Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Uncanny!

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

The story so far
- the Met don’t investigate Covid crimes retrospectively
- the Met believe there is insufficient evidence to investigate
- the Met says we’ll see what comes of Gray inquiry
- Gray inquiry found evidence so the Met says we’ll investigate
- the Met says they do not object to Gray publishing her report in full
- the Met says they don’t want Gray inquiry to publish evidence as it’ll prejudice their investigation

What happens next
- the Met says the investigation is proving more complex than they originally anticipated so they don't expect to complete it for several months
- after a suitable period of time, the Met says the evidence they’ve found doesn’t meet the level necessary for prosecution/fines
- the Government says since no breach has been committed there’s no need to publish Sue Gray’s report
- the Government says "national security" means they can't tell you what happened or what, if anything, they’re going to do about it

h/t @pauldavisITV and others

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

all nicely sorted then, and people can get back to planning their summer holidays . . . . until the next Covid variant comes along ;)

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Thank you, Michael Fabricant... ;)

My holidays are already (mostly) booked - 4 days in the Algarve in March, 11 days in North Cyprus in May, 7 days in North Cyprus in September, just got to find somewhere for 10 days in July (those are all the times we have the pooch booked into kennels). :D

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

I just had to google that geezer, what a fine looking specimen he is, although to be fair the only thing I could find that we *may* have in common is on his wiki page . . .

:D

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Planned and booked, a while ago (May, Tenerife :Sun:)

:D

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

This is turning into an episode of "The Thick Of It"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60177028

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

I wish they'd give it a rest, it's becoming seriously boring now imo.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

+1

If he was going to go, he’d have gone by now.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

It is only about FPN's

https://news.met.police.uk/news/the-...igation-441503

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

If FPNs are issued, does that mean all the guidelines weren’t observed and the COVID rules were, in fact, broken?

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

One would assume so

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

If FPNs are not issued, some serious questions about policing need to be asked.

Compare with https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-55560814

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Whats happened to the poll on this thread? Has it been withdrawn as Labour were winning? :D:D

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Maybe the Met asked them to take it down

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

If is only about a FPN, If the Prime Minister had been caught speeding, would we expect him to resign?

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

None of your business. Last time I looked, Labour was winning by 1 or two votes. Very much in the margin of error for polling. What the poll showed, CF’ers voting showed Conservatives and Labour on equal footing.

Hardly a ringing endorsement for Labour by CF’ers, neither exciting results for them given all the problems going on with the Tories right now.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

No, but if he had lied to the House about it, that’s a different matter…

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

I just don't think you're meeting the standards of the British Polling Council i.e. binning the poll when you don't like the way it's going ! ;)

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

I liked the way it was going. i.e Labour had literally no run-away lead, despite everything going on with Boris, CF’s verdict is clear, that’s a disaster for Starmer.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Yeah, I'm sure you're right that Sir Keir is gutted that he's only slightly winning in a poll of 20 ageing right leaning cable boffins. A representative sample of the Country. He might as well quit now ! :p:

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

But that’s the whole thing, as I alluded to earlier.

Can you prove he lied deliberately or was just mistaken?

And as my previous post lays out, there’s no parliamentary procedure to kick him out even if he did lie, let alone if he was found to be mistaken.

The problem now is, with keeping the story bubbling along this long, that it is losing its impact. If it isn’t resolved in a few days we’re all just going to lose interest in it.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

I think he should.

Westminster voting intention:

LAB: 39% (-2)
CON: 34% (+3)
LDEM: 9% (-)
GRN: 5% (-1)

via @OpiniumResearch

Dear dear, Labour losing ground despite the Media scrum of partygate.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

You missed this one Mick:-
Best to look at all polls/predictions, not just the ones you like? Or quash the ones you created because you don't like the outcome?
Tbh even the ones you like the Tories are losing....

Boris clinging on is the greatest gift the opposition could ever have.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Stop being so petulant.

