Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

No I don't. I discuss them.

This being an ntl-related website, I don't think that's a problem.

If I shoved a link to ntl's website in every single one of my posts, then it arguably might be.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Please...... you're a living promotional campaign for ntl's products. Nevermind I couldn't resist.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

You don't have to be doing anything illegal or even slightly suspect to break the 1GB barrier. A lot of games use wemcams and microphones, that coupled with the game data and your starting to use a fair bit of bandwidth. Now give it 12 months and that game bandwidth will be doubled or possibly even trippled. (or more)

It wasn't that long ago when 1GB was A LOT of data, I remember getting my first 20mb harddisc (not a typo) and thinking WOW I'm never going to fill all that space, I also remember getting Windows on 4 floppy discs, but times change very very quickly, and nowadays 1GB isn't that much at all.

60 minutes of download time.
12% of a DVD
A few game demo's
1/400th of new hard disc.
1 or 2 hours of live video.
20 mins of DVD quality video.

It won't be long until 1GB seems like a floppy disc worth of data, and even the lamest of internet users will be using WAY more than 1GB per day.

Personally I think It's very sad that a major ISP such as NTL are bringing in caps, especially when really cool technologies such as broadband TV are just starting to take off.

The internet was only born yesterday, lets not kill it before it even gets a chance to crawl.

Pete

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

If you search my posts you'll find I'm critical when it's justified.

It's common for anyone who dares to disagree with the anti-cap brigade to be accused of having some sort of agenda.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Same as it's common for the anti-cap brigade to be badged as warez whores :disturbd:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

How can anyone possibly disagree with the 'anti-cap brigade'? Let's get this clear then Scrotnig, you want caps on your broadband service? If you were offered the choice between a capped and an uncapped service, you would choose the capped one in order to help the company supplying it make more money?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Oh come on.. us anti-cappers receive a fair amount of abuse aswell.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

LOL - ok I tell you what, every time you say 'Anti-Cap Brigade' I'll chime in with 'Obsequious NTL Monkey Brigade' and we'll call it quits. :p

You should know my view on capping by now. AFAIC it's pretty much a non issue for the moment.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I'm not disagreeing with you i also think the cap is a bit on the low side, but some people on this forum and i know a few personally in my area are pulling off 10 gig+ in a day every day. Now you canot seriously tell me that someone who is downloading that much traffic every day is totally 100% legit. It is those users that NTL should curtail first and if that means cutting them off then so be it IMO. If it is impacting on other users then something has to give. At the end of the day the cap is coming and no amount of complaining is gonna change that. If some one really needs to download over 10 gig a day then they should either not be on a residential line, or really need to get out a bit more.;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

If you are paying for it you should be able to use the internet any time you want, without NTL or other ******s looking over your back at what you are downloading and how much you are downloading, it's all about money at the end of the day, yes the speeds are good, but if you can't use them to your advantage cus of the Caps that NTL ******s are putting on then whats the point, I am going to find a company that doesn't rely on caps to bring there customers to them even if it means lowering my speeds, lease I can download and upload to my hearts content.

I play Xbox Live all the time when I am at home and I always have my internet connection on, for a very good reason and I should not be bullied into having caps. I pay the money and so I have right's.

NTL ***** you

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Wouldn't be much point seeing as the email service only seems to work 50% of the time... ;)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Not for very long you won't ;)

Can we get back to the subject at hand please and stop discussing each other.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

If a small percentage of users can degrade the service then NTL should spend money on updating its hardware. As each day passes every person that uses the net will use more and more bandwidth, and if they are getting slow downs now then its only going to get a hell of a lot worse as each day passes.

If they are stuggling now due to 5% of the users downloading 10GB then we are probably looking at a company on the slope to bankrupcy.

What if I want to watch a couple of the latest movies, while the kids are playing online games and the wife wants to catch up with episodes of eastenders?

2 Movies @ 1.5Gb each
3 Episodes of eastenders = 2GB
2 games, lets say they use 1GB between them

This totals 6GB, and that's just a few hours of light entertainment in the evening.

