Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

The point being made by TheNorm was about those people who actually BUY this stuff as opposed to those who might pick up a copy and glance at it. It appears that the figures you quote for this extra readership are only estimates provided by the companies who produce the stuff - not exactly unbiased then. Also how many of these people actively seek out stuff like the McCann stuff as opposed to just reading the sports pages and looking at the naughty pics ?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

From ABC, the independent measuring body, actually. :)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Hmmmm that's not exaclty what your first post stated though is it ? ;)


"Total of 8,345,380 copies purchased, and it is estimated by the newspapers that at least two other people reads a purchased copy, gives you nearly 25 million readers of the tabloids - over 40% of the UK population is not a smallish proportion, imho."

If there were no McCann type stories for a month of Sundays these people would still buy their rags.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

There's a job I woudn't mind!

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Since the last hour or so, we had no Press releases from the McCanns, entertain yourselves by looking of some nice pictures of the murder/abduction/accident scene....

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

If people refused to buy these rags there would be no "McCann type" stories.

Remember what happened after Hillsborough in 1989?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

The McCanns are back on the news. They are driving to their solicitors. You can see a photo of Kate McCann here plus full analysis of the trip. A brief bio of their QC can be found here. Please donate generously, the McCanns might lose their house: link.
Their arrival at the Kingsley Napley will be covered live on Sky News, VM viewers will see FA...

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

In one city with an unparallelled ability to hold a grudge. A mass boycott of the Press would be impossibly difficult to orchestrate in almost any other circumstances.

Unfortunately!

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

The McCanns are close to signing Phil Hall, the former NoTW editor, as their PR guru. He is the PR guy of Lady Mucka, Heather Mills. He is the guy, that in his zenith, filmed Newcastle's Chairman Freddy Shepherd in a Spanish bordelo, what a top piece of journalism that was. He also taped Dallaglio, claiming to be a drug dealer...

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Honesty and integrity are his by words then!

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

He was on R4 this morning making very sympathetic noises about the way the McCanns are being scrutinized by the Press. Given his track record I reckon he'll do well for them.

This thread is getting as bad as a 24-hour rolling news channel!

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

...and now over to Veronica for the weather....

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

That's the standard expected by a NoTW editor! :rofl: But Daily mail reports that Cuddle Cat is going to the lawyers too see photo at the middle of the page

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

:rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 14:17 ---------- Previous post was at 14:16 ----------

Why dont they use cheaper lawyers and not hire a PR guy.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Because their freedom and reputation are at stake.......

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

But surely if the evidence is a bad as Team McCann says it is, if the police work has been as shoddy as as is clained, if the portuguese police are clutching at straws, then even Ronald McDonalad should be able to get them off.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Exactly.

Their Portuguese lawyer is top notch and nowhere near as expensive as Caplan (He acted for dictator Augusto Pinochet). There is NO need for British lawyer.

They need to shut the hell up and get on with it.

Did the Robert Murat have a PR guy?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

If I felt I was in danger of an unsafe conviction and imprisonment in a foreign country, I don't think I'd take the chance.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Would you risk your freedom and reputation on that premise? I wouldn't.

Oops, beaten to it by Chris..............

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Assuming they go to trial in Portugal (and the Portuguese want to send them down even if they are innocent), I am then assuming the jury would be Portuguese. Are they planning a PR campaign in Portugal. If not then its irrelevant what people in the UK think as they will not be on the jury.

Or are the lawyers and PR there for them not to be extradited, if they are charged and asked to stand trial.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

That's probably true but sadly Sky News is rapidly becoming TV's tabloid equivalent. Another topic I know but I've never missed Sky's dubious output since the VM v. Sky row.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

In either country it is going to be difficult to find an appropriate jury that has not been biased / influenced by the media. I'd probably be a good candidate as I can't pick up a copy of the Sun, Mirror, Mail etc on the Subway and press coverage over here is minimal.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Although I didn't hear any mention of his possible new role I wonder if this is the same guy I heard on TV today (ex NOTW Editor) who was bemoaning the adverse coverage the McCanns are getting? Apparently standards have fallen because in his time all stories were thoroughly checked and sources verified before anything went to print..... Course they were, course they were... :rolleyes:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

It's amazing: News Corp mis-spelt Phil Hall's name as "Phill Hall" and you could see typo in the Sun, Times, Sky News, Fox News to name a few (Some of the typos have been corrected since then)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Does Portugal have a jury system? In many countries the guilty/not guilty verdict is handed out by the judge (or a panel of judges for more severe crimes).

