Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It can't be a very useful domain any more - not after BT let out that blocking this domain would make BT internet services unusable. As BT have promised to fix that little gremlin before everything goes live, some other domain must be being used in its place. With domains being so cheap by the 1,000s and subdomains costing nothing, it could be possible for each phormed request to be 307ed to a different domain. Nah, they wouldn't do that, would they?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hey, 60 bucks and OIX.net is yours...

Your offer for oix.net
Domain: oix.net
Your Offer: 60 USD

Please complete the necessary contact details, so that we can fully process your offer

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

A roundrobin would not be out of the question I expect.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 14:59 ---------- Previous post was at 14:58 ----------

Gonna put an AntiPhorm site on it? I would ;)

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

nono use it for adverts for charities all free:angel:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sometimes I get a little bored and wonder what will come out of the woodwork if I do a little wandering around.

Did a little search for webwise on the bt site
http://www.bt.com/retailsearch/searc...ieStatus%7E%7E

The second result leads to
http://bt.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/bt.cf...&p_faqid=10988

bt.custhelp.com is hosted on 81.110.142.41and a whois on ripe.net gives the following result
[quote]Whois has started ...

[Moderator Edit]

Does anything related to webwise get hosted by BT?

BTW custhelp.com has a US address as per alexa http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:N...m+custhelp.com
I wonder if BT cookies are leaked there too? - it leaks the 2o7.net tracking used on the bt.com site.

[Moderator Edit (Rob M): Copyrighted information removed]

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Originally these enquiries were going to Phorm direct via the contact us pages on the BT Webwise site (hosted by Fasthosts - famously devoured by a fire/power outage a few months ago to demonstrate the rock solid security of the system)
They forgot they were supposed to have overseas data processing partners signed up to the Safe Harbour agreement - still waiting for ICO to come back to me on that one....

At the time BT cookies were leaking like a sieve and being passed onto Phorm along with user ID and PII. still waiting for the ICO to come back to me on that one, and that reminds me - BT never replied to my formal Data Protection Act request (plus cheque) for details of which bits of my data got forwarded to Phorm via the Webwise contact us page and the leaky cookies. Must remind them they've broken the law again...

Then BT webwise jumped on a bouncy ball and ran around the world a few times, and now is with custhelp.com their regular customer facing enquiry site. It's more travelled than the Queen Lizze II cruise ship and a lot more leaky.

They have to outsource customer enquiries because everyone in BT has forgotten how to talk to customers. In fact I think they may not even know the meaning of the term - I think we are thought of as suppliers of data, and sources of cash - milch cow is the term I think.

Mostly it's in the UK now but I think there are some backup mirror sites in some strange American locations - wouldn't be surprised to find out that they aren't signed up to Safe Harbor agreement either.

Thanks for reminding me Madslug - time flies so quickly. I find it really difficult keeping on top of my BT law-breaking files. The pile is so high.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sorry Stuart we will try to keep it more on topic mind it is good inphormation to help the fight against phorm since if Ryanair wins then what phorm will be doing to websites is halfway there to being illegal by a court.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Whilst Phorm/Webwise is known almost microscopically here, it is known superficially or not at all by too many other net users. The Downing Street petiition has been signed by over 16,000 people. It may well reach 20,000 or 30,000 or 100,000 or (let's go wild) 300,000. That's still a small dent in 10 million BT/VM/TT customers.

Spreading the word seems more important than dissecting every new bit of information that comes out of BT or wherever. Imho, the smart money would postpone Webwise until opposition is possibly less organised and vociferous. Let the climate cool as it were. The current financial turmoil is making Corporate decisions tough.

Imho, there's a waiting game to be played.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I agree. Meanwhile, some of us will soon need to get back to spending more time on work than we do on spreading the word. What ideas do you have to help motivate everyone to keep up the battle?

BTW - I view the hosts file as part of the 'money talks' battle. Stop the ads displaying, stop the tracking scripts, stop the cookies.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

(updated)

From a web masters PoV, identifying a wide range of technical/legal/commercial countermeasures is critical at this stage.

Because law enforcement and regulation has simply utterly failed to do its job.

You are right. As ever, spreading the word at grass roots level remains critical. The mainstream press are clearly not willing to cover this (though they obviously should).

Phorm must be stopped

Pete

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I would add to that, Users would be far more willing to Sign the Petition if they realized the Dangers of the Direct Injection techniques being used by ISPs specifically in relation to their Browsers!

http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com...324395,00.html

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Points understood and taken from all. I'm just a little concerned that all those in the know, know everything and those not in the know aren't finding out at least something. :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Looks like those Sedo listings for OIX.net and Webwise.net really are genuine. :drool:

Sedo have a published procedure for confirming ownership of domains listed.






