)
[

Feel free to provide evidence of the "widespread fraud and abuse" in the SSA that Musk speaks of…
I saw a piece the other day where Musk was boasting that he'd found people aged between 6 and 10 receiving payments from social security and stopped them, only problem was they were orphans who were legitimately receiving them

1andrew1 26-03-2025 09:09
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36193403)
I saw a piece the other day where Musk was boasting that he'd found people aged between 6 and 10 receiving payments from social security and stopped them, only problem was they were orphans who were legitimately receiving them
A disgrace that those children ever extracted benefits from the state. They should be in the workhouses helping make America great again! :D

---------- Post added at 09:07 ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36193402)
Looks like there will be no consequence for the Signal security leak: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp8vgr0p8n6o

These people have no standards at all.
Loyalty to Trump is their solo standard. Anything else is by the by.

---------- Post added at 09:09 ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36193401)
It looks to me that the reality of the situation is still to be determined.
It may never be determined, but it won't stop Trump and Musk claiming otherwise, and half the US believing them.

Hugh 26-03-2025 09:12
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
And some on here…

ianch99 26-03-2025 11:20
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36193404)
A disgrace that those children ever extracted benefits from the state. They should be in the workhouses helping make America great again! :D
And yet you jest ....

Florida debates lifting some child labor laws to fill jobs vacated by undocumented immigrants

Quote:
The state’s legislature on Tuesday advanced a bill that would loosen child labor laws, allowing children as young as 14 years old to work overnight shifts. If the new law is passed, teenagers would be able to work overnight jobs on school days. They are currently prevented from working earlier than 6:30 am or later than 11 pm per state law.

---------- Post added at 11:20 ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36193399)
You are wasting your time. Objective reasoning & critical thinking have to be abandoned on admission to the cult.

Pierre 26-03-2025 14:00
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36193411)
You are wasting your time. Objective reasoning & critical thinking have to be abandoned on admission to the cult.
Objectivity = swallowing what the Washington Post spouts forth is it?

1andrew1 26-03-2025 14:33
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36193411)
Jeez, you joke about the worst that could happen and find Trump's US is en route to deliver just that.

ianch99 26-03-2025 15:46
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Remember when Trump's DUI hire Secretary of Defence Hegseth said:

Quote:
Nobody was texting war plans
Well .. the Atlantic has revealed the war plan he texted :)

Here Are the Attack Plans That Trump’s Advisers Shared on Signal

Plus more discussion on making Europe pay ...

Pierre 26-03-2025 16:45
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
They're more interesting What's Apps than our politicians get caught out on!

Chris 26-03-2025 17:28
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36193421)
Remember when Trump's DUI hire Secretary of Defence Hegseth said:



Well .. the Atlantic has revealed the war plan he texted :)

Here Are the Attack Plans That Trump’s Advisers Shared on Signal

Plus more discussion on making Europe pay ...
It reads like one of those comedy text message exchanges supposedly between hapless parents and their kids that used to get screenshotted and shared around.

Unbelievable that these total imbeciles have got so close to so much power.

1andrew1 26-03-2025 18:47
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36193424)
It reads like one of those comedy text message exchanges supposedly between hapless parents and their kids that used to get screenshotted and shared around.

Unbelievable that these total imbeciles have got so close to so much power.
Unbelievable that no one is held to account for the mistake of including the journalist and the whole group for using an unsafe platform to discuss upcoming military activity! *

I did initially wonder that because it was so obviously slack practice, it might even be a dead cat to draw attention from something else (a la Dominic Cummings thinking) but it just looks like Tump's de facto incompetence now.

* Yeah but Hillary's emails. :D

Chris 26-03-2025 19:41
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Trump’s Razor is sharp as ever.

Don’t ascribe to 4D chess what you can ascribe to crass stupidity.

1andrew1 26-03-2025 23:38
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36193431)
Trump’s Razor is sharp as ever.

Don’t ascribe to 4D chess what you can ascribe to crass stupidity.
As a rule, favouring cock-up over conspiracy theory works. But this was so appalling that it had me wondering for at least five minutes!

What would happen with a similar scenario in the UK?
Quote:
If a British defence minister was found to have shared details about a live military operation in an unofficial messaging group with colleagues, they would be sacked.

That President Donald Trump has tried to dismiss the revelation that his top defence and security team not only did just that but accidentally included a journalist in the chat will be watched with deepening horror by US allies and growing glee by American enemies.
https://news.sky.com/story/fired-imm...ister-13335742

Update: Trump has now imposed a 25% tariff on imported cars.

Is this the real dead cat and Signalgate the topic they want people to stop talking about? Or as Chris suggests, probably not, and it's just more business-unfriendly chaos!

jfman 27-03-2025 06:07
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Interesting that whoever said "they would be sacked" wouldn't put their name to it. I think they underestimate the British establishment's capability for arsecovering.

Damien 27-03-2025 09:09
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36193440)
Interesting that whoever said "they would be sacked" wouldn't put their name to it. I think they underestimate the British establishment's capability for arsecovering.
Sending confidential military operation plans to a signal group whose controls are so lax that you also end up sending them to a journalist - or anyone without clearance - will get you fired. That isn't something debatable within the UK.

