Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Well from being a staunch wanting Scotland to remain as part of the union person I now actually would prefer Scotland vote yes and go it alone. Why simple this referendum isn't going to be the end of the issue it's going to drag on and on like a festering sore till the SNP get what they want. I'm already sick and tired of hearing ruk being slagged off all the time and seeing our politicians bending over backwards for Scotland so please vote yes and bugger off to your utopian future. If and when it all goes pear shaped just don't look to ruk to help out in anyway. Sick of the whole damn thing and the division it has created.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

It comes from the EU position, where they assume iScotland will get in and keep all the UK benefits no questions asked despite almost all experts saying this isn't the case.
The CU issue where Salmond says if the Scottish people want it we will get it whilst completely ignoring the 55 million or so rUK people who clearly don't want a foreign country leeching on their central bank.
The debt issue where walking away from your obligations for not getting the deal you want is seen as acceptable and won't have any repercussions.
The free money and unicorns for all where pensions are guaranteed to rise, benefits are guaranteed to rise, wages are guaranteed to rise, free child are for everyone and all their other promises that are uncosted and don't stand up to the slightest scrutiny.

They are resorting to sound bite politics and some areas are buying into it hook, line and sinker.

A 'fairer society'? What does that mean and how are you going to achieve it? Answer that instead of trotting out the words at every opportunity and I'll think about it.

If only you were alive 300 years ago when it was being debated ;)

I'm assuming from that you are fiercely anti-EU and don't want to cede any powers to a capital several hundred miles away, with unelected heads and people who don't speak a common language and history.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

In the words of Dr Ian Malcolm

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

An excellent article in the Scotsman today about mail and telecoms in iScotland.

Basically if you get a yes vote things will be get very expensive, very quickly.

Anyone who uses Internet shopping a lot or lives a bit out the way should be very worried. Would iScotland Mail or iScotland Telecoms be able to offer a universal service at a reasonable cost in such a sparsely populated country?

---------- Post added at 07:49 ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 ----------

http://www.scotsman.com/news/brian-w...ence-1-3533078

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

There wasn't much debate about amongst the general population 300 years ago.

As for your second point I can only assume that you've created anagrams in your head to leap to that assumption.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Hasn't Salmond already said the Royal Mail will do it?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The sort of negativity that is now turning the tide the Yes camp's way. Other sparsely populated countries manage just fine but Scots aren't innovative enough to survive independently in the modern world.

More scaremongering; they're painting pictures of expensively manned borders, the likes of which don't exist between the countries of the EU on mainland Europe.
The old price of a stamp argument is the same one Brian Wilson trotted out in the 1970s. The world has moved on, communications have moved on, the Royal Mail, as described, exists in name only. Communications in the populated area is already being cherry picked by a host of private organisations.

The cost of posting to/from remote areas will come under pressure no matter what the outcome of the referendum... Keep listening to the scarey stories:rolleyes:

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

They do it but with vastly increased costs. I'd prefer not paying £3 to send a Christmas card to relatives down south.

It's not scaremongering it's showing the yes camp want independence whatever the cost.

VAT on everything? - Worth it to get away from Westminster
Huge increases in communication costs - Worth it to get away from Westminster
Tax rises to fund a 'fairer society' - Worth it to get away from Westminster

Salmond, having moved on from admiring Ireland and Iceland since they are basket cases, now wants to be like Norway only without the huge cost of living increases.
The whole yes camp is deluded and dangerous enough to trot out any story with no care for the long impact. I mean they are happy to associate themselves with that wings over Scotland lunatic despite his 9/11 and Hillsborough comments.

---------- Post added at 08:44 ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 ----------

He's pledged to renationalise it, just like most pledges the costs haven't been thought of.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

But the basic principles remain the same. Yes is advocating a better, wealthier, Scotland and No is advocating remaining in the Union. You either believe Yes can offer this or not you either believe Better Together's protestations that their promises aren't possible or you believe they're scaremongering.

