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-   -   Starmer’s chronicles (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33712992)

Sephiroth 07-05-2025 17:03
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36196219)
No.

We should be exploiting whatever’s left of our expertise in nuclear energy. Thankfully, while we shamefully allowed our civil capability to wither to the point that we had to ask EDF to build new mega-scale power stations for us, our military nuclear capability means we can yet get back in the game with small and medium sized modular reactor plants derived from the designs used in our submarines. And in the next 6-7 years we will have expanded our uranium enrichment capabilities to the point where we can securely fuel them as well.

Oil and gas is traded on international markets wherever it is produced and it would only ever be nationalised for domestic use only in a dire existential emergency. The fact that we have plenty of it under our seas does not therefore offer us the hassle-free energy security you seem to think it does.
Of course, yes, on the nuclear point. But it takes decades to bring a nuclear power station from zero to operation. Sealing coal mines and gas wells, etc, is reckless.

Chris 07-05-2025 18:28
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36196220)
Would you be happy to have this miracle of modern science next to your house?
I have taken my summer holidays just a few miles from Hunterston A & B every year for the past couple of decades. They’re in the background of most beach photos we have of our kids. So … yes.

---------- Post added at 18:28 ---------- Previous post was at 18:25 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196221)
Of course, yes, on the nuclear point. But it takes decades to bring a nuclear power station from zero to operation. Sealing coal mines and gas wells, etc, is reckless.
The point of Rolls Royce’s SMRs is that they *don’t* take decades to bring on stream. You don’t have to design a massive bespoke site for each one because they are small enough to be contained on a modest sized piece of land. The idea is you build more of them, in more places.

pip08456 07-05-2025 18:53
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196221)
Of course, yes, on the nuclear point. But it takes decades to bring a nuclear power station from zero to operation. Sealing coal mines and gas wells, etc, is reckless.
Chris is correct and I get your point about nuclear power stations but Chris wasn't referrring to those.

Perhaps see here. https://www.rolls-royce-smr.com/

Pierre 07-05-2025 19:56
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36196217)
Renewables are amongst the cheapest energy sources
That is not reflected in our energy bills, and until it is they will be rightly looked upon sceptically.

Hornsea 4 has just been cancelled by Orested.

We should be fracking, exploiting new gas and oil fields, building nuclear…..we should be doing everything.

If we don’t lower energy costs the economy is fugazi.

---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36196219)
Oil and gas is traded on international markets wherever it is produced and it would only ever be nationalised for domestic use only in a dire existential emergency. The fact that we have plenty of it under our seas does not therefore offer us the hassle-free energy security you seem to think it does.
As a sovereign nation we can do what we like. If that means invoking legislation that a licence to exploit oil and gas in the U.K. EEZ comes with a stipulation that a % of output is supplied to the U.K. at a reduction…..or any other hair brained scheme.

Chris 07-05-2025 20:20
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36196237)
That is not reflected in our energy bills, and until it is they will be rightly looked upon sceptically.

Hornsea 4 has just been cancelled by Orested.

We should be fracking, exploiting new gas and oil fields, building nuclear…..we should be doing everything.

If we don’t lower energy costs the economy is fugazi.

---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------



As a sovereign nation we can do what we like. If that means invoking legislation that a licence to exploit oil and gas in the U.K. EEZ comes with a stipulation that a % of output is supplied to the U.K. at a reduction…..or any other hair brained scheme.
We can indeed do what we like. International norms however constrain us, as they constrain everyone else. Diverting oil and gas to domestic supply outwith a major emergency comes with serious reputational risks that generate political and financial consequences. So we can, and also we can’t.

1andrew1 07-05-2025 20:43
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36196237)
That is not reflected in our energy bills, and until it is they will be rightly looked upon sceptically.
They can be viewed sceptically, but not rightly. The price of electricity in the UK is based upon that electricity derived from gas.

Quote:
Gas sets the price of electricity, because the electricity price in every half hour period is set by the marginal cost of the last generating unit to be turned off to meet demand – which is invariably a gas power plant with high marginal costs.

To provide an analogy, think of a penalty shootout in a sporting competition. A team will select a list of individuals in order of preference, with the best individuals selected first (i.e., renewables). But it’s the individual who steps up last who has the final say, deciding the fate of the result.

The problem we have at the moment is that whilst renewable capacity has grown significantly, natural gas is still responsible for 38% of our electricity generation in the UK.

When we have periods of low winds for example, the system will often turn to gas generators to fill that demand. But that comes at a high price, and even more so recently with the record prices on the wholesale gas market. As we move to a high renewable powered electricity system, it doesn’t make sense to have gas generators setting the price.
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1746646986

https://www.goodenergy.co.uk/blog/wh...ricity-prices/

Sephiroth 07-05-2025 20:56
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Er - we must have electricity. This comes before worrying about the price of gas.

Maybe the SMRs will save us - but when are they?

1andrew1 07-05-2025 21:42
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196242)
Er - we must have electricity. This comes before worrying about the price of gas.

Maybe the SMRs will save us - but when are they?
No one is saying we don't need electricity. Just at the moment the price of electricity is set by the price of gas.