.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

In one way I am glad webwise is for sale and hope they don't have anyother domains using webwise is it is very misleading to children they would think it was part of BBC webwise safe harbour.

Mind they still sitting on webwise.com, Registrant:
Phorm, Inc Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: WEBWISE.COM

Co uk is an interesting site..
http://www.webwise.co.uk/ Registrant:
Dave Beasley Registrant type: UK Sole Trader Registrant's address: Monkmoor Shrewsbury

webwise.org.uk student website Registrant: ANDREW PARTON Registrant type: UK Individual Shropshire

webwise.me.uk Registrant: simon scott Registrant type: Unknown Registrant's address: MEDWAY KENT

WEBWISE.ORG Phorm via godaddy.
WEBWISE.INFO Registrant ID:C866504-LRMS
Registrant Name:Rich Richbart
Registrant Organization:Adirondack Trust
Registrant Street1:41 Ave C
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Saratoga Springs
Registrant State/Province:NY
Registrant Postal Code:12866
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.5185810690
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:sysop@spa.net
Admin ID:C866504-LRMS
Admin Name:Rich Richbart
Admin Organization:Adirondack Trust
Admin Street1:41 Ave C
Admin Street2:
Admin Street3:
Admin City:Saratoga Springs
Admin State/Province:NY
Admin Postal Code:12866
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.5185810690
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:sysop@spa.net
Billing ID:C866504-LRMS
Billing Name:Rich Richbart
Billing Organization:Adirondack Trust
Billing Street1:41 Ave C
Billing Street2:
Billing Street3:
Billing City:Saratoga Springs
Billing State/Province:NY
Billing Postal Code:12866
Billing Country:US
Billing Phone:+1.5185810690
Billing Phone Ext.:
Billing FAX:
Billing FAX Ext.:
Billing Email:sysop@spa.net
Tech ID:C866505-LRMS
Tech Name:Domenic DAndrea
Tech Organization:Saratoga Online, Inc
Tech Street1:41 Ave C
Tech Street2:
Tech Street3:
Tech City:Saratoga Springs
Tech State/Province:NY
Tech Postal Code:12866
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.5185810690
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX:
Tech FAX Ext.:
Tech Email:sysop@spa.net

webwise.biz £100.00 Available!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Other domains aren't for sale as far as I can tell;

qkilbdr (.net)
openinternetalliance (.com)
sysip (.net)
youcanoptout (.com)
121media (.com)
phorm (.com)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hmm, so are Phorm planning on dropping the webwise name and launching under another name - "SmartWeb" perhaps - from the webwise.com metadata?

Or could someone have hacked phorm and intercepted and redirected their admin email?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

So Kent appears to be trying to quietly ditch the webwise brandname and attendant domains....let's not open the champagne just yet - he has has a history of this kind of thing. We need to be more vigilant than ever, looking out for the domains that he plans to use in their place (I'm sure he's learnt a valuable lesson from the Phorm affair; don't give your enemies details of your domains or how your system works. Make them figure it all out for themselves)
Here's a scenario: this change has been secretly planned for a while now, in conjunction with the next BT trials. Perhaps the delays in launching the trials are partly down to having to rewrite everything to work with the new "secret" domains. The plan is to launch the trial without telling anyone the domains that will be used, and so the anti-Phorm brigade will have no way of identifying those domains until after the trial has started - then they'll need volunteers to accept the trial in order to examine the re-routes to identify the new domains. In effect, it's Phorm going on the offensive. I certainly wouldn't write them off just yet...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

As John H over on BT Beta forums has pointed out, the Sale pending of webwise.net makes yet another section of the official BT advice in the Webwise FAQ somewhat out of date. It was last updated on 2nd April 2008 around the time BT stopped answering questions.

The advice on avoiding Webwise from BT as contained in their Beta Forum Webwise FAQ is as follows: "Section 18 - part 2 - if you delete cookies regularly and want to remain opted out, you can set all your browsers to block cookies from the domain www.webwise.net. When you block this domain, the service will opt you out permanently. You can use this option now and will then be opted out of BT Webwise."

So there is an opportunity for another question to BT I suppose...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Its possible, given the madness that governs the way they work.

I'll admit, I have no idea now what Phorm are doing. Sanity left the building a while back.

Every morning I wake up and think this is all a hoax. I'm expecting Jeremy Beadle's head to appear on PC screen at any moment.

"You're on live TV! You fell for our hoax!"

