Re: smoking and the pub
 

eh? what does the public in public house stand for then?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I don't believe it is about "wanting" non-smoking pubs - it is about reducing health risks, especially to passive smokers.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6196910.stm

"Ms Hewitt said the ban would protect everyone from second-hand smoke, while making it easier for smokers to quit.
"The scientific and medical evidence is clear - second-hand smoke kills, causing a range of serious medical conditions including lung cancer, heart disease, and sudden infant death syndrome," she said. "This legislation will help to prevent the unnecessary deaths caused every year from second-hand smoke, and recognises that there is absolutely no safe level of exposure." "

Re: smoking and the pub
 

What about discriminating against smokers??????

You reckon that would be likely?

Apart from pubs, I can't think of any businesses where people might live on their premises.

---------- Post added at 12:50 ---------- Previous post was at 12:47 ----------


Of course it's about want!!!!!! How many people have posted in this thread about looking forward to it because it may reduce SID??? No-one. It's mainly 'I don't want to smell of smoke' yadda yadda yadda.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I have had relatives die horribly to, I am not advocating for smoking, just that they get a raw deal, it's all to easy for the government to raise the revenue and then tell us it's for our benefit, notice they fail to point out that they haven't actually lost a penny as such in revenue from the cross channel smugglers due to the taxation increases, so again law abiding smokers are footing the bill for those that choose to evade revenue.

As for staff, considering that there are more cancer causing chemicals in the air in rush hour traffic than in a local pub, where do you draw the line with that argument, ban cars, oh yes they are trying to, purely for our benefit I'm sure and that's without even going into the 'you choose to work there argument' (thank goodness)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

It's open to the public at the landlords convenience - but it's still owned and lived in by the landlord. If you're going to argue with me about this, please don't be so facetious. Do it properly or not at all. I expect an awful lot more from you.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Thought this would have been a good enough reason, myself......
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4309613.stm
"Passive smoking kills more than 11,000 a year in the UK - much higher than previously thought, a study shows.
The British Medical Journal study also gives a figure for people dying from second-hand smoke in the workplace - 600 a year - for the first time"

Re: smoking and the pub
 

dont know why. i'm an idiot. :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Which is why I made the point about having adequate smoking rooms*. Smokers *know* what the risks are. If they still wish to smoke, let them. Adequate smoking rooms should prevent non-smokers from passive smoking, and, lets face it, the smokers aren't worried about Active smoking, they aren't going to worry about passive smoking.

Edit:* By "Adequate Smoking rooms", I actually mean adequately ventillated smoking rooms. In the local pubs around me , where they did have smoking rooms, they also had extractor fans that were so strong that there was no chance of the smoke escaping into the non-smoking parts of the pub.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Speed cameras, operated by muslims.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Nah too simple. Charging motorists to drive by the mile is more likely :(

Re: smoking and the pub
 

pmsl :rofl:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I still think that there should be a choice.A way to accomodate everyone's wishes.Or a damn sight more help with giving up smoking from all the revenue that the government earns from the taxes.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I suspect the thing is that the Government wants to appear to be doing something, but without actually doing anything that substantially reduces the number of smokers. After all, if they get £10 billion a year in tax, they don't want to lose that.

---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:46 ----------

Immigrant muslims, who also happen to be Gypsies..

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Tax-dodging, burqa-wearing, stone-age illegal immigrant Muslim gypsies ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Folks,I think it's important that we take an even handed approach on this matter.

Therefore we also need to consider the gay tax-dodging, burqa-wearing, stone-age illegal immigrant disabled gypsy muslim speed camera operators. If anyone has any anecdotal experience of dealing with such minorities I'd be only too glad to hear same.

Meanwhile I'm off for a fag (in the carcinogenic sense, mind you).

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I'd heard you were a twenty a day man - now it all makes sense! :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Aren't they exempt from paying the television licence fee, for fear of upsetting them?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Only on widescreen TVs. ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Twenty a day - Shirley she must have some across one wearing a burqa by now!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

you know what, i haven't laffed so much in ages. good work all :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Personally I cant see the issue with popping outside for 3 min while you top up your addiction with carcinogenic drugs.

I'd not like to see a Heroin addict shooting up in the pub but at least they'd not make me smell like an ashtray.

