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-   -   Liz Truss Resigns [Who'll be the next Prime Minister?] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33711301)

Damien 17-10-2022 19:57
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36137291)
You’re correct, what she’s done is incompetence on a scale that ought to be impossible at the hands of someone who has managed to attain such high office.
It really is extraordinary that you wonder how it was allowed to happen or at least what has stopped similar things from happening in decades past.

Did the civil service fail here? Is this on the MPs for forgetting that basic competence is a prerequisite for the role as they allow partisanship to overrule everything else? Is it a failure of the electorate to punish candidates who don't seem up to the job?

Watching this clip from the debates can make you angry when Sunak is trying to warn everyone the consequences of her plans and she simply dismisses it all but faced no consequence: https://youtu.be/OtxKAFUo27g?t=147 (2:26 in)

Sephiroth 17-10-2022 20:06
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36137327)
And realistically how does this play out ? GE? Truss somehow clings on ? The party manages to unite ?
Realistically? Sir Graham Brady tells Truss to resign., which she does (because an untenable position is just that).

A Tory MP's vote follows and the King can say "Dear-oh-dear" again.

Imo. All contingent on Truss reading the runes.

jfman 17-10-2022 20:10
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
I’m not really sure how the Civil Service could have failed - Truss/Kwarteng clearly made up back of a cigarette paper policy making based on the fantasies of think tank a decade earlier.

The prudent thing would of course be to have waited, built an evidence base for the policy, costed it, waited on the OBR report. As Kwarteng attempted to defend the policy he pointed out it was announced a mere few days after the Queen’s funeral.

Chris 17-10-2022 20:41
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137329)
It really is extraordinary that you wonder how it was allowed to happen or at least what has stopped similar things from happening in decades past.

Did the civil service fail here? Is this on the MPs for forgetting that basic competence is a prerequisite for the role as they allow partisanship to overrule everything else? Is it a failure of the electorate to punish candidates who don't seem up to the job?

Watching this clip from the debates can make you angry when Sunak is trying to warn everyone the consequences of her plans and she simply dismisses it all but faced no consequence: https://youtu.be/OtxKAFUo27g?t=147 (2:26 in)
It’s oft repeated but it’s true: the PM is the person most likely to have the confidence of the House of Commons. Or they are supposed to be. Polling the wider party membership has resulted in a party leader few Tory MPs wanted. They do not have confidence in her as Prime Minister regardless of what they say in public.

The failure here is that - not for the first time in recent years - something that is supposed to operate simply on an acceptance of the “right thing to do” has been upended. Had Johnson simply been replaced with the candidate clearly favoured by the one place it actually matters in our constitution - the House of Commons - then Liz Truss would have got nowhere near Downing Street.

papa smurf 17-10-2022 20:54
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137326)
Yeah, that might go. It's already something they've suggested they might cut after the next election and it's such an expense they'll be tempted. If only because they've cut elsewhere so much.
that'll be the end of the pensioner vote, us oldies don't react well to being shat on.

mrmistoffelees 17-10-2022 20:57
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36137358)
that'll be the end of the pensioner vote, us oldies don't react well to being shat on.
Not sure why pensioners shouldn’t be exempt from being shat on after all we are all in this together (collectively being shat on)

1andrew1 17-10-2022 20:59
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 36137363)
Not sure why pensioners shouldn’t be exempt from being shat on after all we are all in this together (collectively being shat on)
Yes, I think it's likely the triple lock will take a breather for a while. Agreed that it's not just the workforce that should have to take a hit.

jfman 17-10-2022 21:01
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36137358)
that'll be the end of the pensioner vote, us oldies don't react well to being shat on.
Just think about us youngsters being shat on our whole lives.

1andrew1 17-10-2022 22:04
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Robert Peston Jeremy Hunt tells me he can't commit to uprating pensions by inflation, or benefits by inflation. Nor can he commit to Truss's promise to increase defence spending to 3% of GDP. "I didn't commit to anything because I want to be honest with people, it's a very serious situation"
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1582081885068746752

---------- Post added at 22:04 ---------- Previous post was at 21:56 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36137375)
61 mate and you only get out what you put in to workplace pensions.
If we're talking about final salary schemes they're not based on what you put in (as most private sector plans are these days) but they're based on amongst other things, your final salary.

Pierre 17-10-2022 22:24
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36137394)
If we're talking about final salary schemes they're not based on what you put in (as most private sector plans are these days) but they're based on amongst other things, your final salary.
Pretty much all final salary schemes were canned over a decade ago.

Any one such a scheme were transferred onto other plans.

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 22:32
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137392)
What does fault have to do with it?

The Government decides where to allocate spending and what it can afford. The Pension lock is an expensive policy and a lot of the low-hanging fruit has already been cut.

