Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That's not a point, why are you relying on interpretation with a legally binding treaty, you rely on what's written in it not on how someone might interpret it, they saw your mate bozo coming, surprised he didn't come back with a handful of magic beans in exchange for the crown jewels whilst he was at it

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Every document needs interpretation. That’s what courts are there for!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The courts are there as a remedy in the last resort for when things go wrong. Not as an everday part of the process.

---------- Post added at 21:12 ---------- Previous post was at 21:10 ----------

:LOL:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I thought they were also used to give a definitive answer where both parties claimed the 'wording' meant different things :shrug:

Edit: I thought that Brown character had sold all the crown jewels ages ago?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That's not an everyday situation but I've not said they don't do that too.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Back on your boycot everything European stance again? By the way how's it going round Chez Old Boy with nothing European crossing the threshold?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Let's hope BoJo ends his domatism to step up and seize this opportunity. ;)
https://news.sky.com/story/ireland-u...nsion-12331316

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Lets hope he tells the touchup to get stuffed.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Why wouldn't you want this as a long-term solution to the situation? I'm sure other Brexiters like Seph can see the logic in such a deal.

---------- Post added at 23:43 ---------- Previous post was at 23:06 ----------

It's your party's Boris Johnson who warned us all.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a6887596.html

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

and this IS an everyday situation?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I believe it was mentioned a few times that the only good deal was a no deal.

Trying to please everyone gets you nowhere in the end :Yes:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Can you link to where this was mentioned, please?

The one I heard was "no deal was better than a bad deal"…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So pretty happy for the enemy to feed and water you ;).

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Probably depended on who you listened to, which papers you read, the facebook group you belonged to, or even tweeters you followed ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Maybe there are 3 parties (at least) here. The UK (including NI), the EU (including Eire) and Ireland (both NI and Eire) and they all have different agendas and desires.


The UK wants NI as part of the UK with no restrictions between the 2 but controls between UK and EU

The EU has Eire and wants free movement there but controls between UK and EU
The Irish want freedom on the island but some want to be politically part of UK and part want a united Ireland, the latter probably less care about who externally they are joined to than uniting Ireland.


Even when we were part of the EU there was still that tension between groups in Ireland ready to bubble up if something got out of kilter too much away from their aims. And too often it was men of violence who gained from the instability that wanted to keep the violence going. They are still there and ready to restart their respective campaigns.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I am starting to wonder if a Frenchman ran over your dog or something...

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

There's no logic to escape.

BoJo may be many things but he's one step ahead of you in understanding that no-deal was out of the question. That would breach the Good Friday Agreement. No ifs, buts or maybes. Fail to understand that and understand that you'll fail. ;)

So that left Boris with three choices and he went for No. 2:
1. Rejoin the EU
2. Sign up to a deal now and hope to sort out the practicalities later
3. Get an extension and use that time wisely to get all your ducks in a row eg veterinary equivalence, recruitment of customs officers.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So when you post about the EU being the enemy, you don't really mean it and are just exaggerating for dramatic effect. Tell me, how many of your other posts are also just playing up to the big boys in the hope of making you look (or just feel) good, or are you just one of the sheeple that can't think for themselves and find it easier to be lead by what they read in the Telegraph or on their MP's comedy blog?

If nothing else you've confirmed that you're one of those do as I say not as I do kind of people, must be something they put in the water in your neck of the woods what with Old Boys short lived boycott Europe battle cry :rolleyes:.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

French milkman. ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not sure why you've forgotten that no-deal was never an option. Nothing's altered on that front for the reasons stated. Playing fantasy politics is not my cup of tea so I prefer that we look at the actual scenarios and not those you may have dreamed up.

If I couldn't recommend him to re-join then I would recommend an extension so that we got a better deal and could spend the time wisely getting veterinary equivalence, hiring customs officers etc.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You're avoiding the obvious. No deal was never an option. So if you're devising a hypothetical situation with the only genuine option being to sign a deal then you've answered your own question.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No Deal was always an option . . . the trouble is, nobody had the guts to use it.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Back is December, you were saying that the EU blinked due to the threat of no deal from the UK;

So did the EU blink and sign up to a bad deal under threat of no deal, or did the UK? You seemed happy at the time of signing

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It was an Irishman in a Renault... ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That was because they understood it wasn't a viable option and just used the threat as a negotiating ploy, which anyone could see through.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Your opinion, and welcome to it :p:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Indeed - as jolly as a sandboy, as Rees-Mogg would say. ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So, the UK government were telling porkies and/or soft ?

---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 ----------

As you continue to choose to bandy about the phrase 'enemy' Could you not consider that the phrase should be directed at the people who signed the deal from the UK side ? are they not an enemy to their country for their failure to deliver?