How else could you explain Phorm, Kent Erfdgdf, BT, Simon Davies, Michael Rake, the ICO, OFCOM, Emma Sanderson, The Gnome*, Ian Livingston, the Police, Gavin Patterson, the AGM, the Home Office... because it simply can't be real.

Its too stupid, too bonkers, too outrageous to be real.

Pete.

* I'm not even sure whether The Gnome is real or not, he seems more real than most of the rest of this madness.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Regarding your link, Pete. To me it looks as if webwise domain isnt for sale, or have one of you bought it already?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes Pete, it's your very own "Truman Show" ;) - i.e. you can't escape Phorm's 24/7, always-on voyeuristic gaze.

(I'd be very disturbed if Beadle popped up - hasn't he been dead for a couple of years? :erm:)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It was earlier also had 1 bid on it..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Webwise seemingly no longer for sale.

These people are off their trolleys.

WTH are they doing?

:doh:

OIX.net is still available if you're interested, or barking mad.

:dig:

.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I contacted Sedo about those domains;

regarding the domains oix.net and webwise.net currently listed for sale, are these sales verified as genuine with the domain owner? Knowing the current owner and the purpose they were intended for, I'm surprised to see them for sale, and suspect it might be a hoax or fraud.

Just had a message from Sedo;

Thank you for contacting us at Sedo. We have removed these outdated listings from our marketplace and from the previous owners' Sedo accounts

So that explains it all. :scratch:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

My offer of $60 got declined.

---------- Post added at 21:27 ---------- Previous post was at 21:25 ----------


Another few months and Phorm will be as well :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Wasn't there a FOI request made by someone which was due out August 8th? Or was that some time later in August? Anyone have any news on that?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Can someone please post the text version of the Phorm flyer, which can be found here:

http://nodpi.wikispaces.com/Propaganda

Into this broadband forum:

http://www.broadbandwatchdog.co.uk/f...wforum.php?f=1

I can't seem to register at all, for some reason. I've tried switching browsers, disabling noscript, allowing cookies, et. al. Might be my hosts file or something...

Thanks.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I gave it a try and I couldn't register either :(

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Strange. Thanks anyway.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

BTW - the file names for the first two copies of the flyer on that url are the same so p resumably one of them is incorrect.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

4everdns.com :Yikes:

http://forums.theplanet.com/lofivers...hp/t61549.html

:td: :td: :td: :td:

:eeek:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Let's face it Pete, as I am sure you are aware, one of the reasons we are so aghast with this whole Phorm - WebWise - BT scenario is how did it it ever get this far?

My opinion would be to suspect that someone in BT either was negligent in their checks on Phorm and their unsavoury past (present in 2006?) history, or perhaps something more sinister and underhand went on to allow an alleged spyware company intercepting customers ISP web data without their knowledge.

Lets face it, if 121Media (Phorm) at the time had so desired in 2006, they were given access to lots of private (secret) information of unsuspecting customers and probably insufficient checks were in place to prevent anything untoward happening by BT. If what I have read on this forum is true and high level network security BT personal was unaware of what went on at the time, it would be very worrying.

I hope the police investigate the whole scenario do a really proper and in-depth job and find out what actually went on behind the scenes.

If there is anything underhand and untoward apart from the obvious illegalities or running the trials without permission, I hope heads will severely roll.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Agree completely. How BT ever got into bed with 121 Media defies comprehension.

I did wonder if the person who posted that analysis might have been a trial victim, who got confused by the injection of Javascript code into his pages (which in itself demonstrates what a stupid idea modifying anyones private communications is, for the telco not just the recipient).

But that post I linked to dates from April 2006, supposedly well before the BT trials in Q3/Q4 2006.

---------- Post added at 10:50 ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 ----------

I've been asked for an English explanation of that post, happy to oblige.

My interpretation is this;

The poster seems to have received spam concerning various 'controversial' topics.

When he followed links in the spam, he was taken to a site called 4everdns.com.

On the pages of 4everdns.com he found Javascript from sysip.net embedded in the pages. The script was grabbing IP addresses from visitors.

When he followed the name server details for sysip.net, he found 121 Media were responsible.

121 Media is the previous trading name of Phorm.

So to conclude...

Either
- the 'controversial' spam messages/host sites may have been linked to 121 Media
or
- there was possibly a trial of PageSense running in April 2006

Pete

---------- Post added at 10:56 ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 ----------

If anyone is a member of Planet Forums, and wouldn't mind contacting the poster

http://forums.theplanet.com/index.php?showuser=20935

If so questions to ask
- Which ISP were you with in April 2006?
- Did you keep a copy of the spam emails?
- Did you keep a copy of the pages involved?
- Were any other pages affected, or was it only 4everdns.com?