Damien 08-05-2025 07:53
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Trump set to announce UK-US trade deal: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn91dxzv4pnt

Brance yourselves, this will contain a lot of stuff we don't like

papa smurf 08-05-2025 08:01
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36196254)
Trump set to announce UK-US trade deal: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn91dxzv4pnt

Brance yourselves, this will contain a lot of stuff we don't like
like Mc donalds /KFC/ swimming pool chicken/ royd rage beef /exploding cars/piss weak beer......

1andrew1 08-05-2025 08:10
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196207)
Miliband’s nonsense has played just as squarely into the election results as the stiffing by Starmer of the pensioners.

In today’s PM questions, Kemi successfully skewered Starmer who referred to notes on every question without going near an answer. I doubt that the swing voters watch PM’s questions, but the media will have their regular weekly fun pulling that liar apart.
Lol, both in bad form but Starmer given an easy ride as she couldn't mention Labour's local election results for fear of highlighting her Party's failings here too. Embarrassing to see India later correcting her on the trade deal as well! Truly Reform's useless idiot.

Sephiroth 08-05-2025 08:19
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36196255)
like Mc donalds /KFC/ swimming pool chicken/ royd rage beef /exploding cars/piss weak beer......
I don't know about "piss weak beer", but I do know the stuff left me with a headache every time I drank it. We need a trade deal with the US just to get bottled beer brewed in the UK.

Starmer is a good example of "piss weak beer".

1andrew1 08-05-2025 08:20
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36196254)
Trump set to announce UK-US trade deal: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn91dxzv4pnt

Brance yourselves, this will contain a lot of stuff we don't like
Devil's in the detail but looks like another diplomatic success. King Charles's letter may have worked!

Sephiroth 08-05-2025 08:22
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36196259)
Devil's in the detail but looks like another diplomatic success. King Charles's letter may have worked!
Is it? Maybe so - but it could be argued that the UK was low hanging fruit for Trump, who wants the wider world to reduce tariffs against the US and hence an early deal with someone is a sign to others.

1andrew1 08-05-2025 08:28
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196258)
I don't know about "piss weak beer", but I do know the stuff left me with a headache every time I drank it. We need a trade deal with the US just to get bottled beer brewed in the UK.

Starmer is a good example of "piss weak beer".
Plenty of US beers like Coors, Budweiser, Miller, Brooklyn are brewed in the UK. Not sure what your point is.

---------- Post added at 08:28 ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196260)
Is it? Maybe so - but it could be argued that the UK was low hanging fruit for Trump, who wants the wider world to reduce tariffs against the US and hence an early deal with someone is a sign to others.
On paper, we don't have the bargaining power of larger blocs like the EU but we should be more agile. So theoretically we should get a quicker but poorer deal. Let's see, other factors at play too.

Sephiroth 08-05-2025 08:33
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36196261)
Plenty of US beers like Coors, Budweiser, Miller, Brooklyn are brewed in the UK. Not sure what your point is.
Alternatives to US beer is my point.

I should add that it is 20 years since my last US trip and so there may well be European beers available there now.


---------- Post added at 08:33 ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36196261)
Plenty of US beers like Coors, Budweiser, Miller, Brooklyn are brewed in the UK. Not sure what your point is.

---------- Post added at 08:28 ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 ----------


On paper, we don't have the bargaining power of larger blocs like the EU but we should be more agile. So theoretically we should get a quicker but poorer deal. Let's see, other factors at play too.
Ah - the EU. If Trump is true to his word, he'll not make it easy for the EU.

In this regard, I'm caught between Trump the bad egg and Trump the mischievous bugger out to rattle the EU.

papa smurf 08-05-2025 08:36
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
[QUOTE=1andrew1;36196261]Plenty of US beers like Coors, Budweiser, Miller, Brooklyn are brewed in the UK. Not sure what your point is.

---------- Post added at 08:28 ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 ----------


On paper, we don't have the bargaining power of larger blocs like the EU but we should be more agile. So theoretically we should get a quicker but poorer deal. Let's see, other factors at play too.[/QUOTE]

don't forget "the EU was set up to screw the USA" they aint popular with Trump

Hugh 08-05-2025 08:38
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196264)
Alternatives to US beer is my point.

I should add that it is 20 years since my last US trip and so there may well be European beers available there now.


---------- Post added at 08:33 ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 ----------



Ah - the EU. If Trump is true to his word, he'll not make it easy for the EU.

In this regard, I'm caught between Trump the bad egg and Trump the mischievous bugger out to rattle the EU.
Beer has improved drastically over there - lots and lots of local microbreweries.

Pre-COVID (and literally when it kicked off), we had, over a number of years this century, visited New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Cape Cod, South Carolina, Georgia, California, Florida, and Louisiana, and they all had a wide range of decent beers from the non-Major breweries.

jonbxx 08-05-2025 09:10
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36196268)
Beer has improved drastically over there - lots and lots of local microbreweries.

Pre-COVID (and literally when it kicked off), we had, over a number of years this century, visited New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Cape Cod, South Carolina, Georgia, California, Florida, and Louisiana, and they all had a wide range of decent beers from the non-Major breweries.
Yeah, the US have really upped their game on beers. Prohibition killed the brewing tradition in the states and it has taken a long time to recover the skills lost. That said, the loss of the traditional brewing industry means that new breweries do what the hell they want and make really interesting stuff, often taking the best of older brewing techniques and mixing them up.