This will be a common scene in many households within the next year or two, ALL the film companies and all serious broadcasters are looking at and moving towards video-on-demand and tv-on-demand, even the latest version of divx is geared towards suppling video straight to your DVD player.

http://news.com.com/2100-1032_3-5427731.html
http://www.homechoice.co.uk/our_tv.html
http://www.2wire.com/?p=11

Pete

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I disagree with them. :wavey:

I'm all for caps - I like my service nice and fast, without the 24 x 7 bandwidth hogs who feel the need to download the entire internet each month. Caps are the obvious way to limit such people - and if it drives them away from ntl then even better. :D
__________________

You know - it is perfectly possible to post a point without resorting to swearing and abusive language - you should try it sometime. :dozey:

What rights would that be then ? You have all the rights that that the AUP gives you - which is a capped service if they decide to impose it. ntl are providing the service and can restrict it in anyway they see fit. The only right you have is to leave and find another ISP - and you will find it increasingly difficult to find one that doesn't impose some sort of usage limit.
__________________

Why ? - if you were running a business and a small percentage of customers were using so much resources that they were affecting the rest of your customers, and losing you money, would you spend even more of your profits on them, knowing you won't make any money from them anyway - or would you take steps to reduce their usage, or even get rid of them. I know which I would do.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I couldn't agree more, screw them, I have also been looking at moving from NTL, these caps have made me look at other companies services. I can get uncapped high speed ADSL, a phone line (with better night time rates) and a better TV package for less than NTL are charging me, and I won't have big brother analyzing every byte I choose to download, or telling me when I can and cannot use the service I pay top money for.

I guess I will be taking my £80 per month elsewhere, most companies would chew off there right arm for a customer in my demographic, long term customer, still young and plenty of disposible income.

I must also point out that since my upgrade to 3Mb my connection hasn't been too good at all, I'm not getting full bandwidth speeds when I want them and its also disconnected half a dozen times, even those cheapo ADSL services do better than that LOL.

I've also noticed 8Mb ADSL and ADSL2 is comming soon, what will NTL do then, double the bandwidth and half the quota's.

Pete

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

The fact that your line is capable of 3meg does not mean you will get it - there is a lot of network between you and most sites you will visit - and you will not be the only person trying to download stuff from a server. Many servers themselves are only on 2, 5 or 10 meg links, so more then 3 or 4 people trying to pull stuff from them and you are not going to get full speed.

An 8 meg line is almost completely pointless - there a few servers in the world that could sustain that speed to more than 1 or 2 simultaneous downloads, even assuming the network inbetween is capable.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Then that would be the wrong choice.

As I've pointed out a few times now people are only going to use more and more bandwidth, if they are seeing problems now, then that shows they have a weakness in the network that needs addressing and fixing now.

Yes they could get rid of a couple of users here and there, and a couple more users will join to take their place, and at the same time the general masses bandwidth will also be steadily increasing.

Getting rid of 5% of the userbase now will only decrease their profits, and they will still have a problem with the network and ever worsening capacity issues. And as I touched upon in my last post, what happens in 6 months time when ADSL 4mb and 8Mb is the norm and the have to double the speed again to stay competitive. The network problems will double again, but now they have less income to fix the problem.

They need to spend money on the network and if your connection is slowing down then its not the fault of the 5% club, it NTL's fault, they should be working flat out and upgrading the network now so it can handle 4/8/16/32mb connections tomorrow, blaming the users is just a really lame excuse.

Pete
__________________

Yep I agree, the internet is not setup for wide scale very fast connections, the majority of servers (including all of mine) only have 10mb nics, but I know what server I was connected to and the system is setup to handle fast connections. No the slow downs in this case were on the NTL side, and the disconnections were also instablitly in the NTL systems. I've also seen a lot more packet loss on the NTL routers since the speed increases.

Pete

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

No, it would be the right choice.

People are not necessarily going to use more & more. Having a faster connection does not mean people automatically download more - they download the same as before, only faster.

Erm, do you want to run that one by me again - how exactly does getting rid of customers that are costing you money, decrease your profits ?

No, it's not ntl's fault at all - it's the fault of bandwidth hoggers. That's a bit like blaming the car for having a poor mpg rate when you run out of petrol - when it's really the drivers fault for not filling up, and using it excessivly.

I'm sure if we all lived in that nice fluffy fantasy land where network equipment is free then ntl would jump at the chance to upgrade all their network for the speeds you mention. Sadly, here in the real world, equipment costs money (lots of it), and ntl are not going to spend huge amounts on their network to cater for a few heavy users who are never going to make them any profit.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

So what would you do, your solution would be to get rid of 5% of your highest paying customers each time? Great business practice LOL

Then in 6 months time when they "have to" double the speed again it won't be the "10GB a day" gang at fault it will be a new "10GB a month gang", and 6 months after that when the "have to" double again it will be the the "5Gb a month" gang. Its the classic divide and conquer approach, blame a minority for the problem, then they don't have to spend any money.


Well their competitors are spending the money, and they are upgrading their networks. So its NTL that are living in a nice fluffy fantasy land if they think they can keep doubling the speed of their customer connections and not do the work or reinvest the profits.