Pete

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

My interpretation also. If I could add, the information is not implying any possible trial was with BT.

EDIT: I see you have made that clear in your last edit request. :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Given the information available here.
http://www.digitallook.com/news/shar...R&D_costs.html

It was more than likely, both forms of activity at the same time!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

the deeper we dig !!!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi all,
got this reply from VirginMedia today regarding DPA notice. Mr. Woodham makes a couple of points I thought you should see.

Phil

http://www.phillyn.pwp.blueyonder.co.../virgindpa.jpg

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Can anyone confirm whether the Petition Website is Up or Down, I have been unable to view it for 2-3 hrs, although the main site is still up?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'm able to view the list of petitions, but not view any of them.

Having said that, the whole site seems to be running slow.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It works for me. Currently 16813 signatures.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If you click on any petition and wait about 10 minutes, it will eventually load.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

its running slow on that side of things it`s still there all 16813 sigs and climbing.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well, I'm not believing much of what he's saying there :P

By the way, I got a call from VM the other day asking why I'd cancelled. The woman on the other end then felt it necessary to remind me repeatedly that I'd not get as good a service or supply from any other supplier, and that there was 'no way' I could get equivalent speeds on ADSL. The woman I spoke to at Be, on the other hand, has informed me that the contestion ratio on my line is 1:1, and that because of the exchange and its distance from me I should very easily be able to get up to 24mb.

I did remind everyone I spoke to in VM about Phorm, and made a point of mentioning it to the guy trying to sell me BT broadband packages as well - apparantly he'd never heard of them.


BT must be raking in the money over this though - what we don't seem to have considered is people who want to leave VM's cable service, and so have to shell out for a phone line from BT before they can get any replacement

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

yes maybe so but cannot see the dpi kit been used on phones to serve you ads while you chat with other people as that would be very very naughty, but they do have the power to break in a call if the need arisies which is different but no adverts.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That's much better than the rubbish I got when I served mine on them. The response I got was similar to a general complaint.

I am sitting on mine waiting to see if they do move backwards and take up Phorm/webwise. If they do and I am alerted in any way that I possibly have to do something (when I already have), the 'fan will have some sticky muck on on it'.

I will be leaving VM but not before I do a little bit of legal retribution.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Not sure I agree with his belief that he is not a "Data Controller" in the terms of the DPA;

“data controller� means, subject to subsection (4), a person who (either alone or jointly or in common with other persons) determines the purposes for which and the manner in which any personal data are, or are to be, processed

... but he can call himself whatever he likes.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I always feel that it is worrying, whenever DPA is mentioned, no one seems to see beyond the direct marketing packages offered which needs your name and address data to send to you.

Since adware was first invented, 'no personal information' has been the selling point.

The DPA needs to be improved. There is no way whereby anonymous data should be able to be used to send me direct marketing which is based on 'something' which I have done.

If the marketing response is personalised, the underlying data used MUST be personal and not anonymous, even if the elements making up that data have not been explicitly mentioned by the DPA as personal data.

I recall reading a document on the ICO site which suggested that this type of amendment needed to be made.

The problem is that even if tracking cookies like the UID are classed as personal data under the DPA, all the business using the data has to do is register with the ICO and use the data as per their registration and privacy policy and no one is any better off.

About as efficient as eTrust certifying some of the sites that have been certified - it has reached the stage now that when I see an eTrust certificate, I avoid the site like the plague. Rather like the spammers success in promoting the latest anti-spamming legislation.

---------- Post added at 14:31 ---------- Previous post was at 14:16 ----------

If you look at the thread on badphorm when people were searching for the remains of the 2006/7 trials, early 2006 did show some traces. And, once they started to identify the ISP in the javascript, there were a few different ISPs indicated. Would it have been as few as the 10 ISPs mentioned in the 121Media report? - now, why does it only appear to have been BT that did not run a mile after the trials? Perhaps the rest got tired of waiting and joined up with Adzilla, NebuAd, Barefruit and FrontPorch, etc.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

archive.orgs cache of netboy0002.l202.4everdns.com/ shows a "60 second mortgage quote page".


http://web.archive.org/web/200605072....4everdns.com/


Perhaps the poster recieved various spam promoting services hosted on 4everdns.com, googled for 4everdns.com and found a post in the planet forums spamming the above link that also contained a sysip.net javascript - ie the spammer the poster refers to was a "participant" in one of the pagesence trials.

EDIT: Hmm, re-reading that post I realised he mentions seeing sysip.net in the page source, so the poster was probably the victim of a pagesence trial.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The thing that looks most likely to me from reading early 2006 posts on this in various forums is that there was indeed trialling going on before the dates we have seen that BT admitted to. The early 2006 posts seem to be describing the same phenomenon of browser hijack - redirection.