My favourite beer ever is from Maine - Allagash White, a Belgian style wheat beer

Russ 08-05-2025 09:15
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36196274)
Yeah, the US have really upped their game on beers.
Pah, we could still out-drink them any day of the week.

Sephiroth 08-05-2025 09:23
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36196275)
Pah, we could still out-drink them any day of the week.
Nothing to be proud of.

papa smurf 08-05-2025 09:35
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196276)
Nothing to be proud of.
TBF it's wales they have one pint then spend the rest of the day arguing who's round it is next

Russ 08-05-2025 09:39
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36196279)
TBF it's wales they have one pint then spend the rest of the day arguing who's round it is next
I wouldn’t know, I haven’t touched alcohol since January 2011. What does this have to do with Labour anyway?

Sephiroth 08-05-2025 09:43
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36196282)
I wouldn’t know, I haven’t touched alcohol since January 2011. What does this have to do with Labour anyway?
You mentioned something about "we could still out-drink them". But since you're abstinent you are probably unqualified to have made that remark.

Anyway, wasn't it Labour that introduced 'beer and sandwiches'?

Russ 08-05-2025 09:53
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196286)
You mentioned something about "we could still out-drink them". But since you're abstinent you are probably unqualified to have made that remark.
Doesn’t mean I don’t socialise with people who drink.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196286)
Anyway, wasn't it Labour that introduced 'beer and sandwiches'?
Pretty sure they’ve been around long since before politics.

Chris 08-05-2025 10:18
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196286)
Anyway, wasn't it Labour that introduced 'beer and sandwiches'?
The tabloid press introduced the term as a disparaging way of describing trade union leaders meeting the PM at 10 Downing Street. The idea being that they couldn’t tolerate lunch at a table with a knife and fork and (supposedly) demanded the fayre they would expect at their working men’s club back home.

It’s a crude class stereotype, whether it has any basis in fact as far as negotiations in Downing Street in the 1970s are concerned, I have no idea. It certainly would have no basis in fact now. Trade unions, based on their recent public pronouncements at least, have largely abandoned working people in favour of faddish identitarian causes.

Sephiroth 08-05-2025 10:25
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

https://independentblogposts.wordpre...nd-sandwiches/
Quote:
Greene and the other rail union leaders fought endless battles over pay and conditions … Late-night talks became a staple diet for ministers and union leaders. In fact, it is possible to be precise about the birth of what became the “beer and sandwiches” syndrome, at midnight on February 12 1966, when Harold Wilson succeeded in persuading the rail unions to call off a planned national strike.

Greene was there at No 10 Downing Street, warily steering his executive towards a peace deal. The prime minister’s wife, Mary Wilson, along with the No 10 staff, made the sandwiches and used up all the remaining bread, including raiding the No 11 larder next door, where a sleeping chancellor, James Callaghan, was left without a loaf.

TheDaddy 08-05-2025 12:28
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36196069)
Oh, really? Do you have a link for that as something he has ever said in the last 10 years?

He has made it clear on many occasions that NHS treatment will be free at the point of delivery under a Reform government. How many times does he have to repeat this for it to sink in?

He has said the funding model needs to be reviewed and we all know that we cannot continue to put ever increasing amounts of money into the NHS. But whatever that results in, he has promised to keep its services free at the point of delivery.
I had a look on full fact and he does appear to have realised that scrapping the NHS would make him a pariah, bit like how brexit should've made him one once his lies were fully exposed but I'm still not convinced as when the Conservatives invited private insurance companies over a couple of years back they weren't the much vaunted European ones farage is now so impressed by it was American ones so you can see the direction of travel they were looking at

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36196077)
Come on, link please.

Or are you basing it on people that bought a house within the M25 in 50yrs ago that is now worth £X million, but they can’t afford to heat it?
[
How else do you work it out other than by value of assets, pension pots and ready cash? Are you really saying that someone sitting in an asset worth that much deserves government help from taxes paid by younger people who have most likely no house or the prospect of ever buying one, I call bs on that and perhaps this quote is more apt than I first thought, especially if you take NHS out and insert government

Quote:
Perhaps a change of name from NHS to" national hold your hand you poor hard done by thing "

Damien 08-05-2025 13:50
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Trump is holding a press conference at 3pm to about this UK-US trade deal.

1andrew1 08-05-2025 14:05
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36196301)
Trump is holding a press conference at 3pm to about this UK-US trade deal.
'Beautiful' trade deal

Itshim 08-05-2025 14:08
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36196301)
Trump is holding a press conference at 3pm to about this UK-US trade deal.
He needs something to wave around , big build up, bigger let down , enjoy the spin.:shocked:

papa smurf 08-05-2025 14:31
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36196303)
'Beautiful' trade deal
The only trade deal as no one else is talking to him cos he's nuts

Pierre 08-05-2025 19:58
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36196296)
How else do you work it out other than by value of assets, pension pots and ready cash? Are you really saying that someone sitting in an asset worth that much deserves government help from taxes paid by younger people who have most likely no house or the prospect of ever buying one,
So, ignoring the taxes paid by the home (asset) owner, all their lives….I’ll park that.

So you’re suggesting that all those people within the M25 (and not just there) whose homes have appreciated over the years (but only in line with all the properties around them), what? They should sell? And move where? Up North? Rural Wales?

BTW selling those properties won’t make them any cheaper for younger people.

