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-   -   Bring Back Fox Hunting (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33654524)

nomadking 09-05-2017 19:23
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35898184)
i would be happy to throw these people to a pack of starving dogs after all it's just sport .

---------- Post added at 17:16 ---------- Previous post was at 17:15 ----------
we might have to come out of retirement .

---------- Post added at 17:20 ---------- Previous post was at 17:16 ----------

i just can't see the fascination in inflicting unnecessary pain on any living thing ,with the exception of people who need to learn what pain is and how it's not really very sporting
Perhaps you should take a look at a field of ewes and lambs after a fox has been about.

Mr K 09-05-2017 19:33
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35898210)
Perhaps you should take a look at a field of ewes and lambs after a fox has been about.
So ? Shoot the fox, without the dogs, hunt, brandy, jodpers, ripping up the countryside, slow painful death etc etc. Much quicker solution too.

TheDaddy 09-05-2017 20:15
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35898109)
I'd put money on it not being in there, to many of the little people are against it
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35898179)
Theresa May announces she wants to bring back fox hunting.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7726506.html
:Yikes: how much do I owe you

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35898194)
Jeepers, she's seriously miscalculated there. You expect it from Cameron and the Eton toffs but I thought was in touch with public feeling? Can't be justified on any grounds, as pest control it's very inefficient. Hunting something till it's exhausted to be slowly torn apart by dogs, can only please a few twisted saddos.
Your just using this as an opportunity to have a pop at the upper classes aren't you because based on that you have no idea how a hunt works

denphone 09-05-2017 20:21
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
You owe me nothing TD.:)

papa smurf 09-05-2017 20:26
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35898213)
:Yikes: how much do I owe you



Your just using this as an opportunity to have a pop at the upper classes aren't you because based on that you have no idea how a hunt works
no it's also an opportunity to have a go at the lower class oiks that do the dirty work for the "upper classes " so they can have a jolly day out torturing foxes tally ho oiks

Pierre 09-05-2017 22:09
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35898181)
political suicide
Oh dear, don't let that potential majority go to your head.

Shut the frack up.

This is the first sign of poor judgement from May that I have seen.

Maggy 10-05-2017 11:58
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Seems May hasn't got anything new to offer.

Damien 10-05-2017 12:16
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35898213)

Your just using this as an opportunity to have a pop at the upper classes aren't you because based on that you have no idea how a hunt works
Out of interest how does it work?

I might be wrong here but from my point of view it wouldn't be allowed if it were not dressed up in the way it was. If 'working-class' people were hunting foxes with their dogs for sport it seems it would even be an issue that it should be banned....

Osem 10-05-2017 15:15
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35898271)
Out of interest how does it work?

I might be wrong here but from my point of view it wouldn't be allowed if it were not dressed up in the way it was. If 'working-class' people were hunting foxes with their dogs for sport it seems it would even be an issue that it should be banned....
As usually is the case, I think some people see it the other way around - their real problem is they take exception to what they perceive as Tory toffs and landed gentry prancing around the countryside having fun killing foxes like arrogant relics of the past. It's more to do with that than anything else.

For me foxes are a pest and need to be controlled but I wouldn't do it this way.

Damien 10-05-2017 15:48
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35898287)
As usually is the case, I think some people see it the other way around - their real problem is they take exception to what they perceive as Tory toffs and landed gentry prancing around the countryside having fun killing foxes like arrogant relics of the past. It's more to do with that than anything else.
I think that attitude definitely exists, a reverse snobbery, certailyn. I think though that we still wouldn't tolerate this sport even if it wasn't one largely enjoyed by the 'landed gentry'.

The reason I ask what the sport actually involves is that at it's core it seems to be causing unnecessary pain and death to animals for enjoyment, even if the enjoyment is in the hunt itself rather than the killing. Generally we don't tolerate that in this country.

I agree with you that population control is needed. Farmers are allowed to shot foxes as a pest-control measure and there are other ways we can humanly control animal populations.

