Re: smoking and the pub
 

Because they earn far more from cigarette taxation than it costs them to fund the NHS for smoking related diseases.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I work from home. Am I allowed to smoke there then?

Furthermore, other employees from the company come to my house to conduct business with me, are they allowed to smoke?

Where do the lines become drawn?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

That is actually likely to become an issue, as more and more people work from home. I was reading some discussion on it a while ago, turning over the various aspects of the home office that your employer might have a legal responsibility towards. If you injure yourself in company time, the company can be liable - what if you trip over a loose carpet tile in your home office, while 'at work'. It will come home to roost sooner or later, but I think there will have to be a test case. Maybe it will even be a 'passive smoking' case?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

well working from home and smoking would mean you're breaking health and safety rules in theory - so if you invite someone in to see you and you're smoking they could put in a complaint? if they come in and smoke then they'd also be breaking the rules and subject to a disaplinary.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

How about social workers, carers etc?

They work in different peoples homes. Do they people they are looking after have to stop or do they just have to put up with it.

Ooh I'll bet there are a troop of lawyers rubbing their hands together who can't wait till this becomes law so they can line their pockets.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Ahem ...

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=2445122005

Applies to Scotland in this case, where the ban has been legislated for separately, but it will be interesting to see if England does something similar.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

What if the boss isn't around. If the employees still smoke, will the boss still get a £2500 fine? Will the boss need to employ bouncers to make sure noone smokes? But then who will make sure the bouncers don't smoke?

You can tell the government has about as much thought into this as they normally do.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Wouldnt that be a breach of h&s at work, making the employee in breach of there employment contract :shrug:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

And how many people do you think will be tempted to light up in the face of the visiting worker because of this request?

What a load of <mod edit>...

Re: smoking and the pub
 

There are bound to be some. I expect most of them will step back in line if they are threatened with a withdrawl of service by Social Services though. :shrug:

Please don't try to bypass the swear filter.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

The you get into all manner of problems with their rights to treatment / use of their council tax not getting them services etc.

About the only thing you can guarantee is it'll end up in the courts. :(

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Indeed. And they'll be subject to a £50 fine. However, the boss, who's done nothing wrong, is subject to a fine of £2500.

The anti-smoking gestapo who'll now have enforce this £2500 fine will come along when the boss isn't there, no doubt.

Also sounds like a good way to stich up your boss. Put in an anonymous call to Crimestoppers, smoke a cigarette, get caught, you get a £50 fine, your boss gets a £2500 fine, and you could end up with a reward from Crimestoppers and a medal :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

On what basis? As far as I can see, people are perfectly within their right to smoke in their own home. The council may request them to not smoke, but they would appear to be on dodgy grounds to withdraw the service on the basis of someone smoking? (Or would this be considered abuse towards the worker?) :shrug:

Sorry boss ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

That sucks, i could understand if the employer was allowing it, talk about heads up bums :(

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Please don't answer for me!

But Ireland is a different country and i live in Nelson, Lancashire. How could you possibly compare the two localities and come to the same conclusion?

This law is to protect those who wish not to breath second hand smoke. Fair enough, go elsewhere like your poncy little coffe shops for a half decaff and couisant or go to the off licence and get a six pack of stella that you can drink in your own smoke free zone. I bought the cigs in a public place so why can't i smoke them there?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Ireland is roughly fairly similar to the UK for a lot of things. In fact I'd even go as far to say there was more smoking in Irish pubs than you would get in a UK one before the ban.

As it was there were dire predictions that thousands of bars would close and they haven't. People have moved on and adapted. The same will happen here.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I think withdrawal of Social Services might be seen as an advantage in some homes..:erm:

However it might be playing into the hands of potential child abusers so I suspect that one won't run...

Re: smoking and the pub
 

er no, the visiting care worker is entitled to have their h and s respected. no dodgy grounds to withdraw the service provided the home owner is aware of the issue before threats to withdraw the service are made. just as a care worker is entitled to stay away if you have other safety issues, e.g. wires hanging out of sockets, stairs with no banisters etc

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Then don't make a sweeping generalisation on something you actually don't know the answer to, unless of course you've been out every night polling local smokers, which I sincerely doubt you have.

You think you have less smokers? Doubtful.

