Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Indeed several EU countries did initially try and successfully procured vaccines, but this was then taken from them by the EU
https://qz.com/1968175/why-the-eu-ha...d-on-vaccines/

That worked out well for them.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I doubt they're on the dole, they're delivering multi drop or food most likely and probably finding it a lot more agreeable

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No, and the rules were clear before any of those countries joined and agreed to the rules.

Norway didn't join because of that. The UK did.
That's not true, it was a UK decision:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/special/p.../chapter.shtml
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...06/eu.politics

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Do you mean like all those other businesses that furloughed staff, and are still in business?

About your second question - my son used to work in hospitality, and a lot of his friends moved on to other jobs (in shops, offices, delivery drivers for supermarkets, etc.), and found they liked not being on zero hours contracts, working 9-5, knowing what your working hours were more than a week in advance, and have decided to stay out of hospitality.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Ironically, it was Tim Martin who suggested such workers get a job at Tesco whilst hospitality was closed. I don't disagree with his logic, though some have indeed found the grass is greener in retail and distribution compared to hospitality.

In terms of foreign hospitality workers, I think many EU nationals gave up their rented accommodation and returned to their home countries in the same way that Brits working in cities returned to their home towns. Some of these people have returned to UK hospitality but many have not and the sector is under-staffed at the moment.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Opt-outs are the British way and the correct way to work with Johnnie European. ;) We need to have a foot in the EU but not both feet.* :D
* Both feet being defined as Euro, Schengen and Vaccines programme

---------- Post added at 16:12 ---------- Previous post was at 15:30 ----------

I'm not sure Prtti Patel will be on Tim Martin's Christmas Card list! I suspect he may be having a few Bregrets. ;)
https://news.sky.com/story/home-secr...tries-12323141

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Given how hard you rake through the news looking for Brexit stories, it seems beyond credulity that you didn’t already see this today:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Our vaccine rollout is better than the EU's for one reason, they have to all fight for it and then decide who gets it first.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

. . . while also facing the dilemma of how much to send to other countries, like they 'demanded' we should do ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Would I let you down on posting a Brexit news story? Of course not! I posted that story yesterday! ;)
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=1076

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Errr - no you didn’t. Try actually reading it. Tim Martin says yesterday’s Telegraph article misrepresented him. Do keep up.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You got me on that, my skim-reading skills need improving!

I'm slightly sceptical of Tim Martin's correction though. If you've got an issue with the original article, would the first port of call not be the publication you gave the interview too, the Daily Telegraph? They should have a recording of the interview.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not really - if you’re as influential as Tim Martin, it’s easier and more effective to get rival publications to slag off whoever misquoted you, especially if some of those publications referenced the original article, because they have no primary evidence of the original interview and are more vulnerable to a defamation claim. The Telegraph isn’t going to print a retraction unless it has to, and by then the news cycle has moved on and nobody notices. The misquote story got fairly extensive broadcast coverage yesterday - arguably, more than the original story. Job done as far as Mr Spoons is concerned.

Defamation cases are long, expensive affairs. If you have sufficient influence, it is usually better to play the news media than to fight it.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Good news.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57347874

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Good news though I thought the USA was the UK's main trading partner outside the EU.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Probably main European trading partner outside the EU, as we know the EU isn’t Europe.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You’re reading the sentence backwards. The UK is Norway’s main trading partner, not vice versa.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The article clearly states Britain is Norway’s biggest trading partner.

So any reference to yankland is irrelevant.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I believe that Telegraph readers are clever enough to see through this framing for what it really is - breaking international law.
https://twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/statu...55456286294018

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

@FEMI = I have no relevance anymore whatsoever.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

My wife pre-ordered a limited edition "Best of" CD from FNAC in France, international postage included.

The money was taken from Paypal on the day of release.

2 weeks later it had not arrived here, so I emailed FNAC.

Their response was an immediate refund and an apology stating that they no longer export to the UK due to the problems caused by Brexit.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The idiot is on the Jeremy vine show ,championing stupidity and lost causes.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Where in the agreement does it say anything specific about chilled meat and even parcels?
As I've previously pointed out, it doesn't say anything specific, just that the details are up to the Joint Committee. GB and NI are in the SAME customs territory. That IS in the agreement, and as such there can't be different rules for GB and NI. WTO rules state that different customs rules=separate customs territories=full WTO tariffs between those territories(ie between GB & NI).
Why on earth are the EU objecting to parcels between GB and NI?:mad: The bigger food safety threat, is and always has been, from the EU, Eg Horse meat masquerading as Beef.