TheDaddy 10-05-2017 17:54
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35898271)
Out of interest how does it work?
.
It's supposed to be one dog that does the kill with one bite and only two of the riders are supposed to be present to witness it, the other riders are supposed to stay well back for the saftey of the dogs. We've been over it in depth earlier in the thread and I accept that it doesn't always turn out this way but that's what is supposed to happen.

Chris 10-05-2017 18:07
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35898292)
I agree with you that population control is needed. Farmers are allowed to shot foxes as a pest-control measure and there are other ways we can humanly control animal populations.
The population control argument in favour of hunting is that hunting foxes tends to take out only the weak whereas shooting them is random.

Damien 10-05-2017 18:45
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35898304)
It's supposed to be one dog that does the kill with one bite and only two of the riders are supposed to be present to witness it, the other riders are supposed to stay well back for the saftey of the dogs. We've been over it in depth earlier in the thread and I accept that it doesn't always turn out this way but that's what is supposed to happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35898305)
The population control argument in favour of hunting is that hunting foxes tends to take out only the weak whereas shooting them is random.
Aren't these all problems existing methods of population control deal with more effectively? We don't hunt badgers for example. Foxes are quick and clever which is probably why they're so ideal for sport. Does a hunt even kill a adequate number of them or is that were the argument it targets the weak come in? How many would typically be killed in a hunt or is it too hard to say?

There are other sports where the use of animals is questionable but has less stigma. There isn't a serious campaign to ban horse racing for example even though it seems to me that causes pain to the horses involved and a number of them die whilst racing....

papa smurf 10-05-2017 18:55
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35898311)
Aren't these all problems existing methods of population control deal with more effectively? We don't hunt badgers for example. Foxes are quick and clever which is probably why they're so ideal for sport. Does a hunt even kill a adequate number of them or is that were the argument it targets the weak come in? How many would typically be killed in a hunt or is it too hard to say?

There are other sports where the use of animals is questionable but has less stigma. There isn't a serious campaign to ban horse racing for example even though it seems to me that causes pain to the horses involved and a number of them die whilst racing....
what you need to realise is animals enjoy pain and enjoy being torn to shreds after being chased by baying hounds and numptys on horseback it only weeds out the ones that want to die .

TheDaddy 10-05-2017 19:15
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35898305)
The population control argument in favour of hunting is that hunting foxes tends to take out only the weak whereas shooting them is random.
The rifle doesn't discriminate plus I remember the first day of hunting post ban where more foxes were killed in one day that all the previous years hunts put together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35898311)
Aren't these all problems existing methods of population control deal with more effectively? We don't hunt badgers for example. Foxes are quick and clever which is probably why they're so ideal for sport. Does a hunt even kill a adequate number of them or is that were the argument it targets the weak come in? How many would typically be killed in a hunt or is it too hard to say?

There are other sports where the use of animals is questionable but has less stigma. There isn't a serious campaign to ban horse racing for example even though it seems to me that causes pain to the horses involved and a number of them die whilst racing....
Pre ban most foxes escaped the hunt unless they were old, sick or full of mange and typically the hunt lasted 20 minutes. There is an argument that hunting was effective because it moved the fox population on to other areas but I think the cash farmers get paid has more to do with it

RizzyKing 10-05-2017 23:09
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
All i know is since it was banned foxes are a pain in the backside in our town and we've had a few incidents of foxes biting both adults and kids eating food outdoors. The biggest thing hunting did was make foxes scared of dogs and people and thus they avoided urban areas more. I don't support shooting them as while it kills a lot more then hunting a hell of a lot of them are not clean kills the fox can take hours to die from some of the shots at a level of pain worse then any hunt, lot more cruel then traditional hunts.

BenMcr 11-05-2017 09:50
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
I doubt very much that foxes in cities has anything to do with what is happening in the country, or bringing back country fox hunting will change the urban population

https://www.newscientist.com/article...an-we-thought/

papa smurf 11-05-2017 09:55
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 35898382)
I doubt very much that foxes in cities has anything to do with what is happening in the country, or bringing back country fox hunting will change the urban population

https://www.newscientist.com/article...an-we-thought/
well of course it won't but they have to put up some rubbish to justify a days jolly .