Due to the collapsing economic credibility of the country, they're more likely to have to be seen to be eliminating the deficit to bring borrowing under control.
So I reiterate how is any of that the fault of those who are fortunate enough to have paid into pensions worked their whole life and are comfortable in retirement? Yeah it is likely the last group to be that fortunate. I just think a lot of people approaching pension age now are just jealous they wont be as comfortable as those older.

My Dad worked hard all his life. Did not have a great deal for most his life. I certainly do not begrudge him his comfortable twilight years

Dave42 17-10-2022 22:49
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
she said in BBC interview she still be there at next general election she is deluded her MP's wont allow that

1andrew1 17-10-2022 22:50
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137399)
Pretty much all final salary schemes were canned over a decade ago.

Any one such a scheme were transferred onto other plans.
In the private sector, virtually all have been canned. But in the public sector, they're still the norm. That includes the NHS, local councils, the government, universities, armed forces, emergency services, etc.

jfman 17-10-2022 23:04
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137402)
So I reiterate how is any of that the fault of those who are fortunate enough to have paid into pensions worked their whole life and are comfortable in retirement? Yeah it is likely the last group to be that fortunate. I just think a lot of people approaching pension age now are just jealous they wont be as comfortable as those older.

My Dad worked hard all his life. Did not have a great deal for most his life. I certainly do not begrudge him his comfortable twilight years
This is the thing… nobody actually “paid in”. It comes from present day tax revenues and current expenditure (as it always has).

In 1948, when it was set at 65 for men and 60 for women. Life expectancy was about 67. The population had grown over time meaning payments have traditionally been a relatively small amount of all expenditure.

Now people are living longer making it a greater proportion of the current expenditure. It’s £100bn, up from a mere £40bn 20 years ago.

I don’t think anyone is jealous at all - there’s simply a legitimate question about the best use of limited resources.

---------- Post added at 23:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36137404)
In the private sector, virtually all have been canned. But in the public sector, they're still the norm. That includes the NHS, local councils, the government, universities, armed forces, emergency services, etc.
Most have been moved into an average salary scheme going forward.

Jaymoss 17-10-2022 23:10
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137405)
This is the thing… nobody actually “paid in”. It comes from present day tax revenues and current expenditure (as it always has).

In 1948, when it was set at 65 for men and 60 for women. Life expectancy was about 67. The population had grown over time meaning payments have traditionally been a relatively small amount of all expenditure.

Now people are living longer making it a greater proportion of the current expenditure. It’s £100bn, up from a mere £40bn 20 years ago.

I don’t think anyone is jealous at all - there’s simply a legitimate question about the best use of limited resources.

---------- Post added at 23:04 ---------- Previous post was at 22:58 ----------



Most have been moved into an average salary scheme going forward.

Bollocks. My Dad paid into pensions not just the standard government one as I am sure a lot of the other well off pensioners did.

Lots of pensioners do live of the state pension alone those are not well off and get only a little more than someone on ESA for example

Paul 17-10-2022 23:27
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137399)
Pretty much all final salary schemes were canned over a decade ago.

Any one such a scheme were transferred onto other plans.
Everyone was not transferred to other plans, I was in two, and still am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137405)
This is the thing… nobody actually “paid in”.
Complete nonsense.
I paid into both my F/S schemes, and also pay into the scheme at my current employer.
The only one I dont (directly) pay into is the govt pension (when I finally get it).
That said, my national insurance for the last 42 years is supposedly (partly) paying for it.


I have removed a bunch of posts once again attacking so called "baby boomers".
Further attacks will see the member in question removed from topics for long periods.

(and no, I wont be retiring at 60 either).

Chris 17-10-2022 23:35
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
I’m also still in a final salary scheme, albeit one now closed to new members (and I’m not actively contributing as it’s a scheme I was in in a former job). It has been restructured and outsourced. I suspect in the long run a few large companies will hoover up a lot of these funds in order to run them as efficiently as possible because there’s no doubt they’re freakishly expensive.

GrimUpNorth 17-10-2022 23:38
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
My local government pension now has three different bits to it. First two final salary and the third career average ( I think).

Pierre 17-10-2022 23:44
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36137413)
Everyone was not transferred to other plans, I was in two, and still am.
Are you, or your employer, still actively contributing to them, are they just still ….there?

If you’re in two, would suggest you’re not working for at least one?

I was never in one, but Mrs Pierre was and her FS was capped stopped and then they were moved onto a contributory one.

Active FS schemes are very rare.

TheDaddy 18-10-2022 02:13
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36137266)
Err no, it’s collapsing because of the catastrophic economic incompetence of the prime minister.

She was not deeply unpopular before she tanked the currency - no more so than most prime ministers. Nor was the Tory party in the process of tanking the currency or the wider economy prior to her appointment, notwithstanding the inflationary pressures that were (and are) common across Europe.