Your assessment is naive, envious and just ignorant

Quote:
I call bs on that and perhaps this quote is more apt than I first thought, especially if you take NHS out and insert government
I call BS on you and your Jealous, envious, entitled attitude.

TheDaddy 08-05-2025 20:51
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36196319)
So, ignoring the taxes paid by the home (asset) owner, all their lives….I’ll park that.

So you’re suggesting that all those people within the M25 (and not just there) whose homes have appreciated over the years (but only in line with all the properties around them), what? They should sell? And move where? Up North? Rural Wales?

BTW selling those properties won’t make them any cheaper for younger people.

Your assessment is naive, envious and just ignorant


I call BS on you and your Jealous, envious, entitled attitude.
I'm not jealous or entitled, I've just sold my flat inside the M25, I wasn't entitled enough to expect other people to heat it for me either.

Pierre 08-05-2025 22:00
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36196322)
I'm not jealous or entitled,
Your response suggest otherwise.

Quote:
I've just sold my flat inside the M25,
Hooray! And? What exactly is your point. Did you make a profit? How much? Are you now moving to Stockton, as I expect you think everyone should do.

Did you invest in the property and maximise your return, or just leave it and take the market increase?

Quote:
I wasn't entitled enough to expect other people to heat it for me ueither.
Good, don’t know why you might expect other people to heat your house anyway.

TheDaddy 09-05-2025 10:33
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36196323)
Your response suggest otherwise.



Hooray! And? What exactly is your point. Did you make a profit? How much? Are you now moving to Stockton, as I expect you think everyone should do.

Did you invest in the property and maximise your return, or just leave it and take the market increase?



Good, don’t know why you might expect other people to heat your house anyway.
Point is that when your rather ugly personality makes things personal you're usually wrong about the persons character or motives you're attacking, just like you have been here. We disagree that people with over a million quid in cash or assets should be getting state help, big deal.

Hugh 09-05-2025 11:59
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36196254)
Trump set to announce UK-US trade deal: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cn91dxzv4pnt

Brance yourselves, this will contain a lot of stuff we don't like
From the "Trade Deal" document...

https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files...20rev%20v2.pdf

Quote:
Both the United States and the United Kingdom recognize that this document does not constitute a legally binding agreement

papa smurf 09-05-2025 12:08
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36196336)
is that the same as "not worth the paper it's written on"

RichardCoulter 09-05-2025 13:30
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
:bsmack::clap:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36196332)
Point is that when your rather ugly personality makes things personal you're usually wrong about the persons character or motives you're attacking, just like you have been here. We disagree that people with over a million quid in cash or assets should be getting state help, big deal.
:clap: :clap:

Pierre 09-05-2025 14:14
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36196332)
Point is that when your rather ugly personality makes things personal
They are always what they accuse you of.

---------- Post added at 14:14 ---------- Previous post was at 14:14 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36196338)
:bsmack::clap:

:clap: :clap:

Russ 09-05-2025 14:27
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
:rofl:

Paul 09-05-2025 18:59
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Lets get back to the topic please.

Mr K 09-05-2025 20:25
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
I think Sir K is super :) He's managed 2 trade deals in the last week. The Tories failed to do that in 8 years.

Love the right wing press reaction. They can't decide whether the deals are fantastic ( due to Brexit) , or a crap sell out, because its Labour , or we'd have been far better staying in the EU after all. The poor darlings are having a breakdown... Bless them.

Sephiroth 09-05-2025 20:40
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36196352)
I think Sir K is super :) He's managed 2 trade deals in the last week. The Tories failed to do that in 8 years.

Love the right wing press reaction. They can't decide whether the deals are fantastic ( due to Brexit) , or a crap sell out, because its Labour , or we'd have been far better staying in the EU after all. The poor darlings are having a breakdown... Bless them.
I think Mr K is wrong. The Tories (while they were messing the UK up in other ways) did trade deals with:

Albania, Andean Group (3), Australia, Cameroon, Canada, Cariform Group (14), Central America Group (6), Eastern & Southern Africa (4), EU (31) ... the list goes on - a further 37 countries including Japan, New Zealand, Turkey, Singapore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_t...0New%20Zealand.

Hugh 09-05-2025 20:47
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Five of these are 'new' trade agreements, such as with Australia and New Zealand.

OLD BOY 09-05-2025 22:06
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36196352)
I think Sir K is super :) He's managed 2 trade deals in the last week. The Tories failed to do that in 8 years.

Love the right wing press reaction. They can't decide whether the deals are fantastic ( due to Brexit) , or a crap sell out, because its Labour , or we'd have been far better staying in the EU after all. The poor darlings are having a breakdown... Bless them.
You don’t get it. Starmer’s trade deal was a very small deal designed to address the tariff issue. The Conservatives one was a comprehensive trade deal which Trump would have signed had Biden not got in. Starmer has failed to take that forward, hence the criticism.

---------- Post added at 22:06 ---------- Previous post was at 22:05 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196353)
I think Mr K is wrong. The Tories (while they were messing the UK up in other ways) did trade deals with:

Albania, Andean Group (3), Australia, Cameroon, Canada, Cariform Group (14), Central America Group (6), Eastern & Southern Africa (4), EU (31) ... the list goes on - a further 37 countries including Japan, New Zealand, Turkey, Singapore.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_t...0New%20Zealand.
To be fair, I think the majority of those were ‘continuation deals’ negotiated by Truss.