So was this another secret trial with BT or with another ISP?
In the UK or another country?

Some of the forums discussing this have the starting date of posts noticing browser hijack, well back in 2006 before June.

The leaked BT report refers to a trial between 23rd September and 6th October. So what are people doing seeing this exact phenomenon prior to those dates - in April and May the same year?

I've made an attempt to contact the poster of the above and find out who his ISP were at that time.

snip - incorrect date reference.

Phorm PR care to comment?
In the interests of transparency and openness and as part of the online privacy revolution?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That's 24th June 2007, not 2006. Still not a BT customer though.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This one is from May 2006.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just maybe what if the trials caught a few other ISP customers just maybe BT retail and BT wholesale are not as far apart as we are lead to believe. With ISPs using managed while others manage their own what if BT retail do the managed side for BT wholesale putting customers for other ISPs into the pot Possibly ( just a thought) Could explain it then again he coudl be a VM customer and this would prove VM did try this on customers around the same time.... Not that I am saying they did just a possibliity...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It "may" be possible to get the original ISP from the original poster using the contact info, but I'm already signed up with more forums than I can cope with.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

We are finding this stuff,but are we getting it out ? This is not a criticism of anyone here. Cross my heart and hope to die in a cellar full of rats.
Are we getting through that we know that they know, or if they didnt know they should have known and they do now cos we've told them.

Philj

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If by 'they' you mean the parties involved, such as Phorm and BT I think they are very aware of what is happening on the anti-DPI side of the camp - a good example of this was the FOI bunff Dephormation Pete ( I think it was) and perhaps several others received; within which was an e-mail from BT suggesting a delay (one of many) in the trials and linked an article on nodpi.org as the reason. The article in question was the one Alexander later partly retracted upon receipt of further information.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You can rest assured the Phorm and BT PR henchmen are reading this forum.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just informational, not sure its significant, 121Media (UK) are listed as a non trading company in any case;

121MEDIA (UK) LIMITED
Status: Active - Proposal to Strike off

Accounts are very overdue.

121MEDIA (EUROPE) LIMITED is still listed as active, but again showing accounts overdue.

Previous trading name ADINTELLIGENCE EUROPE LIMITED

From www.companieshouse.gov.uk (Webcheck).

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Human Nature is to avoid a confrontation if there is a way around it. I think the best advice at the moment is to continue to relay the information to everyone you can.

If BT do trial this system then at least they will have a much better idea of what to do about it.


Nothing new but plenty of info in one place.
http://www.wayneporter.com/2008/06/10/phorm/

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme.

CA describe People on Page as a hijacker.

"Hijacker: Any software that resets your browser's settings to point to other sites. Hijacks may reroute your info and address requests through an unseen site, capturing that info. In such hijacks, your browser may behave normally, but be slower."

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thank you for this link. Since Baroness Miller's single (but singularly significant) post to this forum, she has been good to her word to raise the debate of online data security.

Baroness Miller's assurance that the Liberal Democrats in both Houses will work hard to ensure the better regulation of data protection both off- and on-line will have made those who want to sell the personal data of net users as a commodity, sit up and take notice.

Baroness Miller is the Liberal Democrat Home Affairs Spokesperson and no doubt follows the continuing debate here when her schedule permits.

I don't think it is presumptious to express the thanks again of all contributors here for her engaging in an issue that thousands of the British electorate consider very important.

Thank you Baroness Sue Miller!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Seconded, and if your MP is an LD, make sure they are aware of the Baroness' efforts. The campaign in the Commons is a little on the cool side since Don Foster's Early Day Motion and Phorm's PR offensive.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

My MP is a Lib Dem. I emailed him a while ago now asking if he would sign the EDM (started by one of his fellow Lib Dems, & signed by various "high profile" fellow Lib Dems). The only reply I ever got was a standard one from one of his staff, & AFAIK he has never signed the EDM.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Found another Phorm/Kent domain...

LucasDylan.com

Registrant:
Kent Ertugrul
Kent Ertugrul
6 Cite Varenne
Paris, FR 75007
FR
Email: kentert@compuserve.com

---------- Post added at 19:24 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------

Woah. Now this is weird. I've been following a complex trail of domains that typically vanish into oblivion.

But looking at LucasDylan.com (registered by Kent) has revealed an interesting link;

www.LucasDylan.com = 207.44.142.4 = yeshua.kristos.org

Now, have a look at www.kristos.org. Christian Internet Marketing??