I was selfish when I was a smoker, at least now me being selfish is for the good of your health ;)

Think about this, when the smoking ban is introduced (and make no mistake about it, it will be), You'll be the one heading the off license and I'll be the one who continues drinking in pubs.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

looks like you aren't the only one to think that

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4719654.stm

;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

What do MP's think their role is?Is it to protect ALL their constituents or just those that fit in with their notions of the correct manner in which to live?Trouble is that this lot have got the bit between their teeth after banning fox hunting and now smoking.The next thing will be the issue of parents and physical punishment closely followed possibly by banning angling.In fact they will be banning anything that does not actually involve any pursuit that they themselves indulge in.This lot are the sort to ban football because it leads to football hooliganism.:rolleyes:

As a non smoker I was not actually against a ban on smoking in public places but if they are going to chase after them into the streets I say enough is enough.Smoking a cigarette IS STILL NOT A CRIMINAL OFFENCE.Let's leave smokers alone in the garden FFS.

Stuff New Labour,Give me the Old Guard anyday,at least they left smokers and drinkers alone.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I agree in part wiht the smoking ban and I am a social smoker.

I really think it will affect some pubs, but not all.

Ireland implemented it and yeah it works, the only problem now is the mountains of fag butts on the floor outside every bar. Might have clean air in the pubs but the street are filthy in Dublin.

Has the gov stopped to wonder where it thinks the tax is gonna come from when they stop everyone from smoking? Do they think they can raise income tax to cover it? Why is it that this gov wants to stop everyone from dying then moans it cant afford pensions for the elderly?

just because I rarely go out drinking I would stick two fingers up at blair. If I want to smoke I will, I just wont go out for a drink I'll stay at home, drinking my UK duty unpaid french beer and smoking my UK duty unpaid tobacco.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

The next step? Where will it end?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

they've already worked this one out mate by having a relaxation in the rules governing the use of speed camera's.

what they lose out on in fags they get back from speeding motorists.

---------- Post added at 15:25 ---------- Previous post was at 15:22 ----------

do you know. the way this countries going i'd stick my head in the gas oven and kill myself only thing is i can't afford the gas.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

If you can be prosecuted for drinking out of a bottle at the wheel, why not for smoking a cigarette?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

There are many people who have had car accidents by dropping a stub between their legs as they drive and burning their testamonials....

Re: smoking and the pub
 

A few times I've seen people lighting cigarettes with a lighter whilst driving. Both hands off the wheel and eyes off the road as well for a few seconds.

At least, if not more, dangerous than taking a drink while driving.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

oh dear.

Soon the cigarette police will be kicking down peoples doors dragging them outside and executing them.

They should also ban passengers that can distract the driver.

They should also ban babys in baby seats in cars that distract the driver.

They should also ban GPS systems that force people to not to look at the road 100% of the time.

Thye should ban billboards

Good looking women

In fact they should monitor you eyes and if you're not looking at the road 100% of the time you should be fined and given three points.

The fact is you don't look at the 100% of the time, you are distracted by many things - Does that mean you are not in control of the vehicle - of course not.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I agree smoking whilst driving can be dangerous... But they should really be concentrating on more dangerous aspects of driving IMO.

Maybe they should ban toddlers in cars because they are too distracting:shrug:
Or car radios....

---------- Post added at 15:44 ---------- Previous post was at 15:44 ----------

Dammit Pierre beat me to it :rofl:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:tu::tu::tu::tu::tu::tu::tu:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

So will they be banning air conditioning in cars too then ? What about all the Carbon Monoxide filling our lungs, when we are stuck in traffic. :erm:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

A guy was run over and killed close to where I live a few years ago. The driver admitted that he was fiddling with the radio at the time.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

You know I'm really disappointed in the Aussies.I always thought of them as the sort to tell the government where to stick their interference and to mind their own business.:)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I feel that smoking should be banned while driving, was was run of the road in the week buy two drivers, one was smoking, and the other was on the phone.

I don't lip read but I knew what they said and thay had the bl**dy nerve to blame me.

