Re: The energy crisis
 

Yes, Boris had his faults and I’m not denying that. But there are other more important issues at hand, which the energy crisis issue clearly demonstrates.

Re: The energy crisis
 

<removed>

Enough of this, get back to the topic.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Will people please stop linking to paywalled articles.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Might actually explain our inaction and incentivise us to do less. If we lack the will/resource to meaningfully change the market and being much smaller (in terms of generation and purchasing power) then any minimal interventions might be more useful after the EU have skewed the market.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Non-paywalled link
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www....f-26109d79db89

Re: The energy crisis
 

That is really interesting because when I linked it it was not paywalled. Do you for one minute think I sub to the FT?

---------- Post added at 18:21 ---------- Previous post was at 18:20 ----------

I think one of my browsers did that for me automatically and did not realise somehow

Re: The energy crisis
 

You just have to copy and paste the title onto a Google search. Often, the best articles are paywalled, so it would be a shame for CF members to be deprived of this information for that reason.

There is far too much reliance on social media demonstrated by some members - this might help to bring a bit of balance, IMHO.

I can’t copy it for you as unfortunately it’s against the T&Cs and their copyright policy.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The poster can do that, not expect the reader to do so.
If I'm reading this topic, I do not expect to have to search for a linked article becasue its behind a paywall, and neither should any other member.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Yep! If that happens I can't be arsed to bother finding a work around so it's a pointless link.

Re: The energy crisis
 

This has now got very serious...

https://www.theguardian.com/business...-bills-support

Re: The energy crisis
 

It's not just pubs, this will hit all kinds of retailers, restaurants etc that can't afford to heat & light their businesses.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Exactly as unless something radical is done soon the the predicted scenario where energy price rises of up to 400% plus for businesses especially smaller ones is frightening.


A lot of small businesses, pubs, restaurants, etc, etc will in all likelihood have to close their doors.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Meanwhile…

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/4...68786c176e6829

https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www....tour-j9c693r32

Re: The energy crisis
 

from the Times article.

That has nothing (or very little) to do with government policy. The vast increase in % gigabit broadband available in the UK is mainly to with VM upgrading it's HFC to gigabit capability.

The question to be asked is how many have access to fibre broadband. Although increasing is still woefully behind other countries.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Really? Do you have any evidence VM is reponsible for the "vast increase in % gigabit broadband available in the UK is mainly to with VM"?

Re: The energy crisis
 

A piece of good news, albeit a small piece.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...energy-markets

Re: The energy crisis
 

I think it’d take a creative interpretation of the upward trajectory of the gigabit capable figure compared with the HFC upgrades to see it any other way. It certainly outstripped the contribution of FTTP. Indeed, if you take HFC out the 70% figure basically halves, and there will be FTTP overbuild by others in HFC areas. Virgin also make a reasonable contribution to FTTP growth.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Well 15.5 million homes have access to VM now, thats a sizeable chunk (56% )of the total UK homes (27.8 million), so it seems pretty reasonable to say a huge chunk of the increase is due to VM. There are 8 million homes with FTTP, but its not clear how many of those (like me) actually have access to both.

Re: The energy crisis
 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...this%20upgrade.

the map shows the highest concentration of gigabit broadband which correlates directly with Virgin Media cabled areas.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk...-1860x1395.png

Re: The energy crisis
 

forgot what thread I was reading for a minute. Got mixed up thinking it was a VM thread

Re: The energy crisis
 

A lot can happen in 18 months. Not saying its no longer true but perhaps not as high a percentage for VM especially in rural areas.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Excuse my naivety but was there somehow a link between VMs gigabit roll out and the energy crisis I missed somewhere?

Re: The energy crisis
 

You have to go back to Post #1113.

That said, lets get back to the topic at hand.

Re: The energy crisis
 

On a brighter note:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-62731923

Unfortunately the price of elecrictity is tied to the price of gas ATM so can't see it making much difference.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Have you been to Hornsea? It's always blowing a gale ! Thank God the hell hole is good something. Nearly as bad as Cleethorpes ;)

Re: The energy crisis
 

If it is always blowing a gale then it is the best place for a windfarm surely.
A bigger one at Dogger Bank due to come online next year as outlined in the link.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Shame we can't use all the hot air coming out of parliament. With a bit of care we could generate electricity and put a bit of extra heat in. Too much and they will doze off, especially their lordships. Or do we syphon it off to heat other buildings, clear the roads and chill the commons to generate more heat. Could almost be a perpetual motion machine. Feed in an edited selection of news, appropriate public statistics and get nice clean energy out. (Of course there is the other waste that comes out too that needs dealing with!)

