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-   -   Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered ! (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33704414)

Osem 14-06-2017 10:57
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35903276)
Well he would, wouldn't he? :rolleyes:
... and so would George Osborne. Not exactly a surprise eh.

OLD BOY 14-06-2017 14:10
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35903266)
Worth remembering at this point that the Labour manifesto explicitly states that its policy is we leave the single market upon leaving the EU.
That's right, which means that about 80% of the electorate voted for a hard Brexit. So why do so many remainers think that the Prime Minister's lack of a majority will affect that?

We cannot control immigration and have control over our own laws AND remain in the single market. The EU leaders have said so.

So the only way for the Conservative and Labour manifestos to be fulfilled is a hard Brexit.

I am surprised that so many remain confused about this. Hard Brexit means hard Brexit! There, that should do it. :D

ianch99 14-06-2017 14:40
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35903266)
Worth remembering at this point that the Labour manifesto explicitly states that its policy is we leave the single market upon leaving the EU.
Can you remind me where it says this? I looked at this page:

http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/manifesto2017/brexit

and struggled to find the explicit statement you mentioned. Must be going blind in my old age!

Osem 14-06-2017 15:32
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 35903344)
That's right, which means that about 80% of the electorate voted for a hard Brexit. So why do so many remainers think that the Prime Minister's lack of a majority will affect that?

We cannot control immigration and have control over our own laws AND remain in the single market. The EU leaders have said so.

So the only way for the Conservative and Labour manifestos to be fulfilled is a hard Brexit.

I am surprised that so many remain confused about this. Hard Brexit means hard Brexit! There, that should do it. :D
They're not confused, they just don't accept the result of the referendum and will say anything to try keep us in.

Chris 14-06-2017 16:09
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35903348)
Can you remind me where it says this? I looked at this page:

http://www.labour.org.uk/index.php/manifesto2017/brexit

and struggled to find the explicit statement you mentioned. Must be going blind in my old age!
Sorry, I thought we were all experts by now. For the avoidance of doubt "access to" and "membership of" are two entirely different things. So when the manifesto states, for example:

"A Labour government will end the uncertainty for our farmers and food producers by securing continued EU market access allowing British farmers and food producers to continue to sell their products on the Continent."

It is quite clear that Labour has accepted that we're leaving the single market and must instead negotiate preferential access to it.

They also say this:

"We will scrap the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain."

The benefits of. Not the membership of.

Apologies if that wasn't explicit enough for you ... I really thought it was.

ianch99 14-06-2017 18:20
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 35903364)
Sorry, I thought we were all experts by now. For the avoidance of doubt "access to" and "membership of" are two entirely different things. So when the manifesto states, for example:

"A Labour government will end the uncertainty for our farmers and food producers by securing continued EU market access allowing British farmers and food producers to continue to sell their products on the Continent."

It is quite clear that Labour has accepted that we're leaving the single market and must instead negotiate preferential access to it.

They also say this:

"We will scrap the Conservatives’ Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union – which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain."

The benefits of. Not the membership of.

Apologies if that wasn't explicit enough for you ... I really thought it was.
You may think you are an expert but, hey, what do experts know, right? ;) There is too much FUD in this process for anyone to call out anything with 100% certainty.

Interesting times ..

pip08456 14-06-2017 18:36
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35903375)
You may think you are an expert but, hey, what do experts know, right? ;) There is too much FUD in this process for anyone to call out anything with 100% certainty.

Interesting times ..
To add to what Chris has posted I would've thought this would be edxplicit enough.

Quote:
We will build a close co-operative future relationship with the EU, not as members but as partners.(my bold)

Osem 14-06-2017 20:31
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35903376)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35903375)
You may think you are an expert but, hey, what do experts know, right? ;) There is too much FUD in this process for anyone to call out anything with 100% certainty.

Interesting times ..
To add to what Chris has posted I would've thought this would be edxplicit enough.
The thing is that a certain proportion of remainers such as Clegg have a vested interest in portraying those who wish to leave the EU as rabid xenophobes who can't wait to haul up the draw bridge and fill the channel tunnel with concrete. It's quite disingenuous and they know it but they feel it's their only chance of undermining the negotiations and hopefully overturning the referendum result. Most people I know who want to leave the EU have no interest in little England or little UK for that matter, they just want the UK to be able to have back the controls various governments have ceded to the EU. They still want to be part of and play a part in Europe as the UK always has.

pip08456 14-06-2017 22:08
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35903391)
The thing is that a certain proportion of remainers such as Clegg have a vested interest in portraying those who wish to leave the EU as rabid xenophobes who can't wait to haul up the draw bridge and fill the channel tunnel with concrete. It's quite disingenuous and they know it but they feel it's their only chance of undermining the negotiations and hopefully overturning the referendum result. Most people I know who want to leave the EU have no interest in little England or little UK for that matter, they just want the UK to be able to have back the controls various governments have ceded to the EU. They still want to be part of and play a part in Europe as the UK always has.
Thats all most of us want. No doom and gloom just to be able to decide our own future and work with the EU if they wish and with anyone else in the world.

We are not Xenophobes or Europhiles, just EUophiles.;)

TheDaddy 15-06-2017 07:19
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35903406)
Thats all most of us want. No doom and gloom just to be able to decide our own future and work with the EU if they wish and with anyone else in the world.

We are not Xenophobes or Europhiles, just EUophiles.;)
Wouldn't being an Euophile mean you actually liked it?

pip08456 15-06-2017 08:12
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35903441)
Wouldn't being an Euophile mean you actually liked it?
Oooops TD, how right you are.

tweetiepooh 15-06-2017 11:45
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35903391)
The thing is that a certain proportion of remainers such as Clegg have a vested interest in portraying those who wish to leave the EU as rabid xenophobes who can't wait to haul up the draw bridge and fill the channel tunnel with concrete.<snip>
Surely that just joins us to Europe and makes it easier not harder to get here?

Mr K 18-06-2017 11:53
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Big business leaders press Theresa May to rethink hard Brexit

Senior business figures have heaped further pressure on Theresa May to change course for a softer Brexit in the wake of the election, amid fresh warnings of the impact of immigration controls and leaving the single market.

Stuart Rose, the Tory peer and chairman of online grocer Ocado, who backed Remain, said the election had been a “proxy re-referendum” against hard Brexit. Karan Bilimoria, the founder of Cobra beer and Remain backer, said the prime minister had “zero credibility” and that Britain could now rethink leaving. And Brian McBride, chairman of ASOS and Wiggle, has raised concerns about access to labour and customs checks.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard

More democracy deniers I should think, or realists having to deal with the suicide note we've written ourselves.

Mick 18-06-2017 13:18
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
More rubbish from a remoaner rag. :zzz:

Mr K 18-06-2017 13:42
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35903803)
More rubbish from a remoaner rag. :zzz:
No, it's from a Tory peer, knight of the realm and leading businessman Mick.
:zzz: is about right from those that choose to ignore these warnings.


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