RizzyKing 11-05-2017 21:04
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
I live in a countryside town and when the hunts were regular we never had an issue with foxes since the ban more and more foxes have come into the town so you might think hunting was no more then a jolly for toffs but it was more out in the countryside including jobs. Hey show me a better more humane way of dealing with them and I'll go along with that but shooting and poison isn't the way to go.

papa smurf 11-05-2017 21:38
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
we have foxes in my street we don't bother them and they don't bother us we have all learned not to leave bin bags outside of the wheelie bin there not steeling babies or making the fair sex swoon we also have a large cat population they aint that bothered about foxes either ,so in short they aren't trying to kill me so i see no point in killing them .

TheDaddy 12-05-2017 01:22
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35898436)
I live in a countryside town and when the hunts were regular we never had an issue with foxes since the ban more and more foxes have come into the town so you might think hunting was no more then a jolly for toffs but it was more out in the countryside including jobs. Hey show me a better more humane way of dealing with them and I'll go along with that but shooting and poison isn't the way to go.
How about snaring them, nothing inhumane about gnawing your own foot of or slowly being strangled to death.

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35898438)
we have foxes in my street we don't bother them and they don't bother us we have all learned not to leave bin bags outside of the wheelie bin there not steeling babies or making the fair sex swoon we also have a large cat population they aint that bothered about foxes either ,so in short they aren't trying to kill me so i see no point in killing them .
Your cat population might be even larger without the foxes.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ions-cats.html

RizzyKing 12-05-2017 02:30
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Hardly humane snaring is as bad as shooting I'm no fan of the social side that went with hunting but it did have a practical benefit.

TheDaddy 12-05-2017 06:01
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35898458)
Hardly humane snaring is as bad as shooting I'm no fan of the social side that went with hunting but it did have a practical benefit.
That just leaves setting your eagle owl on them then, doesn't sound massively humane either does it (btw there was a heavy hint of sarcasm in my last post, gnawing your own foot of because it's caught in a snare is truly horrific, as is a slow lingering death riddled with pellets)

TheDaddy 15-02-2018 09:11
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Another child attacked

"I felt sick, I had phoned RSPCA twice. It killed a cat the night before.

"If it was a dog, that dog would be put down. I don't see no difference in a fox, OK it's wildlife.

"It's attacked a child and they're still not taking it."

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/new...nt-fox-1216052

And still morons feed them...

richard s 15-02-2018 19:42
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
If it was a human doing this they would just go to jail!

TheDaddy 04-07-2019 08:09
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Jeremy Hunt is going to repeal the ban if he can get a majority he claims, I doubt he'll get that majority but it's outrageous more time in parliament is going ti be wasted on this

Maggy 04-07-2019 08:12
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
He's getting desperate.

Mr K 04-07-2019 09:40
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Bring back the death penalty and corporal punishment will be next ! Along with a tax on vegetarian food and anyone with a beard....

nomadking 04-07-2019 09:54
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
The ban was only introduced because of over £1m in donations to Labour from the Political Animal Lobby.
Link
Quote:
The Labour Party has come under further attack after admitting receiving an extra payment from an anti-hunting group.
Quote:
The party said the Political Animal Lobby (PAL), which made a £1m donation to Labour before the general election in 1997, donated an additional £100,000 last year.
Cash for Answers and not the only case.

A lot of Parliamentary time was wasted on it.

There was a case, where before the ban, a local hunt stopped hunting in a certain area after a request by the RSPB. The result was that the fox population increased dramatically and decimated the nesting birds on the coastal area.

---------- Post added at 09:54 ---------- Previous post was at 09:49 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36001339)
Bring back the death penalty and corporal punishment will be next ! Along with a tax on vegetarian food and anyone with a beard....
Soya has to be imported and so should have a "green" tax applied to it. It's not environmentally friendly shipping it across the Atlantic.