Re: The energy crisis
 

Good plan from OVO: https://www.ovoenergy.com/ovo-newsro...ten-point-plan

Re: The energy crisis
 

Taking from the rich to give to the poor? Won't go down well in Toryland . Robin of Sherwood would approve though.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Octopus make it clear they do not want the cap to rise next month

Re: The energy crisis
 

No one is forcing them to put their prices up

Re: The energy crisis
 

Probably the threat of bankruptcy if they don’t is focusing their mind - buying high selling at a loss is not a recipe for continuity…

Re: The energy crisis
 

Despite your largely pointless quips, this is one where I was thinking the same.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Point is the price cap does exactly that because the business without support would no longer be in business. I believe a number of suppliers went to the government with a package that would freeze prices but it was rejected

Re: The energy crisis
 

The area that seems not to be getting the coverage it needs is the business sector. We have businesses folding now due to energy shocks. This will increase manifold as we go into Winter and Spring. When businesses comes to the end of their current contracts, they have to go back to the market where there is no price cap, they have to pay the market rate their broker can get for them.

There are reports of 1 in 7 pubs could close this Winter. Other higher energy use businesses also face major problems e.g. Fish and chip shops, Dry Cleaners, etc. This is happening now and this Government is AWOL. Frightening ..

Re: The energy crisis
 

If the chippies close, the Govt will fall for sure. Bad potato harvest this year too.

Re: The energy crisis
 

3chippies near me gone, it's all kebabs n pizza now.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I was wrong, it is not 1 in 7 pubs that expect to close without financial help, it is 7 out of 10

Three quarters of pubs facing extinction

Re: The energy crisis
 

Except that it has been reported that help is coming for businesses.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Between now and then they can pay the bills with entrepreneurial spirit :rofl:

I have to say OB I admire how passive you are being, considering every business was on the verge of collapsing if there was even a two or three week delay in easing Covid restrictions.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Two weeks will make no difference, and most bills are monthly anyway.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I think you forget that measures are already in place to take account of the last increase to the price cap currently in force, although I accept that this was for households rather than businesses.

The next increase is not due until October, and so it is not as urgent as you like to make out. In the next batch of measures, businesses we be given substantial help.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Do businesses need to buy a Boris kettle too after his words of advice today?

https://youtu.be/to7Wf_gW-lA

Re: The energy crisis
 

Who is going to pay for the help? Would the magic money tree be involved? Dizzy Lizzy has also got to pay for her bribed tax cuts for the Tory faithful. Should we just borrow again and let the woke millennials deal with it?

Re: The energy crisis
 

That's a creative way to say there's no support for businesses, and there might not be either!

Re: The energy crisis
 

Well someone has to pay for support otherwise people will die or be destitute or bankrupt. Ideally the producers would be shouting here take our money we have loads at the minute but that will not happen in the amounts needed

Re: The energy crisis
 

Oh I expect it will make no difference, mainly because I expect the support (if any) to be wholly inadequate. Loans upon loans with no customers anyway they might as well shut.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Indeed, there will be no real assistance other than “have some more debt”.

Re: The energy crisis
 

You would consider anything the government provides "inadequate" simply because they are conservative.

Still, i'll bite anyway, tell us what you consider is 'adequate', and how its going to be paid for.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Considering the exhaustive list of things Truss has ruled out it’s difficult to see how anything adequate is left over.

The obvious answer is it’s paid for the same way we pay for anything - more debt. No government of any colour for the last 40 years has meaningfully made any impact on the national debt, and none for the next 40 will tackle it either. The pretence that £2trn is sustainable but £2.5trn isn’t (figures vary over time) is just a myth to keep the proles in their place with their housekeeping economics.

FWIW I don’t think Starmer has any answers either.

Re: The energy crisis
 

That isnt what I asked though, my question was what do you consider adequate ?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Intervention to make energy affordable for consumers and businesses. And yes, I recognise in the short term this does mean subsidies until we can increase and take control of our own production.

