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Damien 02-02-2017 14:23
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
The way Trump's ban applied to greencard holders, legitimate and legal residents of the United States, was either callous or incompetent. He either did it intentionally to provoke or is was extraordinarily badly managed. It is said Bannon was the guy who wanted to ensure it applied to them so maybe it wasn't Trump himself but that hardly matters.

That deserves the strongest possible criticism. Every time something like that happens he'll get it again.

Mick 02-02-2017 15:22
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35883636)
The way Trump's ban applied to greencard holders, legitimate and legal residents of the United States, was either callous or incompetent. He either did it intentionally to provoke or is was extraordinarily badly managed. It is said Bannon was the guy who wanted to ensure it applied to them so maybe it wasn't Trump himself but that hardly matters.

That deserves the strongest possible criticism. Every time something like that happens he'll get it again.
The issue of Sally Yates (Acting Attorney General in place by Obama) being fired. According to Press Secretary Sean Spicer, there is still a number of Obama's team that are in vital Admin roles as they are still in final stages of transition. Sally Yates being a President Obama pick, who publicly defied Trump's Order. Spicer claimed the Executive Order went through her office for legality checks and it came back fine.

There could be internal elements at play here where they (Obama's old team) could be trying to sabotage processes as a form of protest, we have already seen reports the Democrats boycotting confirmation hearings and not attending sessions where votes are required to confirm Trump's cabinet picks, is why the GOP have changed the rules on required voting numbers in last day or so because they are fed up of the delayed tactics being played out by the Dems.

You have to look at it from this angle, Democrats have lost the White House, and they have no standing in both chambers of Congress. All they have left is to protest.

Osem 02-02-2017 15:29
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35883636)
The way Trump's ban applied to greencard holders, legitimate and legal residents of the United States, was either callous or incompetent. He either did it intentionally to provoke or is was extraordinarily badly managed. It is said Bannon was the guy who wanted to ensure it applied to them so maybe it wasn't Trump himself but that hardly matters.

That deserves the strongest possible criticism. Every time something like that happens he'll get it again.
There you go. It deserves the strongest possible criticism? Really? To be fair, I don't think you mean that but that's what you've written and that's the bandwagon upon which a lot of people have jumped. I can think of many things he could do which would be deserving of far harsher criticism. The trouble is that virtually everything Trump says or does is attracting a reaction much of which is out of proportion and I think that's counter-productive because it becomes irrational and devalues the choice of words and action we ought to reserve for people far worse than Trump.

Damien 02-02-2017 16:02
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35883642)
There you go. It deserves the strongest possible criticism? Really? To be fair, I don't think you mean that but that's what you've written and that's the bandwagon upon which a lot of people have jumped. I can think of many things he could do which would be deserving of far harsher criticism. The trouble is that virtually everything Trump says or does is attracting a reaction much of which is out of proportion and I think that's counter-productive because it becomes irrational and devalues the choice of words and action we ought to reserve for people far worse than Trump.
Very strong criticism then. I don't actually have a scale of criticism, it's just a turn of phrase. Still whilst I accept that are worse people out there it isn't much of a defense and he is President of the United States.

Maggy 02-02-2017 16:48
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35883645)
Very strong criticism then. I don't actually have a scale of criticism, it's just a turn of phrase. Still whilst I accept that are worse people out there it isn't much of a defense and he is President of the United States.
:clap:

papa smurf 02-02-2017 17:27
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Trump's really in trouble now! Lily Allen, Paloma Faith and Frankie Boyle are among list of celebs, academics and politicians calling for massive demo against US President's state visit


looks like their releasing the top tards to tackle this .

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4XXuLxBx9
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Pierre 02-02-2017 17:36
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35883636)
The way Trump's ban applied to greencard holders, legitimate and legal residents of the United States, was either callous or incompetent. He either did it intentionally to provoke or is was extraordinarily badly managed. It is said Bannon was the guy who wanted to ensure it applied to them so maybe it wasn't Trump himself but that hardly matters.

That deserves the strongest possible criticism. Every time something like that happens he'll get it again.
I'd go for incompetent

Osem 02-02-2017 18:03
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35883645)
Very strong criticism then. I don't actually have a scale of criticism, it's just a turn of phrase. Still whilst I accept that are worse people out there it isn't much of a defense and he is President of the United States.
I agree and conceded that I didn't think you meant it. ;) I just think that this, for an awful lot of people, has become a very personal vendetta and the sort of abuse being hurled at Trump has more to do with that than anything he's actually done, just like the sort of abuse Ms Miller has been getting which you have cited elsewhere. I always question the logic of those who decry abuse, intimidation and extremism but don't mind engaging in it when it suits. What I'm saying isn't a defence of Trump, it's a comment on the mindset of those who jump on the bandwagon at everything he says, does and doesn't do regardless of any facts. They're like a baying mob and it's all too common nowadays sadly. For some people it might seem OK when it's Trump on the receiving end but it won't stop there will it...