Also they thow the dog end out of the car or leave little pile of dirty dogends in car parks

Re: smoking and the pub
 

That's a sweeping generalisation there david - not all smokers do that you know. Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but I've found that it's a lot easier just to take the ashtray out of the car every once in a while and put the ash in my wheelie bin :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

As I was coming home yesterday I noticed at a couple of motorway service areas that Cancer Research UK has put stick-on adverts on every restaurant table top 'in celebration of the lives that will be saved as a result of Scotland's public smoking ban'.

The law comes into effect on the 26th of this month - less than 2 weeks away - and I can't wait. While I was away I visited a smoke-free pub for the first time. It took me some time to work out what was odd about it, and then I realised I could see right across the room clearly, with no pale grey fog of fag smoke hanging in the air. And at the end of the evening my clothes didn't stink.

They have started leafleting homes to remind everyone when the ban starts. I may have mine framed. Finally the majority can have a night out without coming home stinking and full of passive smoke.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Well, they'll probably still stink, but that's the Scottish for you!



JOKE!!!! :p:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Well said Chris T :tu:

I work in a club that ends up smoked filled all nite and looks kinda foggy by the time I leave. It makes everyone and everything stink :sick:

..And have you ever kissed someone that smokes? :sick:

Id totally ban smoking if I could.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But you must have surely known that there would be smokers in the club before you applied for the job? Why now complain about the stink?

Please explain as this type of "i put up with until the Government banned it" attitude i can't fathom :shrug:. I've been in crappy jobs that i didn't like and left the place so why didn't you?
Yes i have but seeing as your such against smokers, why did you?

But you can't so just leave us alone!

;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

ok

Yes I knew people smoke in clubs, Im saying I hate the stink simply bcos I do.
I put up with it bcos the job pays well, that's why Ill work there until I get my Diploma and will then sort my proper career out :D

On the kissing question ..My ex bf smoked but gave up.

Did your cage get rattled Shabba? ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I too have been in jobs with aspects I didn't like. I didn't leave as I felt the bits I liked outweighed the bits I didn't like.. Sounds like Ellie is willing to put up with the smoke as she likes the pay.

Maybe she loved him? Maybe she was convinced she could persuade him to give up? I don't know ellie, so I may be wrong, but that seems logical to me.
I have to admit, while I don't smoke, I don't agree with a total ban.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

a total ban on kissing smokers? ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

No. Smoking.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

LOL! No Ellie you didn't rattle my cage (i did put a wink to make sure i didn't come across that way)

;)

What gets me is that people are prepared to support a ban on smoking in pubs/clubs who are non smokers. Fair enough, i thought we all had a choice on wether or not we worked/frequented those places. Now my rights have been taken away! Soon if i "spark up" in a pub/club i can be asked to leave or fined. Why not just give a section of the pub/club up for smokers. Asking me to go outside to smoke imo is akin to asking me to leave!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

But it works in Ireland

Its not too bad, but yeah I agree as a socail smoker I enjoy a pint and a cigar.

My attitude now is stuff the pubs, stuff the clubs, I'll brew me own, I'll use the local offie.

When students cant get bar jobs because the majority of pubs and clubs have closed due to lack of business they can thank the smoking ban.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:clap:

:devsmoke::beer:

http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=...s/icons/12.gif

Re: smoking and the pub
 

There's no evidence to suggest that will happen though.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Can't we just ban students instead?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Let's see when the ban is enforced. There are already abandoned/for sale pubs in my area due to off-licence sales and i can only see more pubs closing if they deny loyal customers the right to share a drink and a ciggie.

I predict a huge loss of jobs and income because of this :(

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Just like has happened in Ireland then.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I've said before that you cannot compare Ireland to the North West of England! We are a different culture and a different frameset of mind.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I'm not talking about one certain region, I'm talking about the UK as a whole. And I've been to Ireland enough times to wonder why you think there is such a cultural difference.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I'm wondering what the cultural difference is too?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I can't talk about the UK as a whole i can only point to three pubs that have closed due to off licence sales in my home town. I can imagine a smoking ban closing more down.

I've never been to Ireland but they are pro European something that i will never be.

But we digress ;)

---------- Post added at 23:45 ---------- Previous post was at 23:41 ----------

I was talking of the Republic not Northern Ireland Fingy

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Anyone who wants a smoke while they are out in Ireland just goes outside, the restaurants are used to it and most pubs/clubs have a back door the open up for the smokers to nip in and out.

