Re: Coronavirus
 

I have a friend who is eighty next month, and he is adamant he's not going to have it, he is an anti vaxer who only believes in natural medicines, he's doing alright for his age.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Chances are he was vaccinated against all the really nasty stuff before he was old enough to encounter all the anti-vax bolleaux on the internet. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

What are "natural medicines’, please?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Things that nature provides, like plant derived medicines not synthetic copies.
I'm no expert on natural remedies so not the best person to explain it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Thank you.

I wonder, if he has an major operation, he uses a "natural" general anaesthetic? ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

like something poppy based, or valerian maybe

Re: Coronavirus
 

It really hasn't been rushed. The risks taken by the vaccine developers are largely financial. Normally drug companies would perform each stage of testing and analyse to make a decision on whether to move forward. That decision is both technical and financial - does the drug work and is it worth our while investing going to the next step?

In this case, during Phase I (safety) trials, Phase II and Phase III were already being planned. Normally, there would be a pause between each step to decide if it's worth going ahead. Instead, once the safety tests were completed, volunteers were already lined up for stages II and III. The gap between II and III is usually the big one as there will be huge investments in to manufacturing capacity. By huge, we're talking 10-100+ million quid here with months of work. The drug companies ran all of these steps overlapping each other at a significant financial risk to themselves if the vaccines failed at any step during the trials. Even now, the manufacturers are producing vaccines and storing them until they are approved. If approval doesn't go through or (more likely) changes are needed to be made, all that drug will need to be destroyed at a huge cost.

The total cost to bring a drug to market is estimated at $1-2 billion

With vaccines, the return on investment is rubbish as each patient will only have one or two doses of a vaccine through their lifetime with a few exceptions (flu because it changes every year and tetanus because it's a rubbish vaccine) Not only do patients not have many doses but vaccines prevent diseases that big pharma would like to treat with more drugs! The manufacturers try and bump up the price of vaccines to recoup costs but most health authorities fight back hard. Even a new vaccine like HPV is still pretty cheap and around £50 per dose. Because of this, pharma companies are very risk averse financially as the margins are terrible.

I am blown away by how quickly we have got to where we are to be honest. The scientists involved have done a great job here

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Obvious to who :confused: Please do explain it to those of us how do not find it obvious at all.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ignore the headline. The article Is really about Nadhim Zahawi, who is responsible for the rollout of a vaccine and his thoughts on how people/venues could manage their need to prove/know who has been vaccinated.
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/ne...MsGptFIngmjB2E

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well only my dad eats it, so I'm going to see if one of the supermarkets sell a small frozen turkey joint.

Re: Coronavirus
 

:tu:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Most ops under general anaesthetic use Propofol - Propofol is not a ‘natural medicine’; in fact, there can be negative interactions* between some ‘natural medicines’ and Propofol (and Fentanyl, another widely used general anaesthetic).

This is why I was asking.

https://www.sps.nhs.uk/wp-content/up...date-2017.docx

*one of the people I meet dog walking in the morning is an anaesthesiologist, and she had mentioned this...

Re: Coronavirus
 

And a good job there was no one around to tell Jenner not to experiment on James Phipps, a fairly healthy eight-year-old boy. Mind, it was over 200 years ago.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think i'll let others try it out first to see if anything negative happens before making a decision myself.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think the government may go down the route of asking TV personalities, maybe even football stars, if they'd be willing to accept the vaccination of course, this may well encourage those who have doubts about the vaccine to go ahead and get it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes, I believe that's the plan. I don't need any more convincing by influencers. Inject me up and then got me on my summer hols!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Oh yes, that's my thoughts too.:)

Re: Coronavirus
 

MP's should go down the rout of getting their own family's vaccinated first just to show how safe it is.

---------- Post added at 19:17 ---------- Previous post was at 19:16 ----------

Gets my vote:)

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Government's new regional tier restrictions pass by 291 votes to 78 in Parliament this evening.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-55142152

Re: Coronavirus
 

56 Tory MPs rebelled against it's own government.

Drama though, during the parliamentary vote, you had the Prime Minister of the day, begging Tory MPs to vote with the government.

I really don't understand his obsession with the tiered system, it did not work last time, they won't post evidence and reasoning for the tiers this time round.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Personally l prefer a more localised system as the tiered system treats some places unfairly.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just had the vaccine and feeling fit fit fit!