The no extension argument holds no water, as an extension was available however instead of seeing it as was (a viable option) we ignored it and continued to play brinkmanship.

---------- Post added at 12:46 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------

I can't find any credible support evidence saying that no deal was an option? There's plenty suggesting it wasn't, including from cabinet ministers at the time of May's government.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Search on here, I'm sure you'll find a few that wanted it.

Alternatively, stick to the Govt speel . . you know, the Govt you call liars ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Exactly. :clap::clap::clap:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Andrew doing the seal impression again, throw him a (french) fish :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Nailed it.

Our negotiating strategy was more like a fish out of the water than Britain out of the EU.

As our fishermen learnt to their cost, it ended up being less fish out of the water as well. ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Better to do a seal impression than be a sea lion… :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Boris at fault for this, May at fault for that. We either have multiple inept Tory leaders. or, a poisoned chalice which regardless of who is leader will be unable to be delivered in the manner promised.

Or, both

---------- Post added at 13:09 ---------- Previous post was at 13:05 ----------

Sephi, I do indeed see you slagging of Boris for this. However, my point stands, this didn't have to be, there was an extension available but we chose not to use it, because 'Get Brexit Done'

Automated customs procedures are a long long way off, (UK government IT will ensure that)

Equivalence ? maybe, but then, we don't need the EU's help do we?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The EU was never going to bend on this, extension or no extension. The EU would have used the extra time to wear us down by any means possible.

An extension was never a viable proposition for anyone wanting the will of the people implemented.

But you know that.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

How would an extension have got us a worse deal than we have at the moment? :confused:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

They're still bitter about being defeated.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We'll never know for sure as an extension did not occur, we're in effect talking about a schrodingers extension. So, it may or may not have been an improvement on the current situation.

On the subject of predictions, how's your one in the Covid thread going? The one where you 'expect Boris to open up as planned' ?

---------- Post added at 14:28 ---------- Previous post was at 14:25 ----------


No, personally I'm just laughing at you collectively for believing it.

'No deal is better than a bad deal'
'We aren't afraid to go no deal'
'Oven baked deal'

I'm not sure if it's laughter or pity tbh

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

oh . . well where did that come from then? Silly boy :p:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That contribution (we're still paying the EU, btw) would have been cancelled out by no red tape and no customs on the payroll and we stood a chance of a better deal. You could argue it was a chance of 1% or a chance of 100%.

By not giving ourselves the chance, we condemned ourselves to a 100% chance of a bad deal which just satisfied box-tickers and not business.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

:rofl: :drunk: :rofl: :LOL: :D :p:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'm hoping it will be better than the EU one which promised that we would all be pleasantly surprised. I guess you could argue it was 50% correct as we were surprised by it, but not pleasantly! ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

What's happened to him, he's gone very quiet, probably counting the cash he's made out of brexit betting against the pound, his chums have gone quiet to, you can't normally shut forage and francois up but their silence is deafening at the moment

Yeah he did say credible though :)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Nigel Farage was a guest on GB news last night

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

i think he was talking about BLM ,i was a bit worse for beer so it's a bit fuzzy.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No sympathy at all for the construction industry, screwed their own and now paying for it.

Don't ask for a link as a refusal often offends :p:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It's bs anyway, they hired the Polish because they were cheap, no other reason they're not better or harder workers they're just cheaper

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So as most of us thought, you're just exaggerating for dramatic effect.

There were plenty of us saying Borris and his ilk are all slimeballs so everyone who voted for them and now are unhappy with the bucket of shit they've left us with have nobody to blame but themselves.

All those quotes from the telegraph I must have missed where you say The Telegraph are quoting me as saying/thinking..., and I remember the times you used to appear to hang on every word your MP said but to be fair you do seem to have stopped that recently so maybe you've seen through him. If I was trying to insult you, I'd just insult you. You'll know when it happens because the swear filter will have a funny turn ;). And before you accuse me of being a lefty remained, just think at least one of those descriptions would be wrong :shocked:.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

An extension would not have brought us any concessions from the EU. All it would have brought us would have been more grief and mischief making from remainers who wanted to overturn a democratic decision.

You know that, Andrew, so why ask the question?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

This is what I think:
Slowly but surely, Seph is waking up to the limitations of the deal that he had previously been content with. You'll soon catch up and I'm sure you'll be on the same page as me if you keep an open mind.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Purely out if interest, what are your current hopes Andrew?

Given what is done is done, it is extremely unlikely In the next decade, even the next 30 years that a decision on returning would even be entertained let alone ever happen.