Sephiroth 09-05-2025 22:21
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
As Hugh has pointed out, several of them were new agreements.
Nevertheless, continuation agreements had to be negotiated.

OLD BOY 10-05-2025 02:26
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196372)
As Hugh has pointed out, several of them were new agreements.
Nevertheless, continuation agreements had to be negotiated.
Indeed. I was just clarifying. It was vital that we negotiated continuation deals.

Pierre 12-05-2025 09:35
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Starmer announces nothing in big press conference.

Apparently he's going to reduce immigration by the end of the parliament, but not put a number on it.

Quote:
"I don't think it's sensible to put a hard-edged cap on it - that has been done in one form or another for the best part of 10 years by different prime ministers."

He says "every single one" of the caps that have previously been imposed "failed", and he will not repeat that.
He's going to make sure he doesn't fail, by not specifying how much he will reduce it by.

Genius, there's a man with conviction, a leader who's determined to succeed in his plan.

and what is his plan?

Quote:
He says the white paper sets out that every area of the immigration system will be tightened up.

This includes:

Skill requirements raised to degree level
English language requirements
The time it takes to get settled status raised from 5 years to 10 years
Oh right, that's definitely going to sort out the boats, Mohammad was just about to jump in a dinghy until someone pointed out to him that he didn't have a degree, so he got off and went back to Eritrea.


https://news.sky.com/story/politics-...#liveblog-body

peanut 12-05-2025 10:06
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Sounds more like a man that's panicking due to certain recent results.... No doubt the Tories will rubbish it and call it pathetic at some point.

Damien 12-05-2025 10:20
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Putting a hard number is stupid, which I doubt many politicians will fall for again.

Part of the problem here is that it's hard to stop the boats so they go after legal migration, which is by far the much bigger number, but in many cases, this might be immigration the country needs, such as social workers.

Immigration will certainly fall if you make it harder to get visas.

Itshim 12-05-2025 10:44
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36196464)
Putting a hard number is stupid, which I doubt many politicians will fall for again.

Part of the problem here is that it's hard to stop the boats so they go after legal migration, which is by far the much bigger number, but in many cases, this might be immigration the country needs, such as social workers.

Immigration will certainly fall if you make it harder to get visas.
My problem is not legal immigration, yes it needs tighten up. It's the illegal ones that cost the country billions that need to be stopped , Sir keir in playing with numbers. Not addressing the real problem. The answer is so simple offer them NO support and remove any government support to organisations that do.

Damien 12-05-2025 10:45
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36196466)
My problem is not legal immigration, yes it needs tighten up. It's the illegal ones that cost the country billions that need to be stopped , Sir keir in playing with numbers. Not addressing the real problem. The answer is so simple offer them NO support and remove any government support to organisations that do.
The boats are a relatively small number. As are refugees. The biggest numbers are students and workers. That's the easiest way to bring down the numbers. They were due to come down anyway as there was a huge increase a few agos.

Itshim 12-05-2025 10:47
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36196467)
The boats are a relatively small number. As are refugees. The biggest numbers are students and workers. That's the easiest way to bring down the numbers. They were due to come down anyway as there was a huge increase a few agos.
The money it's all about the money:rolleyes:

Sephiroth 12-05-2025 11:53
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
The plan just announced needs to think through where critical skill shortages lie. Certain jobs will be shunned by Brits - I believe we need Phillipino careers and the are a real fit for the job. On Ferrari today, it was mentioned that the UK is short of lift engineers - the man discussing this imports labour fir this highly skilled role from the Middle East. All the dots need joining.

papa smurf 12-05-2025 12:13
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
looks like cutting down on legal migration, and what about the illegal migration what's happening with that other than empty words.

Sephiroth 12-05-2025 12:58
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Not only that, Papa, but the number of fighting age illegals exceeds the size of the British Army. It’s coming if not already here.

papa smurf 12-05-2025 13:10
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196474)
Not only that, Papa, but the number of fighting age illegals exceeds the size of the British Army. It’s coming if not already here.
400 boat invaders today and it's only lunch time

Hugh 12-05-2025 13:46
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196474)
Not only that, Papa, but the number of fighting age illegals exceeds the size of the British Army. It’s coming if not already here.
You really need to stop reading "Great Replacement Theory" paranoid fantasies…

papa smurf 12-05-2025 14:03
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
528 small boat invaders today and it's only 2pm

Sephiroth 12-05-2025 14:07
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36196478)
You really need to stop reading "Great Replacement Theory" paranoid fantasies…
You might as well start facing east now.

Hugh 12-05-2025 15:03
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196480)
You might as well start facing east now.
When I go to church, I already do…

Sephiroth 12-05-2025 15:13
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36196482)
When I go to church, I already do…
Keep praying. It's your only hope. Your glib answers will bite you back one day unless something drastic is done to stop the enemy within.

Starmer is not that person and soon, nobody will be able to stop it. I'll bet the Iranian embassy basement is overflowing with weapons for handing out.

papa smurf 12-05-2025 16:20
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
now 600 small boat invaders today and another boat on the way

---------- Post added at 16:20 ---------- Previous post was at 15:38 ----------

Police are investigating a fire at the prime minister's house in north London.