Re: Coronavirus
 

But that’s the ‘before’ picture... :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Oops, my post should have said "Russ just had the vaccine and is feeling fit fit fit!" :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Here’s the ‘after’ picture... :D

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...9&d=1606852907

Re: Coronavirus
 

Looking on the BBC site, Watford, Northampton, Milton Keynes are all T2 with higher figures than my area.

Luton is double our count, yet they are T2, we are T3, and they wonder why people are starting to resent it.

Funny how they were happy to shove just our area up to T2 a few weeks ago, but now suddenly they cant go the other way.

Even MPs are slowly realising this now ;

Re: Coronavirus
 

Indeed. Vaccinations can and do go wrong, so the Government set up a vaccine damage scheme in 1979.

Any disability caused must be severe and it can affect other benefits that the person is entitled to.

So, the manufacturers may not be able to be sued because they've been given limited liability, you won't get the £120,000 lump sum if your resultant disability is not deemed to be severe or you don't meet any other conditions and, even if you do, it is very likely to be given in one hand and taken away with another.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I do not understand why you persist in pressing the possibility of something occurring, while flatly ignoring all discussion of the *likelihood* of it occurring.

Is there any chance of you moving away from scaremongering and onto intelligent debate about the subject?

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm having to shield as i'm extremely vulnerable to the effects of the coronavirus, so a safe and effective vaccine would allow me to leave the house i've been effectively imprisoned in since last March.

I'm neither pro nor against the vaccines, but I need to be sure that they are safe before having one. I am severely disabled as it is, so don't want anything that could potentially make this worse. If anything should happen, I may not be able to sue the manufacturer and may not be able to claim anything from the Government to help with the extra costs of worsened disability. Then there is the human cost and this scares me.

Most vaccines are fine, but this is the Government list of vaccines that were thought to be ok, but turned out to be problematic:

diphtheria
haemophilus influenzae type B (HIB)
human papillomavirus
influenza, except for influenza caused by a pandemic influenza virus
measles
meningococcal group B (meningitis B)
meningococcal group C (meningitis C)
meningococcal group W (meningitis W)
mumps
pandemic influenza A (H1N1) 2009 (swine flu) - up to 31 August 2010
pertussis (whooping cough)
pneumococcal infection
poliomyelitis
rotavirus
rubella (German measles)
smallpox - up to 1 August 1971
tetanus
tuberculosis (TB)

Re: Coronavirus
 

"problematic" how exactly ?

A few of those are routinely given to large numbers of people, I dont see any large scale problems.

Have just copy pasted a list from some antivax site ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

This is the Government list of vaccines that have caused some people to become severaly disabled. I've never been on an antivax site:

https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment/eligibility

Maybe some of these are fine with some people, but not with others??

The covid vaccine might be the same, nobody know one way or the other yet. This is one of the problems with my strategy of waiting until others, who are prepared to have it first, have had it and waiting to see what happens before I make a decision as to whether to have it or not. It could take some time for any negative effects to show themselves, but how long do I remain shielding to see what happens, 6 months, years?? Is it better to take the risk and at least have the chance of having a more normal life for the remaing time that I have left? I really don't know.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good news as the UK Covid Pfizer vaccine has been approved for use from next week.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55145696

Re: Coronavirus
 

The frequency of severe side effects from vaccination are extremely rare to the point of statistically being very difficult to be confident that there is a systemic issue with the vaccine. Vaccines, like all drugs are continuously monitored for safety and efficacy throughout their life though schemes like the yellow card scheme from the MHRA.

The vaccine payment scheme was set up to cover for these extremely rare events. There is very little proof needed to show that is was specifically a vaccine that caused the issue.

In the end it's all about risk - how much risk is enough? What level of risk from the vaccine is acceptable here - for example, if the virus kills 1% of those infected but the vaccine kills 0.000000001%, is the risk acceptable?

I will be taking the vaccine to protect myself, my family and for the good of society in general.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

I want to see plenty of people in the public eye, especially all MP's and their families, plus a few million others having the jab before I will even consider it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I understand your concerns, but since 1978 (to 2017) there have been 936 successful claims, or roughly 23 per year.

To put that into perspective, more people drown in a bathtub each year (29), and over six times as many cyclists are killed in traffic accidents each year.

https://fullfact.org/online/vaccine-damage-fund/

Re: Coronavirus
 

The MHRA would not approve it they did not think it was very safe and effective.

They are one of the top Regulatory Agencys in the world and have very strict protocols before approving anything.