Didn’t I say a few posts ago, I loved the way the poll was going, for showing how crap Labour is, that as bad as it’s been for the Tories, there are still many many people, who still can’t stomach voting for them still.

For the poll you keep bleating on about, Labour was struggling to race ahead of the Tories. Why would I delete such a disastrous poll for Labour? Ha ha.

I deleted the poll because I was going to commence another one, like I did the week before, but I got side tracked, then couldn’t be arsed starting another.

I also just posted a very recent poll, from last hour, showing Labour’s poll lead halving, yes HALVING compared to one taken in two weeks.

Lastly-Enough about now deleted poll.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Labour has been so truly awful for so long, I think we’ve forgotten what a mid-term poll is supposed to look like. Governments aren’t supposed to do well at this point. The opposition is. None of which should detract from the fact that the Tories are having an absolute nightmare right now. Clearly they are. But the poll numbers we’re seeing today just aren’t going to be the ones we go into the next election with.

Tory MPs are ruthless. They don’t hang on to failing leaders, they defenestrate them, and they find a way to do so even on occasions when their own party rules make it difficult (c.f. Ian Duncan Smith, who remained popular with the grass roots even as he was increasingly despised by the parliamentary party). It is simply a matter of timing now. Boris will cling on only as long as his backbenchers calculate it is advantageous for him to draw flak that will then be less likely to tarnish his successor.

I have long believed that his number will be up this summer; on occasions over the last 3 weeks I’ve wondered if it might be sooner but I think my base prediction is still summertime. If they get a new leader in place for the end of the summer recess, and if the covid situation improves and fuel bills start to come down a bit, then those poll figures will even out a bit.

Labour’s big underlying problem is its long-term loss of more than 40 Scottish seats. The Tories don’t have to stage much of a poll recovery for that to come back and haunt Starmer and whoever succeeds him. And with his Scottish party still paralysed by its inability to work out how to get its seats back from the Nats, it may well haunt the leader after that too.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

It doesn't help that this mid-term polling slump was entirely self-inflicted and needless. This isn't a polling slump as a result of some unpopular policies they needed to get out of the way and whose benefit would pay off ahead of an election.

Theoretically, the hard part of this Government's term is yet to come with a cost of living crisis, tax rises and an NHS which is going to struggle to cope with the backload of cases caused by COVID. Partygate and the issue of Owen Paterson completely spent all the goodwill the Government had as a result of their handling of vaccine rollout.

The Tories will recover in the polling as the scandal fades from the headlines but these things have a cumulative effect slowly eroding the trust and faith their voters will have them. Further scandals will hit harder and harder and they'll struggle to reset the narrative of 'one rule for us, another for them'.

The other thing is they don't have Corbyn to contrast against anymore. Starmer is a bit 'meh' but he isn't hated. He isn't going to scare voters away.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

He is innocent until proven guilty. Well presumed innocent anyway.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Ordinarily yes, but the evidence isn't normally freely available for everyone to form a conclusion.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

The ‘evidence’ is the allegations. And allegations are not evidence by themselves.

We all agree it’s a bad look. But waiting for the Gray report and police investigation before forming an opinion seems a sensible way forward.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

The report is out: https://assets.publishing.service.go...s_-_Update.pdf

Nothingburger, completely gutted of any content.

Does find a 'failure of leadership' and it turns out the police are investigating 12 parties but reckon Johnson will be happy with that.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Reading more of it it does seem pretty bad given what she could actually report on.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

As others have pointed out the meeting in Johnson's flat which he said didn't happen is being investigated by the police.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

I really don’t know what people were expecting from what we already knew.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Very disappointing i was hoping the recipe for the alleged cake would be published.
the question now is how much longer will this none story be on the front pages.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

a non story the PM is under police investigation we all know you never say that if it was a labour pm under police investigation

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Yup, Johnson pretending he is there to sort out what happened in No 10 as if it was nothing to do with him.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

It's the '4 Stages' from Yes Minister all over again - and that joke is 36 years old!