Is it your hope that the U.K. fails? Because that won’t happen, at the worst case there may be the odd issue over the odd thing, but the U.K. will continue to be just fine some things may be better and some may be worse.

If you spend the next 30+ years hoping for the worst, that’ll be a very sad existence.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I've always said that I don't see the UK rejoining anytime soon. Brexit is like a slow puncture, the country will underperform economically compared to how it could have done and ditto its global political influence will be less. There's certainly evidence for the former in terms of the highly paid City jobs that have left London. No one's pretending that we'll become poor - just not as rich as we could have been. That wealth translates into lower taxes or more investment in public services like hospitals and police.

What will happen is the country will gradually return to a closer relationship with the EU. The economics of trade make this inevitable. Eventually, it will tip over into full membership.

The tragedy of Brexit is the opportunity cost as it distracts from the key issues that the country faces - economic disparity between the regions of the UK, low productivity and facing up to the global challenge of global warming.

Fool yourself not, discussions with the EU will continue as we've seen with Northern Ireland and fishing. There won't be an end point when Brexit is "done".

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Will you continue to, seemingly, take pleasure in gloating at supposed failures or lack of success in the UK’s journey? Opposingly, if in the next several years Brexit is a resounding success for the UK, and the EU projects falters, where does that leave you?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'll continue to hold the government of the day to account. I take no pleasure in seeing the country's reputation tarnished. But I'm not going to censor myself by not posting any Brexit stories.

If Brexit is a great success and the EU falters then I will obviously be happy that it's been a great success. I've never been rabidly pro-EU in the same way that many on here have been rabidly anti-EU. It's just that on the balance of evidence, I felt the UK was better off in than out.

As you are someone who hails from Liverpool, I'm surprised you've not noticed how EU funding and the European City of Culture has helped turn that city around. Yes, the UK was a net contributor but we've seen how the recent Conservative Governments favours funding their own areas so it is unlikely this funding would have made its way to Liverpool - over 80% went to Conservative towns.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandp...he-towns-fund/
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...-610m-24269389

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57478412

I'm dubious that Welsh and English lamb producers will be able to compete.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That depends on customers. If we want to keep nice Welsh (and English) hill lamb we will buy it. NZ lamb fills a nice gap in the seasons so that works. But there is difference in taste even within the UK between low and high land lamb.
We can do the same with beef from Oz, pork from US and so on. If we don't buy it retailers won't sell it.
But will the customers do what helps local farmers or just "enjoy" cheaper bulk product brought in?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Based on?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I love a bit of Kangaroo.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://ahdb.org.uk/news/uk-beef-sel...acts-of-brexit

So we have to import as we export so much?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/farmin...-40299209.html

So Ireland (in the EU) is very dependent on the UK market. So that's why they are so against a closed border?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think the main reason that the UK and Republic of Ireland are against a border on the island of Ireland is political. Trade is important but it's not the primary reason.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Lidl used to do kangaroo steaks now and then and very good they were. Some people protested about it and they stopped.

Anything that makes lamb a bit cheaper has my vote. It's stupidly expensive.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Or take over it, i'd rather have beef from a friend than the enemy.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Something I mentioned last week ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Only a complete arse would regard the Irish as "the enemy".

I served with people from both sides of the Border, 10s of thousands of Irish fought with us in WW2, and thousands died fighting for us in WW2.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No one's on my "shit list" - getting overly emotional over these thing only makes oneself bitter, and no one else really cares...

;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

©Carth2021

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

His quote did describe himself though so not total tripe.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The Australians have admitted this themselves, and we didn’t get that much from them pre-EEC.

Anyway, even if they do increase our imports from Down Under, we can simply import less from Ireland to compensate if needs be, as has already been pointed out.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We need to wind back our food trade with the EU as new trade deals come into force, I totally agree with you on ireland.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Tariffs have been dropped on Beef/Lamb imports already. I'm sure there's some very happy farmers this morning.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Beef farmers in Ireland punch above their weight politically in that country so that's something to watch for the future.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It’s a two-way street. More imports. More exports.

Instead of expecting everything to remain the same, which nothing does for long, the farmers need to be looking for new markets.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The price of lamb has been horrendous for years because of lack of competition, and what has happened to mutton :shrug:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Yes, in fact the Protocol may have unforeseen downsides for the EU if they continue not to make it work in real world. I do think we need to start thinking about reducing imports from the EU and increasing them with more friendly countries. For example, fewer German cars, more Japanese cars, etc.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Most people have no clue where their cars are made. Many BMWs are made in the US and South Africa, for example. They key is getting UK battery production sorted.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I find that hard to believe as i know for a fact that both those countries insist on the fitting of working indicators, the BMW's sold in the uk don't appear to have them;)