Sales may have gone down for a small while but imho its not been a massive deal.

Yeah, I know its the Republic you were referring to, as am I.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

No, we don't digress at all, you make some random points which don't have anything to do with what you preceive as 'cultural differences' between Ireland than the UK

Like she's never been there....?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Why should i have to skulk out the back door for a cig like a naughty school boy? I've legally bought twenty fags and paid a vast amount of tax for them so why can't i sit in a room designated to smokers in a pub that i've frequented for years? Where are my rights??

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Wherever you left them?

I'm out of this thread....

:walk:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I made one point that i percieve as a cultural difference. Please don't try to read more into it.

Like i'm sure she can answer that for herself...!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I smoke too, but personally it doesn't bother me going outside. I don't smoke in my own house because my husband doesn't like it and its not fair to force my smoking habit on to him. :shrug:

Just think about those who work in the bar / restaurant who are subjected to the smoke day in, day out. If you are asking where your rights are, where are theirs? :erm:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

WTF?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Read more in to it? I couldn't read anything in to it! If I'm reading this correctly, the fact that you believe that the Irish are more pro-european is one of the reasons why you think that more bars and pubs will close in the UK than over there?

No...you couldn't have meant that, surely?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

They have the right to find another job - i have lost my right to smoke.

I question why a non smoker would want to breath second hand smoke and as to why a non smoker would want bar work. You can get similar pay at Macadees or BK entirely smoke free.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Pah typical united fan, when the going gets tough the tough get going.

:D

Anyhows back on topic, smoker myself but think people will adapt but personally don't see why they should.

Have smoking only pubs and let the non smokers in when they want a beer or a chat.

:D

If you do not want to work in a smoking enviroment then simple really don't work in one.

Bit like I want to work in a smoking enviroment but thats not going to happen.

Choice has long gone, as I would like to smoke on a plane, life is tough I can't, does it stop me from flying - no.

I want to smoke on a bus or train, does it stop from using them again no.

Funniest thing I seen for a while was being on the Irish ferry when the announcement come over the tannoy saying entering Irish waters please vacate to deck or estinguish your cig immediately.

I think it is a no win argument from a smokers perspective or a non smokers perspective and we will ultimately just have to conform or not go to the pubs or take the easy option and give up.

:D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

HA! Sure you've got the right person? Think of a forum member who supports a successful premiership side and has plenty to say when that team is winning (or when their Mancunian rivals are losing) but when they have a bad run (like the last 2 months) they are curiously nowhere to be found.....remind you of anyone? ;)

Anyway, back on topic now :D

I'm not saying I'm in favour of a ban (non smoker, never have, never will) although I wouldn't object to it. More choice would be my suggestion, with Assembly-funded incentives for non-smoking pubs.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

The Irish are very much pro European and have followed the lead from many other European states. The fact that the other member states have better weather and outdoor cafe's where smoking is allowed has less an affect on smokers over there. In Ireland i believe Guinness are blaming losses of sales on the smoking ban.

I'd say that's a fair assumption.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

And what do you base that on? That they dropped the punt? Nothing to do with the punt being rubbish?

Examples?

First I've heard of that - in the 3 times I went to Ireland last year I never saw anything which suggested that.

I might agree with you if you can back it up.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

What other European states have banned smoking in pubs/bars then?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Post number 5 by Bifta.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I had a google for information about this supposed drop in sales of guinness and the articles I found have something in common with Bifta's post - they are all almost 2 years old. Nothing recent.

I can imagine there would have been some kind of impact on the leisure economy but once it's settled it would be interesting to see how things are now.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

It's patently obvious that the non smokers aren't going to give an inch and neither am i. I will ressurect this post with photos of newly closed public houses/clubs in my area in a few months time.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

OK fine - but bear in mind that I've said all along that I'm not in favour of a ban - all I'm doing is pointing out holes in either side of the argument, only tonight the pro-ban contingent seems to be water-tight.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Diageo, the owners of Guinness, have recently announced interim financial results for the 6-month period ending Dec '05. You can get it here but to summarise, their profit before interest & tax (PBIT) was £1205M compared to £1002M for the previous year, ie an increase of £203M.