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

His own party seem to have the worst words for him today. May and Andrew Mitchell laying into him.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Blackford chucked out.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-gray-video-VN

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

The prime minister's key message today is that we wait to read the full report, the full details of which he will not commit to publishing...

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Quite a few MPs today have mentioned criminal investigation including Starmer. Would that be an investigation into perverting the course of justice? Breaking the Covid rules is surely civil. And if criminal, it must be proved beyond reasonable doubt so needs some evidence like a Johnson email I guess?

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

No, I think it's criminal just with a really low consequence.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

I have to confess when starmer started speaking i nodded off.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Seriously??

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...083bd5311948e6

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

It is not criminal. If a person was caught breaching the Covid rules, they were issued with a Fixed Penalty Notice, that once paid, the recipient waived any criminal liability and no criminal record.

The problem now for the Police, is that there is a statute of limitations of 6 months on such breaches. So if they see any breaches now that happened over 6 months ago, the police have no legal authority to sanction as per the Coronavirus Act.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

I think it is still a criminal offence isn't it? That's why the police are the ones to issue it. It's not like a parking ticket.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Road traffic offences are a special class of criminal offence which don’t ordinarily (except at the most serious end) result in what’s commonly understood as a “criminal record”. And a parking ticket issued by a police officer or a traffic warden does sit in that category, except in places where traffic offences have been decriminalised in bye laws passed by a local council. At that point traffic regulation becomes a matter for council employees (or their agents).

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

It only becomes a criminal offence if you refuse to pay the fine, paying the fine waives the criminal liability aspect of it, the Crown Prosecution Service has the power to charge you with a criminal offence for breaching Coronavirus Act and drag you off to court, if the fine isn’t paid.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Hands up who really wants to see the 300 photos?

If there isn't at least one photo of a sweaty Boris Johnson, shirt half unbuttoned with his tie around his head, I will be very disappointed...

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

This has made my day, ban him until he withdraws the comment.


I mean, Dennis Skinner once said "half the politicians opposite are crooks", was told to withdraw the comment. He said "I apologise, I meant half the politician opposite are not crooks"



He makes me swear STFU and want to throw something at the TV.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Not for COVID breaches, I believe.

https://www.libertyhumanrights.org.u...%20regulations.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

The Metropolitan Police has said that it will not name any individuals but will just reveal the total number of fines issued.



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...val-court.html

Number 10 said it would be a matter for Scotland Yard to decide whether to name any individuals who are hit with fixed penalty notices in the Partygate investigation – but police guidelines state they would not routinely be identified.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

It's the way trivial matters of minor law breaking are dealt with.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Strange - you previously posted that this sort of offence was a resigning/stepping down matter…

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

I'm sure that will be fine by Johnson. :D

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

It’s both really. Anything that can be dealt with via a FPN is trivial in the grand scheme of criminality. Yet at the same time what it represents when it’s done by the leaders who set the rules at a time of national crisis, is politically far more significant. Nonetheless it’s not up to the polis to release information based on perceived political significance. The usual anonymous sources will take care of that.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

If you walk out of the front door of the court it's trivia, if you leave by the back door it's a miscarriage of justice;)

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Another day, another u-turn.
https://news.sky.com/story/downing-s...ation-12530285

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Johnson's attendance at two more parties leaked.

https://news.sky.com/story/boris-joh...rties-12530611

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...nuary-lockdown

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

The one in the flat is another he has specifically denied right?

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

I think the denial in question may have been vague enough to get him off the hook for lying.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Taken from the Wiki page of a certain Tory MP Tobias Ellwood.



Obviously part of the problems he's trying to eradicate . . . should resign immediately :D

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1643798116

Attachment 29598

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Roll on PMQs! How many times will Johnson be asked to resign? How many times will he waffle on about vaccine roll-out, delivering Brexit?