Re: Coronavirus
 

And if all the MPs and their families got the vaccine first, there would be an outcry over their queue jumping. :shrug:

---------- Post added at 09:39 ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 ----------

I don't know the nature of your disabilities, however if you have any reduced organ function at all, especially cardiovascular or respiratory, then based on the evidence so far you are vastly more likely to get seriously ill (or killed) by coronavirus than by any vaccine. You can't shield forever; sooner or later you're going to come into contact with someone who has been infected, and possibly someone who is still infectious.

I can appreciate how the way your life has turned out has made you risk averse here, and this is a decision you have to take seriously, however what it all comes down to is comparing likelihood of certain events occurring. You should discuss this with your GP and whoever takes the lead in providing care for you, however I'll be very surprised if their advice is any different.

Re: Coronavirus
 

TBQH It's a queue I'm quite happy to see them jump.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Plus, can we just say yay to science!! :cleader:

Re: Coronavirus
 

They are also no doubt under extreme political pressure to approve it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There is still a question on if vaccinated people are still infective even if they themselves are protected. It's likely to be a fair while until things return to "normal" with regard to movement and such. Can you still "catch" Covid, spread it around before your enhanced immune system kills it off?

Hopefully once the more vulnerable are vaccinated things can get going again with less chance of a spike in hospital cases. Lots of people wanting hugs, my mum included.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That is your opinion heero but the huge consequences of approving a vaccine which would then go on to have significant side effects on the general public means they do not take these decisions lightly in the first place.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Woke up to an email this morning cancelling our booking at the Cleveland Tontine for our annual Christmas afternoon tea. (They're in tier 2, we're in tier 3) Whilst not entirely unexpected, It's a disappointment for us, and more income lost to the hospitality sector.

Hopefully we'll be moved down to tier 2 in 14 days time and we may be able to rebook.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Health Secretary Matt Hancock vows to get Covid vaccine live on TV with Piers Morgan

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/...-vows-23101825

Piers told Mr Hancock he was keen to get the vaccine administered live on air on the show, as a way to convince those concerned about its safety.

Mr Hancock replied that he would happily sit down next to Piers and get the vaccine at the same time.


Mr Hancock replied: "I'll take it with you Piers, you have to take leadership in these these times.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Bring on the tin foil hat brigade 'How do we know it was the vaccine? It was more than likely a vitamin shot!'

Re: Coronavirus
 

It hasn't happened yet.

But i see where you're coming from.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I had no doubt ls about the vaccines until Prattcock opened his mouth. He has this effect on people. Some of us are still waiting for our promised flu jab...

Her Majesty and Prince Philly should get it first and we can await results. Will it drive them bonkers? Will we notice ? ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Talk on sky news this morning was the oldies will have to wait until the NHS staff have been vaccinated first.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A thought on the deployment of the vaccine.

It appears to be that it's going to be deployed to the most vulnerable first, I wonder if it should be deployed on a geographic basis to those areas hit hardest first.

A high risk person in Cornwall or the Isle of Wight has a lower chance of catching the virus than most others in the U.K. yet they appear to be deemed to get the vaccine first before a medium risk person in say Bradford,Leeds, Hull etc.

Re: Coronavirus
 

This was the list they published in September and from what l hear that is the list they will use.


https://www.gov.uk/government/public...19-vaccination

Re: Coronavirus
 

A journo asked pretty much the same thing. answer: it doesn't matter what tier you're in the vulnerable will receive the vaccine first.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The list will be announced later today.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just been displayed briefly on Sky News

---------- Post added at 11:00 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------

I wonder how this plays out for the travel industry? In a not to impossible scenario many airlines/holiday companies will want proof of vaccination as a condition of sale/carriage. If the mass population does not receive the vaccine until mid-late next year then it piles on the pressure for an industry already struggling

Re: Coronavirus
 

Here you go.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1606906857

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yep, that's the one that was shown on sky. Well found

EDIT: Whilst the risk of mortality increases with age as stated it's now well known there's a multitude of factors including economic & race that leads to an increased risk of mortality. Using just age is wrong.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Full document for that is published now

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-december-2020

Re: Coronavirus
 

Looks like there's a good few million in the queue ahead of me and the OH. We should know by then if there are undetected side sffects or metabolic changes.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...3&d=1606908103

:D

Attachment 28743

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yay!

---------- Post added at 12:05 ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 ----------

We booked ours through the NHS Access App - will be getting it on the 10th December (I have to wait 7 days after my 2nd vaccine trial injection).

Re: Coronavirus
 

I really hope there's some kind of certification once vaccinated. You can be almost certain that this will be needed for travel and work in some places. I have to carry certification for Hepatitis vaccination status to visit some customers in the course of my work for example.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I really hope their isn’t. Just how Orwellian do you like your future “society”

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just like a visa, then?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Can vegans talk it?


