Cable Forum
Page 14 of 40 « First 410111213 14 1516171824 Last »
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Cable Forum (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/index.php)
-   Current Affairs (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   Brexit (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33707507)

nomadking 07-04-2019 12:43
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35990318)
Ahhh, be nice ;)

I think most of us here are reasonably well informed on the structures of the EU and out Government. The disagreement comes on what that actually means.

The EU way of doing things is different from the UK as the executive and legislative are separate organisations. To an extent, the EU system is like the US system with the President setting policy and the houses voting on those policies.

So yes, the system is different. Is it wrong, no. Is it perfect, no. Is it better or worse than the UK system? That's where we disagree. In my view, it's not better or worse, just different.

Of course, when the executive and legislative disagree, that's when the fun begins - see where we are now in the UK and recent shutdown in the US. Looking through Votewatch Europe, the Parliament seems to vote against proposals roughly 10-15% of the time suggesting a reasonably good alignment between the Commission and Parliament but that isn't too much of a surprise as the makup of the commissioners is roughly the same as the makeup of the Parliament in terms of party affiliation (interestingly, the UK Commissioner is non-aligned)

Contrast this with the UK Government losing a vote on proposed legislation. Then, all hell breaks loose!
Nothing to do with the structure of EU governance.



Nothing happens without the say so of Germany and France. Just look at how many meeting just the two of them have. I wonder how many of the EU directives and regulations haven't first been implemented or proposed in Germany and France? How many have they been forced to accept against their will? The declared aim is to have a "level playing field", which means that every EU country has to be hampered by the same rules as Germany and France. Is Romania, for example, ever going to be able to match Germany? Of course not. No amount of money is going to enable that. Yet that is what the EU is supposedly attempting to do.

---------- Post added at 12:43 ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990319)
I don’t think you can reasonably say all of those in favour of a delay want to prevent Brexit. We aren’t prepared, and were never prepared for March 29, for a no deal scenario. It’s reasonable for anyone to suggest an extension on that basis (remainer or leave side).
If that is the case, then there is absolutely no reason for further discussions of any sort with anybody. The ONGOING and seemingly never-ending discussions are only aimed at CHANGING the "destination" from "Leave". NONE of the discussions are aimed at "what do we need to do to make Brexit work".

Pierre 07-04-2019 12:49
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35990301)
Jon can only be held responsible for his own posts, not the last few posts.
I meant his last few posts, does everything really need spelling out to you syllable by syllable, anyway this is a digression I won’t pursue any further.

jfman 07-04-2019 12:49
Re: Brexit
 
Yes they are. A customs union and single market alignment are exactly the kind of discussions around making Brexit work that you describe.

Pierre 07-04-2019 12:55
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990319)
I don’t think you can reasonably say all of those in favour of a delay want to prevent Brexit. We aren’t prepared, and were never prepared for March 29, for a no deal scenario. It’s reasonable for anyone to suggest an extension on that basis (remainer or leave side).
If they said there will be a delay whilst we prepare for a no deal Brexit, I’d be fine with that.

Although I would liken it to removing a plaster, the longer and slower it is the more painful it is.

just rip it off, it will sting, but just for a short while.

---------- Post added at 12:55 ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990323)
Yes they are. A customs union and single market alignment are exactly the kind of discussions around making Brexit work that you describe.
Which isn’t leaving the EU.............oh look it’s Punxsutawney Phil!

jfman 07-04-2019 13:12
Re: Brexit
 
Indeed.

Those in favour are missing a trick though. It’s Brexit without the risk. The conversation moves on and we have left the EU legally. Remaining is no longer in the conversation.

A customs union could apply to goods (which is ideal really) but not services. This would allow the UK to strike deals with the rest of the world on the supply of services.

If, down the line, we wanted to renegotiate or leave a customs union we could. Freedom of movement would have long since been dead. It becomes a conversation about trade only. We can all agree we want more trade that benefits us?

Remainers are fighting for the “whole package”. Eliminate some of it and reduce it to a trade discussion in five years time and far fewer numbers will be interested in the debate at all.

Sephiroth 07-04-2019 13:35
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35990312)
Yes Brexit is a highly divisive and emotive topic of that there is no doubt but being civil is very easy at the end of the day as its a bit like disagreements in ones family as family members might disagree on a good many things in life but generally always remain civil to each other despite their disagreements.
One person’s “not civil” is another person’s assertiveness. I would regard non-civility as being nearer to “you are talking bollocks” - while though true in some cases where used.



---------- Post added at 13:32 ---------- Previous post was at 13:28 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990323)
Yes they are. A customs union and single market alignment are exactly the kind of discussions around making Brexit work that you describe.
I don’t see how what you say would make Brexit work. We would be better off remaining and peeing on them inside the tent than being peed on as rule takers from outside the tent. The export maths doesn’t stack up.

Brexit works if we make a clean break.


---------- Post added at 13:35 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990327)
Indeed.

Those in favour are missing a trick though. It’s Brexit without the risk. The conversation moves on and we have left the EU legally. Remaining is no longer in the conversation.

A customs union could apply to goods (which is ideal really) but not services. This would allow the UK to strike deals with the rest of the world on the supply of services.

If, down the line, we wanted to renegotiate or leave a customs union we could. Freedom of movement would have long since been dead. It becomes a conversation about trade only. We can all agree we want more trade that benefits us?

Remainers are fighting for the “whole package”. Eliminate some of it and reduce it to a trade discussion in five years time and far fewer numbers will be interested in the debate at all.
But what about the backstop that Brussels would insist upon? We can’t allow ourselves to be perpetually locked in, at Macron’s mercy for fishing in our waters against release from the backstop.

Carth 07-04-2019 13:36
Re: Brexit
 
There are a few people in these threads that post things that raise my hackles . . unintentionally I presume . . but I've always had a different 'mind set' attitude anyway ;)

Many of those posters have however received positive 'likes' for stuff that has made me chuckle etc.