Pub bore proverbs really don’t help anyone. There are specific factors in play and it pays to at least try to identify them.
Think I saw somewhere the other day that pre brexit our economy was 90% of Germany's, it's now 70%, sounds like they were tanking it good and proper before blunder woman stumbled into the top job

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137283)
We were almost certainly heading for a recession and higher interest rates in any case.

What she’s done is she’s told us once the drawbridge gets pulled up 99% of us we will get poorer and public services will be decimated while they redraw the tax system to benefit the super wealthy. An atrocious look when you’re in a popularity contest.
and yet people other than the super wealthy will still vote for them coz you know, the damage labour would do if they got in :spin:

---------- Post added at 02:13 ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36137287)
What that looks like in terms of seats. Libdems would become the opposition:-

LAB: 515 (+313)
LDM: 47 (+36)
SNP: 42 (-6)
CON: 22 (-343)
PLC: 4 (=)
GRN: 1 (=)

Labour Majority of 380.
Changes w/ GE2019.

https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/s...t-liz-truss%2F
Wonder who the lucky 22 are

jfman 18-10-2022 05:03
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36137413)
Everyone was not transferred to other plans, I was in two, and still am.

Complete nonsense.
I paid into both my F/S schemes, and also pay into the scheme at my current employer.
The only one I dont (directly) pay into is the govt pension (when I finally get it).
That said, my national insurance for the last 42 years is supposedly (partly) paying for it.


I have removed a bunch of posts once again attacking so called "baby boomers".
Further attacks will see the member in question removed from topics for long periods.

(and no, I wont be retiring at 60 either).
I was referring to the state pension not final salary schemes and certainly my intention isn’t to attack “boomers” it’s to criticise flawed Government policy (and yes, it’s nearly 70 years worth so both colours) that ran the pension like a pyramid scheme.

It worked well with population growth ensuring it’s a small part of the pot. It’s now an increasing part of the pot with the amount of people withdrawing instead of paying in are a greater proportion.

Similarly the idea (across western democracies) that economic growth is inevitable as a long term trend. Not without more consumers it isn’t.

Damien 18-10-2022 07:25
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36137402)
So I reiterate how is any of that the fault of those who are fortunate enough to have paid into pensions worked their whole life and are comfortable in retirement? Yeah it is likely the last group to be that fortunate. I just think a lot of people approaching pension age now are just jealous they wont be as comfortable as those older.

My Dad worked hard all his life. Did not have a great deal for most his life. I certainly do not begrudge him his comfortable twilight years
The people that paid into private pensions or are part of final salary schemes aren't in danger from the removal of the triple lock. Although the government did put the final salary schemes at risk because they screwed up the budget.

I am only talking about the state pension which no one ever pays into. You do have to qualify for it via NI contribution years but pensions come out of general taxation. So the government is free to cut/increase the amount as it sees fit or change the years.

The triple lock wasn't because people had saved more than they thought so the government was able to increase their pensions. It was a political decision. The Government giveth and the Government taketh away.

I suspect they won't cut it anyway but instead raise the pension age for anyone under 50, not increase benefits for anyone on disability or job seeker's allowance and increase the age you have to be to qualify for some benefits. That's usually the way.

I am not planning for a state pension when I retire, I very much expect to get screwed by the state.

jfman 18-10-2022 07:54
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137431)
I am not planning for a state pension when I retire, I very much expect to get screwed by the state.
Dare I say it’s bold of you to plan to retire at all. :D

papa smurf 18-10-2022 07:58
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137431)
The people that paid into private pensions or are part of final salary schemes aren't in danger from the removal of the triple lock. Although the government did put the final salary schemes at risk because they screwed up the budget.

I am only talking about the state pension which no one ever pays into. You do have to qualify for it via NI contribution years but pensions come out of general taxation. So the government is free to cut/increase the amount as it sees fit or change the years.

The triple lock wasn't because people had saved more than they thought so the government was able to increase their pensions. It was a political decision. The Government giveth and the Government taketh away.

I suspect they won't cut it anyway but instead raise the pension age for anyone under 50, not increase benefits for anyone on disability or job seeker's allowance and increase the age you have to be to qualify for some benefits. That's usually the way.

I am not planning for a state pension when I retire, I very much expect to get screwed by the state.




you won't be disappointed they hate pensioners until they want our votes

mrmistoffelees 18-10-2022 08:11
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36137434)
you won't be disappointed they hate pensioners until they want our votes
Aye, you're so badly done to.... SMH

TheDaddy 18-10-2022 13:02
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Talk of Theresa May taking over, safe pair of hands, boring and competent seem to be the order of the day

1andrew1 18-10-2022 13:03
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Not sure Conservative Party members got it exactly right last time! :erm:

Quote:
Majority of Tory party members want Truss to resign now - and want Boris Johnson to replace her

The majority of Conservative Party members want Liz Truss to resign now - just six weeks after voting her in - and their preferred replacement is Boris Johnson, a new poll has found.