Mr K 04-07-2019 10:23
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Making socks compulsory for anyone who dares to wear sandals? I'd vote for that and so would the Tory faithful ;)

tweetiepooh 04-07-2019 10:39
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
I'd simply tax socks. But our climate isn't suited to sandals or barefoot through the year - most uncivilised.

papa smurf 04-07-2019 10:45
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36001348)
I'd simply tax socks. But our climate isn't suited to sandals or barefoot through the year - most uncivilised.
But according to climatologists it will be soon;)

tweetiepooh 04-07-2019 10:48
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36001349)
But according to climatologists it will be soon;)
True - but mostly underwater so flippers?!

ianch99 04-07-2019 11:26
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36001323)
Jeremy Hunt is going to repeal the ban if he can get a majority he claims, I doubt he'll get that majority but it's outrageous more time in parliament is going ti be wasted on this
Pure unadulterated populism*. He knows that the majority of the country is against the repeal of the current ban on fox hunting.



*in this case, a corrupted form of populism where the "populace" is small in number and have very strange views ..

papa smurf 04-07-2019 11:40
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36001356)
Pure unadulterated populism*. He knows that the majority of the country is against the repeal of the current ban on fox hunting.



*in this case, a corrupted form of populism where the "populace" is small in number and have very strange views ..
If your a liberal undemocracpot they might look strange.

Pierre 04-07-2019 11:58
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36001339)
Bring back the death penalty and corporal punishment will be next ! Along with a tax on vegetarian food and anyone with a beard....
I'd vote for the last one

ianch99 04-07-2019 12:50
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36001357)
If your a liberal undemocracpot they might look strange.
Don't be stupid. Anyone who thinks their own party is expendable to get Brexit done is strange ..

Maggy 04-07-2019 16:49
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Shall we discuss the proposal in an adult manner please and talk about Brexit and the Tory leadership in the correct threads.

Paul 04-07-2019 17:59
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36001339)
Bring back the death penalty and corporal punishment will be next ! Along with a tax on vegetarian food and anyone with a beard....
.. and the problem with these is ?

Sephiroth 05-07-2019 11:00
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Fox hunting originated for a reason: there was/is no natural predator and so they could ravage farms as they pleased.

Clearly it morphed into an amusement session for the hunters and, I suspect, that is the main objection that the detractors have.

Personally, I can't see anything wrong with fox hunting, but if that is banned (which it is) there needs to be some other permitted population control measure.

BenMcr 05-07-2019 11:14
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36001459)
but if that is banned (which it is) there needs to be some other permitted population control measure.
There already are:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/foxes-mo...ty-from-damage

TheDaddy 05-07-2019 12:20
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36001469)
Snares are horrific but because it's not posh people laying them they're an acceptable form of pest control

Damien 05-07-2019 12:52
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36001482)
Snares are horrific but because it's not posh people laying them they're an acceptable form of pest control
I don't think chasing them with dogs is especially humane or that effective either. I don't buy the class aspect, no way would this be legal if it was inner-city kids chasing foxes with dogs and bikes.

TheDaddy 05-07-2019 14:09
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36001493)
I don't think chasing them with dogs is especially humane or that effective either. I don't buy the class aspect, no way would this be legal if it was inner-city kids chasing foxes with dogs and bikes.
Really, you don't buy Tony Banks standing up in parliament in the night of the vote shouting "that showed the toffs". Hunting is relatively effective at moving fox populations on as up until the ban when they had to shoot them they only really caught the really old or really ill foxes and hunting should be more humane than gnawing your own paw of coz it's stuck in a snare

---------- Post added at 14:09 ---------- Previous post was at 14:07 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36001459)
Fox hunting originated for a reason: there was/is no natural predator and so they could ravage farms as they pleased.
Eagle Owls and Golden eagles are the natural predator of the fox

pip08456 05-07-2019 14:38
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36001506)


---------- Post added at 14:09 ---------- Previous post was at 14:07 ----------



Eagle Owls and Golden eagles are the natural predator of the fox
Quote:
in Britain, cubs are killed by golden eagles and badgers, and elsewhere by several other predators.
Link

As we know there are plenty of Golden Eagles to keep the fox population down.

