Re: Coronavirus
 

The Microwave was discovered by accident.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Occam’s Razor - why haven’t they done it already, with all the current vaccinations?

Re: Coronavirus
 

I was aiming my comment more at the ideological anti-vaxxers as opposed to people who for a lot of reasons, health conditions or other medications might be apprehensive about new treatments.

I think the openness and transparency around the work would satisfy that group.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Who says they haven't.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Reminds me of the conspiracy of swapping MH370 for MH16 to then shoot it down. Why not just shoot down MH16? :confused:

Re: Coronavirus
 

It is a standard tactic of conspiracy theorists to propose convoluted scenarios and then place the burden of proof on those who disagree. It is also standard for the conspiracist to treat opposition to their speculations as further proof of the conspiracy. Ultimately you can't argue with these people. The only recourse is to shrug and move on. The internet has been the great enabler of fools and there's little that can be done about it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Only people who don't understand how the pharma supply, production, and distribution chain works, with its component track and trace requirements from raw materials to finished product on the shop/hospital shelf.

They are also probably the same people who don't understand how the creation and testing of pharma works - you can't just "add another component" to an already existing product (as that product will have gone through the phases of regulatory testing in all the different countries for it's existing build), and if you could, you would have to replicate the testing to make sure it still a) did what it was supposed to do originally, and b) fulfilled it's new requirement as well, all without any publicity/leaks.

As I said earlier, Occam's Razor. :)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ah your happy with the simple explanation.

Re: Coronavirus
 

No, the simplest one with the fewest assumptions, based on falsifiability criteria which are testable...

Re: Coronavirus
 

It would be easier to break into N Korea than get into my doctors.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

@DuttonChemistry

:D

Apparently, it is important when reporting about the vaccines, you can only write about it as "The Pfizer vaccine, the Moderna vaccine, and the Oxford vaccine"

Re: Coronavirus
 

If only there was an antidote or a vaccine against gullibility and stupidity.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Cambridge must be feeling a bit stupid this week.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Durham is working on one as well, and when it comes out it will work exactly the same way the Oxford one does and be just as good.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It will be most people’s reserve vaccine...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Aye look what’s named after it... Cambridge Analytica.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

It was only a joke in the spirit of a number of posts that went before it.

Unless they're collecting the data from the micro transmitters the vaccine lodges in the body.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ooh let's hear more about that.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They’re going to be concentrated in the brain, as the brain control transmitters are very short-range.

Anyway, due to the large number of people who will refuse the COVID vaccine because it will include tracking/ mind-control microchips, the New World Order is spending billions of dollars to ensure that all medical and dental injections and procedures include the chips, so that the only way to avoid being 'chipped' will be to refuse any and all dental and medical treatment.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Miles off . . Apple have been introducing tracking/mind-control microchips into people for a few years now. One of the shortest paths to the brain is through the ear, and the reason Apple Ear Buds are so expensive is due to the cost of coating them with those nano transmitter thingy-bobs.

Think back to the issue with Apple tech and track n trace :p:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Ummmm, back to the subject .....

Re: Coronavirus
 

Called it.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...postcount=4594

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/...cocks-23064343

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well it looks like our city is going into Tier 2 from next Wednesday from tier 1.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I would love to find out but the Governments website seems to have died!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sadly it crashed so l checked the local online news site.

---------- Post added at 11:47 ---------- Previous post was at 11:40 ----------

l think your area is in Tier 2 jonbxx.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yep, Tier 2 for me. Where I live has very low infection rate at 53/100,000 but we get lumped in with the rest of Herts. Hey, could be worse I guess....

Re: Coronavirus
 

We've been moved from 1 to 2 so that's the pubs ruined. :(

Re: Coronavirus
 

Same here heero.:(

Re: Coronavirus
 

Unless they serve substantial meals like the Conservative donor owned Wetherspoons ;)

Here is the online statement which gives an idea of thinking for each region and why they got the grade they did - https://questions-statements.parliam...-11-26/hcws608

It seems that positive rates in the elderly are (rightly) critical to the decisions

Re: Coronavirus
 

Unless you live in Cornwall or the Scilly Isles you're in 2 or 3.

If you live in the North you're probably in 3.

Garbage. I appreciate they have a very difficult task, but London in 2?!!!!!

Can't let the M25 bubble not have access to their Gin and Sushi Bars!

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'll be glad when all this perpetual whining comes to end, but somehow it will continue endlessly, as I think people are only just getting started.

Re: Coronavirus
 

To be honest Devon should have been in the same tier as Cornwall.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Heard this point a few times now about the M25 bubble getting special rules. MPs away from their constituencies clearly need to eat out and drink.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A populist theory and not an evidence-based one - Kent is in Level 3, for example.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Blanketing London boroughs & the City of London into one tier is a ridiculous move.

One of the boroughs has a current case rate nearly the same as MIddlesbrough.. There are also several boroughts with cases less than 100/100,000

Re: Coronavirus
 

In our Toby before the lockdown we were joking that there should be an apparent "meal" that is put out on the table so you can enjoy a pint.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

A lot of people are starting to have had enough.