Saying that I live with a guy who smokes but never in the house and only in pubs if everyone doesn't mind so I guess I'm used to seeing people take their dirty habit outside. :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I thought monks were supposed to be celibate? ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

There's a sodding great difference between ciggies and heroin. What a silly comparison.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

eeh, you're a bit touchy on this subject o'b. are you in a no-smoking environnment this afty? ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

It's going to ruin my local (where I also work part time) trade, all this no smoking ********. There are penty of pubs around that have got designated no smoking areas etc etc etc. This frigging govt. They'll be telling me how mcuh chinese takeaway I shouldn't be eating next. Or maybe fining me for having more than the unit amount of alcohol recommend for a female. Seriously, wtf is going on in this country?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

They already have, I seem to remember something about soy sauce not so long ago

Re: smoking and the pub
 

hmm. ingestion of your chinese takeway doesn't affect others though.

well it might but let's not go there eh

---------- Post added at 17:22 ---------- Previous post was at 17:18 ----------

er, its becoming more like ireland, norway, italy, malta, sweden, the us, france (ban just announced), scotland, canada......

(ok, i'm going into hiding now :) )

---------- Post added at 17:24 ---------- Previous post was at 17:22 ----------

...iran, australia, bhutan, montenegro, netherlands, tanzania




(yikes. wheres me hard hat)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Course it does when you are dead through to much 3 DCP or what ever it's called, I am sure your cruel family will miss you :D and besides surely after people have gorged themselves senseless they, will be blocking beds that could be better used for smokers ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

The ban comes in sooner in Wales, I have been surprised by many of the comments in my local from the smokers. I have been surprised how many of them don't seem to mind the ban, we only have one pub in town that's a no smoking pub and it does a very healthy trade. (No pun intended)

The landlady in my local is a heavy smoker, but she seems quite happy with the ban. She will at least not have to put up with people like myself who complain about having to wash their coat after every visit to the pub or get home from the pub and shower before bed.

the other advantage is not getting your clothes burned or being burned by someone with a fag, the latter happened to me whilst being served at the bar last weekend.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

http://www.caterersearch.com/Article...moking-ban.htm
"Punch said the introduction of outside smoking areas and better pub amenities, often including a quality food offer could not only negate the ban but lead to new opportunities.
The company, which said it was well advanced in its preparations for England and Wales, has set aside a smoking fund of £18m to support publicans in their preparations."

Re: smoking and the pub
 

It's not so much about you OB but others. :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Trust him, he's a doctor. :angel:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

So was Crippen :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But he wasn't a real doctor (and he was a Yank).
http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/dr_crippen.htm
"Hawley Harvey Crippen was born in Michigan, USA, in 1862. When he was 21 he came to England to improve his medical knowledge. He obtained a diploma, which was endorsed by the Faculty of the Medical College of Philadelphia, and in 1885 Crippen acquired another diploma, as an eye and ear specialist, from the Ophthalmic Hospital in New York. These qualifications were not sufficient for Crippen to practice as a Doctor in the UK."

I am sure Salu's is a proper MD (not one of the D.Phil's or Ph.D's), and he did not qualify in the Caribbean ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I am sure he isn't a murderer as well ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Murderer is such a harsh word - I believe the correct legal terminology is "junior doctor" :rolleyes:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Try that telling that at at the roadside whilst trying to extricate mangled bodies from a vehicle with two dead but the drunk driver still alive. OB

---------- Post added at 21:48 ---------- Previous post was at 21:39 ----------

I also believe Burk and Hare were emloyed by the medical profession, sometimes prematurely.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Did you mean these ladies? :D
http://www.burkeandhareedinburgh.co.uk/
It's hard being a trainee medic.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

No, I bought mine on the internet......University of Philestine....

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Look, I know we went over this ad nauseam some months ago, but ... freehold landlords are already told a lot of what they can and can't do in their own homes, so your argument on that basis falls very flat indeed.

They are told what size of glasses and measures to serve their customers in, they are told they can't even serve booze without permission from a magistrate (or a local council, I think it now is), they are told when they can open and when they can close, they are told what hours they are allowed to have their staff work, they are told how many people they are allowed to have indoors at any one time, they are told where and how to install fire alarms, firefighting equipment, fire escapes and signage to show the way ...

Do I need to go on?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

"They are told what size of glasses and measures to serve their customers in".