The blaze at Sir Keir Starmer's property happened in the early hours of this morning.

https://news.sky.com/story/fire-at-s...olice-13366745

papa smurf 13-05-2025 08:13
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Man arrested over arson attacks after fire at Sir Keir Starmer's house
Police have confirmed the Met's Counter Terrorism Command is leading the investigation because of the "connections with a high-profile public figure".


https://news.sky.com/story/man-arres...house-13366942

quick response

Itshim 13-05-2025 14:05
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36196499)
Man arrested over arson attacks after fire at Sir Keir Starmer's house
Police have confirmed the Met's Counter Terrorism Command is leading the investigation because of the "connections with a high-profile public figure".


https://news.sky.com/story/man-arres...house-13366942

quick response
Thought it heard houses ,( two he owns)

Hugh 13-05-2025 18:16
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36196506)
Thought it heard houses ,( two he owns)
You may have misheard - one of the properties was a flat he lived in 28 years ago…

Sephiroth 14-05-2025 10:43
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Another gem of a newspaper article (from yesterday’s Standard). It methodically explains the government’s finance problem - the ratio of working age people to retired people.

Quote:

On a recent edition of the BBC’s Question Time, at around 24 minutes, panellist Alastair Campbell said: “Because we’re an ageing population, when I was growing up – and people were getting their pension – there were 20 people of working age for every pensioner. And they were working. Now, you’ve got fewer than three.”

Mr Campbell also said that his podcast co-host Rory Stewart had made the same point a week earlier. On the previous week’s edition, at around 10 minutes, Mr Stewart said: “When the welfare state was set up, there were 20 working people for every one retired person. Today, there are fewer than three working people for every retired person.”

Evaluation

Based on the most recently available statistics, there are slightly more than three working age people for every pensioner in the UK. It is projected to fall below three in the decades to come.

This has reduced since the introduction of the basic state pension in 1948, when it was around five working age people per pensioner. During Mr Campbell’s youth in the 1960s it was a ratio of around 4:1. If Mr Stewart places the creation of the welfare state in the early 20th century when the first state pension was established, then his figure appears to be broadly accurate.

The facts

The Office for National Statistics keeps track of the estimated population of the UK. In a dataset covering 1838 to 2023, the ONS recorded 43,199,200 people aged between 16 and 65 in the UK as of mid-2022. This is the working age population, as the state pension age is 66(rising to 67 by 2028). At the same time, there were 12,006,567 people aged 66 and over. This equates to 3.6 working age people per pensioner, or alternatively 278 pensioners for every 1,000 people of working age.

A government review into the state pension age in 2023 projected that this ratio would rise from 280 pensioners per 1,000 people of working age to around 393 pensioners. This would be the equivalent of 2.5 people of working age for every pensioner. While this is “fewer than three” as claimed by Mr Campbell and Mr Stewart, this figure is a projection for the year 2070.

The ONS data breaking down the UK population by age goes back to 1971, but it does record the population for Great Britain in 1961 (thus excluding Northern Ireland from the data). As Mr Campbell was born in 1957, he could reasonably be said to have been “growing up” at this time.

In 1961, the state pension age was 65 for men and 60 for women. Working age men and women were counted at 31,107,039, and those over state pension age at 7,566,439. This is equivalent to 4.1 working age people per pensioner, far from the 20 that Mr Campbell claimed. The total UK population would have to have reached around 160 million to provide 20 working age people for every pensioner.

Mr Stewart’s point was slightly different. He pegged the ratio of 20:1 to the introduction of the welfare state. This could mean 1948, when the NHS was created and the Basic State Pension introduced. Or it could mean 1909, when the Old Age Pension was created. And although he used the phrase “working people”, for this analysis it is assumed he meant working age people rather than those actually employed.

For 1948, the ONS data only covers England and Wales and is divided into bands of five years, for example grouping 16-year-olds into a 15-19 category, and rounded to the nearest thousand. Using this information, the number of working age men and women was 28,367,000. Counting men 65 and over with women who were 60 and over, the number of pensioners stood at 5,811,000. That is 4.9 workers per pensioner. While this does represent a significantly younger population, it is still nowhere near Mr Stewart’s claim.
The same ONS table as the 1948 data goes as far back as 1911, just two years after the introduction of the first state pension. This was paid at the age of 70. There were 23,929,000 people aged between 15 and 69, with just 1,092,000 living past the pensionable age. That would mean there were 22 working age people for every pensioner.
Boy are we up shit creek.

OLD BOY 14-05-2025 16:46
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196539)
Another gem of a newspaper article (from yesterday’s Standard). It methodically explains the government’s finance problem - the ratio of working age people to retired people.



Boy are we up shit creek.
One thing the government could do is ensure that people who hit retirement age are not forced to retire. That would help a little towards restoring the balance.

It won’t solve the problem of course, but it would certainly help. Some people are willing and capable of carrying on well after retirement age - look at Rupert Murdoch and David Attenborough, for example.

But not everyone is able to do so because their employers like to invest in younger people.

Paul 14-05-2025 17:03
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36196551)
One thing the government could do is ensure that people who hit retirement age are not forced to retire.
They did, in 2011.

Quote:
Employers used to be able to force workers to retire at 65 (known as the Default Retirement Age), but this law was scrapped in April 2011, following a campaign by Age UK.

