Cable Forum - Brexit (Old)

So HMG is not being difficult in the negotiations either? as yes the EU are being difficult but they are not the ones who are pulling out of the EU as its up to Theresa May and her government at the end of the day to come to a agreement with the EU and thus so far in two years they have agreed basically diddly squat and my hunch is there will be another delay come next March l suspect.

No we have not been difficult Den.

And you are wrong on it just being us being responsible, yes we are leaving the rotten Union but - it is up to the EU, also to keep Trade deals with existing companies open.

At the end of the day - we are not leaving Europe - we can and should still be able to do trade deals with European Countries, without the corrupted EU's meddling.

Sephiroth

13-10-2018 20:05

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35966389)

You are an apologist for the EU. Disregarding that TM didn't tell the EU to get stuffed right back then (Varoufakis warned her), there was diddly squat that could be achieved except on the EU's terms. The UK were not difficult; we wanted to start from the basis of alignment so that the principles of a trade agreement could be made into a political statement right up front. But the EU wanted to make it difficult for us in a Soviet style show of power to other dissident countries. They were deliberately difficult.

Mick	13-10-2018 20:09

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave42 (Post 35966391)

trying to put words in my mouth again when have a I ever said EU was precious like most remain votes on here EU is far from perfect but we have benefits being a member and our MPs been more corrupted that EU has even been

No they have not - that's utter bullshit and as I have said previously - least we can get rid of such MPs via the ballot box.

The benefits are not worth the con job membership fee, I do not know how many more times have to bloody well say that!!!

denphone

13-10-2018 20:16

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35966392)

No we have not been difficult Den.

Sorry but l disagree with you on that as it takes 2 to come to a amicable agreement and not just one party in discussions.

---------- Post added at 19:16 ---------- Previous post was at 19:12 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 35966393)

You are an apologist for the EU. Disregarding that TM didn't tell the EU to get stuffed right back then (Varoufakis warned her), there was diddly squat that could be achieved except on the EU's terms. The UK were not difficult; we wanted to start from the basis of alignment so that the principles of a trade agreement could be made into a political statement right up front. But the EU wanted to make it difficult for us in a Soviet style show of power to other dissident countries. They were deliberately difficult.

wind your neck in as l am no apologist for the EU and never have been.

Mick	13-10-2018 20:20

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35966395)

Sorry but l disagree with you on that as it takes 2 to come to a amicable agreement and not just one party in discussions.

I am well aware it takes 2, I don't need lectures on how negotiations work Den.

What you're suggesting is we bend over backwards and agree to everything they want - not a chance.

We have made concessions - they have not - so in essence - you are still wrong Den.

---------- Post added at 19:20 ---------- Previous post was at 19:18 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35966395)

wind your neck in as l am no apologist for the EU and never have been.

I beg to differ - you have made posts within last half hour saying, we the UK should move mountains for the EU, while they sit there and do sweet FA!!!

That's being an apologist for the EU, as Seph suggested.

Sephiroth

13-10-2018 20:23

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35966395)

You are justifying the EU being difficult with us by saying that we chose to leave. The clear inference is then why should they be easy with us. You saying that, in the ordinary interpretation of sentiment, comes across as apologist; not for every wrong the EU does - just for their negotiating attitude with the UK.

OLD BOY

13-10-2018 20:25

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35966395)

Sorry but l disagree with you on that as it takes 2 to come to a amicable agreement and not just one party in discussions.

It only needs one party to cause problems and be intransigent, though, Den. As Mick says, if the person you are dealing with is unreasonable, a deal may not be possible unless you bend to their unreasonable demands.

A failure to agree does not necessarily mean that both parties are to blame. It takes, as they say, two to tango. And one to be bloody minded!

denphone

13-10-2018 20:25

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35966397)

I am well aware it takes 2, I don't need lectures on how negotiations work Den.

What you're suggesting is we bend over backwards and agree to everything they want - not a chance.

l never said that as l stated it takes two to come to a agreement and thus so far that agreement is not forthcoming.

jonbxx

13-10-2018 20:26

Re: Brexit

[QUOTE=Sephiroth;35966384]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35966380)

[SEPH]: That's more or less calling me a liar; you shouldn't do that unless I am lying.

The same case was reported in the Telegraph:

The Asylum and Immigration Tribunal ruled that sending the Bolivian man back to his homeland would breach his human rights because he was entitled to a "private and family life", and joint ownership of a pet was evidence that he was fully settled in this country.

:

A court's consideration of the right to family life under Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights often focuses on whether an immigrant should stay in Britain because they have children who were born in this country. However, this is believed to be the first time the courts have been asked to attach weight to joint custody of a pet.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...f-pet-cat.html

Ok, if lie is a bit strong, then it is repeating something known to be untrue. See a summary of the legal argument here - https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/d...at-immigration

And there’s the statement from the judicial office - "This was a case in which the Home Office conceded that they had mistakenly failed to apply their own policy - applying at that time to that appellant - for dealing with unmarried partners of people settled in the UK.
"That was the basis for the decision to uphold the original tribunal decision - the cat had nothing to do with the decision."

Anyway, all kind of irrelevant as this whole thing was down to ECHR and not the EU so Brexit will change nothing

denphone

13-10-2018 20:30

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35966397)

We have made concessions - they have not - so in essence - you are still wrong Den.

So you believe everything that HMG says and nothing the EU says during the negotiations?.

Sephiroth

13-10-2018 20:32

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35966404)

So you believe everything that HMG says and nothing the EU says during the negotiations?.

Mick didn't say that nor could that be inferred.

Mick	13-10-2018 20:34

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35966404)

So you believe everything that HMG says and nothing the EU says during the negotiations?.

LOL - my trust in the EU is 0 Den - thought that should have been obvious by now.

denphone

13-10-2018 20:42

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35966397)

l stated it takes two to come to a agreement as you know full well that is what l said.

pip08456

13-10-2018 20:58

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35966407)

l stated it takes two to come to a agreement as you know full well that is what l said.

Of course it does, it also takes a bit of give and take on both sides. So far the EU have given nothing.
Go figure.

denphone

13-10-2018 21:07

Re: Brexit

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35966406)

LOL - my trust in the EU is 0 Den - thought that should have been obvious by now.

l know your thoughts on the EU as that is as obvious to anybody.

---------- Post added at 20:07 ---------- Previous post was at 20:03 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35966408)

Of course it does, it also takes a bit of give and take on both sides. So far the EU have given nothing.
Go figure.

And that is what HMG has said as l would not place my trust in what they say just as much as l would not place my trust in what the EU says either.

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