Some of the new rules/guidelines/laws are utterly ridiculous.

4,000 people or 50% capacity (whichever is less) can attend football matches/concerts in Tier 2? Yet, I cannot visit my elderly father in law in his own home in and goes out once a day for a walk ? (not easy for him mentally as he normally spends all of his spring/summer & autumn on his motorbikes)

There's no cohesion, It would also appear a lack of evidence based decision making in certain rules.

---------- Post added at 13:26 ---------- Previous post was at 13:24 ----------

You'll have to explain that one to me, sorry, not enough coffee.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It'll be a nightmare to police it. You would have one pub closed in Finsbury Park and then another open a street away in Holloway. London may have different boroughs but a lot of London operates as one city. You're not going to have someone in Hacknet obeying tier 3 if in Islington they're operating as tier 2.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm sorry but that's twaddle,

At the start of the tiering system Middlesbrough was in Tier 2, whilst Stockton on Tees was in Tier 3

By your own logic & argument it's impossible to police the whole tiering system, so just put the entire country into tier 3

In this instance, London is not special, nor does it deserve special treatment.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

The evidence (for football matches) is that outdoor activities are generally safe. There aren't significant concerns about larger groups in football stadia, the concerns really lie around linked activities. Getting sloshed on a supporters bus, packing into pubs around grounds, using public transport to get to/from a game.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Thanks for the clarification.

Hasn't the government set out what should be done between travelling between tiers ?

The distance between between some London boroughs, is greater than (and again i use the north east as an example) Middlesbrough & Stockton (both well interconnected), yet as per my previous post the government had no issues with them operating in different tiers

---------- Post added at 13:38 ---------- Previous post was at 13:37 ----------

Yet despite those concerns, it can still go ahead.... hmmmm, i wonder why?

Re: Coronavirus
 

If you look at the public transport systems in Middlesbrough and London you'll appreciate the difference - London really is one region.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There will always be cases where the border between tiers will go directly through a town or city that the locals have treated as one but that's not the same as the hyper-local tiers that'll be created by dividing up London into segments.

We're talking about quite small areas geographically. You could take a bus and in less than an hour have been in and out of tier 2 multiple times. London is one city, the boroughs exist for administration purposes. If the boroughs were bigger or more easily defined it wouldn't be so bad. If we were just saying 'North London, East London, West London and South London' then it would be more feasible. It's more obvious. You cross the river and then the tiers change or if anything West of the A10 was tier 2 and anything East is in tier 2. Also easier. Good luck trying to divide Camden/Islington/Hackey though.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I spent a lot of months & years in various parts of London with work, I know how the transport systems operate.

If you want to treat London as one 'region', fair enough, If that's the case then you place the entire 'region' in the tier of which the highest borough should reside. Which would in this case be T3

---------- Post added at 13:53 ---------- Previous post was at 13:53 ----------


See above

Re: Coronavirus
 

Key reason for the boroughs is that the Government does not want an alternative seat of power in England challenging its authority. That's why Margaret Thatcher abolished the Greater London Council. The Lord Mayor of London has the weakest powers of all the metro mayors in England.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It'll be interesting to see how the regulation on pubs serving a substantial meal is worded: Do they just need the ability to serve the meal or do you actually have to have the meal to get a pint?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Where have you got Tier 3 from?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Go and look at the case right for the highest borough in London

Then go and see where that would have placed it in the tiering system.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why? If we took some arbitrary area of Liverpool that had high cases should that be used to put all of Liverpool in tier 3?

The issue is you seem to think of London as a loose union of 32 independent boroughs when it's a single city that was divided into these administrative regions that did not reflect the makeup of the city at the time and do not do so now. They don't even reflect what people think of the city. Most people would be surprised to find parts of the City of London are actually in the Camden administrative region for example.



---------- Post added at 14:03 ---------- Previous post was at 14:02 ----------

I think you need to have the meal but what I am wondering is what is substantial and how long does that then permit you to get multiple pints?

Can I order chips and then spend the rest of the afternoon downing pints or not?

Re: Coronavirus
 

If you take London as a region, which you accept, then you take the rate for the region, not for one village/town/borough in London.

Re: Coronavirus
 

What will lesser measures do in an area that has very high case load ? > 350/100,000

Will the virus magically know to only stay in that area? Will it fail to top up it's Oyster card and have to resort to fair dodging?

---------- Post added at 14:07 ---------- Previous post was at 14:04 ----------


If depends on if you're concerned about a significant increase of transmission. I guess.

Target your hardest measures for a shorter period of time across a large area, or inevitably see an increase in growth which eventually means that all of that area will be subject to hardest measures for a longer period of time.