TheDaddy 05-07-2019 14:50
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36001509)
Link

As we know there are plenty of Golden Eagles to keep the fox population down.
Funnily enough if you watch the hunts going out you'll sometimes see a big old bird being carried out with them to finish of the fox rather than a dog but you knew that didn't you

papa smurf 05-07-2019 15:09
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36001511)
Funnily enough if you watch the hunts going out you'll sometimes see a big old bird being carried out with them to finish of the fox rather than a dog but you knew that didn't you
An opera singer?

TheDaddy 05-07-2019 15:34
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36001516)
An opera singer?
Not that big

richard s 05-07-2019 20:19
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36001459)
Fox hunting originated for a reason: there was/is no natural predator and so they could ravage farms as they pleased.

Clearly it morphed into an amusement session for the hunters and, I suspect, that is the main objection that the detractors have.

Personally, I can't see anything wrong with fox hunting, but if that is banned (which it is) there needs to be some other permitted population control measure.
Hydrogen Bomb should do it.

Hugh 05-07-2019 21:44
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richard s (Post 36001544)
Hydrogen Bomb should do it.
Too much collateral damage (especially in London...).

Maggy 06-07-2019 08:43
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
This thread is in danger of becoming a chat thread..Let's discuss the topic.

Sephiroth 06-07-2019 09:56
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Let’s turn this on its head.

Say the beagles are turned loose into the wild. They breed, grow in population, etc. They are social animals and become the natural predator of the Fox.

What are we gonna do? Hunt beagles? Cull beagles?

So really this boils pretty much down to a class thing where some people deprecate the enjoyment by others of the hunt.

papa smurf 06-07-2019 10:14
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36001592)
Let’s turn this on its head.

Say the beagles are turned loose into the wild. They breed, grow in population, etc. They are social animals and become the natural predator of the Fox.

What are we gonna do? Hunt beagles? Cull beagles?

So really this boils pretty much down to a class thing where some people deprecate the enjoyment by others of the hunt.
More importantly why aren't there any fox poo bins in the park.

Mr K 06-07-2019 10:37
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36001598)
More importantly why aren't there any fox poo bins in the park.
More importantly, a thousand other things, eg. the record use of food banks. .... Whether pro or anti hunting the fact that these politicians see it as a major policy issue is ludicrous. It matters to 0.01% of the population who have nothing else to worry about apart from their own 'entertainment'.

Chris 06-07-2019 12:27
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36001604)
More importantly, a thousand other things, eg. the record use of food banks. .... Whether pro or anti hunting the fact that these politicians see it as a major policy issue is ludicrous. It matters to 0.01% of the population who have nothing else to worry about apart from their own 'entertainment'.
Makes the inordinate amount of time given over to enacting the ban in the first place all the more puzzling, eh?

TheDaddy 06-07-2019 13:31
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36001622)
Makes the inordinate amount of time given over to enacting the ban in the first place all the more puzzling, eh?
Tony bliar and his government spent 700 hours debating fox hunting in parliament apparently, they spent seven hours debating the invasion of Iraq, it's criminal and I'll be kind of annoyed if one more minute of parliamentary time is spent on fox hunting

---------- Post added at 13:31 ---------- Previous post was at 13:29 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36001592)
Let’s turn this on its head.

Say the beagles are turned loose into the wild. They breed, grow in population, etc. They are social animals and become the natural predator of the Fox.

What are we gonna do? Hunt beagles? Cull beagles?