As her position as prime minister hangs by a thread following a major U-turn on the majority of the mini-budget, Tory members are largely unimpressed with Ms Truss.

The poll found 55% of members think she should resign now, while 38% believe she should remain.

And a majority (63%) think former PM Boris Johnson would be a good replacement, with 32% putting him as their top candidate, followed by Mr Sunak at 23%
https://news.sky.com/story/majority-...e-her-12723609

Damien 18-10-2022 13:36
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
More signs triple lock is about to go: https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/stat...46032796807172

Quote:
NEW: Liz Truss is no longer committed to defending the pensions triple lock, with PM’s official spox signalling it is up for renegotiation.

This is despite 2019 manifesto pledge and PM saying at Tory party conference she remained “committed” to it.

Mick 18-10-2022 14:26
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
1 Attachment(s)
Oh dear, what a shambles…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1666099551

Dave42 18-10-2022 14:31
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36137476)
Not sure Conservative Party members got it exactly right last time! :erm:


https://news.sky.com/story/majority-...e-her-12723609
and the members have give uk the worse 2 PM's ever in the last 2 votes they had

1andrew1 18-10-2022 14:31
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36137491)
Oh dear, what a shambles…
In her defence, she didn't lie when she said she was going to make unpopular decisions! :D

mrmistoffelees 18-10-2022 14:42
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36137476)
Not sure Conservative Party members got it exactly right last time! :erm:


https://news.sky.com/story/majority-...e-her-12723609
Perhaps this was the plan all along.. elect someone so incredibly incompetent that Boris appears an almost competent choice again?

Damien 18-10-2022 15:28
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
I think Truss has been a Lib Dem all along and is bringing down the Conservatives from the inside. Look at the story they might get rid of the triple-lock, she has driven the Tory voter share to 20% and thought of the one policy that could drive it lower.

papa smurf 18-10-2022 15:37
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137501)
I think Truss has been a Lib Dem all along and is bringing down the Conservatives from the inside. Look at the story they might get rid of the triple-lock, she has driven the Tory voter share to 20% and thought of the one policy that could drive it lower.
No triple lock no vote from me, I'll vote for whoever wants to look after me.

mrmistoffelees 18-10-2022 15:53
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Aha !!!

https://twitter.com/dmitryopines/sta...ZWPy02w7JFJ5Ug

Dingbat 18-10-2022 16:05
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137501)
I think Truss has been a Lib Dem all along and is bringing down the Conservatives from the inside. Look at the story they might get rid of the triple-lock, she has driven the Tory voter share to 20% and thought of the one policy that could drive it lower.
Combine that with the infiltration of former members of certain right-wing parties, making their agenda become Tory policy, and it’s no wonder everything is a mess.

1andrew1 18-10-2022 22:32
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Coincidentally, £40bn pa is calculated to be the tax revenue the UK is losing as a result of Brexit.
Quote:
Jeremy Hunt lines up raid on bank profits to help fill £40bn UK fiscal hole

Chancellor also examining extending windfall tax on oil and gas companies

Chancellor Jeremy Hunt is preparing to raid the profits of banks and energy companies in an attempt to fill a £40bn fiscal hole through a mix of tax rises and public spending cuts.

Hunt’s Budget on October 31 is due to include big tax rises, with allies of the chancellor saying they expect him to target the earnings of lenders and oil and gas companies. He has spoken of “eye-wateringly difficult” decisions.

The chancellor told a sombre cabinet meeting on Tuesday that ministers would have to exert tight spending control, as he tries to prove to financial markets that he can bring Britain’s deficit under control.

In a sign of cabinet tensions, Ben Wallace, defence secretary, and James Heappey, his deputy, indicated they could quit if Liz Truss, prime minister, reverses a pledge to raise defence spending to 3 per cent of gross domestic product by 2030.
https://www.ft.com/content/147e9952-...2-96065641860e

Pierre 18-10-2022 22:45
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36137528)
Coincidentally, £40bn pa is calculated to be the tax revenue the UK is losing as a result of Brexit.

https://www.ft.com/content/147e9952-...2-96065641860e
Next person that mentions Brexit will be shot. I have a high powered rifle with a telescopic sight.

All of this ****erry has absolutely nothing, nothing, to do with Brexit.


The only link to Brexit is that a massive mandate 3 yrs ago to remove us from the EU will be reversed as much as possible by a load of ********s no one voted for or even fantasised about.

ianch99 18-10-2022 22:50
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137530)
Next person that mentions Brexit will be shot. I have a high powered rifle with a telescopic sight.

All of this ****erry has absolutely nothing, nothing, to do with Brexit.


