Cable Forum - The state benefits system mega-thread.

These are the words of just a few people regarding PIP and it sadly does not make for good reading.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...assessment#_=_

It would be better, in my view, if GPs, and where appropriate, consultants, were charged with responsibility for assessments, with their decisions monitored to ensure they were carrying out the task correctly. They could be paid a fee for carrying out this function.

After all, the GPs are closest to their patients, know their respective histories, and should be able to distinguish between those with genuine disabilities and those who were trying to milk the system.

I am completely opposed to the demeaning tests that people claiming benefits have to go through.

However, false claimants who lie in a bid to get a grant they shouldn't have should be punished severely. After all, they are the reason why the State has to be so cautious about who should receive these benefits.

nomadking

09-10-2018 15:32

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

GPs do not know everything about a patient. GPs ARE asked about the claimant. There will be tests that provide proof of a particular condition, but the rest is merely what the patient/claimant says. The emphasis for the GPs is to believe the patient simply because there is no apparent reason for them to lie.

PIP form for GPs.

Quote:

6. Effects of the disabling condition{s) on day to day life

ESA

Quote:

4. . If known from your knowledge of the patient, please tick the boxes.that apply and provide a brief explanation if your patient has difficulties with any of the following activities.

Taf	09-10-2018 18:06

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

DLA and PIP are very different. The former is all about your disability, the latter (and new replacement for adults) is how it affects your day-to-day life.

Many with disabilities never see their GP for their disabilities, our twins for example.

You get various points that have to add up to get each part of the award. The mobility part is hammering many people, especially those who need a Blue Badge or Motabilty Car.

http://www.mybenefitsandwork.co.uk/pip/indexxx.php

Angua

09-10-2018 18:14

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 35965847)

Exactly. They have squeezed the criteria and made the distances less realistic. How many people actually live close enough to a bus stop that they could manage the distance when walking that far would physically wipe them out, or in less severe cases get them lost.

OLD BOY

10-10-2018 11:46

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35965832)

GPs do not know everything about a patient. GPs ARE asked about the claimant. There will be tests that provide proof of a particular condition, but the rest is merely what the patient/claimant says. The emphasis for the GPs is to believe the patient simply because there is no apparent reason for them to lie.

PIP form for GPs.

ESA

Which, unfortunately, is naive.

I didn't say that GPs should be asked about the claimant, I said they should assess the patient, with guidance from a consultant where necessary.

denphone

10-10-2018 12:18

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35965949)

Which, unfortunately, is naive.

I didn't say that GPs should be asked about the claimant, I said they should assess the patient, with guidance from a consultant where necessary.

One can't lie when there is clear medical evidence from the consultant supporting someone's medical condition..

OLD BOY

10-10-2018 13:10

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35965969)

One can't lie when there is clear medical evidence from the consultant supporting someone's medical condition..

Which is why those with a medical condition that prevents them from working should not have to go through demeaning tests.

What is naive is just taking someone's word for it that they are not fit to work. There will always be those who try to take unfair advantage, and they make it more difficult for genuine claimants.

nomadking

10-10-2018 14:04

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Medical conditions can affect people to differing degrees. Some "conditions" have no actual proof other than the word of the patient/claimant. Classic example is back pain.

denphone

11-10-2018 21:48

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Well the warning signs are there for all to see and if they are not heeded then the price the government will pay will be considerable.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45824590

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-like-poll-tax

Quote:

Work and Pensions Secretary Esther McVey defended the new benefit system amid reports 3.2 million households will lose more than £2,000 year.

Quote:

Ms McVey is reported to have privately told cabinet colleagues that many claimants could lose as much as £200 a month as a result of the switch to universal credit.

Quote:

The former prime minister Sir John Major said on Thursday that the welfare overhaul could be as damaging to the Conservatives as the poll tax was in the 1980s.

Damien

17-10-2018 16:50

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45892109

Tens of thousands of people on sickness benefits will receive backdated payments averaging £5,000 following government errors.