Hi, could I have a mammarytastic open minded blonde / brunette who can make a full Ulster fry the morning after without the need to know my name, address or phone number....in a pint glass please?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

probably not but then again doesn't stop everybody else :)

good post. as has also been said ad nauseam, this has been coming for a long, long time so landlords who resemble rabbits in full headlight gazing mode are going to look rather daft.

and, on the bright side, they can always get out of the pub trade and get into the patio heater business - i predict growth in that sector :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

As it doesn't seem to be affecting private clubs (who can make their own rules on this IIRC) we will still have 8 premises out of 27 who could still allow smoking in the Crib league :(

Re: smoking and the pub
 

On the contrary, it is totally banned everywhere, including private clubs.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Well that will make our team Captain very happy as she has terrible trouble with smoke everywhere and her heart problem. One local club (known as the "waiting to die club") may well bring the ban in as soon as January.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

You could've done, but I'm married now.... ;)

I wonder what the staff and landlords of the 600 rural pubs in Eire are doing now since the ban killed their business off and forced them to close?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Just my luck!!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

what, not living in rural eire? :)

actually o/b i have relatives in eire who own a bar which, not being in county dublin, counts as rural in my book. this was a dyed in the wool, frequented by farmers, decorated in nicotine gaff. it's doing fine. still frequented by farmers. :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

The one thing I really hate to see is if you go to a wedding reception etc and there are children and even babies there but people still light up! Go outside for 5 mins it wont hurt you unlike your second hand smoke that is being breathed in by non smokers.

And yes I do smoke :blush:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

i saw worse on sunday. a fella holding a very young baby and trying to light up at the same time. fag and lighter horrible close to the young uns face. stupid, stupid man.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Here's a question to smokers....

If the government decided to legalise cannabis and ignoring the morals of it for a moment, how would you feel if there were people all around you in every pub causing you to inhale it without your permission. I appreciate you may also be smoking it but if you chose not to then wouldn't you object to passively inhaling cannabis?

My point is still that my not smoking can't possibly harm you smokers but by you smokers smoking you WILL harm or effect me. Therefore as both our "rights" cannot be met the law has to protect the innocent ie the non smoker.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Very, very high?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But if there was a choice of smoking or non smoking pubs etc etc, you could choose not to go to the smoking pubs. That's my whole beef over this, the lack of choice.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

well unless you totally ignore the realities of the employment market, staff do not get a choice - and in other industries employers have a duty to protect their staff. if you want to cite choice, landlords can choose to go and open bars in countries where smoking is allowed. in fact anyone who's been to traditional sunshine haunts of the brits will see a number have already done so :)

to me this is just another sensible piece of health and safety legislation for which, as has continually been pointed out, landlords have had plenty of time to prepare.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

It's a hard balance to get between my rights and your rights, choice and discrimination and nanny state intrusion and law. The more selfsh we are as individuals in society the harder this is. My point is that we need to remember that we are a society and live as if we have neighbours rather than as if we lived in this world alone.

That is never going to be a "choice" though as it excludes the word Public from Pub and makes it a club. Even then that would be bordering on discrimination nowadays wouldn't it?

At the end of the day smoking is pretty antisocial isn't it, let alone the health implications? Usually anything that involves emitting a putrid smell in public is regarded as offensive in society.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

i wondered when my bottom would come into this. ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Yes, it is antisocial. But why not let us 'antisocial' people have a quick fag with our drink on a night out in a smoking pub, and you 'social' people go to a pub that has chosen to ban smoking? No-one's forcing you to go into a pub, are they? :shrug:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Then you would have to create separate leagues for all the pub games. Given that some pubs rely on this trade and some leagues would fold if there were not enough teams this would cause the demise of some pubs.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

People that would still be affected
- Smokers with non-smoking partners (one or other would be "discriminated" against)
- People with friends that smoke - you can always go outside for a quick smoke, not quite the same as going outside for some fresh air
- Non-smoking staff (unless you make it compulsory to hire only staff that smoke, but wouldn't that be "discrimination")

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But banning smoking has contributed to the demise of 600 pubs in Southern Ireland, so what's the difference?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But Punch Taverns in Scotland have said it has not affected business, and in fact, they expect to see an increase due to the smoking ban.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I smoke, my husband doesn't - he's an ex smoker, to doesn't mind at all if people do smoke. Thankfully, he's one of the few 'social' people who has his head in a place other than his ****, and wouldn't dream of being so sanctimonious or patronising.
Please explain why not?

