Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

How are they driving down the wages of nurses? The pay levels are set nationally and by a pay body.



Much of the shortages are contrived in the sense that minimum staffing levels were brought in, when they weren't apparently needed before. Overnight a massive increase in shortages appeared from nowhere.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

All wages are set by someone in order to fill vacancies. The fact it’s a national body is a red herring.

However rather than pay the going rate we want to undercut our own population. Taking back control indeed.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Yep, moving the goalposts is a common scenario where things have turned for the worse.

My cholesterol level was 'suddenly' higher than it has been for 30 years when they changed the tolerance levels :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Agreed. In fact, we penalised our own aspiring Nurses by taking away their bursary and forcing them to take out loans. We also ensured that they cannot afford to live in our Capital city:

Warning nurses need to earn extra £10,500 ‘to afford London rent’

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

People having to pay 'exorbitant' rent isn't the fault of the people paying their wages.

High rent is the 'supply & demand' of the rental housing market.

Do you not think that road sweepers, shop assistants, bus drivers etc etc are paying rents out of proportion to their wages?

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Still doesn't answer the question of which other high paying jobs they are moving into.


It is widely acknowledged that Labour was too generous with the new GP contracts. How many other people can afford at such a relatively young age(eg in their 40s) to work part-time and maintain their standard of living.
Link from 2007.

I was just pointing out that actual experience and concerns of somebody involved in training doctors at the time, at Queen Elizabeth Hospital, Birmingham.



What proportion of the part-time GPs are female?


How is that meant to help with GP shortages?


Becoming a nurse(or doctor) shouldn't be driven purely by money or status. That would attract the wrong people.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

And that is due to the housing crisis which has been the result of poor government housing policy over the past few decades don't you agree?..

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Nurses argued for degree level training, so why should they be subject to student loans in the same way as students in other subjects are? As Martin Lewis keeps trying to point out, most students pay little or nothing off their student loans. They are not loans in the general context.

Under the "supply and demand" principle, aren't those higher rents a result of having enough people that can pay them? If there weren't enough people who could afford it, the rents would have to drop.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

I'd imagine the choice of paying what is asked or living on the street is an easy one to make

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Indeed, but carries through to decisions made based on the employment opportunities available. If a nurses salary isn’t competitive people will do something else.

However rather than pay the going rate, determined by supply and demand, the Government wants to plug the gap with foreigners!

---------- Post added at 13:50 ---------- Previous post was at 13:47 ----------

Our entire point is that other employment opportunities (e.g. those that can pay the rent or get a mortgage) are better. However rather than pay the rate to attract people we are going to import labour and exacerbate the housing crisis. I didn’t see that on the side of a bus.

“Drive down wages, drive up living costs.”

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

Hasn't in any way shown how/why road sweepers, shop assistants and bus drivers can afford their rent

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

That’s irrelevant to the point I’m making. They could have wealthy partners, huge inheritances, drug dealing, benefit fraud or prostitution for all I know.

We have an under-supply of nurses. Rather than pay more (as the employment market dictates) we are deciding to import cheap labour from overseas rather than upskill British workers into higher paying jobs.

It’s absolutely scandalous.

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

So much for British jobs for British workers...

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

:D

Can't have that and immigration at the same time ;)

---------- Post added at 14:47 ---------- Previous post was at 14:45 ----------

so could nurses and junior doctors ;)

Re: Brexit Development(s) Discussion
 

There's a real risk that, as the largest employer in the country, if the NHS went down this route it might make people question what the point of Brexit is at all if the little guy still gets his/her job undermined by imported labour.

It wasn't all so the rich could avoid an EU tax directive, was it?