Their net sales rose by 7% year-on-year, which equates to £1.4Bn, of which there is an operating profit of £0.5Bn.

They've got free cash flow of £651M :drool: I'd say they're doing pretty well overall.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Like I said, It works in Ireland, the draw back is the millions of dog ends on the floor.

The public bins do have assh tray facilities built in, and seem to be emptied often (Can you see that happening in the UK?)

And I admit it is nice to have a night out and not come home smelling of smoke.


But I think the anti smoking lobby have taken things too far, by victimising smokers.....or let me rephrase that, victimising and hounding the drug addicts, people with a weakness they are making enemies. Prejudices against those who smoke need to be addressed, because if we smokers all give up, EVERYONES income tax and NI will go through the roof to cover the lost tax revenue.
The NHS bill might see a small drop from smoking related diseases, but hey lets remember even non smokers can die from lung cancer, heart disease etc.

Does anyone know what the gov revenue is on tobacco tax? Remember that all that will have to be covered when smokers are forced to quit.

As someone who now drinks little, I think we should address the helath issues surrounding alcohol, lets ban alcohol in pubs, clubs and restraunts, alcohol can torture and destroy the lives of miilions, and the effects it has on the human body have to be reolved by the NHS, Alcohol related disease is self inflicted and as such alcohol should be banned.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

If memory serves, smokers actually bring in more tax than is spent on them, especially when you consider that they are more likely to die before drawing much of their pension!
You've also got to remember, if they don't die of smoking, they'll die of something else, and that costs the NHS too.
Using the NHS to quit smoking costs the NHS as well.
So, the more people who quit smoking, the less tax is given to the treasury, and the more tax is spent by the NHS.

TimeWarrior, interesting point about banning alcohol in pubs.
I don't drink alcohol.
I avoid pubs because of drunk people.
If pubs only served soft drinks, then they'd be opening themselves up to the market of people like me who avoid pubs because of drunks.
Unlike non-smokers, who can currently enjoy non-smoking areas of pubs, there are no non-drunks areas.
Drinkers will be able to enjoy booze at home, just like smokers after the ban, but with no booze in pubs/clubs/public places, there would be fewer drunken brawls, and it would save money on NHS and police costs too.

So if they're going to ban smoking in pubs, then why not ban alcohol in pubs too?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

you cant sit in a smokers room in pubs (in future) because your legal representatives voted that you have no right to do this (soon). so there are your rights - you will have the right to be able to smoke freely on your own property.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

You cannot measure pub and club losses with brewery figures, they sell outdoor aswell as to licensed premises. Smokers can drink more @ home for less with no need to worry about the drunken stroll home after.

You would have to measure how many pubs and clubs existed prior to and after at a variety of time periods and then ascertain which closures were due to lack of custom becasue of a smoking ban and which closed for other reasons. Uk cant really use cafes in the equation either, we have never really had a huge alcohol in cafe culture.
Personally I think many smokers will just find alternative private places to socialise and use pubs less, doesnt mean they wont pop in for a pint or two here an there, but they will definatly not be so regular as before, and spend far less in there. I am also in agreement to a certain extent with others, alcohol is as bad a drug as smoking, effects on others can be somewhat more instantaneous than a few years of passive smoking. Its unfortunate but as theres such a large amount who cannot control themselves while under the alcohol influence, it to should be banned from all public places. This would help illeviate drink driving offences, binge drinking and the violence that follows, the mess the following morning all over the streets etc, relieve the nhs of considerable blood seen especially at the weekends, its really not nice taking a child or youth to hospital because they have had a minor accident and being subjected to the crap you can often recieve from the drunken absuive croud in the casualty dept, its not even nice to see them in the state they are in even if they are not being offensive just a bunch of drunkards, without the abuse that can also be there.

There should be a new campaign now "Ban all drug and drug like products from public places" and "ban popcorn with it too"

Theres many other places that could well be affected to some extent. Casinos, bingo halls etc may well suffer a large loss in patronage.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Frankly, if a large number of pubs or clubs close in your area, it shows a distinct lack of business sense and planning. There's been enough notice that a smoking ban of some description was going to come into force, so they have no excuse if they haven't found ways to work around it.