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------

What is meant to be the difference between exporting to the UK and any other non-EU country?:confused:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Is that Cummings chap still popping up on telly? :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Meh, not much of a trade war really is it? The June 1st deadline to align Northern Ireland with the EU single market for food has been there since day 1. The Telegraph probably needs to take this up with whatever numpty agreed to this being an issue in the first place...

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

As below, David Frost agreed to align NI with the EU for food with effect from this month. It's a kind of Yes Minister situation when he criticises his own agreement. :dunce::D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Where in the Protocol(ie this International agreement that people keep going on about) does it specify that? It doesn't as I've previously pointed out. Any difficulties are whatever the EU decides they are going to be, as part of the Joint Committee.
That is before you get into the fact that the Withdrawal Agreement as a whole(including Protocols) is only meant to be an interim measure. That is set out in the International Agreement that is the Lisbon Treaty(ie EUs own rules). A Protocol to an Agreement expires when the Agreement itself expires. The Protocol is not a separate and distinct Agreement.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Your first sentence is incorrect making any conclusions drawn from it inherently flawed. Sausages could not be sent to the EU six months ago as they are categorised as very high risk.

The grace period to permit such products into NI ended this month having been extended from 1 January. David Frost put his name to the very such agreement which he is now criticising.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/irel...orth-1.4417805

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It's not like the government didn't know this as we were part of the EU when the rules were written up in the first place. As soon as it was decided to leave the single market and abandon regulatory alignment, this was always going to happen. I'm not sure why the government is upset about this unless they thought they would be able to blag their way around single market rules.

If you leave the single market, that's what happens - leave means leave and all that.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Where in the EU rules does it say that they control movement of goods within a non-EU country or between non-EU countries? They don't even control movement of goods within the EU.

It's only when any goods are marketed etc inside the EU that they have a say. A business in the EU, can manufacture goods that don't meet EU rules, as long as they don't market them in the EU.

---------- Post added at 12:32 ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 ----------

And Leave means the EU can't tell us what we can and can't ship between GB and NI. This is NOT about trade with the EU, but the EU controlling trade within the UK.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think you must have forgotten that the UK agreed a separate arrangement to keep NI within many aspects of the European Single Market. This is to ensure there was no physical border between NI and RoI. Some have described it as a border in the Irish Sea.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The Protocol is part of the WA. The WA has ended.
The EU agreed to maintain the GB-NI customs union and single market.
There is NOTHING in the EU single market that says they can control goods within a non-EU state.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Why do you think David Frost is getting so worked up about a bit of paper he signed and is now regretting it? Just for the hell of it? Clearly not! He knows what he agreed to in the Northern Ireland protocol, even if you don't.
As a reminder, the grace period allowing imports of sausages and other chilled meats from Great Britain to Northern Ireland (they're usually required to be frozen when they enter the single market) is set to expire at the end of this month. That's a UK concern. EU concerns include Britain failing to implement basic parts of the new arrangements, including building and staffing border control posts for goods.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The ONLY thing in the NI Protocol is that many issues, including parcels from GB:rolleyes:, have to be agreed by the Joint Committee. Absolutely nothing in there about blocking movement of goods and items. If the EU decides to NOT come to an agreement on the various issues, then THEY are breaking the agreement.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Perhaps Biden can encourage both the UK and EU to resolve this dispute?
https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/bre...7-meet-8031462

---------- Post added at 14:02 ---------- Previous post was at 13:54 ----------

Because Brexit means Brexit?

---------- Post added at 14:04 ---------- Previous post was at 14:02 ----------

Totally wrong. Do you think David Frost and his EU counterparts are making this stuff up? That's one hell of a conspiracy theory.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Then surely your argument is with UK Gov for signing the deal? No one forced them

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Where's your source to evidence that the UK has tried and been refused veterinary equivalence whilst it has done so for other nations? This would be a solution and I hope we can do something like this.

As to the bigger picture, to quote Jonathan Powell, former chief of staff to Tony Blair, and uniquely well informed on Northern Ireland.
"Critics say that the Conservative government is winding up the loyalists with its hardball tactics. “There is a nexus between the loyalists and the Tory party,” Mr. Powell said. “The Tories are making Northern Ireland politics interesting in a way that we don’t want them to be, which is all about identity.”"
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/07/w...it-border.html

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

But, we did, so therefore your argument can't be with the EU? Seems to me this can be end in one of two ways

1. We agreed to these terms and we're now having to deal with the fall out.
2. The EU are breaking the terms of the treaty/agreement which is subject to international law?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Cable forum in meltdown over sausages shocker

get a bloody grip :rolleyes:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I have no intention of gripping your sausage thank you very much

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I was simply waving it, trying to fit in ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Well, apart from Article 7 of the Northern Ireland Protocol which states that goods placed on the market in Northern Ireland are covered by articles 34 and 36 of the Treaty for the Functioning of the European Union (Lisbon Treaty) These are the Single Market clauses.

