Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35862026)

So everyone who voted to remain isn't loyal to the nation, is unpatriotic and should be ashamed. Gotcha.

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35862102)

Not everyone. However, what do you think of the many I spoke to who were voting in purely because brexit would put their job at risk or cost them money?

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35862035)

I assume you're British or a citizen of the commonwealth otherwise you wouldn't have been able to vote? :confused:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35862106)

People have mortgages and families to support. It's not a surprise that they would place that above something like the CJEU which is mostly going to be an abstract thing in their day to day lives. Calling them Unpatriotic because they placed their home or their families above their feelings about the EU is unfair.

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35862102)

How about those who were unconcerned that Junker could basically tell the UK what to do and we had to do it. Unpatriotic?

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35862041)

Millions of patriots voted to remain. They voted for the UK to continue punching above its weight in Europe. They voted for the UK to continue to veto matters they disagreed with like a single European army. They voted for the UK to continue to influence legislation that will impact it whether in or out of Europe. They voted to listen to NATO when they said that Europe was safer with the UK in the EU. They listened to the leader of the free world, President Obama, when he said as a loyal friend of the UK that the US would prefer us to remain in the EU championing our shared values.

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35862111)

If they voted 'in' they voted for the UK to cease to exist as a political entity because the EU was in the process of consuming it (and the rest of the European countries)
As for your comment about Obama, I assume you are joking.

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35862102)

Not everyone. However, what do you think of the many I spoke to who were voting in purely because brexit would put their job at risk or cost them money?
What about those who thought that it was a good thing the the european court had precedence over our high court? How about those who were unconcerned that Junker could basically tell the UK what to do and we had to do it. Unpatriotic?

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35862102)

What about those who thought that it was a good thing the the european court had precedence over our high court? Unpatriotic?

Originally Posted by Ignitionnet (Post 35862115)

What's unpatriotic about not wanting the country to be poorer? You're talking about your own costs, what about those who may suffer during this five years of rough times who can't afford to lose half a million quid?

We pool our sovereignty in various ways with various bodies, from the WTO down.

The idea that one man can tell the UK what to do is absurd. Juncker has no power over the UK at all. Without the agreement of Council of Ministers and EU Parliament nothing is imposed on the UK.

For your comments on sovereignty and patriotism it's pretty obvious you have a strong dislike of the EU, describing its influence as malevolent, and the claim we were going to be consumed somehow is paranoia.

Joining a European superstate would've required a referendum. We rejected the Euro and Schengen, why would we suddenly agree to become part of a federalist EU?

Other EU nations voluntarily joined the Euro and Schengen, fully aware it was part of an ongoing integration process. We abstained, and any attempts to cede further powers require a referendum.

It was accepted that ever-closer union didn't suit the UK before this referendum. Obviously not an issue now.

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We co-founded the European Court of Human Rights and are subject to it. We are subject to, amongst other things, the International Criminal Court.

Your concept of patriotism is a fantasy that hasn't existed in decades.

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35862143)

The reason that it hasn't existed for decades is because of the influence of the EU and it's left wing fellow travellers.
I'm amazed that you still can't see that the ultimate aim of the EU is to do away with the concept of national sovereignty and the implemantation of complete fiscal and political control of all the constituent countries.....at which point they cease to exist as indendent entities. Voting to stay in the EU, knowing all that, is an unpatriotic act. :shrug:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35862147)

Tell the 96% of residents in Gibraltar who voted to remain that they're unpatriotic and I think they'll convince you otherwise!
As others have done their best to explain to you - the UK would not have to join a more integrated EU. We opted out of the Euro, we said no to the Shengen agreement. Knowing that, why on earth would anyone suggest that it is unpatriotic to remain in the EU?

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35862163)

Because in the EU we have no ultimate control over our affairs. Have you forgotten how little Cameron managed to extract from the EU when he went over there cap in hand? :shrug:

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35862108)

British. Both parents Latvian immigrants (displaced persons after WW2)

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35862169)

Do you think people in similar positions to your parents would still be allowed to come here in the coming years?

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35862163)

Because in the EU we have no ultimate control over our affairs. Have you forgotten how little Cameron managed to extract from the EU when he went over there cap in hand? :shrug:

Originally Posted by Ramrod (Post 35862143)

The reason that it hasn't existed for decades is because of the influence of the EU and it's left wing fellow travellers.