Brexit is a very difficult topic not to get 'wound up' about, especially when it's all text based communication on a forum. Those same people that sometimes wind me up would be bought a drink if we met in a pub, we're just folk with different views, ideas and goals. :Yes: :tu:

99% of politicians would get that drink poured over their head :D

jfman 07-04-2019 13:44
Re: Brexit
 
Baby steps works because it removes the cliff edge which is at present galvanising the opponents of Brexit. Get a deal and end freedom of movement now.

A future Government will be better placed to renegotiate trade agreements than this one which is tied to the whims of the ERG/DUP.

The backstop is why we need a proper customs union with exit rights. Move the Northen Ireland problem to when we have a Government that’s not relying on NI votes.

nomadking 07-04-2019 16:31
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990333)
Baby steps works because it removes the cliff edge which is at present galvanising the opponents of Brexit. Get a deal and end freedom of movement now.

A future Government will be better placed to renegotiate trade agreements than this one which is tied to the whims of the ERG/DUP.

The backstop is why we need a proper customs union with exit rights. Move the Northen Ireland problem to when we have a Government that’s not relying on NI votes.
BIG problems with a "baby steps" approach.
1) It would be one step forward to Brexit and 2 steps forwards firmly to Remain in the future. Brexit must not be allowed to be reversed as easily as it would be.
2) Still no mechanism for ending whatever arrangement.

3) Wouldn't solve the delays at Customs. Doesn't currently solve it for the EU-Turkey Customs union.
4) Everything would be set by the EU, with us having no say whatsoever. Not that we have much of a say as it is.


With the backstop we have NO exit rights. Only what the EU allows us to have, and that would inevitably be remaining in a Customs Union against our will. Why shouldn't the DUP object to NI being treated differently.

jfman 07-04-2019 16:43
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35990344)
BIG problems with a "baby steps" approach.
1) It would be one step forward to Brexit and 2 steps forwards firmly to Remain in the future. Brexit must not be allowed to be reversed as easily as it would be.
2) Still no mechanism for ending whatever arrangement.
3) Wouldn't solve the delays at Customs. Doesn't currently solve it for the EU-Turkey Customs union.
4) Everything would be set by the EU, with us having no say whatsoever. Not that we have much of a say as it is.

With the backstop we have NO exit rights. Only what the EU allows us to have, and that would inevitably be remaining in a Customs Union against our will. Why shouldn't the DUP object to NI being treated differently.
On point 1: Once legally out, ending freedom of movement, there’s no way back in without rejoining. Rebate gone. Euro. The full bhuna. We are never going to vote for that in a referendum or a party advocating that at a general election. Remainers preferred outcome ceases to exist at this moment.

On point 2 a genuine customs union would have exit arrangements for Great Britain (but not Northern Ireland). A small price to pay, but that’s why we are where we are. Unless you want to deliver a united Ireland this is how Brexit has to work.

On point 3 would depend how closely our arrangements matched Turkey’s.

On point 4 not “everything” would be set by the EU. We can strike separate trade deals on services, which is more lucrative anyway, and common standards facilitates our trade in goods with the EU countries (which account for most of our trade in goods) anyway.

You appear to simply dislike things because they are European. A more pragmatic approach can deliver Britain the Brexit it wants in a phased approach. There’s no need for an “all or nothing” now approach, indeed an approach that is putting Brexit at risk from remainers.

nomadking 07-04-2019 17:12
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990345)
On point 1: Once legally out, ending freedom of movement, there’s no way back in without rejoining. Rebate gone. Euro. The full bhuna. We are never going to vote for that in a referendum or a party advocating that at a general election.

On point 2 a genuine customs union would have exit arrangements for Great Britain (but not Northern Ireland). A small price to pay, but that’s why we are where we are. Unless you want to deliver a united Ireland this is how Brexit has to work.

On point 3 would depend how closely our arrangements matched Turkey’s.

On point 4 not “everything” would be set by the EU. We can strike separate trade deals on services, which is more lucrative anyway, and common standards facilitates our trade in goods with the EU countries (which account for most of our trade) anyway.

You appear to simply dislike things because they are European. A more pragmatic approach can deliver Britain the Brexit it wants in a phased approach. There’s no need for an “all or nothing” now approach, indeed an approach that is putting Brexit at risk from remainers.
Basically I dislike being told what to do by Europe, when we don't really have a say. Nothing wrong with adopting the same or similar rules as the EU if we agree with them, but at the same time we should be able to have differences in standards which might mean refusing certain EU products/produce.


We voted for Leave in the referendum, but have we got it or are we even remotely going to get it? Therefore moving away from Brexit is NOT a foregone conclusion in the future even with having a say on it. Just look at what a potential Labour government wants. If in the mythical world we got a vote, it would be ignored if it went the "wrong" way, as it is now.


The backstop IS a customs union until the EU decides upon an alternative agreement. Why would they agree bother to agree to anything less than that, when they aren't prepared to agree to it now?


The proposals that would remove customs delays have been TURNED DOWN by the EU. Not coincidentally that would also have removed the need for a backstop, which is why the EU objected to it.


The EU is just going to get bigger and bigger in many ways. In the countries it includes and areas that it controls. Once locked into any agreement with the EU, locks you into whatever the EU becomes. An obvious example of that is joining the EEC and what it has now become. The EU is in full control of what you are locked into.


No way would any arrangement be allowed to be more restrictive in nature. A general customs union wouldn't be able to be more selective/restrictive. It only works if you agree to ADD something, not take something away.

jfman 07-04-2019 17:23
Re: Brexit
 
You aren’t going to get the Brexit you want if it’s framed exclusively in ideology. Unicorn Brexit doesn’t exist. Small countries get told what to do by big ones. That’s what globalisation and free trade does.