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

It's all another example of the horrible excuse for a press we have in this country. None the less they are only appealing to what people want. If everyone was truly disgusted with their output they would not buy the paper.

They are setting up and knocking down the McCanns, it's why you should not evolve emotion in such a case. The entire country went on a press-led emotional frenzy and that seems to now be turning into a backlash.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

That depends on why those people buy those papers. If they simply like, for example, the sports content they're not going to give a damn about the latest McCann stories elsewhere. I think a lot of people buy these rags out of habit almost as much as anything else and when this McCann business is ancient history they'll still be buying the same old rubbish.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I'm not 100% but I think the accused can request for a trial by jury and there are more than one judge sitting on the case

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Most likely your correct. Especially the habit that people get into.

---------- Post added at 16:07 ---------- Previous post was at 15:41 ----------

LOL. Look at the type of pictures the Daily Mail now choses for the McCanns.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...e_id=1770&ct=5

A far cry from the more positive pictures they put up

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Oh my god NOOOOO the press are turning on the mc'canns gees never saw that coming. Come on people this was always going to happen how can anyone act shocked. As for hiring a PR guy sorry but i always associate PR with covering up something bad or putting a spin on something so hiring one doesn't make me think anything good. While i will not join the "they did it" brigade their actions at times are not those i automatically think yes they are innocent.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Not sure if this is true, but if it is, then it's hardly fair from those who were claiming the McCanns were being smeared.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

i think its also a bit of payback from the newspapers aswell.

When it was first announced the mccan's used the press to get as much coverage to try and find their daughter (as im sure every parent would)

But now that it turns out that they could have been involved all along, im sure some of the editors are going to have bad feelings towards them as they would feel like they have been used.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Will wait for that to be comfirmed Damien before i comment on that.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Maybe it's time to rename this thread now :)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Not sure it's something to grin about?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I can't believe that a thread I started 4 months ago is still going (Is this a recored for a single topic thread)

Anyhow Innocent until proven guilty,

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Why?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Rename it to what until the mc'canns or someone else is found guilty of murder or manslaughter she is still presumed to be abducted.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

the title is fine :confused:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I would have thought 'Madeline 'abducted' during holiday' would be a better title being as we now know her name, but otherwise until facts prove otherwise...

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Richard Branson’s £100,000 to defend McCanns
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2461207.ece

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I don't get that.. Why would a high-profile campaign make them suspicious? Surely if they murdered her, they would want to sweep it quietly under the rug.

I can't put my finger on what made me seem suspicious in the first place...

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Well there's loads of things isn't there... the way the McCann's acted (but how are they supposed to act?) The fact the abductor took her from in between the twins, the lack of evidence of another person, the list goes on, and all adds up to why people aren't sure about this at all.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Plus the fact she seems to have simply vanished? I can't remember the last time I heard a story of a kidnapped child who was not heard of again.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Yet Richard Branson is "convinced" they are innocent. Does he normally give £100k to suspects in criminal cases, or is this a one-off?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2461207.ece

.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Perhaps he thinks he's got a better chance of saving their reputation than he has of saving VM's ;)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

They are innocent, as they have not been proven guilty. From your link:

I remember this case, it was heartbreaking. I don't remember "trial by tabloid" for the parents. Perhaps things have changed in the past 16 years.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

When or if the parents are proven inoccent i hope the pitchfork holders feel horrible and rot in a big pile of foot and mouth cow pats :(

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I wouldn't hold your breath.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

A little boy was kidnapped in Cos a few yeas ago.

Also a girl disapeared in Portugal years before Maddie

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Missingkids

Choose UK and 10 years (children missing in the last 10 years, and still missing) - it comes up with 88.

Heartbreaking.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

And if the opposite is found true?

I do not have an opinion on if they are guilty of the death/disappearance of Maddie . Will wait till then conclusion

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I am sure the nay-sayers will have great joy in pointing it out. :dozey:

I don't know if it was them or not, but I am, still, a great believer in "innocent until proven guilty" - must be the lefty liberal wet commie do-gooder in me........ ;)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I said when or if ,, how can there be an opposite ?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

well the opposite to the pitchfork holders maybe eating a lorry load of humble pie maybe?