No - you can advertise a job, stating that if you were to apply, you would need to bear in mind it was in an establishment that allowed smoking. Then the choice is yours. :shrug:

---------- Post added at 15:30 ---------- Previous post was at 15:27 ----------


Good for them - but can they class any of their pubs as rural? Also, it's a lot easier for chains to stay afloat. They can dictate their prices, or at least negotiate a good discount for volume orders. Freehold rural pubs don't have such power. Therefore they'll lose their regular smoking customers, and what else can they do?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Re: smoking and the pub
 

i say, steady on chap ;) :)


well for starters you would have to stay out permanently to guarantee uniterrupoted supply of clean air. this may affect staff prouctivity :D



only if you assume an unregulated market will ensure that people have real choice not to work in environment which might harm their health. i do not go along with that assumption by any stretch.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

You assume that every person that wants to work in a bar is as narrow minded and non smoking as some people on here are. :)

---------- Post added at 15:36 ---------- Previous post was at 15:33 ----------

I really hope these same people that want an uniterrupted supply of clean air don't drive cars, or walk round town on a busy saturday afternoon or.......

Oh, sorry, none of that counts does it. :rolleyes:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

You assume that everybody who works in a bar doesn't mind dying of secondary smoke.
;)
Cracking argument, ob - if you don't want to die of second-hand smoke, you are narrow-minded.

Good point, well made!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

True,

How is allowing a landlord/lady to choose whether to make his or her pub non-smoking or not any worse than banning smoking from pubs? Either way, one group of people is banned from the pub. At least if the people who actually run the pubs are allowed to chose, both groups of people are allowed to drink in one pub or another.

Remember, if some pubs are smoking, and some non-smoking, those people who do object to people smoking have the freedom to go to a non-smoking pub. Under the government's current plans, NO-ONE has the freedom to chose a smoking pub. Fair? I think not. Antisocial? Yes.

So we should ban petrol and diesel vehicles then? After all, they both emit pollution which is nasty smelling and possibly dangerous..

Re: smoking and the pub
 

could i ever so tentatively point out that we banned leaded petrol on health grounds ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I believe OB was making the point that people who think Smoking should be banned in all public places are narrow minded.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Based on that argument, you could say that about people working in a bar don't mind being stabbed/killed. Working in a bar and being stabbed/killed, like dying of second hand smoke is a risk inherent in the job. A risk you accept to take on as part of the job, and the ages you recieve. If you don't want to come in contact with second hand smoker, nor do you want to risk facing violence as part of your job, there are other occupations you can do. Anyway, if people are working in bars currently where they come into contact with second-hand smoke, they can hardly be that bothered about it?

And before anyone starts with the usual personal attacks, I am a non-smoker. Always have been, always will be.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

not really a comparable risk and certainly one you can mitigate against hence this legislation

:p: :p: :p: :D apart from your passive intake? ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Anyway, isn't it about time for one of these?

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2006/12/18.jpg

Re: smoking and the pub
 

So by that reasoning we could simply ban Gitanes/Gaulloises cigarettes and be done with it? ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

nah, stuff 'em ;)







[not really. infuriates me that so many british hostelries are so hostile to kids. compare that to ireland.....]

---------- Post added at 16:01 ---------- Previous post was at 16:01 ----------

don't you start :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Nah - they haven't tested cigarettes on babies for years - they switched to beagles (apparently). ;)

---------- Post added at 16:03 ---------- Previous post was at 16:02 ----------

Or anything French? :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

ah, do you remember sweet tobacco? yum. :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Didn't that give passers-by secondary tooth decay? ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I would have thought so. If I stabbed you in various places on your body, they will die. There's no risk, as its a certainty. Its quantifiable and provable. If you inhale second hand smoke, then there a chance you'll die, whoever, not wishing to count research into the effects of smoking, but the chances are not quantifable at all, and are quite random. People who smoke 40+ a day have been known to live into their 90s, where as some don't.

:p: Seriously though, what can I do, invest in a bubble? Ditch every friend who smokes? Bit paranoid. Besides, my parents smoked for years so the damage is well done now.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

the link betwen passive smoking and lung cancer is well established and if a pub allows smoking then all in it are at risk, but esp[ecially the staff. despite the lurid headlines i would respectfully suggest (and without being able to back the suggestion up :) ) that the chances of being stabbed are much lower than the health risks presented by blanket exposure of cigarette smoke.



well here you do have a genuine choice i guess. staff in smoking pubs certainly don't and those who want to sit with friends who dont smoke in an environment where others do have a limited choice and limited protection. this really is quite simple for me. a pub is a public place. the govt, employers and indeed all of us have a duty to protect the public insofar as we can in places which are open to the public.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Established... but not quantifiable. Unlike being stabbed or shot.

Because of the unquantiable nature of smoking and cancer, the chance of dying via smoking versus dying via stabbing, will never be known.