Sephiroth 07-04-2019 17:31
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990347)
You aren’t going to get the Brexit you want if it’s framed exclusively in ideology. Unicorn Brexit doesn’t exist. Small countries get told what to do by big ones. That’s what globalisation and free trade does.
All the more reason for a clean break.

nomadking 07-04-2019 17:32
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35990348)
All the more reason for a clean break.
We can then build UP from that.

---------- Post added at 17:32 ---------- Previous post was at 17:32 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990347)
You aren’t going to get the Brexit you want if it’s framed exclusively in ideology. Unicorn Brexit doesn’t exist. Small countries get told what to do by big ones. That’s what globalisation and free trade does.
So your argument goes that we are forced to do whatever Germany tells us to?

jfman 07-04-2019 17:53
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35990348)
All the more reason for a clean break.
If we are going cap in hand for free trade deals with anyone and everyone we will be more exposed to their demands, not less.

A customs union, in effect a free trade deal, with the EU on goods allows us to maintain no tariffs with out closest neighbours on goods while being able to negotiate with the rest of the world on services. It actually strengthens our hand, not weakens it.

---------- Post added at 17:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:50 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35990349)
We can then build UP from that.

---------- Post added at 17:32 ---------- Previous post was at 17:32 ----------


So your argument goes that we are forced to do whatever Germany tells us to?
We will do whatever anyone negotiating with us (that has the upper hand) tells us to. USA, China, Japan, Germany, India, France. You know, all the big players. That’s why it’s called capitalism. He who pays the piper cells the tune.

Carth 07-04-2019 18:27
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990351)

A customs union, in effect a free trade deal, with the EU on goods allows us to maintain no tariffs with our closest neighbours on goods while being able to negotiate with the rest of the world on services.
That sounds all fine & dandy . . . what's it gonna cost us in other things?

jfman 07-04-2019 18:28
Re: Brexit
 
Couple of hundred million of fish?

Carth 07-04-2019 18:29
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990356)
Couple of hundred million of fish?
Let them eat Lobster :D

Hugh 07-04-2019 18:40
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35990357)
Let them eat Lobster :D
Scallops! ;)

OLD BOY 07-04-2019 18:54
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990347)
You aren’t going to get the Brexit you want if it’s framed exclusively in ideology. Unicorn Brexit doesn’t exist. Small countries get told what to do by big ones. That’s what globalisation and free trade does.
We may be a small country, but a more relevant fact is that we are the fifth largest economy.

Russia is a huge country, but its economy is pants.

Size matters, certainly, but you are measuring the wrong thing.

ianch99 07-04-2019 18:54
Re: Brexit
 
This analysis of the Leave campaign raises a very disturbing point (start at 02:50 if you want to fast track to this):

Who pulls the strings behind Brexit?

The thing that made this campaign different was the Dark Advertising funded by Dark Money: where ads, funded by money of unknown provenance, were only seen by the sender (obviously), the social media platform (Facebook) and the targeted recipient.

The principles of an open democratic campaign totally subverted .. I know that members on this forum who believe in Democracy would wholeheartedly condemn this.

OLD BOY 07-04-2019 19:05
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990351)

We will do whatever anyone negotiating with us (that has the upper hand) tells us to. USA, China, Japan, Germany, India, France. You know, all the big players. That’s why it’s called capitalism. He who pays the piper cells the tune.
Except that we are a big player, too.

---------- Post added at 19:01 ---------- Previous post was at 18:56 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35990365)
This analysis of the Leave campaign raises a very disturbing point (start at 02:50 if you want to fast track to this):

Who pulls the strings behind Brexit?

The thing that made this campaign different was the Dark Advertising funded by Dark Money: where ads, funded by money of unknown provenance, were only seen by the sender (obviously), the social media platform (Facebook) and the targeted recipient.

The principles of an open democratic campaign totally subverted .. I know that members on this forum who believe in Democracy would wholeheartedly condemn this.
You are conflating the situation. Your comment assumes that people take notice of the stuff they read on social media and what they see in advertisements.

I, for one, take no notice at all. People have their opinions on things and advertisements are highly unlikely to sway most individuals.

---------- Post added at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990333)
Baby steps works because it removes the cliff edge which is at present galvanising the opponents of Brexit. Get a deal and end freedom of movement now.

A future Government will be better placed to renegotiate trade agreements than this one which is tied to the whims of the ERG/DUP.

The backstop is why we need a proper customs union with exit rights. Move the Northen Ireland problem to when we have a Government that’s not relying on NI votes.
Again, you cannot have a customs union AND negotiate trade deals. If we cannot do trade deals, it is not Brexit, and not what the majority voted for.

Whether there is scope to agree with Labour a trading arrangement which still allows us to have an independent trade policy remains to be seen.

nomadking 07-04-2019 19:05
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35990365)
This analysis of the Leave campaign raises a very disturbing point (start at 02:50 if you want to fast track to this):

Who pulls the strings behind Brexit?

The thing that made this campaign different was the Dark Advertising funded by Dark Money: where ads, funded by money of unknown provenance, were only seen by the sender (obviously), the social media platform (Facebook) and the targeted recipient.

The principles of an open democratic campaign totally subverted .. I know that members on this forum who believe in Democracy would wholeheartedly condemn this.
Nonsense. Support for Brexit was there LONG before the idea of a referendum was put forward(eg 2010). Why shouldn't anybody and everybody be allowed to highlight a particular issue? How many people see, never mind pay attention to, ads on Facebook or anywhere else for that matter?

Pierre 07-04-2019 19:06
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35990365)
This analysis of the Leave campaign raises a very disturbing point (start at 02:50 if you want to fast track to this):

Who pulls the strings behind Brexit?

The thing that made this campaign different was the Dark Advertising funded by Dark Money: where ads, funded by money of unknown provenance, were only seen by the sender (obviously), the social media platform (Facebook) and the targeted recipient.

The principles of an open democratic campaign totally subverted .. I know that members on this forum who believe in Democracy would wholeheartedly condemn this.
Oooh, Dark money. Is that what Darth Vader uses?