Ive never liked the parents guilty or innocent of any crime my feelings towards them has been constant.IMO they were always guilty of negligence.I do not know if they are also guilty of manslaughter/murder I will let the law and the police prove that or not

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Yes I agree "innocent until proven guilty" in the eyes of the law.
Its the lefty liberal wet commie do-gooder in you that has a problem with people expressing an opinion. ;)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Hi Zeph, How would you like them to feel, l as a parent would not like to go through, what they have gone through, and still going through hell, as Maddie is still missing, and for once l applaud what Sir Richard Branson is doing by donating £100.000 to a fund to help the McCanns legal fight, all round the world, children go missing each day, wether or not they go of there own accord or they are abducted, there should be an organisation which is set up and is WELL PUBLICISED, FREE TV/MEDIA, to get children back to there loved ones, l know there are organisations out there that depend on charities, but to me this is not good enough, and l trust and hope that with the Maddie situation. this now takes paramount importance, and maybe Virgin / Sky / BBC / ITV will allow FREE say Half and hour airtime for a programme, for this sort of programme.:)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

They are not innocent or guilty, they are presumed innocent.
Why is Branson convinced they are innocent? Does he know something we don't?
Very philanthropic of him I'm sure. So as I said in my earlier post, how many other innocent people has he helped? Ian Huntley? Harold Shipman? Doesn't everbody, no matter who they are, deserve a fair hearing?

.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Didn't several thousand people sign a petition demanding that social services investigate the McCann's (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/l...re/6740315.stm)? Doesn't sound like a presumption of innocence to me!

Both examples had a fair hearing, with the vast majority of the facts published during and after the trial. The way the McCann's are being treated can hardly be called a fair hearing.

As for Sir Richard's motives for giving the money, I have no idea. The fact that he might be spending his money selectively shouldn't matter.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

What about all of their friends they were with? They all did the same with their own kids so why shouldn't they be investigated too?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Yes but they'll have done that in respect of the McCanns leaving their young children unattended in a manner many people deem neglectful. Whatever else has gone on in this sad case, they are guilty of that.

If any of the friends they were holidaying with at the time left their childrwen in similar circumstances I'd argue they have a case to answer also.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Clearly I didn't say it's never happened, just that I couldn't remember the last time I heard anything like it.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

But people are supposed to report suspicions of child abuse... Its upto Social Services to determine their guilt/innocence?

You/the article even said invesitgated no prosecuted.

Not that I disagree with what you're saying about people generally, but in that case I think its a bit harsh.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

By their own admission, they left 3 children under 4 year old alone, in an unlocked, ground floor apartment in a public road. An apartment which they couldn't see from the bar. Quite right (IMO) that social services should investigate.
I agree that the constant "leaks" in the press is turning this issue into a farce, and is deplorable. The problem is, the damage has already been done, and I can't see how throwing money at it (Branson wants to raise a million pounds) will make the trial any fairer.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

While i believe no one should have to go through what they and many other parents are/have gone through.

It is their fault through neglegence so i honestly do not feel sorry for them at all.

I have no respect for parents who neglect their act then act innocent when something happens, they brought it on themself's.

I really feel sorry for the young girl however, as she really was the innocent one in all this.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

This is a very long read, but' it's very interesting. I also feel a bit guilty now

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2459924.ece

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

My neighbour has a huge great dane. She never takes it for walks and lets it run around in the garden. There are lots of times she goes out leaving the dog alone in the house and I can hear it running around, and then smashing its huge frame against the wall. I reported her to the RSPCA for negligence and they subsequently let me know that I had done the right thing as the dog was not being looked after properly.

If any of my neighbours were leaving their kids alone frequently while they were offf wining and dining, I'd have no problems calling Social services then either. The problem in this case is that some people's judgement has been clouded by the fact shes gone missing and that 'the parents have suffered enough'. They, if not guilty of anything else, are guilty of child neglicence, and as a result its too right that social services should be investigating them.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

This part sums it up (imho), and is reflected in this (and other) forum(s).
"with opinion dividing into people who see leaving a child as stupid, but not the world’s greatest crime – such people are broadly sympathetic to the McCanns – and people who find it inexcusable, criminal and indicative of all sorts of dark possibilities."