This means that you can keep working beyond 65 if you want or need to.
https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information...etirement-age/

Damien 14-05-2025 18:49
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce80nl1k0p3o

More prisoners are to be released early as prisons are at 99% capacity. There will finally be more prisons built though, something the government should have done years ago.

tweetiepooh 15-05-2025 13:08
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
I just turned 60 so get my NHS pension now. I could delay it but wouldn't get anymore so I just let the money come in. If I could have left it in and have it grow a bit in value, like my other final salary pension, I would get more when I need it and wouldn't get money early while I am still earning. It may not give me more money in total but based on the other pension delaying 5 years would mean quite a bit more monthly income.


Maybe it is worth thinking about survival rates. At one time people didn't (generally) live for decades on a pension now they more than likely will do (until HMG push the pension age to 90!)

Damien 15-05-2025 14:25
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tweetiepooh (Post 36196589)
Maybe it is worth thinking about survival rates. At one time people didn't (generally) live for decades on a pension now they more than likely will do (until HMG push the pension age to 90!)
The treasury is fully aware of this, but the political will isn't there. Labour blew all their political capital on the winter fuel allowance, and that was relatively small compared to cutting the triple lock or raising the retirement age. It's political suicide to do that now.

It's also not that easy, given you need to consider if people will remain in a fit condition to work and if the expanded workforce makes it harder for younger people to find work.

The best thing we can do for now is try to ensure people have other savings, such as the workplace pension scheme the Tories put in, but given the cost of living, that's not great either :erm:

Sephiroth 15-05-2025 14:27
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36196551)
One thing the government could do is ensure that people who hit retirement age are not forced to retire. That would help a little towards restoring the balance.

It won’t solve the problem of course, but it would certainly help. Some people are willing and capable of carrying on well after retirement age - look at Rupert Murdoch and David Attenborough, for example.

But not everyone is able to do so because their employers like to invest in younger people.
Also, the government should restore 3rd child allowance as incentive to make more babies.

Damien 15-05-2025 15:20
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196593)
Also, the government should restore 3rd child allowance as incentive to make more babies.
Fine but small impact really.

Need to tackle housing and childcare costs. That's a much bigger limitation.

Sephiroth 15-05-2025 15:28
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36196595)
Fine but small impact really.

Need to tackle housing and childcare costs. That's a much bigger limitation.
Understood (particularly the economic value of childcare) - but if the ratio of working age people to retired people is the underlying economic problem, then encouraging more babies is a must - and that's a long term project.

Damien 15-05-2025 15:38
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196596)
Understood (particularly the economic value of childcare) - but if the ratio of working age people to retired people is the underlying economic problem, then encouraging more babies is a must - and that's a long term project.
No it is, but housing is one of the biggest reasons people are having fewer children later.

In the 1970s/1980s, the average age to buy your first home was around 23. Now it's 33-24.

People are less inclined to start families until they're more settled.

Sephiroth 15-05-2025 15:43
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36196597)
No it is, but housing is one of the biggest reasons people are having fewer children later.

In the 1970s/1980s, the average age to buy your first home was around 23. Now it's 33-24.

People are less inclined to start families until they're more settled.
Valid point.

Paul 15-05-2025 18:24
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196593)
Also, the government should restore 3rd child allowance as incentive to make more babies.
Not much use if there isnt any work for them to do, they just become a burden at a much younger age.

---------- Post added at 18:24 ---------- Previous post was at 18:17 ----------

Good news for Starmer ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgv99e10kzo

Quote:
The UK economy grew by 0.7% at the start of this year.
Slightly more than expected.

Damien 15-05-2025 20:20
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
It's better than expected growth and probably means the budget didn't damage the economy as much as was claimed but it's worth waiting until the next quarter when Trump's tariffs hit.

Sephiroth 15-05-2025 20:31
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36196635)
It's better than expected growth and probably means the budget didn't damage the economy as much as was claimed but it's worth waiting until the next quarter when Trump's tariffs hit.
Or was it late quarter economic activity to beat Trump's tariffs and the kicking in of Reeves' budget? And thus a one-off?

Damien 15-05-2025 20:34
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196639)
Or was it late quarter economic activity to beat Trump's tariffs and the kicking in of Reeves' budget? And thus a one-off?
I think it might to beat Trump's tariffs yeah. I don't think it would be to beat Reeves budget because the main thing would be the cost of employed staff so little advantage is trying to beat it a few months early.

OLD BOY 16-05-2025 14:21
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36196593)
Also, the government should restore 3rd child allowance as incentive to make more babies.
No need. We have high levels of immigration now, which should more than replenish the deficiency.

1andrew1 16-05-2025 14:24
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36196666)
No need. We have high levels of immigration now, which should more than replenish the deficiency.
How much is a high level?

Bad news for Starmer:
Quote:
Sir Keir Starmer’s popularity has slumped to its lowest level on record with the fall most acute among Labour voters, according to YouGov research that will stoke concerns in Downing Street.

The proportion of Labour voters with a favourable view of the UK prime minister has plunged from 62 per cent to 45 per cent in just one month, the polling company found. It is the first time that Starmer has recorded a net negative approval rating among Labour supporters.