Mr K 27-03-2025 09:11
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36193427)
Unbelievable that no one is held to account for the mistake of including the journalist and the whole group for using an unsafe platform to discuss upcoming military activity! *
Not really unbelievable since the President has got away with many crimes. The standard has been set. If you're on his side, anything goes...
I think we can conclude the USA is a stupidest nation in the world. Bigly. (we're a close second)

papa smurf 27-03-2025 09:17
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36193442)
Not really unbelievable since the President has got away with many crimes. The standard has been set. If you're on his side, anything goes...
I think we can conclude the USA is a stupidest nation in the world. Bigly. (we're a close second)
but if we deported you we'd be 92nd :)

jfman 27-03-2025 09:45
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36193441)
Sending confidential military operation plans to a signal group whose controls are so lax that you also end up sending them to a journalist - or anyone without clearance - will get you fired. That isn't something debatable within the UK.
As a Minister can only be “fired” by the PM surely that’s down to the principles or otherwise of the PM? There’s plenty of stuff that used to be a slam dunk - fiddling your expenses, lying to Parliament, lying by to the reigning Monarch, that are open questions in the UK in the 2020s.

My money would be on someone else taking the fall - whoever set up the group. As I understand it Signal is an approved app for the Department of Defense.

Then again being sacked in disgrace isn’t what it used to be either. An ermine cloak and being resurrected as the UK Ambassador to the USA couldn’t be ruled out.

Pierre 27-03-2025 09:47
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36193439)
As a rule, favouring cock-up over conspiracy theory works. But this was so appalling that it had me wondering for at least five minutes!

What would happen with a similar scenario in the UK?
it happens......

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57624942

Happened under Biden too.

https://news.sky.com/story/ministry-...uracy-12855476

Damien 27-03-2025 12:26
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
The Greenland thing continues. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgwjllld1ro

Quote:
Denmark has welcomed changes to a Greenland trip by US Vice-President JD Vance and his wife Usha, which has been reduced to a visit of just a US space base.

Earlier this week, it was announced that Usha Vance would spend several days in Greenland, visiting the capital Nuuk and attending cultural events like a popular annual dogsled race.
Danish TV also said that US representatives went to several homes in Greenland to ask if the residents would welcome a visit from Usha Vance, but they declined. Along with a business that had previously accepted her visit revoking that invitation when it emerged she would be joined by Mike Waltz.

I am not sure how the US thinks this is going to work. Denmark is against the US taking Greenland, the residents are against the US taking their home. The only way it looks like happening is if they take it by force. The US can do that, but they're unlikely to go that far.

So that's the point in continuing to sabrerattle on it?

One of the more bizarre traits of the Trump administration is their willingness to upset their allies for no good reason other than to upset them. It's a Government of trolls. It's the same as Vance having a pop at the UK over our military. What good did that do them? It made the UK population turn more against America, and they gained nothing from it.

Yes, well done, you've dismissed the efforts and even lives given by the UK in partnership with you and thus upset everyone in the country. Why?

Chris 27-03-2025 15:00
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36193447)
The Greenland thing continues. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgwjllld1ro



Danish TV also said that US representatives went to several homes in Greenland to ask if the residents would welcome a visit from Usha Vance, but they declined. Along with a business that had previously accepted her visit revoking that invitation when it emerged she would be joined by Mike Waltz.

I am not sure how the US thinks this is going to work. Denmark is against the US taking Greenland, the residents are against the US taking their home. The only way it looks like happening is if they take it by force. The US can do that, but they're unlikely to go that far.

So that's the point in continuing to sabrerattle on it?

One of the more bizarre traits of the Trump administration is their willingness to upset their allies for no good reason other than to upset them. It's a Government of trolls. It's the same as Vance having a pop at the UK over our military. What good did that do them? It made the UK population turn more against America, and they gained nothing from it.

Yes, well done, you've dismissed the efforts and even lives given by the UK in partnership with you and thus upset everyone in the country. Why?
Because they live in a social media echo-chamber which pats them on the back every time they pwn teh libs or do something MAGA.

And also because the Trump admin is an unholy alliance of an ageing boomer who, deep down, knows his days of relevance are fast vanishing, and nihilistic Gen-Xers who give him the relevance he craves in return for the keys to the Corvette they were never allowed to drive when they were 18.

Hugh 27-03-2025 15:23
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36193453)
Because they live in a social media echo-chamber which pats them on the back every time they pwn teh libs or do something MAGA.

And also because the Trump admin is an unholy alliance of an ageing boomer who, deep down, knows his days of relevance are fast vanishing, and nihilistic Gen-Xers who give him the relevance he craves in return for the keys to the Corvette they were never allowed to drive when they were 18.
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2025/03/10.gif

1andrew1 28-03-2025 06:52
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36193446)
Bad as those were, they're not really the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. Signalgate involves named individuals at the top of government and security breaching protocol, a breach of security by many individuals not one and real time information placing a mission in jeopardy.

Pierre 28-03-2025 09:24
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36193468)
Bad as those were, they're not really the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. Signalgate involves named individuals at the top of government and security breaching protocol, a breach of security by many individuals not one and real time information placing a mission in jeopardy.
The question is how did a Trump hating journalist "accidentally" get included onto a government signal chat?

1andrew1 28-03-2025 09:33
Re: President Trump 2.0
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36193469)
The question is how did a Trump hating journalist "accidentally" get included onto a government signal chat?
The adjective is wrong but that's one of many questions.


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:39.
Page 14 of 21 « First 410111213 14 15161718 Last »
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
All Posts and Content are © Cable Forum