IIRC vaccines use chicken eggs to grow it.


Plus all those idiots who say it for a chip to track us, yet they walk around with a mobile phone in their pocket, and some say even if you turn it off it is still on in the background and that is they way "agencies" turn it back on.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Veganism is just a made up fad, they can eat the same stuff as normal people they just choose not to.
In regard to corona virus it's not bothered by your diet.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes vegans can talk i believe.

The covid vaccines don't use eggs.

Each to their own whether its what they eat, or choose to have a vaccine.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There's an appetite for it - don't forget the country narrowly voted to end freedom of movement within Europe.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The vaccines have all gone through non-human animal trials as far as I know which would rule them out from being vegan - it's not just about how they're made.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's still nearly a month after the first injection before full immunity.
Link

Re: Coronavirus
 

Given how this government have already played fast and loose with curtailing public freedoms......................who knows.

Already mooted, later denied, but mooted anyway.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/13...y-passport-ont

And not just him, others have suggested it

https://www.cityam.com/anti-vaxxers-...enior-tory-mp/

So I’ll take Gove’s denial of such things the same way I always take it when a politician denies something......................

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good to have you back on the side of healthy scepticism towards the Government mouthpieces, Pierre.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m a libertarian JF, and have been appalled at the way the police have conducted themselves at times. I don’t have to cite examples because the inter-web is awash with videos of such.

And the “emergency” legislation that was put in through without any parliamentary oversight is what has fuelled it, along with other poor legislation.

I saw one video where the police were questioning one individual because he had a car sticker that said “Covid is fake”. Citing a public order offence, or similar, as it could cause offence/distress . If we’re going down that road, we’re all done for...........

Re: Coronavirus
 

Seems like sensible “profiling” by police. High likelihood of finding someone not mentally fit to drive, under the influence of alcohol/drugs or who simply doesn’t like authority - perhaps driving untaxed or without insurance.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The winner of daftest post of the day. :)

oh wait .... you actually believe what you just posted :erm:

---------- Post added at 00:23 ---------- Previous post was at 00:15 ----------

That wont worry them, they are a very tough and strict body.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The police use similar logic elsewhere. :)

And having attended a police road stop once, along with other authorities, it’s amazing how many chance offences or outstanding warrants you can find.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Hey, some of us will need certification for our work. I already need hepatitis vaccination certification to visit some customers who are protecting their business and employees.

I would not be surprised if COVID vaccination certification is needed as a condition of entry to some countries in the future or, to turn it around, 'how do we stop dirty foreigners coming over here who might be infected?'.

---------- Post added at 09:52 ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 ----------

For those who are interested, here are the guidelines for COVID vaccination as published in the NHS 'Green Book - Immunisation against infectious disease' handbook - https://assets.publishing.service.go...ne_supply_.pdf

It lists the priority list, what the clinical risk groups are, contraindications, side effects, etc.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Thanks for the link - very informative

Re: Coronavirus
 

Chip/trace - not likely needle too fine to do that covertly. Used for some other purpose - possible but not likely.
The PM has already said they don't plan to have CV Visas. How would you prove you have been vaccinated? Don't carry a phone all the time or lost it or stolen or broken?
The plan as detailed makes things simple, if you try to add race into it that gets really complex and not likely to help.

Age is easy to work on but race/economics? You could end up with hundreds of tiers based on age, health, race, deprivation. On the last where do you put the divisions.

With race it's been mooted that the death rates are higher because many work in front line jobs (health care for example), well they are covered in the plan.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Anyone thinking this vaccine is a highway back to normal needs a reality check.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Never did - we’ll all have to adapt to a new normal.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They have been saying for months now that *if* a vaccine rollout began by the end of this year it would be Easter before we would see significant loosening of restrictions. There's nothing new here, just some people getting over excited.

Even after everyone is vaccinated we will need to see the long term population-wide data before we understand how well the various vaccines prevent transmission and how long they provide protection at all. And after that we will have to decide what we're going to do about people returning from countries whose vaccine protection programmes are less effective than we hope ours will be. SARS-CoV-2 is going to be with the human race forever and guarding against its worst effects will simply become an aspect of public health policy.

Re: Coronavirus
 

if the 'new normal' is keeping a greater social distance from each other, then that's all for the good imho ;) Goodbye team hugs (stupid bleeding managers..)