Some Labour MPs fear that Starmer’s shift to the right on several policy issues, in an attempt to neutralise the threat from Reform UK, has alienated many of the party’s natural supporters.
https://www.ft.com/content/659406e7-...0-0adebb5ad838

OLD BOY 16-05-2025 17:28
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36196667)
How much is a high level?
You mean you don’t know, Andrew? You’re slipping, mate.

Russ 16-05-2025 20:03
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
I’ll believe it when I see it but an unsurprising u-turn is likely on the cards….

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/po...6n3j5QAZijfBg#

nomadking 16-05-2025 20:19
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36196687)
I’ll believe it when I see it but an unsurprising u-turn is likely on the cards….

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/po...6n3j5QAZijfBg#
Quote:
However, it is reported that Labour are now considering increasing the £11,500 income threshold over which pensioners are no longer eligible for the allowance, in order to bring more people into the benefit’s net.
Sounds like they are thinking of raising the Pension Credit income threshold to at or above the State Pension. It would still be means-tested, but would bring additional financial help to more people.
Link
Quote:
If you get Pension Credit you can also get other help, such as:
Housing Benefit if you rent the property you live in
Winter Fuel Payment
Support for Mortgage Interest if you own the property you live in
a Council Tax discount
a free TV licence if you’re aged 75 or over
help with NHS dental treatment, glasses and transport costs for hospital appointments, if you get a certain type of Pension Credit
help with your heating costs through the Warm Home Discount Scheme
a discount on the Royal Mail redirection service if you’re moving house

Paul 16-05-2025 21:02
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
So not a U Turn as such, but changing the rules, to have a similar effect, and probably cost them more than they saved .....

papa smurf 16-05-2025 21:07
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
A few crumbs from the top table isn't going to save him

Damien 16-05-2025 21:22
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
It's a U-Turn just structured in a way they can claim it isn't. Complete stupidity on this policy. I've said it before, for this hassle, they might as well have abolished the link to earnings part of the triple lock.

nomadking 16-05-2025 22:35
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
They're pursuing too many quick fixes without thinking them through. Too many Yes Men without having a "Tenth Man".
Link
Quote:
The Tenth Man Rule suggests that, if nine people in a group of ten agree on an issue, the tenth member must take a contrarian viewpoint and assume the other nine are wrong.

1andrew1 16-05-2025 23:56
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36196673)
You mean you don’t know, Andrew? You’re slipping, mate.
Possibly, Old Boy, possibly.

But what are your definitions of high levels of immigration? And acceptable levels?

Sephiroth 17-05-2025 09:20
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36196687)
I’ll believe it when I see it but an unsurprising u-turn is likely on the cards….

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/po...6n3j5QAZijfBg#
The link is about the winter fuel payment possible u-turn.

This is a purely political move (if it happens) and, if the government is to balance its fiscal books, the u-turn will need to be offset by a tax grab elsewhere. There's 'owt for nowt in this game.

papa smurf 17-05-2025 15:45
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Iranian men charged with spying offences in UK were asylum seekers who arrived by small boats and lorry

https://news.sky.com/story/three-ira...olice-13369333

where are the checks? spies coming here and claiming asylum, labour are pants at border control

Sephiroth 17-05-2025 16:03
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36196711)
Iranian men charged with spying offences in UK were asylum seekers who arrived by small boats and lorry

https://news.sky.com/story/three-ira...olice-13369333

where are the checks? spies coming here and claiming asylum, labour are pants at border control
This is just what I and just a few others here have had the nous to say: they are here already and our governments have seriously failed us. To my mind, this is a national emergency which requires special action - meaning the rapid removal to one of our remote possessions of all males of fighting age. Something like that.

Paul 17-05-2025 16:15
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36196711)
where are the checks?
What checks exactly ?

"Hello, are you a spy ?"
"No."
"Ok, carry on."

....

papa smurf 17-05-2025 16:17
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36196713)
What checks exactly ?

"Hello, are you a spy ?"
"No."
"Ok, carry on."

....
I doubt they even get that

Hugh 17-05-2025 16:41
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36196713)
What checks exactly ?

"Hello, are you a spy ?"
"No."
"Ok, carry on."

....

Perhaps they should use the one on the USA ESTA form… ;)

Quote:
Do you seek to engage in or have you ever engaged in terrorist activities, espionage, sabotage, or genocide?

---------- Post added at 16:41 ---------- Previous post was at 16:32 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36196711)
Iranian men charged with spying offences in UK were asylum seekers who arrived by small boats and lorry

https://news.sky.com/story/three-ira...olice-13369333

where are the checks? spies coming here and claiming asylum, labour are pants at border control
They arrived
Quote:
between 2016 and 2022. Mr Sepahvand arrived in 2016 concealed in a lorry.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c04eze3wv5go

thenry 17-05-2025 16:50
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
What do they spy on with so much transparency out there :confused:

Hugh 17-05-2025 17:16
Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenry (Post 36196717)
What do they spy on with so much transparency out there :confused:
From a previous link in this thread

Quote:
They are accused of targeting individual journalists working for Iran International, an independent media organisation based in London…

…Mr Sepahvand, of St John's Wood, London is also charged with engaging in surveillance, reconnaissance and open-source research with the intention of committing serious violence against a person in the UK.

Mr Manesh, of Kensal Rise, London and Mr Noori, of Ealing, London are also charged with engaging in surveillance and reconnaissance with the intention that serious violence against a person in the UK would be committed by others.


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