The only link to Brexit is that a massive mandate 3 yrs ago to remove us from the EU will be reversed as much as possible by a load of ********s no one voted for or even fantasised about.
Brexit is causing a 4% drop in GDP plus other untold losses. This has to be accounted for in the public finance calculations, so you need to do more research. Even the Telegraph gets it.

1andrew1 18-10-2022 22:59
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36137531)
Brexit is causing a 4% drop in GDP plus other untold losses. This has to be accounted for in the public finance calculations, so you need to do more research. Even the Telegraph gets it.
Exactly. As does Michael O'Leary. Ironic that Brexit which she was against got its revenge on her.

Sephiroth 18-10-2022 23:07
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36137531)
Brexit is causing a 4% drop in GDP plus other untold losses. This has to be accounted for in the public finance calculations, so you need to do more research. Even the Telegraph gets it.

You may have nothing to worry about, Ian. Arch Remainer Hunt might try to have his moment.

It may be a reason, though, why the MPs won't allow him to be PM; at least I hope so.

Dave42 18-10-2022 23:10
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137530)
Next person that mentions Brexit will be shot. I have a high powered rifle with a telescopic sight.

All of this ****erry has absolutely nothing, nothing, to do with Brexit.


The only link to Brexit is that a massive mandate 3 yrs ago to remove us from the EU will be reversed as much as possible by a load of ********s no one voted for or even fantasised about.
totally wrong even FT got video saying it brexit

https://www.ft.com/video/91b8a350-58...a-c62ec832aa9c

how long before the saying the Financial Times is left wing now :LOL:

Damien 19-10-2022 08:22
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137530)
Next person that mentions Brexit will be shot. I have a high powered rifle with a telescopic sight.

All of this ****erry has absolutely nothing, nothing, to do with Brexit.


The only link to Brexit is that a massive mandate 3 yrs ago to remove us from the EU will be reversed as much as possible by a load of ********s no one voted for or even fantasised about.
I think growth might well have been, and would be, higher right now if we hadn't departed.

jfman 19-10-2022 08:23
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137530)
Next person that mentions Brexit will be shot. I have a high powered rifle with a telescopic sight.

All of this ****erry has absolutely nothing, nothing, to do with Brexit.

The only link to Brexit is that a massive mandate 3 yrs ago to remove us from the EU will be reversed as much as possible by a load of ********s no one voted for or even fantasised about.
I think you’re being unduly pessimistic tbf, Pierre. The next Tory leader is still shackled by the ERG.

ianch99 19-10-2022 09:18
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36137533)

You may have nothing to worry about, Ian. Arch Remainer Hunt might try to have his moment.

It may be a reason, though, why the MPs won't allow him to be PM; at least I hope so.
You have admit the irony that Hunt, an "Arch Remainer", is asked to save the country from the "Arch Leaver" Truss. :)

Sephiroth 19-10-2022 09:46
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36137543)
You have admit the irony that Hunt, an "Arch Remainer", is asked to save the country from the "Arch Leaver" Truss. :)


Arch Weathervane.


1andrew1 19-10-2022 10:11
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137540)
I think growth might well have been, and would be, higher right now if we hadn't departed.
Yup, the UK is the only G7 country not to have returned to its pre-Covid economy size. As per the FT video, we're looking at a £40bn tax hit every year. We need to fill this gap somehow through lower spending or higher taxes or both or find someway of reducing the gap.

What Hunt also needs to cover is the increased borrowing costs that the mini budget has left us with. Yes, he's undone most of the mini budget but the markets's confidence in the UK has reduced leading to higher interest rates, as Peston explains.
Quote:
The point is that the mini-budget has increased the hole in the public finances by more than the direct impact of the mini-budget’s unfunded tax increases.

By undermining investors’ confidence in the government’s economic competence, the mini-budget increased the relative interest rate the government has to pay to borrow - and that caused an indirect but significant deepening of the hole in the public finances.
https://www.itv.com/news/2022-10-19/...uss-cannot-fix

Damien 19-10-2022 12:17
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Truss has just committed to the triple lock again.

Maggy 19-10-2022 12:19
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137546)
Truss has just committed to the triple lock again.
Wise of her.

papa smurf 19-10-2022 12:21
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137546)
Truss has just committed to the triple lock again.
How long will this commitment last

Dave42 19-10-2022 12:26
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137546)
Truss has just committed to the triple lock again.
remember she committed to her pledge no spending cuts last week how long did that last

denphone 19-10-2022 12:27
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137546)
Truss has just committed to the triple lock again.
So in essence she has over-ruled what Jeremy Hunt stated the other day when he said everything is up for discussion regarding spending cuts.

Damien 19-10-2022 12:29
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36137548)
How long will this commitment last
:shrug:

Was this agreed with Hunt or did she just publically bounce him into it?

