Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

it would be possibly fair to say that if god did cause the floods then he probably did mudrer a few people. The bishop said as much when he stated that the problem with "environmental judgment is that it is indiscriminate".
Nice deity :erm:

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

Beg your pardon, but that's plain nonsense. Have a read of this:

(emphasis mine)

That's from an introduction to a research paper called 'The Role of Religion in Scientific Creativity', published by the Faraday Institute for Science and Religion at St Edmund's College, Cambridge.

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

So because many scientists are religious, then religion has played no detremental part in scientific development?
So all those objections to medical investigations using teachings learnt from Muslims was just a misunderstanding?
The papal decree forbidding the speculation and investigation before the big bang just never happened?
Galileo wasn't really put under house arrest?
There was really no religious objection to the idea that we aren't at the centre of the univese then?
Herbalists weren't burned as witches?
Cor. It's like an episode of Dallas, all a dream.

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

Maybe I missed a post, but how exactly is that relevant ? - Are the Faraday Institute trying to imply that had these 'scientists' not held such beliefs then they wouldn't have made any scientific discoveries ?

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

I think xaccers and Paul answered competently :)

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

The full research isn't online - you have to buy it. So, I can't outline the entirety of what they are saying. However from other occasions I've heard this said, the basic thrust of it is, many of the great scientists in our history were motivated by their religious conviction. They wanted to explore and explain the universe because of their faith, not in spite of it, and belived that they were honouring God in discovering how he made the universe tick and being in awe of him for it.

I don't believe anyone is saying Faraday wouldn't have made any discoveries had he not been religious. However your question misunderstands the point that Ramrod made and my reply to it. Ramrod suggested that religion has been a dampener on scientific discovery, whereas it can be shown that many scientists were motivated to make scientific discovery because of their religion.

As a sweeping generalisation, his claim is pretty easy to shoot down.

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

erm....in the olden days, everyone had to profess religious faith or they were very likely to find themselves being burned to death......because religion is oh so very tolerant of unbelievers :disturbd:
It's a bit like saying breathing is responsible for scientific invention because all the scientists who have ever lived have breathed.....

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

I get the feeling you're not in the mood for a calm and rational exchange of ideas today.

Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch-hunt

Doesn't really match up with the period of scientific discovery in which Faraday and others were working. And your parallel with breathing ... sorry, but that's just silly.

I don't really have time to spend the afternoon Googling for pages that demonstrate you're simply deploying assumptions and prejudices in place of reasoned argument, much as it's fun.

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

lol......
So religion isn't trying to subvert the theory of evolution as we speak?
Scientific basis for the age of the earth....recognised by fundamentalists? Nope!
Galileo was threatened with death unless he recanted....
Early anatomical study (and hence the progress of medicine) was banned (on pain of burning.......I wonder how many millions have died because of delayed discoveries on that front?
The church persisted in believing that the earth was the center of the universe for a millenium.....setting back astronomy and associated sciences.
Darwins ideas were (and still are)rubbished because god created man, not evolution....
......against this you put the statement that many scientists were religious :D

I agree, however, that religion was the impertus behind much study but once the study came up with conclusions that religion didn't like then that study and it's conclusions was surpressed.

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

None of these statements - many of which I disagree with, to varying degrees - support the basic, wide-ranging generalisation you made earlier, namely:

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

Interested parties can access the Faraday papers via this link.

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

None of them? Are you sure?! :confused: Seems to me that they do support my assertion....:shrug:

edit......anyway, sorry for making a comment that has dragged us so far off topic :nworthy:

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

oh joy your still at it

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

Sorry Chris but if your saying religion has never held back science well i don't know what planet your on hell even the local catholic priest that i have regular debates with acknowledges that religion has delayed scientific advance whenever it could.

Re: Floods are a judgement on society, say bishops
 

So, has everyone had enough time to ponder whether they agree or disagree with the comments made by the church? Show of hands, anyone...?