I believe they (and the other couples) were negligent in leaving the children unattended in the way they did, but have not seen anything that convinces me that they killed their daughter, or deserve to be pilloried and slandered by innuendo this way - I understand that others may disagree, and that is their (and my) privilege.

Another article, which tries to separate fact from speculation
Never mind the facts, this is show-business
"Big Brother and the McCann case are treated by the media in roughly the same fashion"

"You wouldn't know it, but almost nothing new has been said officially about the case, either by the Portuguese police or by the forensic science service in Britain. The facts are: the McCanns were questioned last week, a file has gone to the prosecutor, the British have analysed evidence from the site of the disappearance and sent some results to Portugal. Nearly everything else - the hair in the car, the investigations in the local church, the demands for Cuddle Cat, the diary contents and so on - is speculation, based on unnamed sources. Even the precise meaning of "arguido/a" is unclear."

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Have you read the article Mrmistoff linked to?

---------- Post added at 09:42 ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 ----------

It's a superb read, and I think everyone who has contributed anything to this thread should read every last word of it.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I couldn't agree more with it, and there are plenty of "guilty" people on this forum.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good argument.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Or a witch hunt, some people should remember what goes around, comes around

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Unless you get the best lawyer in the country etc.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

As if by magic. :dozey:

Did you read the article then?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Yes I did. I liked her opinions, but I still have mine.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Read most of the article - it doesn't add much to the debate from where I'm sitting tbh. There are always people with extreme views about everything. There are people who shoot/stab others because they dared to look at them FGS! There are people who'd happily kill/maim others simply because of where they work! Of course extreme minority views tend to get noticed and reported far more than the rest don't they. There's no news in moderation and empathy is there!

Nearly everyone I've chatted to about this story has said the same thing - they sympathise greatly with the McCanns and of course the little girl but still find it hard to understand why they chose to leave their children alone in those circumstances. I don't think that's an extreme view or even a callous one. Furthermore, having that view doesn't preclude anyone from hoping desperately that this story has a happy ending.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

So the best lawyer in the country is going to get involved with faceless people, gossiping on the internet? Cant see it myself

---------- Post added at 10:43 ---------- Previous post was at 10:42 ----------

Neither has most of whats been written here :shrug:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Wow, that's intelligent. You can't make the connection yourself? Would you like me to simplify it just for you? :rolleyes:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

hush child..play nicely with the others.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

True but one of the things which separates humans from the rest is our need to communicate, discuss, express opinions etc - that is how we learn and develop. There's nothing wrong with debating any of this sensibly and the fact that some people will become aggressive and even irrational about it is inevitable sadly.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Now that's what I call patronizing. ;) :rolleyes:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

It's ok, I've been slapped on the wrist for it. :tu: :)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I haven't got round to reading the article yet, but whether I read it or not, I will still be of the same opinion that parents leaving their kids (especially kids who are still very young eg - under 4) alone while they go out should be investigated by social services.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Very interesting.

I think this "blurring between news and gossip" is what makes me feel most uncomfortable.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

While i don't support anyone that is making accusations about their involvement in the death of their daughter that article has done nothing to change my view on the negligence aspect of this case. Also to be honest that article seemed more interested in absolving the press of responsibility in anyway for what is now happening and putting it firmly onto the public. Yes there is wild speculation flying around on some internet sites about this but in fairness the mc'canns themselves are a little to blame for this. Thier initial accounts of events that night have been blurred at best this has opened the way for some to go to town on them.

As for the "havn't they suffered enough" brigade for god's sake when is it going to sink in they are suffering because of a self inflicted injury. Maddie is the only one in this that is totally innocent and it is depressing in the least that she will be the only real sufferer from this incident. It would make my day to turn on the television and see her in the arms of someone taking her to safety but unfortunately that doesn't look like it is going to happen and that and that alone is the only thing that i have any sadness for in this incident.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I agree, again the public responds to the media, that's how it generally works.

The first couple of lines on that article

Now I would disagree with that to some extent. And I don't like the way she's exonerating the media in the article, like they are all blameless (in certain places she even praising them). Rich coming from the media itself.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Of course you've never made a bad decision in your life.

Do you have no compassion for parents that made a bad decision, and will have to live with that for the rest of their lives whilst persons such as yourself continually stick the boot in.