Basically, goods entering Northern Ireland are entering the EU Single Market and are therefore covered by those rules.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Biden can hardly string a sentence together, so I doubt Boris will be that intimidated.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Compared to his predecessor, he's the Bard. ;)

---------- Post added at 15:46 ---------- Previous post was at 15:37 ----------

Nailed it.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

HMG’s strategy seems to be to portray the EU as obsessing over trivial rules and to win a PR war, regardless of what the agreement actually says. It won’t be difficult to achieve that within the UK - EU rules on sausages and chicken nuggets is precisely the sort of thing that got the tabloids in a froth time after time when we were in the EU. I suspect they’re also trying to trap any foreign leader who might be tempted to weigh in on EU’s side (I.e. Joe Biden, who shares that strange American proclivity for identifying with the country one of their distant ancestors came from). There’s a very clear attempt here to put the EU’s obsession with sausages on one side and the UK’s concern for peace and harmony in Ireland on the other. If the UK gov is successful at establishing that narrative it will be hard for the EU to get a decent sound bite out of Joe while he’s in Cornwall.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Or (putting tin foil hat on) could this be a case of 'hurr, hurr, hurr, look how fussy those foreign types are with their ridiculous food standards' as a softener for any old junk being sold here. If you are fussy about food standards, you're no better than a frenchman, etc.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think you're right. As a reporter in Brussels, Boris Johnson made his name with well-crafted stories on straight bananas that bent the truth. So he knows how to play the game well here.

Biden's interest in Ireland is entirely logical. There's plenty of Irish ancestry votes in the US to be tapped. And the Good Friday Agreement is seen as a key Democrat success so he will not want to see that achievement harmed.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

In which case, the UK strategy would appear crafted to try to capture Biden sound bites that can be spun as favouring the UK’s aim of peace and harmony in Irish supermarkets rather than the EU’s single market rules...

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

This is NOT about importing meat into the EU. It's about moving meat from GB to NI.

More than a bit hypocritical for the EU to complain about the possibility of meat from GB reaching the EU via NI when they insist on the possibility of EU meat(eg Horse meat) reaching GB directly or via NI.


---------- Post added at 18:00 ---------- Previous post was at 17:46 ----------

Where in the Protocol does it give specifics on any rules?
Link

The rules were NOT set out in the Protocol, they were yet to be determined by the Joint Committee.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You have to remember that the EU *is* its rules - nothing more and nothing less. For all the flag-waving and anthem tooting, it is still, for the time being at least, a supra-national organisation with no independent existence. There is a bureaucracy and a parliament but there is no autonomous government; only a council of the heads of government of its members. There is no constitution. There is no history, no alliances and no soft power by which it, in and of itself, may attempt to influence the world. It relies entirely on the influence of its most prominent members for that, and that influence is diminished in the world by the departure of one of those prominent members, which now actively negotiates and manoeuvres against it.

The bureaucrats in Brussels fuss over their sausage laws because that is all that defines them. It is unsurprising that they treat a challenge to the immutability of single market rules as an existential crisis. That’s precisely what it is.

They deserve a few microseconds of pity, before we ruthlessly exploit all the things we have, and they do not, to ensure the integrity of our own single market in preference to theirs.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I refer you to jonbxx's post
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=1150

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I don't see what the problem is, all I see is the EU attempting to prevent shops in a non EU country from selling a product made in a different non EU country.

What they really need to be doing is preventing EU shopkeepers from importing that product from the non EU country, and if that means an EU wide ban on English sausage, so be it :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It's about moving/transporting/exporting (pick the term you feel happiest with) meat into the European Single Market from outside that market.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Great, the EU can simply ban England selling any meat product to N.I. . . . problem solved.

Of course, we'd be obliged to stop importing from N.I. . . . Australia deal here we come ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

This Article 7?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That Article 7 quote was from the NI protocol.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So

Did we agree to it ? If we didn’t, why isn’t Boris et all threatening & moving forward with legal action ?

Don’t seem to be able to get an answer to this quite simple question

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No surprise you've not received an answer, but don't worry. No one in authority is disputing that we agreed to it. David Frost wrote in the FT "But because we are operating under the EU’s legal framework we have very limited discretion to operate the rules in a way which makes sense on the ground in Northern Ireland."

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So we did agree to this?

So that would mean the EU would be able to take the U.K. to court ?

Surely this hardly makes us look good in front of other potential trade partners if we reneg on our obligations

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Act in haste, repent at your leisure. Sign anything as long as the election is won.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57382239

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So, in summary, we signed a treaty to a self-imposed timescale, are now regretting it because it’s causing issues, and the suggestion is we abrogate the treaty?