Damien 02-02-2017 18:20
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35883662)
I agree and conceded that I didn't think you meant it. ;) I just think that this, for an awful lot of people, has become a very personal vendetta and the sort of abuse being hurled at Trump has more to do with that than anything he's actually done, just like the sort of abuse Ms Miller has been getting which you have cited elsewhere..
Well any threats are unacceptable obviously. No argument there. I am referring to criticism that comes without that threat though.

Osem 02-02-2017 18:33
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35883663)
Well any threats are unacceptable obviously. No argument there. I am referring to criticism that comes without that threat though.
That ought to be obvious but we're in a environment when it isn't and when high profile people like Madonna attack Trump's 'extremism' by referring to bombing the Whitehouse or it sets the tone for a great many people, including some mad enough to try it. I hope she won't be surprised when she's on the receiving end of similarly disgusting and threatening remarks. Is this really the way we want to go?

Hugh 02-02-2017 18:43
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35883666)
That ought to be obvious but we're in a environment when it isn't and when high profile people like Madonna attack Trump's 'extremism' by referring to bombing the Whitehouse or it sets the tone for a great many people, including some mad enough to try it. I hope she won't be surprised when she's on the receiving end of similarly disgusting and threatening remarks. Is this really the way we want to go?
What she actually said...

http://www.elle.com/culture/career-p...ch-transcript/
Quote:
It is the beginning of much needed change. Change that will require sacrifice, people. Change that will require many of us to make different choices in our lives, but this is the hallmark of revolution. So my question to you today is are you ready? I said, are you ready? Say yes, we are ready. Say, yes we are ready. One more time: you're ready.

"Yes, I'm angry. Yes, I am outraged. Yes, I have thought an awful lot of blowing up the White House, but I know that this won't change anything. We cannot fall into despair. As the poet, W.H. Auden once wrote on the eve of World War II: We must love one another or die.

"I choose love. Are you with me? Say this with me: We choose love. We choose love. We choose love."
Quite different meaning when read in context - in fact, the total opposite of what was reported...

Jacquesb 02-02-2017 18:47
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35883642)
There you go. It deserves the strongest possible criticism? Really? To be fair, I don't think you mean that but that's what you've written and that's the bandwagon upon which a lot of people have jumped. I can think of many things he could do which would be deserving of far harsher criticism. The trouble is that virtually everything Trump says or does is attracting a reaction much of which is out of proportion and I think that's counter-productive because it becomes irrational and devalues the choice of words and action we ought to reserve for people far worse than Trump.
Cant think of anyone worse than Trump at present.

Osem 02-02-2017 19:32
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacquesb (Post 35883668)
Cant think of anyone worse than Trump at present.
That's fine. I detest Corbyn but I'm not going to threaten him.

You serioulsy don't think that Putin is worse than Trump right now (we can't talk about the future of course). Over there in Putin's Russia they've just changed the law on domestic abuse in a most appalling way. I don't think Trump has assassinated anyone with polonium either but there's still time I suppose. You don't think the various murdering despots in Africa are worse? Seriously? Perhaps you can explain why maniacs like Robert Mugabe aren't worse than Donald Trump.




---------- Post added at 18:32 ---------- Previous post was at 18:28 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35883667)
What she actually said...

http://www.elle.com/culture/career-p...ch-transcript/ Quite different meaning when read in context - in fact, the total opposite of what was reported...
Yes, I am aware of that. I saw her actual speech on TV.

Note I didn't claim she said she wanted to bomb the Whitehouse, I said she referred to it and I did that deliberately. Furthermore, she didn't say that would be wrong, she said it wouldn't change anything, implying that it'd be fine if it did change something. If Trump had used terminology like that people like Madonna would have been up in arms. If people are going to rightly attack Trump for his choice of words (amongst other things) maybe they ought to be more careful with their own. Why did she even feel the need to talk about blowing up the Whitehouse FGS?

The fact that she's since felt the need to clarify what she meant would indicate that it wasn't the best choice of words but I doubt she'd make that concession for anything Trump has said because the entire agenda is to demonise virtually everything he says and does and that's just not credible.

richard s 02-02-2017 20:22
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
America First... Well done Mr Trump... If he did nothing and then some IS nutter(s) who got into the country posing as refugee's killed American's... He would be held to blame.

TheDaddy 02-02-2017 20:47
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35883631)
Perhaps nothing, actually if you go back, I have commented on how unpolitical he is that he don't act like the typical politician when talking, so you have no need to think you're reminding me of anything.

Also, nothing bizarre about my claim of you obsessing about his apparent small hands given how many times you go on about it.
I don't recall you commenting on how insecure and thin skinned he is, if you could point me to those posts I'd actually be interested and btw there's more to being a statesman than simply being a politician. Besides which I hardly go on about his child like hands, a line here and there mainly for my own amusement (which incidentally I won't be stopping doing) has suddenly turned into an obsession, if anyone has an obsession with trump here it's you, I might have done one post to many recently with the hand thing but the endless rebuttaling you indulge in is far more obsessive


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