I would love to be there in 6 months time when your using your nice 6mb NTL connection, you go to download something and find you can do it faster through a 56kb modem. You know why? because a couple of other users are doing the same thing at the same time, and NTL forgot to invest in new equipment, they decided it would be better to blame the userbase 6 months earlier.

So you use the same bandwidth now as you did when you had a 56kb dialup connection? Get real, the faster it gets the more people use.


I have a really great Idea!

Maybe we should get NTL to run public transport, we could start by banning all fat people from buses, they use up more bus space, we could then get more people on the bus.

Then in 6 months time we could then ban all people over 5 foot, I'm sure we could get more people in if we banned tall people.

Then we could ban the disabled too, they take up more space, and the elderly, they take their time getting on the bus, ban them too.

We could ram everyone on our one bus to maximize our profits.

Then we would have this really really amazing bus service, we all know the problems with the bus service are due to the passengers, everybody knows that, its common knowledge.


Pete

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Why have any cap, after all, we allready have one of the slowest services in the world.
Just look at south Korea 20M service no cap, Japan 50M service no cap. Why do people put up with this BS, this is a competative market, where even BT are now running trials on an 8M service.
If no one bought into a capped rate service, how long would it last?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

With metering around the corner :dozey: I doubt NTL will want to get rid of heavy users at the moment, these are the users that NTL think they are going to milk later in the year,:Yikes: no doubt then they will be encouraging everyone to download to the max regardless of the impact on other users living near them, we may also see speeds going through the roof, just to guarantee that everyone goes over the cap.

It will be funny when the heavy downloaders suddenly become the good guys with NTL sending letters to the users who never go over the cap asking them to change their habits and start using more bandwidth, or else!.

Step by small step the NTL Master Plan is taking shape, the grey suits have it all mapped out, just one more hurdle, how to convince those buggers on Cable Forum that paying NTL a lot more each month is in everyoneââ‚à ƒâ€šÃ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢s best interest, thatââ‚ ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢s the tricky bit. :eh:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Glad you've got it all worked out then eh. :rolleyes:

Do you actually think ntl's senior management sit around all day worrying what a couple of hundred people on an internet forum say? Most of them haven't even heard of the place.

Do try and get real. The company is interested in providing products which the VAST MAJORITY of its customers will buy.

Users of this forum DO NOT have any impact on what they do.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I have just looked on the Carlsberg web site Link and they donââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t do BB. Can anybody tell me of a company that offers a BB service with no cap or fair use policy in their T&C?

If you know of a company that offers a no cap BB service at a reasonable price please advise.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

But people always will because the VAST MAJORITY of people look at 1gb per day and think 'no way will I ever get near that'.

I daresay if you fast forward a few years that might be different, but then ntl and other companies will move with the market.

Just look at how broadband has changed in the LAST three years. Three years ago £30 for 512k was considered an acceptable price...several ISPd were charging £29.99 back then. Imagine charging that much now for that speed.

The market will move, and ISPs such as ntl will move with it.

What nobody is going to do is create low cost services for people who *cough* "download 30 Linux distros a week" because it's simply not cost effective to do so.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Lets hope NTL do move forward. Atm its giant steps backward [apart from upping speed] and trying to copy\upstage BT the rest of the time.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I keep wondering why people keep moaning about NTL's cap and then mention Tiscali in the same breath. Having seen this I'm still none the wiser.
Oh and to make it even funnier Wanado has a 1Mb service for £28 on a 30Gb cap and BT broadband is even better:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

To the person who gave me the rep points with the following comments and i quote "Doesn't matter to ntl what the content is. Also the computers does the downloading not the person." :Yikes: :Yikes: :Yikes: :Yikes: wtf planet are some people on,this has got to be a new argument against capping i have heard it all now. It wasnt me it was the comp it did it all by itself without a single piece of user intervention. i mean please. I did say that some people needed to get out more i rest my case.;) ;) ;) ;)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I have a question reference this quote.... If the "problem" is only a few hundred people out of 1 million users, I really do not think that this something NTL will worry about at all.

My question to all of you is .... do you think ntl will even really bother going thru all this for sub 1000 users as indicated by scrotnig's comments ?

Personally I think not ... there is something else and I will bang my drum ... why cap the download when the upload has more of an effect on the network.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Adios ;)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

If you seriously consider the recent moves to be a giant step backwards, you really do need to find another ISP.
__________________

You have rights? What rights would these be? The right to bugger up the service everyone else? What about everyone else's 'rights'?

You've been watching too many consumer programmes.

I'll remind you and everyone else who shares your view what the ONLY reason a company like ntl is in business for. The ONLY reason, is to make a profit. Users who want to max out their connections consititute the minority, but they cost the company money. In other words, there is no profit in having you on the service. Therefore the only 'right' you have is to the 30 days notice ntl will give you when they terminate your contract, if you continually exceed the bandwidth limit.