We’ve been hearing for months about how we need to suppress wages to prevent an inflation spiral. Nobody seems that bothered about the impact energy costs have in driving the same spiral - and consumer confidence down in the process.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I think, as Chris has attested to in previous posts is, that for various policy driven issues the price for energy in the U.K. is artificially high.

There are things we could do, if we really wanted to.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The Government is going to have to underwrite the wholesale cost and pay it back over the decades to come. There isn't any realistic short-term alternative that I can see.

Re: The energy crisis
 

A solution has been put forward by the energy industry itself that the unit cost of gas and electricity could remain as it is, with the deficiency covered by a loan which will be paid back when costs fall back below that level.

Yes, debt is involved, but consumers pay it back when the market starts getting back to normal.

Businesses are also to be helped through measures such as reducing business rates.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I doubt that will work on its own as in most cases, business rates are far less than the hike in energy costs.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Charity premises also don’t pay business rates, yet they provide an essential service in our high streets and are facing the same steep rises in energy bills.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Never fear, Chancellor OB will go back to the drawing board and think of another cunning plan....

Re: The energy crisis
 

Or, and hear me out on this, share the load between consumers and business?

When the market "gets back to normal", the energy suppliers make a bit less profit, and also (as well as consumers) pay back the Government, otherwise, it just seems that they never share any of the downsides, only take profits…

Re: The energy crisis
 

The fact the current PM stood up and said buying a new kettle could save £10 a year doesn’t fill me with confidence that the Government grasp the problem, and considering after a round of musical chairs it’ll be roughly the same people with the same ideology it’s hard to see how they address problems that will add up to thousands for households and tens of thousands for businesses.

Re: The energy crisis
 

someone who has never really struggled will never understand what it is like to really struggle. I have struggled yet still survived relatively comfortably compared to others. We live in a world where there is enough wealth to feed and house everyone everywhere but we do not. We are a horrible species who in its current form does not deserve to survive

Agent Smith had it right when he said these words "You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus."

Re: The energy crisis
 

I don't envy the creative team behind the Christmas John Lewis advert, if they decide to run one this year. Certainly a kettle can't feature.

Re: The energy crisis
 

It's happened here over the past few years. Outlets with huge mark-ups and poor quality (even those which are franchises of top brands).

---------- Post added at 17:07 ---------- Previous post was at 17:02 ----------

One of our local Chinese takeaways increased their prices for counter customers, but held off putting up prices for home delivery as people would be relying on 7-month-old menus.

But now when you call to order, you get a robot telling you that "All menu prices have increased. A 15% surcharge will be added to your final bill total. Please hold if you still wish to order".

Re: The energy crisis
 

So Gazprom close Gas pipeline to Germany for maintenance and find an "oil leak" so it is closed indefinitely. Up goes the price of gas again and next years caps likely with it. Putin has us by the balls in his long game imo. Said it before we have to break the gas and electric tie

Re: The energy crisis
 

This is in the window of one of our local shops.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1662198570

Re: The energy crisis
 

suppliers really should be ashamed of themselves. Trying to exploit businesses this way

Re: The energy crisis
 

Another unforeseen impact of the Energy crisis - voluntary organisations are being hit heavily as well.

I am a member of our local War Memorial Association, and I received this email today - for context, the person undertaking the Secretary role is a 73 year old unpaid volunteer.

I have donated £50 (£62.50 with Gift Aid).

Re: The energy crisis
 

Don’t take your eye off the ball. The problem is the system, not the suppliers who are acting entirely rationally.

Re: The energy crisis
 

It is hardly rational to price a company out of business, unless they intend to do that to save energy for those paying less.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Unfortunately yes, charging the highest prices the market can bear (and there will be customers who can’t/won’t pay above that) is where unregulated capitalist markets go where there is no/limited competition.

While some customers leave the market (go out of business) this still gives the optimum return provided there are sufficient customers able/willing to pay.

Re: The energy crisis
 

appalling

Re: The energy crisis
 

I agree which is why regulation needs to be tighter, and the state should be more involved through that or ownership. Companies will not act in the wider public interest and there’s no competition to keep them honest.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Close the open market and open the mixed market economy

Re: The energy crisis
 

Germany putting in a lot of money to ease the energy crisis.

