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-   -   [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33700839)

Big Brian 17-05-2016 16:11
re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 
For those undecided on how they are going to vote on June 23rd try asking yourself these questions:

Whether or not the EU is a good or bad thing for the common man, what do you yourself think or believe? What does your gut instinct say to the following questions?

Do you want to be ruled by Brussels as part of a European Super State?

Do you think the money we send to the EU could be better spent in the UK?

Do you want your Justice System back?

Do you want to control Immigration more?


Do you believe the Government, IMF, BoE and all those who predict doom and gloom?

Do you think your lifestyle will improve if we leave the EU because of the money we'll save?

Do you believe the EU is a Democracy?

Do you seriously believe the UK benefits from being a Member of the EU better than it did in 1975?

Do you think more powers will be taken by Brussels if we stay in the EU?

Do you think jobs will be lost if we leave the EU?

Do you believe those who say we would become a Banana Republic?

Do you believe in British Sovereignty?

Do you think the EU will reform if we remain?

Do you think they really care about the UK or is it that they need our trade?

Hopefully this will help make up your minds. I can think of lots more questions and I'm sure you all can too.

Mr K 17-05-2016 21:16
re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Brian (Post 35838106)
For those undecided on how they are going to vote on June 23rd try asking yourself these questions:

Whether or not the EU is a good or bad thing for the common man, what do you yourself think or believe? What does your gut instinct say to the following questions?

Do you want to be ruled by Brussels as part of a European Super State? PREFERABLE TO BEING RUN BY BORIS FROM DOWNING ST.

Do you think the money we send to the EU could be better spent in the UK? IT WOULD BE SPENT ON TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH IF WE LEFT THE EU. THE POOR WOULD HAVE LESS PROTECTION AND WORKERS LESS RIGHTS.

Do you want your Justice System back? I WASN'T AWARE IT WENT ANYWHERE.

Do you want to control Immigration more? I WOULDN'T HAVE CONTROL OVER IMMIGRATION EITHER WAY ( AND THE ECONOMY AND HEALTH SERVICE IS DEPENDENT ON IMMIGRATION).


Do you believe the Government, IMF, BoE and all those who predict doom and gloom? THEY PROBABLY EXAGERRATE, BUT TOO MANY PEOPLE FROM USUALLY OPPOSING VIEWPOINTS HAVE COME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION. LEAVING THE EU WOULD BE MADNESS.

Do you think your lifestyle will improve if we leave the EU because of the money we'll save? NO, FOR MOST IT WILL BE VERY MUCH WORSE.

Do you believe the EU is a Democracy? YES, THERE ARE EU ELECTIONS.

Do you seriously believe the UK benefits from being a Member of the EU better than it did in 1975? ABOUT THE SAME PROBABLY.

Do you think more powers will be taken by Brussels if we stay in the EU? NOT IF WE DON'T AGREE.

Do you think jobs will be lost if we leave the EU? YES LOTS OF THEM.

Do you believe those who say we would become a Banana Republic? WELL, NIGEL FARAGE - A BANANA BY ANYONES STANDARDS... HE AND IS TYPE ARE THE FUTURE IF WE VOTE OUT.

Do you believe in British Sovereignty? YES, AND WE STILL HAVE IT WITH EU MEMBERSHIP.

Do you think the EU will reform if we remain? PROBABLY NOT, BUT SO WHAT? IT IS WHAT IT IS, AND ON BALANCE WE BENEFIT.

Do you think they really care about the UK or is it that they need our trade? WELL THEY NEED US AND WE NEED THEM.

Hopefully this will help make up your minds. I can think of lots more questions and I'm sure you all can too.
Tried to answer as honestly as I can Brian, and yes it has made up my mind.

Maggy 17-05-2016 22:15
re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35838086)
Then why don't you just vote as I suggested using your gut instinct. That'd be sensible given you clearly believe you have been given no facts and only have hyperbole and ranting to go on. One of the few benefits of age is experience so now's the time to really use it.
I probably will..but it would have been nice to have been treated as an adult by those who want my vote.

Gary L 17-05-2016 22:27
re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 
If you think Dave's a plonker. vote out.

papa smurf 18-05-2016 07:29
re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 
myths that David Cameron's peddling about what would happen if the UK decides to leave the EU


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-leave-EU.html

TheDaddy 18-05-2016 07:45
re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35838129)
Tried to answer as honestly as I can Brian, and yes it has made up my mind.
Its made me lean towards staying rather than leaving. Now isn't the right time to be leaving imo

heero_yuy 18-05-2016 08:33
re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35838163)
Its made me lean towards staying rather than leaving. Now isn't the right time to be leaving imo
This will be your only chance to leave. There won't be another time unless the EU implodes.