So really this boils pretty much down to a class thing where some people deprecate the enjoyment by others of the hunt.
Crazy thing is many many more foxes are being killed now, iirc one hunt killed more on the first day of hunting post ban than they did the whole previous year combined, some might say it's less cruel now but fox hunting shouldn't have been that cruel, 20 minutes was the average hunt length and one dog doing the kill instantly, not saying they were all like that just that they should've been, now we have so many foxes being killed scentless vixens are having to leave lairs because the male hasn't returned and being shot to leaving the cubs to starve and to cap it all most hunts pre ban never even caught anything, seemed to me a lot of people formed an opinion without acquainting themselves with facts and the subsiquent knee jerk legislation reflects that

Mobes 12-07-2019 21:06
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Typical nonsense of the pro hunters who try and have it both ways

'Best and least cruel form of pest control' in one breath

'We don't normally catch anything anyway' in another.

TheDaddy 13-07-2019 01:47
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobes (Post 36002304)
Typical nonsense of the pro hunters who try and have it both ways

'Best and least cruel form of pest control' in one breath

'We don't normally catch anything anyway' in another.
Yeah, if only I was pro hunting :rolleyes:

Pierre 13-07-2019 07:45
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Although is was a class war decision and sod all to do with the welfare of the Fox, it’s done now and has been for some time. Best to leave it.

Sephiroth 13-07-2019 10:10
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
But I like winding up the anti-hunting lobby.

ianch99 13-07-2019 10:26
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36002326)
But I like winding up the anti-hunting lobby.
Each to their own but the reality is that as society develops & progresses, previous lines in the sand are moved as the consensus from the population changes. This is inevitable.

Most people believe that fox hunting is such an activity over said line and so the pro-hunting advocates just have to deal with that I am afraid. Any reintroduction would be very undemocratic and as such would be, obviously, opposed by the Leave supporting folks where democracy is at the core of their argument.

pip08456 13-07-2019 11:47
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36002327)
Each to their own but the reality is that as society develops & progresses, previous lines in the sand are moved as the consensus from the population changes. This is inevitable.

Most people believe that fox hunting is such an activity over said line and so the pro-hunting advocates just have to deal with that I am afraid. Any reintroduction would be very undemocratic and as such would be, obviously, opposed by the Leave supporting folks where democracy is at the core of their argument.
Really??? I wasn't aware we'd had a referendum on fox hunting.

papa smurf 13-07-2019 11:51
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36002333)
Really??? I wasn't aware we'd had a referendum on fox hunting.
if we did the losing side would say we didn't know what we were voting for so we must have a peoples vote.

Mobes 13-07-2019 12:43
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
I’m sure there would be a bus somewhere that would say ‘£350 million for the RSPCA!’ Or 2 million Turkish foxes will flood the UK and that would be bullshit too!

Carth 13-07-2019 13:58
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Is fox hunting a sport, or a benefit to rural communities? *








* asking for a friend who is also confused about Badger baiting and Hare coursing ;)

Mobes 13-07-2019 14:03
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Neither!

Angua 13-07-2019 14:21
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
In answer to the thread title.. No.

I am with Oscar Wilde on this "The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable".

ianch99 13-07-2019 14:28
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36002333)
Really??? I wasn't aware we'd had a referendum on fox hunting.
Yes, really. Did you not get the invite?

richard s 13-07-2019 21:38
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
When we have wiped all the animals out what will the hunters do then! hunt people for their blood lust.

Maggy 13-07-2019 22:14
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Again,topic?

tweetiepooh 15-07-2019 13:54
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by richard s (Post 36002448)
When we have wiped all the animals out what will the hunters do then! hunt people for their blood lust.
Good hunters don't kill everything. They keep to quotas and often are very attuned to the natural conditions. Why? Because they want to keep hunting.

ianch99 15-07-2019 14:51
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36002743)
Good hunters don't kill everything. They keep to quotas and often are very attuned to the natural conditions. Why? Because they want to keep hunting.
What is a "good" hunter in the context of fox hunting?

This whole area is a fascinating subject. The majority of the population, in principle, object to citizens being allowed to inhumanely kill wild animals. You add the fact that most of those doing this are part of the wealthy elite then it seals the deal.

Even if those doing this were from all parts of society this would still be objected by the majority of the population.

Let me pose this scenario: if you went walking in the country with your family dog and it ran off. You later discover it was ripped to shreds by a pack of dogs leds by people hunting on horseback. Would you have a problem with this?