Hugh 07-04-2019 19:08
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35990366)
Except that we are a big player, too.

---------- Post added at 19:01 ---------- Previous post was at 18:56 ----------



You are conflating the situation. Your comment assumes that people take notice of the stuff they read on social media and what they see in advertisements.

I, for one, take no notice at all. People have their opinions on things and advertisements are highly unlikely to sway most individuals.

---------- Post added at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------



Again, you cannot have a customs union AND negotiate trade deals. If we cannot do trade deals, it is not Brexit, and not what the majority voted for.

Whether there is scope to agree with Labour a trading arrangement which still allows us to have an independent trade policy remains to be seen.
Nobody takes any notice - must be why they spend millions of pounds creating and distributing this material, and try to hide where it came from... :rolleyes:

"These are not the droids you’re looking for..."

nomadking 07-04-2019 19:25
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35990372)
Nobody takes any notice - must be why they spend millions of pounds creating and distributing this material, and try to hide where it came from... :rolleyes:

"These are not the droids you’re looking for..."
And where is the PROOF that people take notice of them? Where would the ordinary person in the street get the money to fund these sorts of campaigns. Doesn't mean they don't agree with the content, it's just they don't have the backers that certain groups (eg trade unions) have. Does that mean their voice shouldn't be heard?



Whether an opinion or expression of FACT is allowed, shouldn't depend on its source.

jfman 07-04-2019 19:33
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35990366)
Except that we are a big player, too.

---------- Post added at 19:01 ---------- Previous post was at 18:56 ----------



You are conflating the situation. Your comment assumes that people take notice of the stuff they read on social media and what they see in advertisements.

I, for one, take no notice at all. People have their opinions on things and advertisements are highly unlikely to sway most individuals.

---------- Post added at 19:05 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------



Again, you cannot have a customs union AND negotiate trade deals. If we cannot do trade deals, it is not Brexit, and not what the majority voted for.

Whether there is scope to agree with Labour a trading arrangement which still allows us to have an independent trade policy remains to be seen.
You have failed to understand my posts.

You can have a customs union for goods and still strike trade deals in services. You are confusing “a” customs union with “the” customs union.

Again, you can’t possibly know what 17.4 million people voted for that wasn’t specified on the ballot paper.

---------- Post added at 19:33 ---------- Previous post was at 19:29 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35990376)
And where is the PROOF that people take notice of them? Where would the ordinary person in the street get the money to fund these sorts of campaigns. Doesn't mean they don't agree with the content, it's just they don't have the backers that certain groups (eg trade unions) have. Does that mean their voice shouldn't be heard?

Whether an opinion or expression of FACT is allowed, shouldn't depend on its source.
Literally all around you in life. On the side of buses, taxis, billboards, train stations, newspapers, magazines, televisions and probably the vast majority of websites the average user accesses is the proof.

If advertising doesn’t work why is so much money spent on it at all?

OLD BOY 07-04-2019 19:44
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990378)
You have failed to understand my posts.

You can have a customs union for goods and still strike trade deals in services. You are confusing “a” customs union with “the” customs union.

Again, you can’t possibly know what 17.4 million people voted for that wasn’t specified on the ballot paper.
I have not misunderstood at all. I fully appreciate that the proposed customs arrangements would still allow us to do trade deals on services, but most leavers also want us to be able to do trade deals on goods as well.

We were clearly given reassurance that by being outside the EU we would be able to negotiate our own trade deals, which is an important economic imperative for leaving the EU. Yes leavers did understand and accept that.

You need to grasp the fact that it is the remainers who are confused. Time and time again, on Question Time and in interviews with the public, leavers are protesting that they DID know what they were voting for, contrary to what argumentative remainers keep saying.

You can keep repeating that they did not as much as you like, but that does not make you right, and I aill keep reminding you of this.

nomadking 07-04-2019 19:47
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990378)
You have failed to understand my posts.

You can have a customs union for goods and still strike trade deals in services. You are confusing “a” customs union with “the” customs union.

Again, you can’t possibly know what 17.4 million people voted for that wasn’t specified on the ballot paper.

---------- Post added at 19:33 ---------- Previous post was at 19:29 ----------

Literally all around you in life. On the side of buses, taxis, billboards, train stations, newspapers, magazines, televisions and probably the vast majority of websites the average user accesses is the proof.

If advertising doesn’t work why is so much money spent on it at all?
Different sort of advertising. Ads on products to be chosen form a wide range is very different from ads based upon "political" opinions and principles. Still doesn't mean that viewpoint shouldn't be allowed because of who funded it.



Quote:
The EU has customs unions with the non-EU countries San Marino, Andorra and, most notably, Turkey. It also has customs facilitation treaties with countries such as Switzerland and Norway, but these treaties do not abolish all border checks on goods.
...
If pursued, a customs union option with the EU may pose similar problems for the UK post-Brexit. The UK would have to negotiate FTAs with the EU trading partners and grant them the same preferences (that is, apply the same tariff as that the EU). Third countries, however, could be reluctant to engage in such negotiations since they would anyways have access to UK markets through their FTAs with the EU. The issue would be especially important today when the EU is negotiating a number of ambitious FTAs.

jfman 07-04-2019 19:48
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35990385)
I have not misunderstood at all. I fully appreciate that the proposed customs arrangements would still allow us to do trade deals on services, but most leavers also want us to be able to do trade deals on goods as well.

We were clearly given reassurance that by being outside the EU we would be able to negotiate our own trade deals, which is an important economic imperative for leaving the EU. Yes leavers did understand and accept that.

You need to grasp the fact that it is the remainers who are confused. Time and time again, on Question Time and in interviews with the public, leavers are protesting that they DID know what they were voting for, contrary to what argumentative remainers keep saying.