Too many people seem to think private companies have some of sort of moral and solcial obligation to do certain things. They don't. Any customer is free to choose another provider if they aren't happy with the one they currently have. That, again, is the capitalist system.

If you don't like the capitalist system, go and live in Russia.
__________________

I could be wrong here, but I read somewhere that it had been established that the cap covered uploads as well. Could be wrong though.....

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I think you missed my point from some posts ago.

If you cap the upload only ... (which ignition said affects some parts of the network currently and ideally), you would really be getting at the people that really affect the network eg the kazaa kids. By capping them and dealing with them it would give 2 things.... highlight the ones using for potentially violating the AUP and thus providing proof to the organisations riaa/mpaa/bsa that something has and is being actively managed.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

That's an excellent idea, as ntl operate at a nominal 20:1 contention ratio maybe all users should be hard capped so they get what they pay for and no more. Hit 1.5GB a day on 3M 1GB/day 2M and your service disappears for the rest of the day.
Thanks for that suggestion.
P.S. you don't need an apostrophe ' to pluralise.

Damn, in that case I suppose pretty much every other ISP in the world is on the way to bankruptcy as well, infact any ISP that has ever taken action against heavy users or applied caps to their service. As they won't upgrade to accomodate a tiny % of the userbase wanting to download like hell must be on the brink.

Blimey... find me a family that actually does that. Find me a couple of online games that use 500MB each over the course of an evening.

If this is daily use it's insane. I think most people still generally use the TV, tend to catch up with EastEnders on the omnibus edition or the other BBC channels, and tend to download the odd movie now and then rather than making it a daily occurance.

I could quite happily say 'What if I want to download the entire games ISO section of nforce.nl' doesn't make it 'typical' usage...

NOW we're getting somewhere. Considering that you can get better phone and TV deals than ntl are offering just why are you with them? Run, run away! It's consumer choice, it's great, you don't like a service you take your business elsewhere... or complain about it on a forum. Wonder which is the most constructive?

Sorry to hear that you can't get full speeds all the time. Your disconnects are in no way related to the upgrade, and imply a fault causing the slow speeds rather than anything else. Of course it could be a side effect that would be a hell of a lot worse if services were all uncapped. It's called contention. You can't expect full speeds all the time, especially on uncapped deals and I pity the support department of an unlimited 8Mbit ISP with you as a customer. BT right now are warning ISPs taking part in their 8Mbit trial to advise customers to expect throughput as low as 2Mbit/s at peak times.

You'd love the super Japanese deals, where you don't see much over 20Mbps ever on a 100Mbit line, and going outside of Japan you see a couple of Mbit or so (though this is the part that people like to forget when worshipping Japan, Korea, etc).

Why have any cap? Well, I'm going to be as blunt as I can and frankly don't really care who I offend.

As a general guide we can fit maybe 1200 users onto a uBR card before we start seeing capacity issues. Sometimes a lot, lot, less, but 1200 modems is about as high as we can normally go.

I have been speaking to a friend with an ISP whose tiers are 10Mbit/1Mbit and 5.5Mbit/640kbit. Running these bandwidths they can fit up to 2000 modems onto a single card and still provide a good service.

Bluntly speaking if there weren't so many people caning their bandwidth, meanwhile demanding that they never see their speed drop below the maximum our speeds would be faster, as the speeds could be higher, prices lower. Those bitching about the speeds while saying they'd rather have 1Mbit uncapped than 3Mbit capped are shooting themselves in the arse, along with those of us who would rather have burst speed than download slowly but constantly.

Yes, South Korea has 100Mbit services, although the bit you don't think about is that once you leave the major cities you are faced with paying about £20 for 1.5Mbit, still cheaper than here but not much. Japan have 100Mbit, however you'll never get near 100Mbit inside Japan (it's that big UK swearword contention wooooo), and once you leave Japan and go to the USA, Europe, etc most Japanese see closer to 2 - 3Mbit of throughput. Their bottleneck is in their transit links rather than the access networks.

BT's 8Mbit trials aren't running just yet, and the ADSL2+ trial is for employees only. See above for BT's warnings regarding performance degredation.

People are buying into capped rate services, simply because they offer them a better deal than the more 'communist' type services where everyone pays the same regardless of whether they want to download 1GB/month or 1000GB/month. It means better deals for them as they don't have to subsidise other people's usage. Can you blame Granny who checks her mail once a day for wanting to spend £17 a month rather than going unlimited and having to pay an extra 6 quid?