Osem 18-05-2016 09:29
re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35838168)
This will be your only chance to leave. There won't be another time unless the EU implodes.
Correct. If we stay in I have no doubt the EU and our current/future govts. will act to make any further attempts at us leaving more difficult in one way or another. Look how much it's taken to finally get us this referendum! We will not have more power or even the status quo, gradually we will have less power as has been the case during the entire period we've been members of the 'club'. That is the EU's undeniable raison d'etre after all.

It's always struck me as odd that devolution within the UK is being pursued on many levels - regionally and nationally, yet at the same time our glorious leaders feel we're better off being reduced to a fraction of a large EU whole with power wielded centrally and relentlessly from Brussels and Frankfurt in a fashion which does entirely the opposite and with the aim of taking away 'local' powers and reducing democracy. It's really quite surreal.

Anyway it's quite clear to me that this will be our one chance to get out in anything resembling an orderly fashion, if at all. I'll be going to my grave knowing I voted to take it.

Big Brian 18-05-2016 09:42
re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Brian (Post 35838106)
For those undecided on how they are going to vote on June 23rd try asking yourself these questions:

Whether or not the EU is a good or bad thing for the common man, what do you yourself think or believe? What does your gut instinct say to the following questions?

Do you want to be ruled by Brussels as part of a European Super State?

Do you think the money we send to the EU could be better spent in the UK?

Do you want your Justice System back?

Do you want to control Immigration more?

Though my mind was made up those are the questions I asked myself to see if I was right in my decision and according to those answers I believe I am correct in voting leave.


Do you believe the Government, IMF, BoE and all those who predict doom and gloom?

Do you think your lifestyle will improve if we leave the EU because of the money we'll save?

Do you believe the EU is a Democracy?

Do you seriously believe the UK benefits from being a Member of the EU better than it did in 1975?

Do you think more powers will be taken by Brussels if we stay in the EU?

Do you think jobs will be lost if we leave the EU?

Do you believe those who say we would become a Banana Republic?

Do you believe in British Sovereignty?

Do you think the EU will reform if we remain?

Do you think they really care about the UK or is it that they need our trade?

Hopefully this will help make up your minds. I can think of lots more questions and I'm sure you all can too.
Well let's go through them:

1. No. 2. YES. 3. YES. 4. YES. 5. NO. 6. YES. 7. NO. 8. NO. 9. YES. 10. NO. 11. NO. 12. YES. 13. NO. 14. NO.

That would make me vote leave.

Ignitionnet 18-05-2016 09:55
re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35838129)
Tried to answer as honestly as I can Brian, and yes it has made up my mind.
I credit you on your honesty, and on being more EUphile than Nick Clegg, et al. Even they at least try and pretend they think the EU will be reformed at some point. :tu:

arcimedes 18-05-2016 11:02
re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 
I have a few problems with Brian's questions but here are my answers and/or comments
1. I consider this question to be biased
2. Dont know
3. Also biased and emotive
4. No
5. Undecided
6. No
7. Yes
8. Dont know
9. I object to the word Brussels as I consider it emotive
10. Yes
11. No
12. Emotive anyway what does British sovereignty mean?
13. Yes
14. Dont know

Would that make me vote one way or the other? No

jonbxx 18-05-2016 11:14
re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 
Good set of questions there. Here are my answers;

Do you want to be ruled by Brussels as part of a European Super State?

If one existed, I would need to know more about it. However, at present, the system works pretty well

Do you think the money we send to the EU could be better spent in the UK?

No, I think the value for money we get from being in the EU is worth the 1% we spend on it. Thinking in purely cash terms is misleading, the value of customs union alone is worth it

Do you want your Justice System back?

Not quite sure what we have lost here? We have a justice system that seems to work pretty well. There are of course EU courts which rule of EU legislation.

Do you want to control Immigration more?

I would restrict immigration to allow people to work but that's in place already

Do you believe the Government, IMF, BoE and all those who predict doom and gloom?

More than Boris and the bloke that runs Wetherspoons

Do you think your lifestyle will improve if we leave the EU because of the money we'll save?

No, costs will increase and the value of the pound will drop

Do you believe the EU is a Democracy?

Very much so, more democratic than the UK, having proportional representation and no house of lords

Do you seriously believe the UK benefits from being a Member of the EU better than it did in 1975?

Yes, no trade tariffs and freedom of movement benefit the UK massively

Do you think more powers will be taken by Brussels if we stay in the EU?

Only if the UK government allow it to happen

Do you think jobs will be lost if we leave the EU?

Yes

Do you believe those who say we would become a Banana Republic?