It highlights the fragility of the moral & practical justification of said activity. If you support blood sports then you cannot argue against hunting urban cats with dogs, or the import of bullfighting from Spain or the reimposition of bear baiting. The list goes on.

This ship has sailed ..

richard s 15-07-2019 19:36
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
No such thing as good hunters just killers.

Sephiroth 15-07-2019 19:48
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36002750)
What is a "good" hunter in the context of fox hunting?

This whole area is a fascinating subject. The majority of the population, in principle, object to citizens being allowed to inhumanely kill wild animals. You add the fact that most of those doing this are part of the wealthy elite then it seals the deal.

Even if those doing this were from all parts of society this would still be objected by the majority of the population.

Let me pose this scenario: if you went walking in the country with your family dog and it ran off. You later discover it was ripped to shreds by a pack of dogs leds by people hunting on horseback. Would you have a problem with this?

It highlights the fragility of the moral & practical justification of said activity. If you support blood sports then you cannot argue against hunting urban cats with dogs, or the import of bullfighting from Spain or the reimposition of bear baiting. The list goes on.

This ship has sailed ..
If I turn this on its head (as I did in an earlier post) and consider that the said pack of dogs were wild and behaving naturally, then ripping a fox to shreds, would you have a problem with this?

ianch99 15-07-2019 19:51
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36002802)
If I turn this on its head (as I did in an earlier post) and consider that the said pack of dogs were wild and behaving naturally, then ripping a fox to shreds, would you have a problem with this?
Are you discussing events in the natural food chain where predators either being positioned through conventional means or through human intervention? If so no ..

I would question, however, why there are wild packs of dogs roaming the countryside ..

jfman 15-07-2019 19:51
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36002802)
If I turn this on its head (as I did in an earlier post) and consider that the said pack of dogs were wild and behaving naturally, then ripping a fox to shreds, would you have a problem with this?
At least in that case human involvement wouldn't have been a deciding factor.

ianch99 15-07-2019 19:54
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36002804)
At least in that case human involvement wouldn't have been a deciding factor.
It would be although indirectly. The said pack of wild dogs would not be the normal apex predator in our countryside ..

richard s 16-07-2019 20:38
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
No it is the the things dressed-up in funny clothes and riding lovely animals which are really the pack of animals.

Mr K 17-07-2019 07:25
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Why can't they hunt cats instead? Plenty of support for that.....

Maggy 17-07-2019 07:52
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36002970)
Why can't they hunt cats instead? Plenty of support for that.....

:bsmack:

Mr K 17-07-2019 08:19
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Cats are evil, just kill things for the fun of it, they have a lot in common with the Fox hunters. They deserve each other. At least foxes kill to eat.

papa smurf 17-07-2019 08:27
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36002979)
Cats are evil, just kill things for the fun of it, they have a lot in common with the Fox hunters. They deserve each other. At least foxes kill to eat.

ianch99 17-07-2019 08:45
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36002970)
Why can't they hunt cats instead? Plenty of support for that.....
Troublemaker ;)

TheDaddy 26-12-2021 21:17
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Parliament are going to discuss trail hunting and it's possible banning, furious, over 700 hours already devoted to this subject and it's still not enough, what the hell are these people paid for

Paul 26-12-2021 22:09
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
what the hell are these people paid for
To discuss things properly ?

TheDaddy 26-12-2021 23:18
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36107107)
To discuss things properly ?
You don't think 700 hours is enough to discuss things properly and legislate accordingly?

Paul 27-12-2021 00:03
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Clearly its not.

TheDaddy 27-12-2021 00:38
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36107111)
Clearly its not.
29 full days isn't enough, doesn't sound like value for money to me :spin:

Paul 27-12-2021 03:00
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
I'd rather they spend 29 days, think everything through, and (maybe) get it right, rather than rush it through in 0.29 days, and make a complete mess of it (we've seen how well that goes with a certain virus).