Not sure how Northern Trains will cope with social distancing...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Pacers have gone, now...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes we've now got an upgrade to the trains Scotland don't want any longer... Progress I guess....

Re: Coronavirus
 

The biggest trouble is the minority have a bigger say than the majority.

What we need to reduce the risk is to only allow people who don't wear masks to enter at certain hours, like they did at the beginning for NHS and elderly etc.

But no, these people say no you stay at home and stop bulling me. (which they have on FB.

As I'm shielding my dad who has left the house 6 times since March, 3 to see his wife (my mum) 1 her funeral, 1 flu jab and 1 in the summer for a BBQ at my sisters when we were allowed and followed the rues at the time, I'm glad not to be at work as some of the people I worked with I would trust to watch paint dry.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I wonder if even this will make the EU reconsider their ridiculous 'Freedom of movement' ideology. It's a different world now as the vaccines aren't 100% effective and we don't yet know how long they will be effective for.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don't think any vaccines are 100% effective.

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1607021392

Quarantine rules to be relaxed for business travellers https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55162318

"Following the science"??

Re: Coronavirus
 

Despite the constant media and antisocial site mega hype, its really not.
The main difference is/was that we had no immunity to CV, and no vaccine either.

Once we have a vaccine fully deployed there will be no reason for any special measures.
It becomes exactly the same as the many many other "killer" viruses out there, which we dont (and never have) needed masks/distancing/lockdowns for.

In fact, the Flu will most likely re-take its top spot as the main 'killer' virus again, along with AIDS, TB and even Measles.

You will probably just have an annual/whatever CV jab, like we do Flu.

---------- Post added at 19:16 ---------- Previous post was at 19:14 ----------

Being practical (for once) ?
It helps if the economy actually survives.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It will be interesting to see if other countries take more care about who they let in and what happens to those that don't.

Been on the news that we're importing other vaccines. Maybe It's too late to cancel what's already been ordered or maybe it's to hasten our immunisation programme??

I wonder if people will get a choice as to which one to have?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Freedom of movement has nothing to do with the virus spreading around. Tourists can go on holiday to EU and non EU countries regardless. When the virus was identified there could have been merit in closing borders however that doesn’t justify permanently doing so.

We will need plenty anyway. Advantages in some over others re: storage. It’s also unclear how frequently they may be required and if that varies. Worth hedging bets for now.

I doubt it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Come again?

Re: Coronavirus
 

“Freedom of movement” as in the EU legal framework (to which Richard refers above) that allows people to live and work in other Member States. Which is why the full quote continues as follows:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Oh I see, the Freedom of movement within the EU was not an issue, but the freedom of movement within the UK, definitely an issue........ got it thanks.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not quite sure how you’ve arrived at that leap.

Can only suspect you are attempting to throw up a straw man conflating “freedom of movement” (the EU principle allowing people to live and work in other Member States) and the principle of regional lockdowns restricting travel between local authorities.

Those are not the same thing. Unless you’ve got evidence that significant numbers of infections (and subsequent chains of transmission) started from people who were not travelling for tourism purposes and/or would be denied tourist visas.

As I say closing borders (and at a international or local levels, inside and outside the EU) could have had merits at the start of the outbreak but that’s substantially different from Richard’s statement.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The imported vaccines have now arrived and are being kept in a secret location, before being distributed to hospitals.

Wonder why the secrecy? Perhaps they're afraid that people will storm the building to get a shot in first, or they fear that anti vaccine groups will destroy them??

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...e-day-12150371
More deaths than 9/11 in one day, and its happening at about this rate every day.

Still Trump didn't have anything to say about it. Probably went for a round of golf, got his hair redyed and had another moan about the election..... He's a busy man.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Lockdown type measures are down to State level control, not Federal. NY state kicked up a big fuss at the merest suggestion of Federal restrictions.
Things that are under Federal control are being done, eg financial support, funding of vaccine development.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Presumably the latter. There’s been idiots out there setting fire to mobile masts after all.

Equally, announcing it in public would make it a target for terrorist organisations or other states that wanted to sabotage our response.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yup. A store of covid vaccine, especially the world’s first and so far only properly approved covid vaccine, is the very definition of a high-profile target. Every wingnut on the planet would likely want to do something to it, and keeping the location secret protects it against the ones who might have sufficient motivation and resources to try.

(Russian state actors would be most likely to have both motive and resources for a bit of basic sabotage. The narrative of incompetence in the Western response would be domestically useful, especially as they’re apparently taking big risks with an inadequately tested vaccine of their own in order to claim first place).