You can keep repeating that they did not as much as you like, but that does not make you right, and I aill keep reminding you of this.
You did misunderstand. You literally typed the following:

Quote:
Again, you cannot have a customs union AND negotiate trade deals. If we cannot do trade deals, it is not Brexit, and not what the majority voted for.
Given your lack of understanding on this matter it’s unsurprising that you persist with further falsehoods. It’s all about ideology for you, which is fine, but it’s dangerous for you to dabble in half baked thoughts which you present as facts.

denphone 07-04-2019 19:56
Re: Brexit
 
Some thoughts here from a very strong Brexiteer.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ope...d-think-again/

OLD BOY 07-04-2019 19:57
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990387)
You did misunderstand. You literally typed the following:



Given your lack of understanding on this matter it’s unsurprising that you persist with further falsehoods. It’s all about ideology for you, which is fine, but it’s dangerous for you to dabble in half baked thoughts which you present as facts.
Er, what? Do you really believe that you can negotiate trade deals while belonging to a customs union? Would you mind explaining that?

This is not ideology, it's the economic case for Brexit.

jfman 07-04-2019 20:00
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35990392)
Er, what? Do you really believe that you can negotiate trade deals while belonging to a customs union? Would you mind explaining that?

This is not ideology, it's the economic case for Brexit.
You’re contradicting yourself again.

Quote:
I have not misunderstood at all. I fully appreciate that the proposed customs arrangements would still allow us to do trade deals on services,
Which is it?

We all know there’s no economic case for Brexit. Even Mogg says it could be 50 years before we see any benefit. (Channel 4)

Hugh 07-04-2019 20:19
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35990386)
Different sort of advertising. Ads on products to be chosen form a wide range is very different from ads based upon "political" opinions and principles. Still doesn't mean that viewpoint shouldn't be allowed because of who funded it.
Why hide where it’s being funded from?

1andrew1 07-04-2019 20:48
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35990400)
Why hide where it’s being funded from?
Where could that be?

OLD BOY 07-04-2019 23:06
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990393)
You’re contradicting yourself again.



Which is it?

We all know there’s no economic case for Brexit. Even Mogg says it could be 50 years before we see any benefit. (Channel 4)
You are not paying attention. The customs union covers both goods and services. That is not what we voted for.

jfman 07-04-2019 23:24
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35990412)
You are not paying attention. The customs union covers both goods and services. That is not what we voted for.
You’ve once again changed your mind, and misunderstood my point (and conflated your ideological view of Brexit with that of 17.4 million other people).

One more time. A customs union (not to be confused with the customs union) could allow us a common trade area with the EU over goods and allow us to negotiate international trade deals on services.

If you search for the term “the customs union” in all of my posts you will find I have only ever used it today to correct your misunderstanding of the subject area.

nomadking 07-04-2019 23:48
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990413)
You’ve once again changed your mind, and misunderstood my point (and conflated your ideological view of Brexit with that of 17.4 million other people).

One more time. A customs union (not to be confused with the customs union) could allow us a common trade area with the EU over goods and allow us to negotiate international trade deals on services.

If you search for the term “the customs union” in all of my posts you will find I have only ever used it today to correct your misunderstanding of the subject area.
So which type is on offer from the EU? That's the only type we can refer to.

jfman 07-04-2019 23:59
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35990414)
So which type is on offer from the EU? That's the only type we can refer to.
You’d need to ask them? I’m not in the negotiations.

Carth 08-04-2019 00:18
Re: Brexit
 
All this crap about funding Leave using 'dark money' and the hysteria which it's thrown about with . . . get a life people


Nobody ever mentions the millions of our money spent by the Government telling everyone to vote Remain do they :rolleyes:

The government is spending more than £9m on sending a leaflet to every UK household setting out the case for remaining in the European Union.

Mine went into the bin without reading . . .

Dave42 08-04-2019 00:50
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35990417)
All this crap about funding Leave using 'dark money' and the hysteria which it's thrown about with . . . get a life people


Nobody ever mentions the millions of our money spent by the Government telling everyone to vote Remain do they :rolleyes:

The government is spending more than £9m on sending a leaflet to every UK household setting out the case for remaining in the European Union.

Mine went into the bin without reading . . .
the money for remain wasn't Russian money just saying ;)

jfman 08-04-2019 00:57
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35990418)
the money for remain wasn't Russian money just saying ;)
Can’t have been big corporations either, they don’t pay tax here :D

OLD BOY 08-04-2019 07:31
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990413)
You’ve once again changed your mind, and misunderstood my point (and conflated your ideological view of Brexit with that of 17.4 million other people).

One more time. A customs union (not to be confused with the customs union) could allow us a common trade area with the EU over goods and allow us to negotiate international trade deals on services.

If you search for the term “the customs union” in all of my posts you will find I have only ever used it today to correct your misunderstanding of the subject area.
That's right - a trade area over goods (not services). What I and most other leavers want is the ability to strike trade deals over both goods and services.

I don't know where you have gained a belief that I have changed my mind on this - I haven't.. If you really believe you can have the best of both worlds in relation to goods, you are indeed chasing unicorns. You would have to square that with EU and WTO rules.

jfman 08-04-2019 08:08
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35990423)
That's right - a trade area over goods (not services). What I and most other leavers want is the ability to strike trade deals over both goods and services.

I don't know where you have gained a belief that I have changed my mind on this - I haven't.. If you really believe you can have the best of both worlds in relation to goods, you are indeed chasing unicorns. You would have to square that with EU and WTO rules.
Anyone can see there’s at least four contradictory statements by you.

Quote:
Er, what? Do you really believe that you can negotiate trade deals while belonging to a customs union? Would you mind explaining that?
I’m getting lost, you either can or can’t negotiate trade deals for services while in a customs union.

You seem further confused that I want the “best of both worlds” in relation to goods - that’s not the case. I’ve clearly said for a number of posts now a customs union (not to be confused with the customs union) covering goods and separate trade deals with the world covering services. I’ve lost track whether you believe it is possible or not but I can assure the forum your belief in it or otherwise is irrelevant, it is possible.