But they do. Noone is forced to do any job.

You say "want" and then you say they have no choice.

Despite the name, it isn't though. They are private places of business and the landlords/ladies/employees/patrons choose to enter/work in.

When you say people have no choice to work in a pub, I think that's pretty insulting to them.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

It is quantifiable
"In 2003 across the United Kingdom an estimated 617 people died from the effects of passive smoking at work, 54 of these were long term employees of the hospitality industry. Another 11,000 deaths were attributable to passive smoking exposure in the home in adults aged 20 to ≥ 65.This accounts for around 2% of the current annual toll from all smoking related deaths in the UK.

Population estimates in the US show the number of annual estimated deaths from Second Hand Smoke exposure as significant. For nonsmokers:

· around 3,400 people die from lung cancer (ranging from 3,423 to 8,866)
· 46,000 die from cardiac-related illness (range of 22,700 to 69,600)
· 430 children die from sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS).

Another 24,500 babies are born with low birth weight and 71,900 born prematurely. There are around 202,300 episodes of childhood asthma (new cases and exacerbations) and 787,700 cases of middle ear infection in children due to SHS exposure"

Can you quantify the number of hospitality staff stabbed/shot?


You obviously haven't been to JobCentre+ lately - if you don't find your type of job within 13 weeks, you must try for anything - I cannot see them accepting "I do not wish to work in an area where I will be exposed to Second Hand Smoke" as a reason not to take a job.


And as a place of business, they must comply with health & safety regulations, including those about not allowing an environment or conditions that could negatively affect their employees health. We often take the jobs we can get, not the jobs we want.

If that is their skillset and they enjoy their job, how is it an insult? (I worked in a pub for a few months, and a few of my colleagues had worked in bars for over 20 years - they would find it difficult to get another job).

Re: smoking and the pub
 

punky, you seem not to understand the realities of those in low wage economies. choice is not by any means a given.

as for suggesting its insulting to people when i say that they dont have a choice to work in a smoking pub, that is frankly, arrant nonsense. i'm not demeaning the job in any way - its tough (split shifts etc) and can require great diplomatic skills (hey orangebird is your mother anything like you? ;-) ) but people mnight have to take a job in a smoking pub out of necessity.

pubs are public places by definition. just because they are places of work does not make them any less public.and public places are subject to all kinds of jurisdiction as foreverwar pointed out pages and pages ago. this is simply another restriction designed to protect public health, including staff (whom I bang the drum for the most because i really dont accept that choice is always there). and govts for aeons have taken steps to protect public health so i think prevention of inhalation of benzene, nicotine etc etc is just continuing a fine and well established tradition.

sometiomews the public need protecting from themselves and other members of the public - you'll find reams and reams of legislation demonstrating that fact.


anyways this thread is getting incredibly tedious and going around in circles, enlivened only by orangebird's amusingly intemeperate interjections :)

its happening people. get over it. move along, there's nothing to see here..... ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

It isn't. How many cigarettes give you cancer? Some people smoke 1 a day and get lung cancer at 40, some smoker 40+ and live to they are 90. How is that quantiable?

If its quantifable, then how many cigarettes will give you cancer? How much passive smoking will give you cancer? Noone can possibly say

And whats to say that a smoker who gets lung cancer is directly due to smoking? Smoking is a contributary cause, but its not the only cause. It can be coincidence.


How the hell can they say SHS causes cot death? Noone knows what causes cot death. Over the years almost everything has been blamed on it, from lead paint, overheating due to being wrapped in blankets and murderous mums.

And how can they say what percentage of cardiac-related illnesses are due to SHS?

And it can be proven that that was all down to SHS and no other cause?

Actually, I have... And there are other jobs than bar work available. People are capable of doing hundreds of different jobs without specialisr training. You could also start your business. Retrain in something else.



What about Police? Fire brigade? Security guards?


Difficult does not equal impossible. To say people are only capable of one sole employ is insulting.

---------- Post added at 18:12 ---------- Previous post was at 18:06 ----------

Yeah, OK. I disagree with you, so I don't understand?

No they aren't. That's why you can be barred by the owners. If they are public, then everyone, children and adults, would have a right to be there. They aren't. The are private businesses.