Sorry dude that used to be the case but after the increases in download making the ratio of download to upload 10:1 there's more capacity for downloading to affect the local networks than uploading.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

"Atm its giant steps backward [apart from upping speed] "

Umm you didnt read line 2, personally i cant see any other benefits than speed upgrade.
Maybe you could share all the other benefits with us less informed people?
Ty.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

What did i warn you. Put the Anti knife in the back vest on. You have joined the dark side now :LOL:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

What benefits do you expect to find in a speed upgrade, other than a speed upgrade?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

:LOL: Apprently he gave me negative rep :bigcry: ah well, it may eventually dawn on him and others like him that this is a no win situation for them, the cap is coming like it or not. The only choice they will have is take it or leave simple really IMO. :tu:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Ignition, ok point taken but the idea that it will catch the main abusers still not valid in your opinion either?

If its valid, then surely its a way forward that is easier to manage

if its not valid maybe i should start getting the p2p programs on my machine, something i have refused to let on my machine. Although i have allowed mirc and this is a chat program and used it to enter the irc channel of cableforums.co.uk
__________________

So Just to clarify for my mind....

Upload is not a problem anymore so ntl is would not be interested in people maxing out the upload but if I wish to use my connection to catchup with stuff that is potentially where ntl have a problem with me

I actually got the internet connection to download and now ntl would like me not to use that side because of the needs of other users (even if I don't go over the cap).

Who is ntl really after with this policy ... perhaps I read and guessed it wrong but "Heavy Users" being there using it 24/365 then maybe I thought that ppl that use the p2p programs were the targets and I guess not.

Seen as the arguement by many that these connections in this thread are potentially being used for illegal uses then surely this side of many peoples arguement including my own earlier posts will fall and as this seems to be the main arguement from some on this forum at throws a spanner in that arguement surely?.

Personally I do not like the idea of caps for an unlimited service - sold as an unlimited service but with the right communication this could have been so much less emotional for many. Splitting the service down into Limited and Unlimited may have been a better way forward in my opinion but I guess that would be too logical. limited is standard and unlimited you have to pay more for.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Since the new speed upgrade. I've downloaded 53.82 gigs:eeek: :D .I feel very guilty.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

And it is users like you who need restricting plain and simple, make the most of it soon as the caps are enforced the better.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

If he had legitimate reason too, and it wasn't a pattern of usage that would be constantly repeated, he might not have a problem.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

:shocked: 53 gig in roughly 3 days is IMO way over the top. I have just been talikng to my neighbour who is on a 3 meg connection. He has been downloading from usenet since the 9th, now he has been pulling off dvds quicker than blockbusters rent them. He is downlaoding roughly 5 gig every 3 and a half hours, and has not stopped since his upgrade. This is simply not reasonable use and you can virtually guarantee that he is not the only one hammering there upgrades. It is users such as this that simply need booting off it is and will continue to have an impact on other users IMO, why should i pay my bill and have my internet experience at times become a pain in the **** simply because people need to download massive amounts of data. Bring on the caps. :shocked: :shocked: :shocked:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

PM me his postcode and house number and I'll be happy to investigate :p:

EDIT: Seriously give me the postcode and house number and I'll be more than happy to check it out, he's having a laugh really and I've no time for that kind of hammering.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

What annoys me is that these people pull all this stuff is i doubt they watch or use it all themselves. If i download something, i'm going to use it, and then when i'm done, i'll move onto the next thing.

Only bad thing with the caps, i watch most stuff on my monitor as its fairly big (22"), runs at the HDTV resolutions and my computer can run the stuff flawlessly, so i like to get HDTV stuff, which weighs in at quite a lot :(

Then again, i'm guessing i'm one of a few in my area, as performance has never been bad, so hopefully its not hurting anybody else (not hurting other people in my area i know, at the least).

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Would you impact the service is you went onto AOL 2meg uncapped service?. Would it effect the bandwidth still?. Cos its only a fiver a month more.:( :D

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Highest aol over ntl cable service is 1mb, iirc.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Can anybody tell me if "Broadband Plus" is subject to the potential usuage limits?

http://www.ntlworld.com/broadbandplu...adbandpluscust

Me thinks this needs to reflect if it does.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Looks like their webpage is wrong in advertiseing a 2meg connect then:erm:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Just looked on there and the packages it offered me were up to 1mb on cable or 2 on bt phone line. Mind you having been a past user of AOL i'll think i would give them a miss. ;) ;) ;) ;)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Which house number? ;)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Ah yes i forgot how popular a cap of such low proportion would be. ;)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I've never seen any proof of that!! How do you know how much money they make on customers?