As I look through these domains, the name "David Crawford" keeps cropping up. He is also the owner of kristos.org.

Not sure what it means, but it is more data, if not more info.

:erm:

"Our mission is to place believers in the top spots in the natural search engine results pages so that they get the business, instead of non-believers, success causing them to become tithers and givers in their own circles."

"The Kristos Group - Handing the Internet World to Believers"

Which begs a question in the context of targeted advertising.

Don't get me wrong, but I'm sure I remember a more generous marketing pitch in our local church. "Love your neighbour as yourself" etc.

Blimey.

Politics. Crime. Commerce. Now Religion in the mix.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well I could follow that one up couldn't I??

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Another address:

peopleonpage, inc
Kent Ertugrul
26, Avenue Kleber
Paris, 75006 FR
207.44.142.4 peopleonpage.com
207.44.142.4 LUCASDYLAN.COM
66.98.188.54 download.peopleonpage.com

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That's not Religion it's a gross misuse of any Religious Belief!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

So that's why your business ADSL connection was targeted.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Not a business connection. Sorry-have to kill that theory. I'm on a residential BT connection.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think that this is one of the most profound of all statements from the point of view of this whole debate.

Tracking someone from their phormed residential internet connection puts e-commerce at risk. So many people interact with businesses which they are connected to from a residential connection. Having a DPI system sitting on that data stream - in your worst nightmare no business sys-admin would think about homeworkers having everything they do intercepted by DPI.

There are so many small website owners that I have had contact with over the last few years. The majority use their HTML editor to upload pages to their server. The rest use an editor supplied by their web host. Most hosting is done through cPanel or Plesk without any https to protect emails and file uploads. All done on port 80 and not ftp.
Children interact with the school intranet - not https.

It must be the exception rather than the rule for a business site not to interact with the owner/webmaster on port 80 and have everything now being offered to pass through the DPI system. All those personal details stored away in a database and looked at from time to time, via port 80.

BT really do have to answer the question of how non port 80 traffic avoids being intercepted by the DPI system.
And ... The ISPs really are leaving themselves open to all sorts of problems if they don't warn their customers about the risks of using port 80 for any web traffic.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

So we now of a conspiracy that could be the next blockbuster at the cinema. Corporate, government, privacy international, payments to government funds, large amounts paid one way or another perhaps for favours, then the icing on the cake once he had the internet stitched up under his thumb. The internet editing to only allow what he felt was allowed to show. All conspiracy possibly true maybe pie in the sky but bottom line is you cannot trust this guy... Dig deeper there is perhaps more skeletons in the closet..

Well done all we could have a best seller once we have all the jigsaw pieces..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

BT really do have to answer the question of how non port 80 traffic avoids being intercepted by the DPI system.
And ... The ISPs really are leaving themselves open to all sorts of problems if they don't warn their customers about the risks of using port 80 for any web traffic.

And the moment they warn their customers, the DPI profiler becomes uneconomic.
Catch 22 I think!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just to help your theory along a bit madslug...

I run two charity websites, one is a church site, one an inter-church social action charity site.

One is with BT Domains, and I use their sitebuilder plus FTP Explorer to maintain it - from my home via my residential BT broadband line.
The other is with an independent site host, maintained partly via their web based interface, but mostly by FTP explorer - again from home.

I had extensive discussions with BT (following the Webwise revelations) about our online forums, our forums included ones for children which were closed, invitation only to establish whether those would be profiled and they said they wouldn't go behind a password screen (but I don't trust them or their system not to expose that). since changing hosts I lost the forums and haven't actually re-established them.

I also ran a calendar system that got hacked so I dumped most interactive content - I couldn't afford to purchase the more secure commercial solutions and was using open source ones.

May main current beef with BT is their total failure to engage on copright and intellectual property issues. They simply say they can infer consent because its on the web and I allow Google.

I think there are a number of current issues and legal cases being decided around Europe, involving commercial spats over website copyright and intellectual property, where copyright has specifically been cited in the cases and write-ups afterwards, that will have a direct impact on the Webwise/Phorm website copyright issue. I've decided to chase at least one of them up directly to ask the firm concerned if their concern for their site copyright might extend to the Webwise project.

*****************

Further to the above paragraph, I've just composed a letter to a company currently making a fuss about the copyright of their website, to tell them about Webwise and Phorm, and the impact it could have on their site's revenue earning potential, and wondered if we needed a flyer/information leaflet that particularly focusses on that topic but is easily understood by a non-techie, non-legal person like a PA who would be deciding whether to bin it or pass it on for further consideration. I'm sending them the Phorm flyer, but it doesn't say much about websites, and it is website copyright that this letter is about, specifically where commercial interests are paramount.