Quote:

The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) has revealed it is paying more than £1.5bn owing to the mistakes.

Some people have already received payouts of more than £10,000.

The mistaken calculations were made when people were moved on to the main sickness benefit, the Employment and Support Allowance (ESA).

denphone

17-10-2018 17:02

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

The warning signs are all there for the DWP and the Government given that the large-scale transfer of claimants to the new Universal Credit system will not happen until November 2020 now because if the same problems happen with Universal Credit as has happened when ESA was rolled out then it will make the ESA roll out problems look like a tea party.

Taf	17-10-2018 18:48

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

UC is a great way to cover up underpayments as it's all lumped together and not broken down into components.

I called the DWP today as I thought my son was not getting the rate of ESA he qualified for a while back.

Over an hour on hold until I got to speak with a numpty that spoke very poor English.

"Ah yes, I see the problem" after 20 minutes of explaining the situation and being told I was wrong. "The correct payment will be made at the end of the month, but arrears will take a little longer".

Maggy

18-10-2018 10:04

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

It's the 'audits' that occur after the health assessor has passed the original case as acceptable that have been causing issues because it's not clear who has been doing the 'auditing' which strangely reverse what was decided at the original assessment. It's been found in some cases that the audits have removed some of the medical evidence entirely..and this has been in cases of health issues and disabilities that are progressive not regressive. I would provide a link but I'm unable to find the interview I saw on the BBC yesterday morning.

Hugh	18-10-2018 21:55

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Can’t find the BBC link, but here us one from the Scottish Herald.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...tampered-with/

Quote:

BENEFITS chiefs are under fire amid fears thousands of claimants may have had their health reports “tampered” with.

Almost 70,000 people who receive disability support have had their assessments “audited” by the Department for Work and Pensions since 2015.

But critics have raised concerns such audits are being carried out by officials who were not present during the initial assessment.

It comes after SNP MP Marion Fellows, who represents Motherwell and Wishaw, highlighted the case of one constituent who suffers from multiple sclerosis.

The 50-year-old had his payments stopped after an “auditor” altered sections of a nurse’s report.

The original said the man, from Motherwell, required “specialist input”, while the audited copy said he did not.

Likewise, an assessment that he “needs prompting” to prepare a meal was changed to say he could prepare a simple meal himself.

Official figures show there were 11,705 audits of Personal Independence Payments between January and August this year.

nomadking

18-10-2018 22:13

Re: The state benefits system mega-thread. Many merged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35967050)

Can’t find the BBC link, but here us one from the Scottish Herald.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...tampered-with/

Those examples are based merely on what the claimant says. Just because an assessment says "patient claims X" doesn't make it true. Eg if somebody is claiming to need prompting to prepare a meal then there has to collaborating indicators, Eg are they underweight, do they need prompting about other activities.

Quote:

Prompting’ means reminding, encouraging or explaining by another person. For example: may apply to claimants who lack motivation to prepare and cook a simple meal on the majority of days due to a mental health condition, or who need to be reminded how to prepare and cook food on the majority of days.

Quote:

4.31 Some respondents felt that the points awarded for the need for supervision and prompting were not high enough in the assessment. We appreciate that an individual who needs either supervision or prompting may face significant barriers and costs and we believe that this has been reflected in the assessment by ensuring descriptors that refer to needing supervision or prompting attract an appropriate score. Some individuals who require supervision or prompting on just a small number of activities may not receive a score that would entitle them to the benefit. However, many individuals who need this type of support will do so in multiple activities. In such cases they may score sufficient points to entitle them to the benefit. As such we believe that our proposals are fair.

Auditing is a standard part of the training process for assessors. There are also other types and reasons.

Quote:

Lot-wide audit ................................ ................................ ....................... 134
Approval-related audit ................................ ................................ ........... 135
New entrant audit ................................ ................................ .................. 135
Rolling audit ................................ ................................ .......................... 135
Targeted audit ................................ ................................ ....................... 135

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