I suspect they'll keep it but the language will dodge if it will be kept after the next election should the Tories win. I think the budget on the 31st will do a lot of pushing for the biggest savings until after 2024.

1andrew1 19-10-2022 12:37
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137546)
Truss has just committed to the triple lock again.
Not once but twice. Thereby contradicting her spokesman the other day and the interview that Peston had with Hunt before this.

Her approach seems to be as cynical as last week - say yes to things at PMQs and then go back on them before the next PMQs.

---------- Post added at 12:37 ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137552)
:shrug:

Was this agreed with Hunt or did she just publically bounce him into it?

I suspect they'll keep it but the language will dodge if it will be kept after the next election should the Tories win. I think the budget on the 31st will do a lot of pushing for the biggest savings until after 2024.
She probably told him a few minutes before PMQs.

I think they'll fudge it - say it will be postponed for a period of months or something.

Damien 19-10-2022 12:57
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
The Tories have tweeted a graphic out saying the triple lock is confirmed so that's sorted, at least for today.

Jaymoss 19-10-2022 12:58
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137555)
The Tories have tweeted a graphic out saying the triple lock is confirmed so that's sorted, at least for today.
Yeah the problem is what faith can we possibly have in anything they say? I mean normally we all know you can not trust a politician but the flip flopping going on this last month just means nothing they say holds even a drop of water

pip08456 19-10-2022 13:26
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
A good line from Kier Starmer today.

Quote:
Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer, begins his questioning by describing a book about Liz Truss's time in Downing Street - it could be "out by Christmas", he adds, before asking if that's the "release date or the title?"
Source Skynews on Twitter.

TheDaddy 19-10-2022 13:52
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137555)
The Tories have tweeted a graphic out saying the triple lock is confirmed so that's sorted, at least for today.
Steve Baker said on politics live the fund will be exhausted in 20 years anyway so triple lock or not expect it to be stripped back, mind you the buffoon also said the country needed a tory government to provide economic stability :nutter: so I think his judgement is some what questionable

1andrew1 19-10-2022 14:07
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
The question that was nearly asked in PMQs.
Quote:
One of Liz Truss’s top aides has been suspended from his job pending an investigation, it has been reported.

Jason Stein is a special advisor to the prime minister and is facing an investigation by the Cabinet Office’s propriety and ethics unit.

The move follows anger from some Conservative MPs over briefings by Mr Javid was lined up to ask a question at prime minister’s questions on Wednesday, but ultimately did not ask it. The aide was reported to be suspended just minutes before prime minister’s questions began.

ITV News reports that Mr Javid had demanded the suspension in exchange for dropping his question to the prime minister – whose leadership is on the ropes.

Mr Stein was Ms Truss’s senior campaign advisor during her Tory leadership bid this year.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2205969.html

papa smurf 19-10-2022 14:10
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137555)
The Tories have tweeted a graphic out saying the triple lock is confirmed so that's sorted, at least for today.
It seems it was agreed prior to PMQs

1andrew1 19-10-2022 14:11
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36137560)
Steve Baker said on politics live the fund will be exhausted in 20 years anyway so triple lock or not expect it to be stripped back, mind you the buffoon also said the country needed a tory government to provide economic stability :nutter: so I think his judgement is some what questionable
I don't believe there's a fund for the state pension as there is with workplace and private pensions. It's just paid out of current expenditure.

papa smurf 19-10-2022 14:12
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36137564)
I don't believe there's a fund for the state pension as there is with workplace and private pensions. It's just paid out of current expenditure.
Or there was a fund and some bugger raided it in the past:)

TheDaddy 19-10-2022 14:23
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36137564)
I don't believe there's a fund for the state pension as there is with workplace and private pensions. It's just paid out of current expenditure.
It's called the national insurance fund....

Paul 19-10-2022 14:47
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137418)
If you’re in two, would suggest you’re not working for at least one?
I no longer work for either company, so no, I'm not contributing to them.

People who I worked with, who are still there, are still in them.
However, they are closed to new members, only pre-exsiting members are active.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137428)
..... intention isn’t to attack “boomers”
You were not the member in question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137546)
Truss has just committed to the triple lock again.
Not much of a commitment when you can just change your mind at any time.

jfman 19-10-2022 15:06
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36137560)
Steve Baker said on politics live the fund will be exhausted in 20 years anyway so triple lock or not expect it to be stripped back, mind you the buffoon also said the country needed a tory government to provide economic stability :nutter: so I think his judgement is some what questionable
What fund? I’ve had a look at the accounts and it’s not there. It’s simply a bribe.

1andrew1 19-10-2022 15:34
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
A bit more on that Sajid story
Quote:
Here is the measure of the chaos in Downing St.

Ex chancellor @sajidjavid was incandescent about briefing that he’s incompetent to Sunday Times.

