re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Farage vs Clegg was by far more interesting than the other two.

I was in the third tier and the audience there was left-wing too although I should you expect it for a Guardian debate. I don't really like heckling or audience members expressing their disapproval to each other in a very obvious way either. The audience was a bit more balanced at the top though and there was at least one guy who was shouting stuff all though.

You may have preferred The Spectator one in the same venue a few weeks later. It was already sold out by the time I saw it but that would have been a more right-wing audience. Clegg was there too as was Daniel Hannan who I used like but now sort of find him very intellectually dishonest.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

You are confusing red-top press rabid hyperbole with reality.

The CAP is not meant to support 'smal farmers', no matter what the Express says...

http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-13-631_en.htm

Nothing about 'small farmers' there... ;)

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

what would the EU and the extended Cameron family do without you defending handouts .

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I missed the Spectator one as well. Gutted about that. You can see it here if you want to. Enjoyed the Guardian one despite the sillyness from the remanians sat around me and was pleased that 'out' won the evenings debate even though it was a tough audience. :)

---------- Post added at 21:01 ---------- Previous post was at 20:56 ----------

Here you go then: Brexit: The (animated) Movie
For those, like arcimedes, with short attention spans. It's got more graphics & gets to the point more succinctly. Easily understood. :)
A good vid nevertheless. :tu:

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Or as it's normally known, pointing out facts... :D

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Odd that you didn't point out this mans conflict of interest in campaigning for remain, it might have been different if he'd declared said interest but he either isn't honest enough to have done that or doesn't believe in the righteousness of his cause to divulge. I'm sure it wouldn't have escaped your attention if it'd been the Labour leader doing the same. Actually it's not odd, there is seemingly nothing your won't defend the conservative party from.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

The worst thing people can do in this referendum is follow political party lines as all that has done in recent times has divided us and been a good distraction allowing politicians of all colours to be less then honourable. It really comes down to the simple question of are we better off in the eu or out in the mid to longterm and vote accordingly. I think the referendum will show a gap between the older and younger more then elections do as younger people have grown up under the eu they haven't known a world without and older can remember that politicians and their lunacy aside the uk is perfectly able to survive outside of the eu and prosper.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Brexit is getting desperate: Boris is resorting to Hitler comparisons:

EU Referendum: Boris Johnson compares EU's aims to Hitler's

As Basil once said (and Ken recently discovered), "don't mention the war .."

The Brexit Tories are now just UKIP, they have lost the Economic argument and are now just left with just the Immigrant card ..

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

He's been swapping notes with Ken Livingstone

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

[QUOTE=ianch99;35837724]Brexit is getting desperate: Boris is resorting to Hitler comparisons:

EU Referendum: Boris Johnson compares EU's aims to Hitler's

As Basil once said (and Ken recently discovered), "don't mention the war .."

The Brexit Tories are now just UKIP, they have lost the Economic argument and are now just left with just the Immigrant card ..[/QUO

- was it not Cameron who cited world wars for a reason for staying in Europe so we can keep an eye on them ?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

AIsn't he just saying what we are thinking? If you want a super state then by all means vote remain.



---------- Post added at 08:33 ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 ----------

[QUOTE=papa smurf;35837728]Who said we have lost the economic argument? Not from where I sit we haven't. We are also left with the independence and sovereignty cards.

Boris is right. How can you berate a man for telling the truth? Yes it's a bit strong - a shock tactic, not desperation.

The Germans couldn't do it in 2 world wars. The French couldn't do it in Napoleon's time. The EU will not succeed either if we vote leave. We've all said it and not a word has been said but when Boris says it he is berated for it. Cameron used the soldiers who died in both wars to justify a Remain vote, what's the difference? It makes me so angry.

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Well let me see:

Bank of England
IMF
The President of the USA
CBI
OECD

Can you provide sources of similar authority advocating the Brexit case?

Boris used to be regarded as a harmless clown. Now he is revealing his true nature: a calculating opportunist. He senses Dave is weak and vulnerable even if he wins the vote and is positioning himself for a Leadership bid even though, he has no national political experience.

Here he is changing his tune when it suits him:

Boris Johnson accused of 'dishonest gymnastics' over TTIP U-turn

I don't think I have read you comparing the EU to a man who committed genocide and being responsible for the deaths of tens of millions?

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I was hoping for an adult debate about this issue.Seems both sides are determined to stick to rhetoric,hyperbole,supposition without a single real fact between them.Fat chance!

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

Continuing the adult debate ;), they think it's all over, well it is now! ABBA (ok, Bjorn) has spoken:

Abba's Björn Ulvaeus on UK's European Union referendum

re: [Update] The UK votes to leave the EU
 

I think you've been a bit selective about the facts there Hugh .Every single piece of literature about the reformed CAP states quite clearly that those reforms are partly aimed at small farmers ,to redistribute the monies more effectively and fairly .These reforms took effect in 2014 and were the result of 3yrs of negotiations with member states

This PDF outlines the reforms and the purpose behind them

This is the relevant bit

At the moment 80% of CAP aid goes to 25% of farms ,most of the budget goes to mega farms owned by the likes of Camerons father in law even Nestle get given millions whilst the small farms get very little. The reforms are meant to redirect CAP subsidies to smaller farms and young farmers starting up .
Whilst CAP is there to help all farmers large and small it is simply not true to say that CAP is not there to help small farmers because the purpose of some of the reforms is precisely that .