In around half of your posts you seem to grasp this. However in the other half it’s gone.

1andrew1 08-04-2019 08:52
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990426)
In around half of your posts you seem to grasp this. However in the other half it’s gone.
I don't get it either. Old Boy, are those all your posts or has someone jumped on your computer when you've been away from your desk?

papa smurf 08-04-2019 10:50
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35990418)
the money for remain wasn't Russian money just saying ;)
It was recovered from the pockets of Judas.

jfman 08-04-2019 11:28
Re: Brexit
 
May has been summoned to Berlin by the boss. Tomorrow at noon.

papa smurf 08-04-2019 11:39
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990448)
May has been summoned to Berlin by the boss. Tomorrow at noon.
Is she taking the deputy pm jezza with her ?

jfman 08-04-2019 11:42
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35990449)
Is she taking the deputy pm jezza with her ?
Does she trust the de facto PM Oliver Letwin to not stage a coup? ;)

EDIT: she’s also meeting perfidious Macron.

RichardCoulter 08-04-2019 11:46
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990448)
May has been summoned to Berlin by the boss. Tomorrow at noon.
Interesting, I wonder what that will be about.

papa smurf 08-04-2019 12:01
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990450)
Does she trust the de facto PM Oliver Letwin to not stage a coup? ;)

EDIT: she’s also meeting perfidious Macron.
He's now known as the oppositions useful idiot.

Mr K 08-04-2019 12:05
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35990454)
He's now known as the oppositions useful idiot.
Don't want to believe everything you're fed in the papers Smurf ! Thank God there are some sensible Tories about, otherwise we'd be a banana republic by now.

papa smurf 08-04-2019 12:07
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35990456)
Don't want to believe everything you're fed in the papers Smurf ! Thank God there are some sensible Tories about, otherwise we'd be a banana republic by now.
“The person who writes for fools is always sure of a large audience.”

1andrew1 08-04-2019 13:07
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35990452)
Interesting, I wonder what that will be about.
It's about MX2 (a second meaningful extension). ;)

Pierre 08-04-2019 13:26
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35990452)
Interesting, I wonder what that will be about.
Brexit probably.

RichardCoulter 08-04-2019 14:45
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 35990467)
Brexit probably.
Obviously :D

Heard a new buzzword today with Brexit becoming such a sideshow; "Bretflix".

Mr K 08-04-2019 15:34
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35990476)
Obviously :D

Heard a new buzzword today with Brexit becoming such a sideshow; "Bretflix".
There is definitely a potential musical to be made out of Brexit. Bit like Les Miserables, but more depressing...

OLD BOY 08-04-2019 15:36
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990426)
Anyone can see there’s at least four contradictory statements by you.



I’m getting lost, you either can or can’t negotiate trade deals for services while in a customs union.

You seem further confused that I want the “best of both worlds” in relation to goods - that’s not the case. I’ve clearly said for a number of posts now a customs union (not to be confused with the customs union) covering goods and separate trade deals with the world covering services. I’ve lost track whether you believe it is possible or not but I can assure the forum your belief in it or otherwise is irrelevant, it is possible.

In around half of your posts you seem to grasp this. However in the other half it’s gone.
I am dying to hear what these four contradictory statements are!

It is true that some time back, I said if we could get a customs arrangement that also allowed us to negotiate trade deals for goods and services on our own, that would be a good thing. However, everything I have read on this subject says it can't be done.

If we could get a customs arrangement as well as the freedom to forge trade deals on goods and services, that would indeed be the best of both worlds, and I would be happy with that. But outside of cloud cuckoo land, I'm afraid that's not possible.

RichardCoulter 08-04-2019 15:46
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35990488)
There is definitely a potential musical to be made out of Brexit. Bit like Les Miserables, but more depressing...
I'm (seriously) expecting that in years to come a film or drama will be made about the extraordinarily events surrounding Brexit. I suspect it will be one of those where they will use facts that are available and accounts about what went on in secret by reliable witnesses who would remain anonymous.

It's clear that May's political career (of any substance) is coming to an end. If she doesn't remain as a backbencher, I expect that she will write a book about, or including, her account of Brexit too.

OLD BOY 08-04-2019 15:46
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35990433)
I don't get it either. Old Boy, are those all your posts or has someone jumped on your computer when you've been away from your desk?
What contradictory posts are you two on about? I'm sure I've explained my position coherently, so either you are misinterpreting what I've said or you are mis-remembering.

For the record, a customs union is completely unacceptable to me unless we have the capacity to make our own deals on goods and services, and my understanding is that this is not possible. If you can show me I'm wrong on that, I will gladly accept it.

I am happy to leave with TM's deal if we can get out of the backstop, and I'm happy also to accept a no-deal.

That is my position and if you can point to where I've said anything to the contrary, I would be truly amazed.

Just getting the popcorn now...:D

jfman 08-04-2019 15:52
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35990493)
What contradictory posts are you two on about? I'm sure I've explained my position coherently, so either you are misinterpreting what I've said or you are mis-remembering.

For the record, a customs union is completely unacceptable to me unless we have the capacity to make our own deals on goods and services, and my understanding is that this is not possible. If you can show me I'm wrong on that, I will gladly accept it.

I am happy to leave with TM's deal if we can get out of the backstop, and I'm happy also to accept a no-deal.

That is my position and if you can point to where I've said anything to the contrary, I would be truly amazed.

Just getting the popcorn now...:D
Do you mean of the type that leaves us free to negotiate deals on services? Or the type where you can’t? Or neither?

Mick 08-04-2019 16:02
Re: Brexit
 
BREAKING: Exec of the 1922 are due to go to No 10 imminently to meet with PM. Source: Sky News's Beth Rigby.

denphone 08-04-2019 16:08
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35990492)
I'm (seriously) expecting that in years to come a film or drama will be made about the extraordinarily events surrounding Brexit. I suspect it will be one of those where they will use facts that are available and accounts about what went on in secret by reliable witnesses who would remain anonymous.