FWIW, I'm have to say that I don't agree with the ban the way that it's going to be implemented, but I accept that it's the way it's going to be. Businesses will have to find ways to work with it but, if they don't, you can't blame anyone other than those running them :shrug:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

1st July


Can't wait! :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6196910.stm

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I honestly didn't think this would happen... I normally take it as part of the atmosphere when i go out. Nice to see it shall be gone :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

wooooo hooooooooo

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Great - can't wait. Was in Glasgow recently and the atmosphere in the bars and clubs is no much nicer.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Just after it was introduced some of the clubs smelt a bit 'ripe' about 3 in the morning :sick:
Since then most of the larger ones have started pumping in fragrances to mask some of the smells that tend to linger.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I went into pubs in Dublin... The missus and I didn't notice until we remembered the news.

So not really a dramatic then. And this is from two non-smokers.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Went to pubs in Cork last year - only noticed it when I got back to the hotel, and realised that my clothes didn't stink of stale smoke. The Cork pubs had a separate room for smoking, with glass walls - seemed to work for them.

Looking forward to the ban, as it will mean I don't have to have a shower before going to bed (to stop the bed linen smelling of smoke), after being out for a few drinks

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I feel quite sorry for smokers, it would serve us right if they all decided to give up at once! I wonder how the government would make up the revenue shortfall?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

a cashflow problem for sure but longer term less strain on the nhs (although stress related illnesses may rise during the withrawal process :) ).

can i just plead for no-one to post bluddy speed cameras in response to your question :D

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Boo Hiss etc. I still think landlords (freehold landlords in particular) should have a choice.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

It might be interesting to know how much is generated by tobacco tax compared to what smokers cost the NHS, especially as I seem to remember reports stating that the effects of alcohol cost the NHS more than anything else.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

ah , thought fag ash lil would be along in a min :)

but o/b, landlords and landladies have been expecting this for some time so there's really no excuse for not being prepared for it. and then there are the staff issues etc. what's that you say? we've gone over this already? oh yeah :D

---------- Post added at 12:05 ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 ----------

the societal costs of alcohol must be immense as its noit just nhs but crime and disorder. never really understood why football clubs have to pay for policing* whilst the vertical drinking, happy houring chicago rocks of this world dont.


* dont agree with that policy for the record.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Interesting

through taxation smokers make a major contribution (over £7 billion) to the economic health of the nation, far in excess of the cost (estimated to be £1.5 billion) of treating so-called 'smoking-related diseases' on the NHS.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

hmm that "so called" makes me a bit suspicious ;) source?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Actually that figure maybe 10.5 billion- 1.7 billion, source, anti smoking group but then as they say 'so what'

http://www.ash.org.uk/html/smuggling/html/whytax99.html

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I don't smoke, but I agree. As long as adequate smoking rooms are provided, so those who do object to smoking can get away from it.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

http://www.ash.org.uk/html/smuggling/html/whytax99.html
"It is true that NHS costs are lower than tobacco tax revenues. Tobacco taxation amounts to £10.5 billion per year whereas a figure for NHS spending on tobacco related disease is £1.7 billion. But so what? The comparison is a false one. Tobacco tax is not and never has been a down payment on the cost dealing with ill health caused by smoking."

My mum died of smoking-related diseases (probably due to the fact she smoked 60 untipped full-strength a day (at least) from the age of 13; I don't feel any better knowing that she contributed to the tax revenues by doing so, and saved the country pension payments by dying earlier than she needed to.

Sometimes it's not about costs, it's about value.

---------- Post added at 12:34 ---------- Previous post was at 12:30 ----------

And their staff?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

shuld go and get a job in a pub that's non smoking. Not allowing freehold landlords the choice is tantamount to telling what to do in their own home.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Wouldn't that be disciminating against non-smokers?

What if all the pubs in a town were "smoking" - would this mean the bar-staff would have to risk their health to get a job?

And what is the difference between freehold landlords and people who run small businesses? - they will be affected as well.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I am a smoker but I am glad this is being introduced. Wont make any difference to me as even in a pub I go outside to smoke

Re: smoking and the pub
 

If as many people want a non-smoking pub as the government appears to think, I would be suprised if there weren't several non-smoking pubs in every town..

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Exactly.