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2...-energy-crisis

Re: The energy crisis
 

And Sweden & Finland.

https://www.reuters.com/business/ene...ms-2022-09-04/

Re: The energy crisis
 

Two things I am certain of.

1. Whoever gets to be PM will pretty quickly announce more measures.

2. No matter what they are, everyone will moan and complain about them not being "enough".

Re: The energy crisis
 

Will she implement the Opposition's suggestions? It would be a good way to gain popularity with the UK electorate.

Link: 12ft.io/proxy?q=//www.ft.com/content/419e662b-0f5d-4ec3-b38e-00c30983b810

Re: The energy crisis
 

If this comes to pass I look forward to the mental gymnastics involved in backing the Tories for finding that magic money tree (again).

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...&postcount=934

Re: The energy crisis
 

More wool being pulled over peoples eyes and trying to get people on side by promising silly things that will never happen.

Re: The energy crisis
 

To be fair to Truss, she's not promised anything specific except an announcement on help in the first seven days of her term.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I don’t care, as long as the help is given…

Re: The energy crisis
 

I don't think it was never likely they would do nothing given the crisis that's to come tbh. I wonder if she'll go ahead with the tax cuts at the same time though?

Re: The energy crisis
 

Reversing the NI hike? I suspect it will. Truss seems to believe in trickle-down economics, a theory whose time many thought had gone.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Can always find the magic money tree for a tax cut or to protect the fake free market.

Re: The energy crisis
 

UK has already put in £37bn. Germans already pay more for their electricity and gas. Prior to this announcement, Germany had only spent 30bn Euros, which was less than the UK. Is their 1,000 Euros energy levy still going to go ahead? That would take the shine off the 65bn Euros.

Bear in mind it was Germany that played a large part in the price increases of a year ago, with their failed wind power.

Re: The energy crisis
 

An interesting chart. The UK is doing something wrong:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2022/09/3.jpg

Re: The energy crisis
 

Who was paying 65p per kWh in July 2022 ? Certainly not me.

Re: The energy crisis
 

Good point. I did some research and this article has more info:

https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/01/how-d...rope-17277277/

Re: The energy crisis
 

The data may be from a year ago, but it shows Germany paying the most for Electricity and Sweden paying the most for gas. It's each EU country plus the UK.

Link

---------- Post added at 20:57 ---------- Previous post was at 20:56 ----------

Basically using a made up system to compare.:rolleyes:

Re: The energy crisis
 

https://www.energypriceindex.com/

https://www.energypriceindex.com/price-data

Re: The energy crisis
 

1) Still contrived nonsense.
2) Capital cities only.
The higher costs are from gas, whether direct usage or for generating electricity. The price the markets charge for the gas, will not depend on which country is buying it. Although iirc, Malta has a fixed rate deal with Qatar, which is keeping prices down for them.
Government subsidies(eg France) should really be taken out, because they are just postponing the cost by using government borrowing. The underlying cost is still there to be paid back.

Re: The energy crisis
 

I’m sure the National Regulators in the 33 countries who have agreed this measure will take your comments into consideration...

Re: The energy crisis
 

Anything that disproves his viewpoint must be contrived.

I think whichever country we're talking about, we'll find subsidies to bring the costs down are either funded by government borrowing or by taxes on the energy companies.

Re: The energy crisis
 

The NI hike was to pay for Social Care/the NHS
. Guess those issues have totally been solved now? Or is bribing the public more important till the next health crisis, or when granny is out on the street?

Re: The energy crisis
 

First details of the Government plan to cap energy bills: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ls-below-2-000

Re: The energy crisis
 

I imagine most people's reactions will be along the lines of a sigh of relief followed by "Looks like a win-win for the energy companies".

Re: The energy crisis
 

I wont relax till I see it official and yeah you only need to see BP and Shells profits at the current price cap and the previous one hitting record highs let alone how high they are going to get next year. It is obscene

Re: The energy crisis
 

So no need for the £400 bill assistance?

Re: The energy crisis
 

that was to help with Aprils hike iirc

But if they cap it at now prices for 18 months I will not mind them keeping that

Re: The energy crisis
 

The £400 was this winter, reckon they'll scrap it.

Labour's plan also was to scrap this to pay for the freeze.