He blamed Truss’s adviser Jason Stein and was planning to humiliate the PM by asking a question about Stein at #PMQs.

After talking to cabinet secretary Simon Case, Javid said his condition for not hijacking #PMQs is Stein would be suspended and there should be investigation by Cabinet Office’s Propriety and Ethics committee. Stein has duly been suspended and probe is happening.

But it won’t end there, because Stein is confident he cannot be sanctioned for what happened, which carries the implication others in Downing St are to blame.

No wonder so many Tory MPs say Truss simply cannot continue in office.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1582702483750936577

denphone 19-10-2022 16:25
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Suella Braverman departs as UK home secretary.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics...tary-liz-truss


Quote:
Suella Braverman is understood to have departed as UK home secretary after Liz Truss cleared her diary and called off a planned visit amid desperate attempts to save her premiership, the Guardian has been told.

There is speculation that Grant Shapps, the former transport secretary who strongly backed Rishi Sunak in the Conservative leadership race, will replace Braverman in another sudden revamp of Truss’s government.

Damien 19-10-2022 16:26
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Joke Government

Dave42 19-10-2022 16:26
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/stat...53580746174465

Quote:
EXCL: Suella Braverman has departed as home secretary, causing yet more chaos for Liz Truss's government, with Grant Shapps tipped to take over.

Damien 19-10-2022 16:30
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
In this case she was probably fired. There were stories last week that No 10 took her off immigration as she was freelancing policy apparently to order to appeal to Tory Members

denphone 19-10-2022 16:30
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137579)
Joke Government
Apparently Jeremy Hunt played a large part in her departure.

Mick 19-10-2022 16:30
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Tyranny led government. They need to call an election now. Utter shower of cowards.

Dave42 19-10-2022 16:32
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36137584)
Tyranny led government. They need to call an election now. Utter shower of cowards.
it falling apart in front of everyones eyes

sky just confirmed Suella Braverman has gone apperently a row over immagration

1andrew1 19-10-2022 16:41
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36137585)
it falling apart in front of everyones eyes

sky just confirmed Suella Braverman has gone apperently a row over immagration
There was always going to be tension on this - Truss wants supply side reforms (ie easier Immigration) to reduce inflation. Braverman wants less.

#CoalitionOfChaos

Dave42 19-10-2022 16:43
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status...58874503086080

Quote:
Govt source confirms that Suella Braverman has left the Home Office. Understand it is 'not over a policy disagreement' but an 'honest mistake' - we await more detail, but the Home Sec is gone

Sam Coates on sky just now saying she shared secure information on a private mobile phone

Damien 19-10-2022 16:43
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
What on earth could the honest mistake be to fire her in this situation?

Dave42 19-10-2022 16:47
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137589)
What on earth could the honest mistake be to fire her in this situation?
she shared some secure information on a private phone sky news reporting Beth Rigby now saying she broke ministerial code

Damien 19-10-2022 16:50
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
So is that the real reason or was it a handy excuse to get rid of someone who was essentially pursuing her own policies against No 10?

ianch99 19-10-2022 16:52
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
More chaos:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1582729593244372992

Quote:
We’ve reached the stage at which a Tory MP is going to vote for the fracking he opposes, but only because he doesn’t want to lose the Conservative whip, as this would invalidate his letter demanding the Tory leader be replaced because of her incompetence.

1andrew1 19-10-2022 16:52
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Cancelling all my streaming services! Far more drama available by watching No 10's antics than the streamers can hope to match! :D

Dave42 19-10-2022 16:54
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36137594)
Cancelling all my streaming services! Far more drama available by watching No 10's antics than the streamers can hope to match! :D
you could be onto something there Andrew :D:D:D

jfman 19-10-2022 16:54
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Grant Shapps hahaha

Damien 19-10-2022 16:55
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
I don't think I've ever seen a UK government in total disarray and chaos like this before. May had lost authority, Boris Johnson as well and Brown lost an election but this is just crazy. A complete breakdown, a budget reversed two weeks later, cabinet ministers gone, MPs threatened with the whip being withdrawn for voting for their own manifesto (which said no fracking).

Every part of it seems to be collapsing.

denphone 19-10-2022 16:59
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36137594)
Cancelling all my streaming services! Far more drama available by watching No 10's antics than the streamers can hope to match! :D
My running news feed needs to catch its breath as it is complaining that it has been overworked lately.;)

Dave42 19-10-2022 17:00
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137597)
I don't think I've ever seen a UK government in total disarray and chaos like this before. May had lost authority, Boris Johnson as well and Brown lost an election but this is just crazy. A complete breakdown, a budget reversed two weeks later, cabinet ministers gone, MPs threatened with the whip being withdrawn for voting for their own manifesto (which said no fracking).