No, but we would be financially poorer and our reputation globally would be seriously dented. The only world leader who wants us to leave is Vladimir Putin, every other nation thinks we should stay

Do you believe in British Sovereignty?

Yes, but we live in a global society. We have had treaties and agreements long before the EU. If you really want complete sovereignty, we would also need to leave the IMF, WTO, United Nations, etc. Basically, become North Korea.

Do you think the EU will reform if we remain?

Yes, I think this will be a catalyst for change

Do you think they really care about the UK or is it that they need our trade?

These can't be taken in isolation. We share a lot of values with our European neighbours and these are invaluable, especially when it comes to trade

Big Brian 18-05-2016 11:28
re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35838188)
Good set of questions there. Here are my answers;

Do you want to be ruled by Brussels as part of a European Super State?

If one existed, I would need to know more about it. However, at present, the system works pretty well

Do you think the money we send to the EU could be better spent in the UK?

No, I think the value for money we get from being in the EU is worth the 1% we spend on it. Thinking in purely cash terms is misleading, the value of customs union alone is worth it

Do you want your Justice System back?

Not quite sure what we have lost here? We have a justice system that seems to work pretty well. There are of course EU courts which rule of EU legislation.

Do you want to control Immigration more?

I would restrict immigration to allow people to work but that's in place already

Do you believe the Government, IMF, BoE and all those who predict doom and gloom?

More than Boris and the bloke that runs Wetherspoons

Do you think your lifestyle will improve if we leave the EU because of the money we'll save?

No, costs will increase and the value of the pound will drop

Do you believe the EU is a Democracy?

Very much so, more democratic than the UK, having proportional representation and no house of lords

Do you seriously believe the UK benefits from being a Member of the EU better than it did in 1975?

Yes, no trade tariffs and freedom of movement benefit the UK massively

Do you think more powers will be taken by Brussels if we stay in the EU?

Only if the UK government allow it to happen

Do you think jobs will be lost if we leave the EU?

Yes

Do you believe those who say we would become a Banana Republic?

No, but we would be financially poorer and our reputation globally would be seriously dented. The only world leader who wants us to leave is Vladimir Putin, every other nation thinks we should stay

Do you believe in British Sovereignty?

Yes, but we live in a global society. We have had treaties and agreements long before the EU. If you really want complete sovereignty, we would also need to leave the IMF, WTO, United Nations, etc. Basically, become North Korea.

Do you think the EU will reform if we remain?

Yes, I think this will be a catalyst for change

Do you think they really care about the UK or is it that they need our trade?

These can't be taken in isolation. We share a lot of values with our European neighbours and these are invaluable, especially when it comes to trade
Answered like a true Pro-European. Well Done. Tell me to the Remainers have a script they stick to cos you sound just like Cameron. Or could it be the leaflet the Government spent £9m. on, which btw I never got and I need something to start a bonfire in the garden, brainwashing you. You are all singing from the same Hymn sheet. Can't you at least give us your reasons for remaining instead of being a parrot?

Ignitionnet 18-05-2016 11:56
re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35838188)
Do you believe the EU is a Democracy?

Very much so, more democratic than the UK, having proportional representation and no house of lords
Understood. Please remind me when I got to vote for any members of the Commission, and of the powers the people I did get to vote for have in terms of bringing legislation forward.

Also be good to know when I was able to vote for the President of the European Council, the President of the European Union Commission or the President of the European Parliament.

I must've missed those elections.

jonbxx 18-05-2016 11:59
re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Brian (Post 35838192)
Answered like a true Pro-European. Well Done. Tell me to the Remainers have a script they stick to cos you sound just like Cameron. Or could it be the leaflet the Government spent £9m. on, which btw I never got and I need something to start a bonfire in the garden, brainwashing you. You are all singing from the same Hymn sheet. Can't you at least give us your reasons for remaining instead of being a parrot?
I have never voted for the Conservative party in my life and doubt I ever will. My wife thought I would flash in to flame when I crossed the boundary or Rickmansworth Conservative Club!

My opinions, and they are mine, are born out of working in Europe and with Europeans (my boss is German, the rest of my team are Belgian, French and Austrian) I work for a US company with a global reach and have some understanding of the pain of doing business in non-EU companies. I am a scientist by trade but love learning about modern history, especially the history post second world war of which the formation of the EU is a part.

However, the most important thing is that I do not trust the media, especially the press. They are all following their own agendas to put spin on issues. So, for example, the Mail says the EU is not democratic, I then don't take this on face value but look in to this and what do you know, it's not really true.

I did read the governments leaflet and found it wishy washy, without much evidence but a basis for me to investigate further. My mind was made up long before the leaflet came out I'm afraid but I will happily look in to anything that will prove me wrong.


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