It's clear that May's political career (of any substance) is coming to an end. If she doesn't remain as a backbencher, I expect that she will write a book about, or including, her account of Brexit too.
The BBC have already transmitted a drama about Brexit Richard.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brexit-Unci...4&s=dvd&sr=1-1

Dave42 08-04-2019 16:15
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35990497)
BREAKING: Exec of the 1922 are due to go to No 10 imminently to meet with PM. Source: Sky News's Beth Rigby.
she safe to December under tory party rules so cant see anything changing

denphone 08-04-2019 16:18
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35990499)
she safe to December under tory party rules so cant see anything changing
Well if the removal van turns up at 10 Downing street Dave you know the game is up.;)

Dave42 08-04-2019 16:25
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35990500)
Well if the removal van turns up at 10 Downing street Dave you know the game is up.;)
think chances of that very slim Den ;)

denphone 08-04-2019 16:27
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35990502)
think chances of that very slim Den ;)
Most probably Dave but we are living in volatile times so never say never.

ianch99 08-04-2019 16:30
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35990417)
All this crap about funding Leave using 'dark money' and the hysteria which it's thrown about with . . . get a life people


Nobody ever mentions the millions of our money spent by the Government telling everyone to vote Remain do they :rolleyes:

The government is spending more than £9m on sending a leaflet to every UK household setting out the case for remaining in the European Union.

Mine went into the bin without reading . . .
I am not sure concerns about how democratic processes are compromised means "get a life" but I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion. If you watched the video I posted a link to, I think most fair minded people would be concerned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990450)
Does she trust the de facto PM Oliver Letwin to not stage a coup? ;)

EDIT: she’s also meeting perfidious Macron.
I always thought the UK was the perfidious one in the room?

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Perfidious_Albion

---------- Post added at 16:30 ---------- Previous post was at 16:29 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35990476)
Obviously :D

Heard a new buzzword today with Brexit becoming such a sideshow; "Bretflix".
Funny ... I like this :)

What resolution will this be in? ;)

RichardCoulter 08-04-2019 16:33
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35990498)
The BBC have already transmitted a drama about Brexit Richard.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Brexit-Unci...4&s=dvd&sr=1-1
True, but I mean one that spills the beans from start to finish when It's all over.

papa smurf 08-04-2019 16:39
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35990508)
True, but I mean one that spills the beans from start to finish when It's all over.
The author of that gem probably hasn't been born yet;)

denphone 08-04-2019 16:48
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35990497)
BREAKING: Exec of the 1922 are due to go to No 10 imminently to meet with PM. Source: Sky News's Beth Rigby.
Quote:
The Press Association says the meeting between Theresa May and the executive of the Conservative 1922 Committee taking place this afternoon is one of their regular meetings.

RichardCoulter 08-04-2019 16:52
Re: Brexit
 
Even so, Brexit is likely to be high on the agenda.

denphone 08-04-2019 16:53
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35990513)
Even so, Brexit is likely to be high on the agenda.
Probably 99% of the agenda.

nomadking 08-04-2019 17:17
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35990513)
Even so, Brexit is likely to be high on the agenda.
The only thing that seems to be on any agenda is Remain, anything but Brexit.

denphone 08-04-2019 17:20
Re: Brexit
 
Downing Street has issued a statement about the talks with Labour. A spokesperson said.

Quote:
We have been in touch with the opposition today and technical talks between officials will take place this evening.

jfman 08-04-2019 17:26
Re: Brexit
 
The Lords have amended the fast track Bill, so it’ll be in the Commons again to consider that amendment. Gives the PM more flexibility with the date.

denphone 08-04-2019 17:40
Re: Brexit
 
1922 Committee has ruled out call for a fresh no confidence vote in May, says Brady.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ster-live-news


Quote:
Sir Graham Brady, chairman of the Conservative backbench 1922 Committee, spoke to ITV as he was leaving Downing Street after a meeting between the committee’s executive and the prime minister.
Quote:
He wasn’t excessively forthcoming, but he said he and his colleagues had had an update on the talks with Labour. When he was asked about the “deal” with Labour, he replied:

denphone 08-04-2019 17:59
Re: Brexit
 
Confirmation that the Conservatives will be contesting the EU elections.

Quote:
Jessica Elgot
‏
Verified account

@jessicaelgot
Follow
Follow @jessicaelgot

https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/sta...94199941861376

More
Tory party appears to concede it will be fighting EU elections. Here’s the email to potential candidates.

jfman 08-04-2019 18:13
Re: Brexit
 
She’s going to rescind isn’t she.

OLD BOY 08-04-2019 18:23
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990494)
Do you mean of the type that leaves us free to negotiate deals on services? Or the type where you can’t? Or neither?
Clearly you are not actually reading what I am writing as I've answered this on a number of occasions.

Mick 08-04-2019 18:27
Re: Brexit
 
Several recent off-topic replies removed. If it's nothing to do with Brexit, keep it out of this thread.

Also, members should not be bringing and discussing what is in other peoples signatures, in to the topic.

OLD BOY 08-04-2019 18:29
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35990499)
she safe to December under tory party rules so cant see anything changing
She won't step down until she delivers Brexit. On that, there is agreement within the party.

Damien 08-04-2019 18:54
Re: Brexit
 
I wonder if May and Corbyn are basically creating a bit of theatre so that the EU grant us the extension to the end of the year amidst the fear they might not....

denphone 08-04-2019 18:56
Re: Brexit
 
The commons leader Andrea Leadsom.

Quote:
The Commons Leader, Andrea Leadsom, has confirmed the government is expected to bring forward a motion to extend the Brexit process. Making a business statement to MPs, she has said:
Quote:
In the event the European Union (Withdrawal) (No 5) Bill receives royal assent today, the House may be expected to approve a motion relating to section one of the Bill – to seek an extension of the period specified in Article 50 (3) of the Treaty on European Union.