They made a bad decision and they were unlucky in the most extreme way, they are to blame for what happened but they are not bad people or bad parents.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Now we're going back to the start. The question is what is a bad decision? Can you prove what they did was a bad decision, a one off or the norm for them? Would that still fit the bad decision or verge into the neglectful area? Can you prove that they didn't sedate the kids whilst they went out on the razz? Would that still be a bad decision then? None of it so far can be proved, nor disapproved, and therefore it's hard to be defensive on their part just yet.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Well this is exactly the kind of thing that the Times Journo is writing about.

1. I am not, as nor is anyone else, in possession of the facts.

2. I am, however, firstly and foremostly believing that they are innoccent unless otherwise proved, so it is not hard for me to be defensive on their part.

3. I am also making part of my judgement based on what I have seen of their character and that they are both professional people, they wouldn't fit into my profile of neglective parents.

As you say it cannot be proved, and until something is brought out contrary to that, then they will always get the B.O.D from me.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

A bad decision is a one off this wasn't a one off it was every night they were on holiday. Pierre no i don't have compassion for them because where my kids are concerned i never take a chance so i am judging them by my standards shoot me.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

If you cannot prove it either way then the default position should be innocent until proven guilty. You cant disprove a negative so under that logic people would always remain possibly guilty.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

"3. I am also making part of my judgement based on what I have seen of their character and that they are both professional people, they wouldn't fit into my profile of neglective parents" Oh right so professional people cannot be neglectful glad we got that sorted. You do realise how stupid that sounds neglect doesn't have a social or demographic class.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

If they had been a couple of 'chavs' on benefits, on holiday, hitting the clubs everynight whilst leaving their kids in a apartment alone, I bet they'd fit most peoples profiles of being neglective parents.

You cannot say someone is not a neglective parent based on their profession. And yes you might be right in that we dont know how they are with their kids at home, but based on the evidence that they left their kids alone, unsupervised on more than one occassion, (i.e not a one off so you can call it a bad decision or a mistake) I can reach my assumption that they have been neglective and for that I'd have no problem with them being investigated.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Well I read every last word of it, and I could feel my blood pressure rising as I did so!

What a load of (mostly) claptrap. There is so much in that article that I would like to pull apart, that it would last all day.

So, the British newspapers have "acted pretty responsibly" have they. So the front page headlines about the large quantities of hair found in the car, the front page headlines that she was over sedated, the front page headlines that her body was weighed down with stones and dumped at sea, etc. etc. If thats responsible journalism, what would the headlines be if they were irresponsible?

As for criticising Sky News about their "Madeleine McCann" category, what's that box next to your article Ms. Knight? Yes, that's right, the box with the headline "MCCANN FAMILY". The one that says underneath "Madeleine McCann. Full coverage and analysis of the latest twists in the investigation".

She is somehow blaming the general public for the criticism against the McCanns, yet what fuels that criticism? It wouldn't be the newspaper headlines by any chance, would it? It seems to me that the point of this article was just to make the author feel better about herself, and her fellow journalists, and heap all of the blame onto the general public.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I am increasingly reminded of these two well-known commentators upon people with a high public profile:

http://www.tubearoo.com/m1/85059/102869_bruv_1.jpg

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Many things stirred up the current feeling among many and the press definately played a part so if she wants to blame it all on us let her knock herself out.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Of course you know it was every night for a fact don't you?

---------- Post added at 12:28 ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 ----------

ThaI'm not saying that cannot be neglectful, I'm just saying that two doctors I would be suprised at being neglectful.

It doesn't sound stupid to me.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

That fact is not denied and has been confirmed pierre. It was routine for them to leave the kids while they went to the tapas bar.

---------- Post added at 12:30 ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 ----------

No what your saying is if it had been some single mum from a council estate you'd find it easier to believe neglect.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Correct, in fact said Chav would probably leave the kids in the UK by themselves and head of to Majorca

You cannot say for certain, of course not, but you can make a judgement about someones character based on how they present themselves, their profession etc,etc

How many times did they leave the kids alone???

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

and that therefore is prejudiced.

---------- Post added at 12:33 ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 ----------

that is very judgemental and prejudiced and im appalled you would make such a statement. A good education does not me mean you have common sense

I look after my daughter on my own weekends and im not a chav and I live on a council estate and ive took offence at what you have said