I rent some web servers, I can get a server for £40 per month, included in the price is 1200GB of bandwidth per month, that works out at roughly 3p per gig. (I'm sure NTL will pay a lot less, probably closer to 1p per gig)

You "claim" a customer using 10GB per day causes NTL to loose money. 10GB * 3p per gig = 30p per day, or £9 per month in bandwidth charges. (probably closer to £3 per month)

So that customer costs £9 per month plus the cost to send a bill, plus electric cost, plus equipment hire costs etc...

Apart from a slight fluctuations in bandwidth charges all customers cost the same, same electric cost etc.. apart from people that call customer service a lot, these customers cost the company the most.


Pete

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

and what country are these in ?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Souns a bit simplistic to me. This may be even more simplistic, but if NTL operate on a nominal 20:1 contention ratio, and everyone on a 2MB connection were to 'max out' their connections, wouldn't the theoretical speed drop to 100K for everyone? Should NTL then invest in upgrading the network to provide a 1:1 contention at 20 x the price?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Ive read a lot about how heavy users impact others i dont understand how,i download when i want i what i want nothing huge but enough,i know we are on a 50 to 1 contention and i know browsing sometimes slows on a saturday or sunday but what about overnight ?? excuse me if this has already been answered but i cant read back so far lol lol

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

FWIW (as discussed above) external transit bandwidth costs ntl around 10p/GB. This figure is falling rapidly. I wouldn't be surprised to see this below 1p/GB in the next five years.

What would really please those against capping would be if there were an evolutionary change in the capacity of ntl's 'last mile' network. Then any argument for capping would disappear.

I'd argue that this will happen eventually but judging the timescale is another matter.

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You seem to have it all worked out. :)

If you look at ADSL companies that charge for bandwidth over their cap it tends to be £1.50 to £2.50 per Gb.

If you look at Plusnet http://www.plus.net/support/faq/broa...sage_faq.shtml you will see Common sense dictates that no ISP can sustain having customers whose usage is in the hundreds of Gb per month as the cost of having them is several times the subscription they pay.

What would you say to NTL removing all usage restrictions and uncapping the speed that their cable modems are running at? What do you think would happen?

What do you think using the new 1Mb, 2Mb and 3Mb tiers would happen if every NTL customer went on line at exactly the same time and they all wanted to download a 100Mb file?

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Well people will use Microsoft Windows and Anti-Virus Software which automatically update very often.

What about Steam??? They send updates nearly every day. What happens if your PC crashes and you lose everything. I wouldn't want to wait over a week to re-download all my steam games (currently 8.51GB if you have the full back catalogue). It probably wouldn't happen to me, but it's bound to happen to someone.

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What with all the updates for antivirus, windows or steam there is no way that you could go through the amount of bandwidth that some people use. I am referring to the power users not the occasional user who goes slightly over the cap, but there really are some people who have to downloads gigs and gigs of data day after day. What do people find to download when they are hitting 50 gig+ a week is totally beyond me. And i still maintain that no way is someone who is hitting that kind of usage is totally 100% legit. :( :( :(

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Why impose a 1Gb a day limit when sometimes people may want to download more than that? They should make it a monthly cap (if they have to cap) as I don't download 1Gb every day, but some days I might download more.

I think the caps for being on 3Mb should be double those for being on 2Mb, if not more.

Can someone explain to me this:

What's the benefit of being on 3Mb over 2Mb???? 1Mb extra to download and 100k extra upload, for the same daily cap.

May as well save £13 a month.

I wonder how many other people will consider dropping from 3Mb to 2Mb, they're still 512k better off than they were and £13 a month better off.

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Or you may aswell figure out the reasoning for them both being the same, something that has been repeated here over and over.

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im confused, im an avid gamer, it says i get 6 hours of gaming a day, and i do more than that a day, wats going to happen?

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The general concensus of opinion [not mine, i may add] is you go elsewhere.
:(

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Admin Edit (Paul) - comment removed - don't try bypassing the swear filter please. is there any other isp's out there without caps at bb speed? and at this price i mean

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You game for more than 6 hours a day!! wish I had that much time to myself... :(

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They can't game for much more than 6 hours a day because they have to watch the two or three movies they have downloaded, listen to the 100 mp3's, install and play the two large game demo's and try out the half dozen linux ISO's. I am sure I've forgotton something. Oh yes, watching those HD TV streams and listening to all that streamed radio> :D :D :D :D

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My first post and a honest one.
It seems some members here seem to think that what other members download and how much has something to do with you?
What the hell has somebody elses downloads or online activities got to do with you?
Mind your own business and get a life.
BB has always been advertised as 24/7 until now when some companies see making money by charging for the extra gb downloaded do they change the rules.
I left another isp for talking rubbish and would do again if anybody told me what i could and could not do.
If i pay for 3mb service i expect it at 3mb 24/7 if some of you dont use it 24/7 then bad luck your paying for it.
I have 3 pc's connected through a router and 1 gig a day is a joke if enforced.
The only thing the cap is for is to charge for the extra gb of downloads to make easy money for the isp's