Carth 08-04-2019 19:23
Re: Brexit
 
If they keep on digging that hole, we'll be in the EU and Australia by this time next year :rolleyes:

It's getting more extensions than the retirement age :D

jfman 08-04-2019 19:25
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35990541)
If they keep on digging that hole, we'll be in the EU and Australia by this time next year :rolleyes:

It's getting more extensions than the retirement age :D
Does that mean there'll be no Brexit as I'm convinced there will be no retirement age by the time I get there. ;)

Damien 08-04-2019 19:51
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35990541)
If they keep on digging that hole, we'll be in the EU and Australia by this time next year :rolleyes:

It's getting more extensions than the retirement age :D
By the time it happens I’ll probably be a Brexiter :shocked:

Pierre 08-04-2019 19:52
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35990534)
She won't step down until she delivers Brexit. On that, there is agreement within the party.
She’ll be here forever then.

jfman 08-04-2019 20:30
Re: Brexit
 
Letwin-Cooper Bill off for Royal Assent this evening. Leadsom says Government is allowing for a debate on an extension date tomorrow.

1andrew1 08-04-2019 23:09
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
MPs race new law through parliament forcing Theresa May to delay Brexit again
The legislation has gone through the Commons and Lords, and now needs Royal Assent from the Queen to become law.
https://news.sky.com/story/no-brexit...es-pm-11688123

jfman 08-04-2019 23:12
Re: Brexit
 
Just happened. We now have a European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2019.

Mick 08-04-2019 23:19
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990560)
Just happened. We now have a European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2019.
Which is a pointless law one has to say. The PM has already asked for an Extension, only takes one of the 27 to veto and we could still leave on April 12th with no deal. :rolleyes:

1andrew1 08-04-2019 23:24
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35990561)
Which is a pointless law one has to say. The PM has already asked for an Extension, only takes one of the 27 to veto and we could still leave on April 12th with no deal. :rolleyes:
How very dare they exercise their sovereign rights, the bare-faced cheek! :D
But I'm pretty sure the EU will agree to an extension, neither side wins in the case of no-deal.

jfman 08-04-2019 23:40
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35990561)
Which is a pointless law one has to say. The PM has already asked for an Extension, only takes one of the 27 to veto and we could still leave on April 12th with no deal. :rolleyes:
What it demonstrates is that another commonly held belief prior to March 29th isn’t true. That Parliament would be too slow and we could fall into “no deal” if Government sat back and allowed it. Primary legislation enabled in just three sitting days.

Parliament has forced May’s hand. It can, and almost undoubtedly will, do so again if she continues to come up with inadequate solutions. It raises the prospect of either a second referendum or general election to break the deadlock.

Mick 08-04-2019 23:43
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990564)
What it demonstrates is that another commonly held belief prior to March 29th isn’t true. That Parliament would be too slow and we could fall into “no deal” if Government sat back and allowed it.

Parliament has forced May’s hand. It can, and almost undoubtedly will, do so again if she continues to come up with inadequate solutions.
Wrong as per usual. We could have left on March 29th. It was May who chose not to. But she had it within her power to leave, so this notion Parliament was fast to act, they only got the time to act via an extension.

That said. The bill is still as I say, utterly pointless.

Dave42 08-04-2019 23:47
Re: Brexit
 
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2019/04/2.jpg

royal assent given now in law

jfman 08-04-2019 23:48
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35990565)
Wrong as per usual. We could have left on March 29th. It was May who chose not to. But she had it within her power to leave, so this notion Parliament was fast to act, they only got the time to act via an extension.

That said. The bill is still as I say, utterly pointless.
No more wrong than your claims that the Parliamentary processes are long, or that we are leaving on March 29th.

May chose not to because there was no Parliamentary support for doing so. Hard Brexit or WTO Brexit (insert any name you please) is dead.

Parliament has plenty of time to further legislate between now and June 30th, if indeed that’s the date the EU opt for. It’d be a good laugh if they forced a year long extension.

Dave42 08-04-2019 23:53
Re: Brexit
 
Daniel Kawczynski
‏
Verified account

@DKShrewsbury
Follow
Follow @DKShrewsbury

More
Have decided to resign from ERG. Despite excellent Chairmanship by @Jacob_Rees_Mogg who has accommodated all views I can no longer be a member of caucas which is preventing WA4 from passing. Hardcore element of ‘Unicorn’ dreamers now actually endangering #Brexit

Mick 09-04-2019 00:06
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 35990567)
May chose not to because there was no Parliamentary support for doing so. Hard Brexit or WTO Brexit (insert any name you please) is dead
No it is not, No Deal is still on the table if any of the EU 27 reject extension, sorry to burst that over excitable little bubble of yours.

Parliamentary process for passing Bills is usually very slow, so no I am not wrong on them being slow, actually - this unconstitutional bill was fast tracked by a Remain Parliament and Lords. Enough said.

And there is no parliamentary support for a Second Referendum, that you keep going on about, defeated what, three times now ? :rolleyes:

1andrew1 09-04-2019 00:09
Re: Brexit
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35990568)
Daniel Kawczynski
‏
Verified account

@DKShrewsbury
Follow
Follow @DKShrewsbury

More
Have decided to resign from ERG. Despite excellent Chairmanship by @Jacob_Rees_Mogg who has accommodated all views I can no longer be a member of caucas which is preventing WA4 from passing. Hardcore element of ‘Unicorn’ dreamers now actually endangering #Brexit
Wow, it's taken him long enough to realise that the true threat to Brexit comes from what he accurately describes as the 'unicorn' dreamers. If people didn't fall for their own nonsense, he would have arrived at this conclusion in time to have voted for Theresa May's deal and encouraged his colleagues to do the same!


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 05:43.
Page 14 of 40 « First 410111213 14 1516171824 Last »
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
All Posts and Content are © Cable Forum