Meanwhile, at the same time, we are rushing through trade treaties with future prospective partners - how will this look to them?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Wonder if those rushed treaties will be as poor as the rushed NI protocol?

---------- Post added at 23:45 ---------- Previous post was at 23:43 ----------

That was never going to happen whoever Corbyn was up against - Cameron, May or BoJo.

---------- Post added at 23:47 ---------- Previous post was at 23:45 ----------

Good explainer from the Beeb.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-53724381

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Really, I thought he made his name as a reporter by getting sacked for telling lies :shrug:

---------- Post added at 00:09 ---------- Previous post was at 00:05 ----------

Great so we're oath breakers now, this the brexit dividend I keep hearing about, that we can no longer be trusted

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Remember they're the enemy! It's as if some people can't accept the war ended more than 75 years ago :rolleyes:.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Treaties - don't forget this protocol was put in place to help preserve the Good Friday Agreement, keeping the border open between the North and the Republic.

Doesn't bode well for future treaties if we walked away from this one after 6 months. If I was a negotiator for another country trying to set up a treaty with the UK, I would put in some tough break clauses right now.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Question is . . . do the people of NI want English sausages or are they quite happy with the EU ones?

Is there a mori poll anywhere? ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

From what I've read and understand (but i could be wrong) no other non EU countries are allowed to import chilled meat products into the EU.

We have equivalence, just with other non EU members.

Seems to be that some people think that because we were members of the EU that we should somehow be more equal than other non EU countries

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I would imagine that some kind of equivalence agreement will be the end result of all this. As far as I can see, it's the depth of equivalence that might be the sticking point. If it were as simple as the UK SPS standards are equivalent to EU ones, that's all good until one side or the other changes standards. There's a fine political line between agreeing equivalent standards and being a vassal state of the demonic EU.

Going back to the old trope of chlorinated chicken, the UK accepting this would not be equivalent SPS standards so we would either need 1 level of SPS standards for GB only and another for Northern Ireland with some serious amounts of paperwork to handle this or we're back to where we are now.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Do the rules state that chilled meat products can be imported into the EU by non EU countries if standards are aligned?

Or, do they state that no non EU country can import chilled meat products such as sausages into the EU

It's the latter, go on, admit it, it won't hurt.

We voted to leave the EU, we've left the EU, we now play by the rules of a non EU country.

This is what the people who voted for wanted to happen, the people voted the government in with a huge majority based on the election promise to 'Get Brexit done.' Well, Brexit is done.

The people who voted for this increasing shambles of a situation, now need to own it.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'm all for owning it, it's easy . . just don't send any chilled meat to anyone in the EU . . and if that includes Northern Ireland (who are NOT in the EU) then I'm fine with that.

Let the Irish and their puppet masters sort out what THEY want, and leave the sausage eating to us :p:

Incidentally, what sausages do Southern Ireland shops sell?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Correct, however, effectively NI remains within the EU's single market for goods.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

They look uninteresting and unappetising:sick:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

hmm so the problem isn't with the Irish buying & eating our sausages, it's with the potential sell on to an EU country?

Didn't click the link, wasn't the accepted answer.
If someone asked how to spell 'peculiar' I'd write it, not post a link to a dictionary :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I bet BoJo's a bit gutted he can't sell his porky pies in Belfast. ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I forgot to ask this earlier. Boris always said he was prepared to walk away. The question therefore begs, why didn't he? If 'silly terms' were the terms offered.

In my mind there's a couple of possibilities

1. The UK government didn't understand the terms offered.
2. The UK government whilst publicly proclaiming that they were prepared to walk away, believed that a no deal scenario was significantly worse.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'm sure if you dig far enough you'll find the answer you seek.

I'm betting it has something to do with 'expert economic advisors' though ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

There's also;

3. Sign it off now to 'get Brexit done' and renegotiate later

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Answers 2. and 3. are not mutually exclusive though. ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Nowt like a Lorne sausage in a Glasgow roll, with fried onions, washed down with a can of Irn Bru...;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The UK wishes to portray the EU as obsessed with bureaucracy and believes that in this issue there’s a real chance they can get the EU to do it for them.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That line may play well to a British audience. It's to BoJo's advantage that he's hosting the summit and that Biden will be meeting the Queen afterwards.

But let's not forget that the G7 includes three EU countries plus another EU representative who will all be queuing up to bend Biden's ear. Biden will doubtless be well briefed by the Irish and is likely to put some pressure on BoJo to honour what he has signed.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Talking of the Irish, any news snippets on this subject from the First Minister or Deputy?

I guess they have more important issues this week, and sausages can play a back role