(As I side note the SNP have already said there would be a Scottish Public Broadcaster so not sure why saying you won't get the BBC is absurd considering you won't be paying towards it)

I have seen the question before about would Scotland vote Yes to joining the Union and really find it very insulting. It's a slap in the face to everyone else in it and the history behind it. As Derek says there are many times in which Scotland almost certainly would have longed to join. Would Scotland even be in a position to join if it weren't? Did Scotland's trade and manufacturing booms do well in spite or because of the Union? For it's size the UK has been absurdly successful in almost every department.

We don't know what Scotland would be otherwise. Scotland was built in the Union and the Union was built with Scotland. There have been 300 years of pretty successful history in which both sides did well from the it. However in recent times Scotland has had a smaller deficit than the rest of the UK and there is no direct budgetary gain from remaining the Union and the SNP are asking why Scottish money should be spent on the rest of the Union instead of Scotland. Fine. Another reason to vote Yes. This is a one of the moments in the Unions long history where Scotland is a net contributor so I guess it wouldn't join.

As with Rizzyking I am slowly losing the will to care. I do believe Scotland will vote Yes at this point. The momentum is with them and the gap is close.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

The point about that particular argument, is that Scotland as you experience it is entirely a product of the Union. In order to answer your friend's question honestly, you would first have to postulate what Scotland would be like had it not entered political union in 1707 (and also what England would be like).

The question has been posted repeatedly all over the internet for months now but it is polemical. It assumes that had the union never happened, Scotland and England would be exactly as they are, except governed separately. And almost every version of it that I have seen has been accompanied by a great long screed of all the perceived ills of the UK, in extreme and, IMO, highly distorted detail.

Ultimately it's just another version of the wife beater question. Unanswerable, and best left to one side in any serious consideration of the issues.

---------- Post added at 08:59 ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 ----------

This is one of the as-yet unconsidered dimensions of this whole debate. Whether the result is yes or no - but especially if it is a yes - Scotland is going to have to continue to deal with an England that a significant chunk of its politically active population has spent the last 2 years slandering to utterly outrageous degrees. If separation negotiations are necessary, a lot of goodwill will be required for the Nats to get even half of what they've promised the masses in their "white paper". However, thanks to the Nats' own campaign, goodwill is in extremely short supply.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Same old Scaremongering. We're being constantly talked down by the BT campaign as being incapable of running our own affairs. Really, I find it hard to believe that an innovative, resource rich, country such as ours wouldn't thrive.
Cut through the BS from the politicians and the choice is clear - an interdependent, independence or a vague promise of Super devolution.
Don't you realise that the status quo isn't an option?

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Look if you believe every possible drawback of voting Yes is scaremongering then you're not on the fence. You've made up your mind even if you don't it yet. You're a Yes voter.

As I said I don't see what there is to discuss at this point. Derek gives his view, and a article, about the possible drawbacks of implementing a postal service in a largely rural country and you dismiss it as 'same old scaremongering'. If I were to point out the drawbacks of the currency union it would be 'same old scaremongering'.

You either believe Yes or you don't.

BTW In the Banksy cartoon, assume it's real, the girl is scared of the rat. Not shouting at it. That's why she is a little girl.

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Believe me, I haven't made my mind up. I was a definite No until recently. I'm cutting my way through screeds of doom and gloom from one side and unicorns and fluffy white clouds from the other. While it may appear to you that I'm now a committed Yes voter that's probably because so few posters on here are arguing against the doom and gloom. Apparently I can't imagine what Scotland would be like without the Union and it will be cheaper for my sister in Australia to post a christmas card to my Aunt in Bournemouth than it will be for me.
:D

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

Whether you're in the Aye or Naw camp this is quite clever. Stay with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbW_...ature=youtu.be

Re: Will Scotland Leave the UK?
 

If this hasn't already been posted....genuis :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0flxQCmb5oY