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Hmmm, interesting first post. I suggest you keep the rest of your posts a little more civil please. :)

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If someones activities are impacting on my services which i pay for then i expect NTL to do something about it. I do 100% agree with you that the cap is a joke at 1gig for a 3mb connection but by the same token so is the way some people go at there connections. Like it or not some users they may be in the minority do have an impact on other users thats just the way it is. Maybe just maybe if it wasnt for the bandwidth hogging minority there would be no need for caps. I pay for my bandwidth the same as everyone else does and i do resent people who just dont know when enough is enough and have a detrimental effect on my internet experience. It boils down to cause and effect IMO Power hungry users caused it and the effect is capping, take it or leave it. And before the knives come out again people have no right to download copyrighted and illegal materials period, and the sooner this cap is in effect the better IMO. You can alll start stabbing now :p: :p: :p: :p: :p:

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Is it worth dignifying that drivel with any kind of a response? I think all of that has been covered many times in the past.

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Just because some people download alot does not mean it's illegal or copyrighed materials.
I have 3 pc's for the family i run a game server need to upload download quite a bit and the rest of the family use it for work, college and online gaming also
Now a 1 gig limit is just to small enforced or not, it still would limit me for doing nothing wrong as with many other bb users.

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:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Hear Hear

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Too small for you and some others. Perfectly acceptable to other users though.

Ntl aren't holding a gun to your head and forcing you to take the service. A number of providers are now capping their services and as broadband moves more towards being a utility I can see more and more companies doing this.

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Drivel? have you read your own post's? i would use drivel in CAPITAL letters for yours

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Cold under the bridge is it :rofl:

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Have you read your own name?

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chill guys this thread is going :notopic: and getting personal.

I sympathise with others I have 3 pcs connected and late teens using two of them. I also have an online college course which uses bandwidth but name calling, being abusive or threatening will not make NTL change their minds.

You have a choice you either like the cap or willing to put up with the cap, if not then call NTL and cancel then move on, it as simple as that.

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Great, so you can use the caps lock, here have a dinosaur. :dozey:

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Enough of the personal stuff - play nice and stick to the topic please people.

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WHAT others download has nothing to do with me. HOW MUCH others download has a lot to do with me if it affects MY service. If you are paying for a capped 24/7 3MB service, then expect it to be 3MB 24/7 AND capped.

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How does it affect your service lets have the facts here please?
Show proof how much you were affected if you were at all?
What has others downloading stopped you doing?
Now you you might get a isp giving you a poor excuse its down to others but they are talking rubbish.

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Broadband is fast becoming a utility just like gas, electricity, etc, etc if i use more gas and electric then i pay more i use less i pay less. I do not see what the difference is myself the more you use the more you should pay IMO. If you do not wish to pay more than be content with what you have.

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If one person is maxing downloads and max uploads, on a busy UBR others can end up with slower speeds. It is a contended BB internet service not a personal 1to1 connection.

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We do pay extra for what we want 1mb ,2mb,3mb or 4mb in some areas

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See post #1353. As it happens, it doesn't affect me, because AFAIK no-one else on my street is maxing their connection, but with a 20:1 contention, maxing your connection will impact on your neighbours. I presume this is why the current 'soft' caps are only enforced if you are having a detrimental effect on other users. However, a 'hard' cap is fairer, as it does not then depend on your neighbours' usage and how many customers NTL happens to have in your area.
[Edit] Kits has already made the same point:)

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And i take it you work on NTL's network and have access to all the info relating to bandwidth usage and total amount of users on each UBR. Pray tell, show us your advanced knowledge about the cable network we use and give us your knowledge on how we can serve better so we need not cap users ?

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There is no 4M ntl service. Having read your posts again I am convinced that not only have you have signed up with a provocative name - you appear to be here purely to spout rubbish and inflame this topic. If you have something sensible to say then please say it, otherwise you will be taking an early bath. :redcard:

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Senseability goes out the window when they come out from under the bridge :)

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I disagree. 1Gb is too small for a 3Mb service. Especially when it's the same cap as the 2Mb service.