Every part of it seems to be collapsing.
imagine what all the right wing media would be doing if it was a labour government in this chaos

Chris 19-10-2022 17:01
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
We have a government whose pronouncements nobody believes, whose ministers nobody expects to remain in post, led by a prime minister nobody expects to be in charge 12 weeks from now (assuming of course she's really in charge even today).

It's beyond absurd and if Liz Truss has any reverence whatsoever for this country and its institutions she must now submit to the judgment of the electorate.

1andrew1 19-10-2022 17:02
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
1 Attachment(s)
Barbed resignation letter from Braverman here!

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1666195542

https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/...736128/photo/1

Damien 19-10-2022 17:05
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Sir Humphrey would never have let this happen

---------- Post added at 17:03 ---------- Previous post was at 17:02 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36137599)
imagine what all the right wing media would be doing if it was a labour government in this chaos
I don't think the coverage would be much different.

This is a complete meltdown, there isn't any way to spin it and The Sun/The Mail aren't trying.

---------- Post added at 17:05 ---------- Previous post was at 17:03 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36137601)
Resignation letter from Braverman here
https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/...736128/photo/1
I think this lends more fuel to the fire that this was more of an excuse to get rid of a cabinet minister.

1andrew1 19-10-2022 17:10
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36137602)
I think this lends more fuel to the fire that this was more of an excuse to get rid of a cabinet minister.
Alternatively, some say that she made the small error on purpose in order to resign and put the boot into Truss.

Chris 19-10-2022 17:12
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36137607)
Alternatively, some say that she made the small error on purpose in order to resign and put the boot into Truss.
That's certainly my reading of it. It's barely a resigning matter and looks to me like she did the bare minimum she had to do to have an excuse to resign and write a heavily ironic letter about doing the honourable thing.

Dave42 19-10-2022 17:14
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Sam Coates now reported the secure information was to do with immigration policy and market sensitive

papa smurf 19-10-2022 17:15
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
There seems to be a couple of teething problems with this government ,things are moving so fast i daren't go for a pee for fear of missing something.

Damien 19-10-2022 17:15
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36137608)
That's certainly my reading of it. It's barely a resigning matter and looks to me like she did the bare minimum she had to do to have an excuse to resign and write a heavily ironic letter about doing the honourable thing.
Why does she need the excuse at all? Couldn't she say she was resigning over a matter of principle about the u-turns since her letter is full of it?

heero_yuy 19-10-2022 17:25
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36137610)
There seems to be a couple of teething problems with this government
Getting whiter by the day. :erm:

jfman 19-10-2022 17:42
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36137601)
Did she at least sign it herself :rofl:

---------- Post added at 17:42 ---------- Previous post was at 17:25 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36137609)
Sam Coates now reported the secure information was to do with immigration policy and market sensitive
She should have divulged it to hedge funds at a champagne reception.

1andrew1 19-10-2022 17:55
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Here is Downing Street's version of why @SuellaBraverman's security breach was a sacking offence.

1) the information she sent out related to a new policy to let in more high skilled workers, and stimulate growth - which was relevant to the @OBR_UK
assessment of how fast the economy will grow and was therefore price sensitive (it was highly confidential till announced by Jeremy Hunt on 31 Oct says source)

2) it was sent out using the private email server on Braverman's phone (an accident, says Braverman)

3) it was sent to a...Tory MP who is not a member of the government and also ended up with someone not even an MP because Braverman put in the wrong address in the CC email box (and it was this person who shopped Braverman).

As Dominic Cummings points out, under Johnson plenty of ministers used private servers to routinely send sensitive info to all sorts of people who aren't members of the government. Which is why Braverman and her MP supporters complain she has been stitched up by Truss as part of a coup by the Tory left.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1582770291100778496

Dave42 19-10-2022 18:12
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Grant Shapps is confirmed

https://twitter.com/10DowningStreet/...79011448864768

Hugh 19-10-2022 18:16
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 36137619)
Will it be a job share between Grant Schapps, Michael Green, Corinne Stockheath and Sebastian Fox?

Pierre 19-10-2022 18:38
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36137613)
Did she at least sign it herself :rofl:
This is now individual manoeuvring. Truss’ government is toxic and is unlikely to last a few weeks.

Braverman probably wants a position in the next PM’s cabinet, better to jump now.

1andrew1 19-10-2022 18:52
Re: Liz Truss [Prime Minister]
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36137624)
This is now individual manoeuvring. Truss’ government is toxic and is unlikely to last a few weeks.

Braverman probably wants a position in the next PM’s cabinet, better to jump now.
I don't know what's worse - yet another poor Prime Minister tediously put in place with policies not resembling those BoJo won the election on, or Truss limping on as she is with a cabinet of buffoons.

If the Conservative Party was a pet, you'd take it to the vets to get it put down. It's a real hits show.


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