If nothing else, if this company got involved it would generate headlines. Their CEO is a bit of a pit-bull when it comes to such issues.

Anyone interested in doing a Website copyright version of the Phorm flyer?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just emailed NSPCC for their take on this regarding the safety of their site and children online

phil

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If recent events hadn't made me slightly paranoid I'd have ignored the possible link between the possible financial Plights of Nebuad & Phorm & this recent Spam Explosion.

http://www.computerworld.com/action/...c=news_ts_head

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What a good idea, that company will get headlines.

There is this (by phormwatch) openletter which covers the issues from the point of view of a business.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Phorm share price going up

http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=PHRX.L

Up 816.67 (63.64%)

something going on ?


Phil

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Oh, don't even suggest such things. The world is much more innocent than that.

However, the level of spam is such that I have not yet had the usual acknowledgment from netcraft for the spam emails I forwarded to them from my little honey traps. Each day I have received many of the CNN emails, and each one pointed to a different site - all around the world.
Just sent through 5 more copies on the CNN phishing mail and each one pointed to a site that is not on the phishing list.

So much for someone offering 'free phishing protection' - what a scam if compromised websites are not on the list. I have seen com1.ru in a few mails - looks like they belong to agava.com who sell anti-spam and firewalls.

It is just so easy to harvest the logon details of anyone using cPanel if you have access to the data stream. Where was I reading about the botnet software being sold that leaves a backdoor open to send all the click stream back to mama?

*****

Just a thought for the techies. If someone who is phormed gets harvested by a botnet. The DPI system is protected by only being open to a restricted range of IP addresses.
Now there is a botnet, with a backdoor, passing through the DPI system ....

I do hope that someone employs a security expert very soon.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This Kristos group... Jesus believes in the miracles of Collagen weight loss, Xango Juice, amongst many others.

So why is a domain registered to Kent Ertugrul (www.LucasDylan.com = 207.44.142.4 = yeshua.kristos.org) hosted on a Kristos server?

And what is Kent's link to David Crawford, and the Kristos business?

I'm off to bed. If someone wouldn't mind dropping a line to Emma Sanderson and friends, I'd be grateful. I'm sure its completely innocent, and BT's due diligence will assure me its all perfectly legal.

:wtf:

---------------------------------------------
COLLAGENWEIGHTLOSS.COM

Registrant:
The Kristos Group, LLC
P.O. Box 56189
Phoenix, Arizona 85079
United States

Domain Name: COLLAGENWEIGHTLOSS.COM
Created on: 08-Oct-02
Expires on: 08-Oct-08
Last Updated on: 08-Oct-07

Administrative Contact:
Crawford, David
The Kristos Group, LLC
P.O. Box 56189
Phoenix, Arizona 85079
United States
2063397286 Fax -- 2063397286

---------------------------------------------
XANGO-JUICE.US

Domain Name: XANGO-JUICE.US
Domain ID: D4530911-US
Sponsoring Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.
Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 146
Registrar URL (registration services): whois.godaddy.com

Registrant Name: David Crawford
Registrant Organization: The Kristos Group, LLC
Registrant Address1: P.O. Box 56189
Registrant City: Phoenix
Registrant State/Province: Arizona
Registrant Postal Code: 85079
Registrant Country: United States
Registrant Country Code: US

---------------------------------------------

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Unlikely - on a deal of 200 shares.

It is interesting that these shares are holding the 2000 mark - are these the shares that were used to raise the finance this year, or is that the PHRM listed shares. There seems to be very little trade in the PHRX shares (no USA market?).

BTW - even though there were whispers here, this last week did not see the usual Friday share price rise. Maybe everyone followed the 'sell in May and go away' rule. On that basis, there will be a rise in price around the end of August.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Pete

You must have made some sort of mistake here.

British Telecom. Virgin Media.

These companies are household names in the UK. There is no way they could have any business interest with another public company with a CEO mixed up with this.

British Telecom. Virgin Media.

The boards of these companies would never allow their brand names to be associated with such things.

British Telecom. Virgin Media.

These UK brand names would certainly perform due diligence investigations on any potential business alliance.

Wouldn't they? :confused:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That is not the main xango site so he is probably doing no more than using xango to earn some money. Unless you are the brand owner, using something like DPI to promote the brand is not going to do you any good.

At the end of the day, the probability of a conspiracy is very high. Like most conspiracies there will be a lot of false leads. The ones to follow are the ones that can be tied into the money. The best list for those are the channels that can't be used by the advertisers. Now that you mention it: religion ...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

British Telecom. Virgin Media.