Couldn't have put it better myself

You and your cohorts (lot allowed to say mob anymore?) can say I have no idea what its like to be poor (I am earning less than minimum wage, remember), etc, but that doesn't mean I am wrong.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

who's attacking anyone? (o/b excepted of course :) )

final point before i go slash my wrists at the futility of life as highlighted by this thread - employment opportunities vary and in poorer areas, where smoking is much more prevalent, job choice is much more limited. thats my point.

as this appears to be turning into a bit of a slanging match (not my intention at all) and incredibly, incredibly tedious i shall try and, er, butt out now :)

---------- Post added at 17:26 ---------- Previous post was at 17:25 ----------

ps. youre a mod now punky. you can say what you like ;) :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Sometimes the only job you can take is bar work because your partner works during the day minding the under 5's then you swap and this is the only job that fits your family arrangements.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Foreverwar: Just to stop you from writing a long post that I have no real desire to reply to (which isn't fair on you) as this isn't going to go anywhere good can we just agree to disagree?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Although people have been known to live into their 90s and smoked these numbers are very very small. If you smoke you are highly likely to die as as result of smoking. You also may loose your legs or spend several years on permanent oxygen and not being able to walk more than 2 paces without feeling like you have just run a marathon.

People often say to me "I could get run over by a bus tomorrow".....well that would be a much kinder way to die than from the above. It's not a quick easy death. If you smokers could spend a day with me I'm sure you'd think a little harder about stopping.

:)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Sounds good to me :)

Let's get together for a drink on 1st July to discuss it further, eh? :D

This might be of interest to smokers (and friends/relatives thereof -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6207176.stm
"A new type of treatment to help smokers quit is now available in the UK.

Varenicline (champix) is the first non-nicotine drug developed specifically to help smokers give up.

The drug mimics the effect of nicotine on the body and is thought to work by both reducing the urge to smoke and relieving withdrawal symptoms.

Experts said there was likely to be heavy demand for the drug ahead of the ban on smoking in public places in England, which takes effect next July."

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I found this quite interesting.

snippets:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

As of tomorrow our smoking staff room at work will be no more :( Only place we will be allowed to smoke will the the "designated smoking area" (read: bus shelter). Booooo.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

And the award for the least will-power in the Western world goes to Andy Hughes of Edinburgh. :rolleyes:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Can't wait to hear his excuse for the smack habit :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Well he is from Edinburgh.... :erm:

Just how stupid can someone be?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Looking forward to the ban in Liverpool.
I'm a *new* non smoker see here http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/22...24-i-quit.html
and I'm not really bothered about the smell of the smoke in pubs, what does bother me is seeing smokers sitting in the non smoking area smoking; how rude!
Non smokers were given that little space in the corner where they could sit and be away from direct smoke, but someone would sit there and puff away. It annoyed me to see it done when I smoked and it annoys me more now.

Hope this doesn't come across as a advert and if its against the forum policy, staff please remove reference to it.
Allen Carr's Easyway to stop smoking, great book. I was reading this whilst using patches, I was about 2 weeks into using patches;I finished the book took off the patch and have not smoked since.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

When I read that I thought you meant the commedian Alan Carr:

http://www.funnyfirm.co.uk/users/www.../alan_carr.jpg

:blush: :rofl:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:LOL:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Perhaps we should let people drive with cellphones in their hands. No need for seatbelts either, or speed limits or MOT tests, can't adults make up their own mind as to what is safe?

Smoking and passive smoking have been shown to cause cancer, not just a casual link just like wearing a seatbelt has been shown to save lives. A government has a responsibility to try and effect that change on a nation.

---------- Post added at 14:49 ---------- Previous post was at 14:44 ----------

What can be said is there is an almost mathamatically impossible positive corrolation between smoking and lung cancer. That cannot be ignored.

Any statistics bell curve. Your 1 and cancer at 40 and your 40 / 90 are extremes that are statistically discounted from the population. There are exceptions to most rules and generalisations.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

The difference in the analogies being, of course, that andygrif mooted his analogy on the basis that people were totally aware of the environment and risk involved in a mutually acceptable confluence.

As indeed have oral sex and exposure to sunlight - Have either of those been banned?

---------- Post added at 14:49 ---------- Previous post was at 14:44 ----------

Whilst it "cannot be ignored" it can be irrelevant in the greater scheme of things.

Not so. Lung cancer is the second biggest cancer form in the UK - the biggest being breast cancer. Take the population by gender per head and subtract the non smokers and you'll find that having t*ts or being a "lady" are a bigger risk than passive smoking.

Yes, I think I've pointed that out above.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

They have in our house :(


(celibate vampires)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

So in this life you don't want to be an oral sex offering smoking female who spends time outdoors!
I'm sure that our Tone given time would have tried to pass appropriate legislation.