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

I know, it's all very Ground Hog Day. Should really be called Prime Ministers Evasions.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

It's been like groundhog day ever since Cummings was thrown under the bus for coming out with those ridiculous and pathetically unbelievable (by many on here) excuses for the Barnard Castle, eye test, covid fiasco.

How on earth the police can reduce knife (in the back) crime when it's rampant in the Government is beyond me ;)

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

PMQ's interesting already, Lindsay Hoyle explaining you can't call someone out for lying as we know. Music to bojos ears and should put a spring in his step.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Did he deny doing it, and said repeatedly he had not broken the law or not followed the guidelines?

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

No idea Hugh, but a party during lockdown - especially after stating the rules should be followed - is still a party during lockdown . . . right?

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

It's a Conservative party. ;)

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Absolutely right!

However, lying about it repeatedly and publicly, both in and outside of the House of Commons, does make it a bit more serious.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Yes you're probably correct, however an MP publicly calling for the head of his boss for something he himself has previously been guilty of strikes me as just a little hypocritical . . not to mention placing his arse in a position where it could get bitten . . . if the media got off their arses and questioned it*




* like that's gonna happen

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

I think the issue is now more about the lying.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Which is basically a standard requisite for an MP of any party . . but to be fair, although lying is commonplace it's getting caught at it that seemingly annoys folk ;)

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

more about one rule for us and no rules for them still Andrew we all know he biggest liar in the country by far

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Not quite. Labour’s Prime Minister, Tony Blair lying about WMD sending many troops unnecessarily to their deaths, and your bothered about a few fecking parties.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Blair went mid-term and handed over the keys to his successor. The same will happen to Johnson. Chris's prediction that it will happen in the summer looks increasingly more and more likely.

Both Iraq and Johnson's double standards have cut through and won't be forgotten by the electorate.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Why can't you be bothered about both?

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Perhaps none of the "parties" contributed to the death of anyone?

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

About 25 seconds in…

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Did he have a Colin hidden in there?

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Because quite frankly, they’re just parties, and he said Boris was the biggest liar. I think any Prime Minister which lied to get us in to an illegal war that cost many many lives, is the biggest liar of them all, but this is Labour after all.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

It was a working party. :D

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Right, if that's the defence I fear the country could be heading towards a massive shortage of piss, due to the government taking it all. Just because bliar didn't end up in The Hague doesn't mean bozo gets a free pass besides which it could be argued their behaviour led to the population breaking the rules enmasse which did lead to deaths, many of them.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

It’s about getting things into proportion.

---------- Post added at 19:14 ---------- Previous post was at 19:09 ----------

In my experience, people were breaking the rules well before we got to hear about the (ahem) parties.

You cannot seriously conflate lies about holding parties (if that is proved) with lies that directly led to many deaths in an invasion. Unless, of course, the person making such claims lacks a sense of proportion.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

If 'not as bad as an illegal war' is the standard you want to set for politicians then fine, just be consistent when it comes to others.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

I doubt that is what OB is saying.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Quite right, pip, but everything gets twisted on here.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

No need to be worried about Blair these days - he's not in power. Like others who came before him, he was rightly held to account at the time.

We need to focus on the present.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Wish someone would tell him that ;)

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

Think it's called 'whataboutery' Andrew and conveniently ignores the fact the Conservative leader and party were fully behind the war at the time. The main opposition came from within the Labour Party...

Anyway what about that terrible tory Ted Heath taking us into the EEC? What a rotter ! Or Neville Chamberlain signing a pact with Hitler...

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

:clap:

---------- Post added at 21:28 ---------- Previous post was at 21:22 ----------

At the end of the day it's about how trustworthy our PM is? As time has gone by since the flatgate decoration farce it's becoming harder and harder place to any trust in what the man says or claims.

It's not going to make his position in dealing with any other world leaders any more tenable.

Re: All those No.10 lockdown parties
 

That has nothing to do with the question you asked. I do not advocate for a free pass for Boris but I can tell the difference about lying about a party which harmed no-one and lying about something which got people killed.

Pity you can't differentiate.