TheDaddy 27-12-2021 03:41
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36107116)
I'd rather they spend 29 days, think everything through, and (maybe) get it right, rather than rush it through in 0.29 days, and make a complete mess of it (we've seen how well that goes with a certain virus).
But they haven't got it right and when you consider more time has been spent on this than other more important decisions like going to war it makes the time wasted even more nonsensical imo

I was listening to David Lammy earlier and I'm not sure I've ever been less impressed with a politician, he'd done no real research of his own but didn't for a moment let that stop him having a strong opinion on the subject.

Paul 27-12-2021 04:45
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36107118)
But they haven't got it right
Ummm, you were complaing they havent made a decision yet (still talking) so how can it be right or wrong ?

TheDaddy 27-12-2021 05:16
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36107119)
Ummm, you were complaing they havent made a decision yet (still talking) so how can it be right or wrong ?
They have made a decision and took 700 hours to come to that decision and now because they don't like the law that decision enabled they're going to waste more time discussing it further, I suppose you can take solace in if they're discussing this they're not locking us down, wonder if they can sniff votes at the end of it

papa smurf 27-12-2021 16:33
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Moment Wiltshire hunt supporters and animal right activists trade punches in furious scenes as traditional Boxing Day ride turns into terrifying fight

Tally ho!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hit-Covid.html

ianch99 27-12-2021 18:10
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36107121)
They have made a decision and took 700 hours to come to that decision and now because they don't like the law that decision enabled they're going to waste more time discussing it further, I suppose you can take solace in if they're discussing this they're not locking us down, wonder if they can sniff votes at the end of it
I think the main reason for the prevarication, despite the overwhelming support for the ban, is that the people who enjoy the killing of animals for pleasure have a lot of power of those that govern us. Who do the MP's support, the people who pay them or the people really pay them?

TheDaddy 28-12-2021 12:37
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36107164)
I think the main reason for the prevarication, despite the overwhelming support for the ban, is that the people who enjoy the killing of animals for pleasure have a lot of power of those that govern us. Who do the MP's support, the people who pay them or the people really pay them?
That might be why it's Labour leading the way with the latest campaign but I don't think they're being honest either, they're being happily led by the nose by a powerful lobby group because they want to "stick it to the toffs" again, they don't know what they're talking about if Davis Lammy is anything to go by

BenMcr 28-12-2021 12:51
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
My understanding is that there has been a constant and high percentage majority in surveys since the fox hunting ban came in to keep it.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...remain-illegal

However if those in high profile positions aren't complying with the trail hunting rules it does need to be reviewed as to whether a complete ban is how needed

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...pay-3-500.html

Quote:
A prominent huntsman has been ordered to pay £3,500 for giving advice to countrymen about how to covertly carry out illegal fox hunts.

Mark Hankinson, the 60-year-old director of the Masters of Foxhounds Association, was found guilty at Westminster Magistrates' Court of encouraging or assisting others to commit an offence.

Paul 28-12-2021 16:35
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Banning trial hunting because some people abuse it seems very much like "stick it to them" nonsense.

Its like wanting to ban streaming TV because some people abuse it to watch stuff illegally.

Carth 28-12-2021 16:37
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
The laws concerning hard drugs are working well too ;)

BenMcr 28-12-2021 16:54
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36107242)
Banning trial hunting because some people abuse it seems very much like "stick it to them" nonsense.

Its like wanting to ban streaming TV because some people abuse it to watch stuff illegally.
For me there is no need for trail hunting to exist anymore. Trail hunting keeps the dogs following animal scents. Although I can see why this would have been helpful for dogs already trained at the point of the ban, there isn't a need for it now.

Drag hunting was already a thing before the fox hunting ban but doesn't use an animal scent and from my understanding rarely ends up with the dogs going after animals.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-11-24/...nd-is-it-legal

So if the argument is about the historical traditions and social aspects of the hunts rather than the animals bring chased, then drag hunting achieves those aims.

Paul 28-12-2021 16:59
Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36107250)
For me there is no need for trail hunting to exist anymore.
For me there is no need for many things to exist, it doesnt mean I go around trying to ban them.


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