Household names. No way they could have failed to cover this issue.

Could they?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The Possible link to this is also CNN dot com & the way the analysis has been done on the Phorm System.

Question is if they "were or are " responsible for this Spam, it may well be due to the CEO's ego that CNN dot com was chosen as the link for the spam?

I'm off to bed got a headache & I hope I'm totally wrong!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I know it's easy to consider a lot of kit, supposedly doing nothing, sat on a very fast internet connection.

It's also easy to consider that the kit may have been supplied and fitted by a company with, let us just say, an "unfortunate" history.

It might also be possible to conceive that ex-employees might know a lot about this kit and that they might have "unfortunate" connections with people who cause lots of problems on the internet.

But it is absolutely inconceivable that household names like British Telecom and Virgin Media would have any connection with it, whatsoever.

Isn't it? :confused:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Pete-

Do you run any linux machines? Do you want to take over ownership of the entity-relationship diagram?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks. The phormwatch letter will be flying off to Dublin next week. Just what I needed to highliight copyright issues to this particular company.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

To Philj

Wrong Phorm, this is the one you want PHRM.L

http://www.iii.co.uk/investment/deta...PHRM.L&it%3Dle

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

hypothesis,
Gordon the gopher is passing the buck on this because he wants to spy on the likes of Ebay etc looking for undeclared income and cant do it himself cos he's p'd everybody off with his money grabbing tax increases. I'm sure he'd like this done for him so he can distance himself from it.

Philj

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

All Parties seem to want the Power at the moment, but not the Responsibility, the result is growing Chaos!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7545766.stm )

Is this just the usual standard of BBC journalism or have we moved to a parallel universe? The HO is is unaware of the earlier trails !!?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

With it being the HO, failing to check the legalities of any proposed new Commercial System Properly, would you call that Incompetence or Negligence?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

3x2

Welcome to the Great Banana Republic of Britain.

For Sale One Government, slightly tarnished, one owner
reason for sale MONEY

Philj

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Relevant to how Phorm may be lobbyng Parliament, but this should not become Political!

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05...lobby_openess/

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

>There is this (by phormwatch) openletter which covers the issues from the point of view of a business.

This really feels unfinished to me. Anyone want to finish it?

I think we should update the links, too.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just to update the phishing element on this spam - the reply I had back from netcraft says "The URL you recently submitted could not be accepted as a phishing site by the Netcraft Anti-Phishing Team, for the following reason:

The Netcraft Toolbar does not block this type of site.
See http://toolbar.netcraft.com/help/faq/#whattoreport
for details of the types of sites that we block."

So much for thinking that netcraft do a good job of recording malware sites - perhaps this explains the reason? - "We will also block URLs that return malicious or virus infested executable files, but only if either BitDefender or ClamAV detects a problem with the executable." - so fake flash updates that leave computers open to downloads of multiple malware don't get counted.

For those who believe that the anti-phishing feature of Webwise is good and an improvement on browser security, I have only one thing to say: a fool and his privacy are soon parted.

For those who want to get out the basic message about Webwise, this non-existant security feature being 'sold' as anti-phishing is probably more dangerous to ISP customers than anything else they could 'put onto' their computers.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Does anyone here subscribe to PC Pro.

I'm seething at this month's edition (October 2008), in particular an article by Davey Winder "BT 2008 Information Security Journalist of the Year"

The article is 'Is Phorm good or bad' Davey Winder investigates.
It contains nothing but quotes from Phorm, various media agencies and 'experienced' marketing hands.
He also does the usual comparisons with clubcards and Google. Protestors are summed up as "The media feeding frenzy, both in print and online has been encouraged by privacy advocates and opinionated bloggers alike.

The article concludes with "If you want free content, you need advertising - get over it".

Well I've got over it, I've cancelled my subscription and I've emailed them to tell them why.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

So far, the FoI requests have shown that the government bodies have not been given any information upon which to base a technical review. PR and spin is all that they have received.

Also, don't forget that the campaigners see DPI, UID and OIX as one system. When Phorm talk to anyone DPI is not even considered.

The UID contains no personal information and the OIX is outside the ISP so has no way of picking up any personal data. "No personal information" is the one constant when it comes to adware and is what makes it so attractive to the brand ad networks.

The ISPs want to sell our data, the brands want to use that data. They are the real enemy in all of this. In the UK we basically have a monopoly when it comes to ISPs so there is no choice. When it comes to brands, can you imagine a world where just one brand is boycotted? - imagine no one buying Pepsi or Coke and only buying shop labeled cola.

It is the consumers who are between a rock and a hard place. It is the consumers who need to be protected. That is what the laws should do.