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That was the main reason I only took the 2mb service if it had been as first rumoured I was going to 3mb giving NTL an extra £13/£15 a month instead I have stayed on £24.99

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Let's not get onto ntl to much they struggle to keep a good e-mail service going let alone anything else.
But why offer faster bb if they can not handle it?
Now adsl will be 8mb later this year with no limits and there is no way ntl or tw can not afford to keep up.
So you will have to up your speeds but then you will have to cap even more because you can not cope with moderate downloader on a 3mb connection.
Which i will say and continue to say is rubbish as you are setting out charging for the extra gb's downloaded which would by peoples posts on here effect there downloads.
So would ntl etc then have to pay other broadband users for the bad speeds they get because others are paying by the gb for going over there cap?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Well you can disagree if you want. Thats the beauty of living in a democracy :D

I firmly believe (and this is backed up from info I've seen when I still worked in Ntl) that the majority of users will not exceed the daily limits. Possibly if things such as the BBC's interactive media player and other high bandwidth applications appear and gobble up your allowance then the caps will have to be looked at again.

Some people will exceed the caps (myself included)and they can either go to another uncapped provider (if they still exist) or pay the extra for going over the limit.

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Agreed, if it is enforced that way. If it's enforced as an average over a period, or as 30GB a month, I have no problem. (I often download software as CD images from MSDN. One download can be 3 CDs = 1.8GB).

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Yep 8Mb if the local exchange is situated at the bottom of your garden :D

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A low user is not necessarily a profitable proposition for an ISP.
Take the case of myself and my two neighbours, I have been on-line since the old bulletin board days (started with an acoustic coupler 300/75 speed), my two neighbours both connected to NTL at the lowest price tier within the past few years as a result of all the media hype. In both cases my neighbours cancelled their contracts after 12 months as they could not justify the cost every month. Installation costs for NTL were the same for all three of us, plus my neighbours had the promotional offer at the time (three months at half price, or whatever it was), then there was the additional cost to NTL of my neighbours continually having to phone CS due to their total lack of IT knowledge. I am not saying that my neighbours are typical of a new customer but it does seem strange that they both followed the same pattern exactly, so one can deduce that there must be many others following the same pattern.

If my neighbours are the type of †œlow userâ₠¬Ã‚Â� customer NTL is hoping to attract then I fail to see where the benefit to NTL is, surely a long term, savvy customer on top tier has got to be a much better proposition financially, yet these are the same customers that NTL is starting to target by all accounts.

The top tiers only advantage is their superior download speed, if NTL are going to frown on downloading then what is the point of providing the higher tiers, especially since the vast majority of NTL customers choose the cheapest tier anyway.

With VOD starting to launch are NTL going to limit the amount of films a user can download each day, not on your Nellie, suddenly there is no †œimpactà¢ÃƒÆ’¢â€šÂ¬Ã‚Âà ‚Â� issues, VOD will prove what a load of BS the whole capping issue is, if you are willing to pay then other users feeling the impact will suddenly be of little concern to NTL.

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Let's face it, with this topic and the upgrade topic we were always likely to get flooded with new members who only want to cause problems because the cap is going to impact how much they can illegally share. If all the posts by the P2P crew were removed from this thread and the cap was discussed sensibly and properly then this thread would be half the length it is. Yes we know there are some "legal" ways of using a lot of bandwidth each month but we also know that there is one very easy way to use 60Gb+ a month ;)
Personally I feel that the cap for the 1Mb service is too low, we'll monitor our normal usage and if we are encroaching on the cap too often we will have to look at what tier we are using. NTL have upgraded the BB speeds on numerous occasions for free, why should we moan too loudly about having to look at our usage to make sure we are using the right tier for us?
__________________

I think it's likely that the cap will be based on average monthly usage otherwise NTL will have a hell of a time policing the usage policy.

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Very true, most of people in this thread are illegall'y downloading, however not neccessarily through P2P (usenet is easily the best.)
However the fact is that many people pay for the service for this reason, and in the long run a lot of people downloading songs benefit the record companies, I've downloaded lots of songs then bought their albums because I enjoyed it. Or gone to see someone in concert after illegally copying their cd..

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Yes, and even then you won't actually get 8mb most of the time. Very few servers on the internet could sustain an 8meg download for more than 1 or 2 people at a time, and then there is all the network between you and the remote server. As an obvious example - those of you on 3meg links are not getting that speed from the Cable Forum Server (which is based in the USA) I have been testing it today and the best I can get is 2meg.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

What connection speed was you testing it with Paul M :D

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

not wanting to get into the whole good & bad side of the caps, but didnt an official body describe BB as atleast a 256 connection & always on......( something to do with the way it was being adviertised & the need to upgrade the lowest tier to 300k )

so would that mean NTL could only downgrade somebodies service to 256kbps,should they hit the cap & not have or want the option of buying extra GB's as anything below that would not be classified as broadband, though this should apply to all ISP's not just NTL....

Just a thought for discussion.....

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A 3 meg connection of course. :)