To summarise 'Nip it in the bud'

Re: Coronavirus
 

If demand exceeds supply which is likely pre-Christmas, then I think they will be tougher - some pubs I know in not particularly well-to-do areas limited eating and drinking to two-hour slots per person.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Interestingly, not the same logic that other major countries applied, Singapore, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Thailand, South Korea, Taiwan

Almost as if they knew how to handle a pandemic in the first place

Re: Coronavirus
 

Thats because they were well prepared wherever we couldn't organise a piss-up in a brewery to put it bluntly.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Still, I'm sure everything else they're 'planning for' will go swimmingly, with absolutely no cause for concern, alarm or suffering to either people or the economy :erm:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Singapore and Hong Kong can't really be described as regions, they are more or less just cities. Taiwan is an island. They are all relatively geographically isolated. In South Korea, there was none of this constant bellyaching over rules, they just for the most part, behaved themselves.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They behaved themselves for two reasons.

1) It's in their nature to do so
2) The rules were implemented nationally regardless of deviation.

e.g. Koh Samui (also an island) had an incredibly low case rate, yet was and is subject to the same restrictions as mainland Thailand the last time I checked.

Singapore, outbreaks mainly confirmed to migrant workers accommodation however rules were applied at the entire city state

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well it stands to reason that football fans will be unable to pack into pubs if those have additional restrictions too.

Supporters buses are less likely given limits on crowds will have predominantly home fans and bigger clubs having to ballot tickets some among existing season ticket holders.

Public transport unlikely to be overwhelmed by 4000 fans versus 40000 at big clubs. Smaller clubs in local towns and communities more likely to have fans walk to the game.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why would they make an exception for Devon Den?

Our figures in Cornwall are clearly deemed as better. :)

Anyway you make your scones the wrong way round :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Do you go to football matches ?

---------- Post added at 14:39 ---------- Previous post was at 14:38 ----------

To be fair, I'm sure the scones are all made the same it's the application of clotted cream/jam, conserve which is of dispute.

Personally jam first then cream on top is my go to

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes.

I’ve attended games with crowds from 200 to packed cup finals and plenty in between. I’ve done pub crawls to games, been on supporters buses and used public transport too!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Taiwan is an independent island state, so your example is unsurprisingly meaningless. Koh Samui is only around 10 miles from the mainland.

You mean England didn't have nationally set rules, back in March?:rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Apparently the decision to put Devon into Tier 2 was made primarily based on the healthcare capacity in the region.

This is of course due to the historic long term underfunding of healthcare in our region.

---------- Post added at 14:48 ---------- Previous post was at 14:46 ----------

l wholeheartedly disagree.:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well what a surprise, London (where all the MPs are) is in T2, while we all suffer T3.

That's the last of any support I had for this government gone, just biased, knee jerk hippocrites.

Re: Coronavirus
 

And is that based upon facts or bias?

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'll treat the bolded with the contempt it as usual deserves...

What on earth does Taiwan being an independent island state have to do with it?

Koh Samui may well be 10 miles away from the mainland but it was met with the same draconian restrictions as the mainland. Yet, in the UK London sets it's tier by the average case rate

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's probably based on 9 months of 'making it up as you go along' aka Sage advice.


:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

So, knowing what happens on away days etc. do you think that supporters will observe rules? I'll give you pubs etc but unless they make trains dry & the coaches too. regulations will not be enforceable.

---------- Post added at 15:53 ---------- Previous post was at 15:51 ----------

That would be the Sage advice that the government has consistently chosen to ignore when it suits them?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yep so much for following the science as its more like following the politics..

Re: Coronavirus
 

Bit difficult for away fans to travel from - say Exeter to Carlisle during a lock down. Everton v Liverpool, or Spurs V West Ham would be easier, but no cross country travel needed there :p:



edit: "That would be the Sage advice that the government has consistently chosen to ignore when it suits them?"

Yeah, in the case of tier 2 London it seems so :p:

Re: Coronavirus
 

So you accept that it's not Sage as you earlier specified. Excellent

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think if you turn around and tell a club with 50,000 season ticket holders they are permitted to let 4,000 fans in that statistically the chances of a whole supporters bus all getting a ticket are slim to zero. Similarly the numbers travelling to/from the game on each train/bus/tube service will be tiny compared to a normal match day.

Of the 4,000 (maximum) a sizeable number will travel by private car to games aided by the fact there will be less congestion and easier parking with the restrictions in place.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Home fans might... Away fans historically car share especially long distance games

Re: Coronavirus
 

I live north of london so as expected we get screwed by tier 3.

Re: Coronavirus
 

When it suits them, try harder ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...zeneca-vaccine

Concerns over the Oxford vaccine will hopefully be allayed if this peer reviewed data is in the Lancet at the weekend.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So nothing whatsoever to do with the number of cases etc in your region?
How far north of London are Kent, Slough, Bristol, North Somerset, and South Gloucestershire?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Plenty of areas north of London are in Tier 2 eg - Cheshire, Cumbria, York, North Yorkshire, Northamptonshire, Herefordshire, Worcestershire. Shropshire, Liverpool City Region including Wirral and Southport, Buckinghamshire, etc.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Scarborough in N Yorks has 296 cases per 100000 yet they’re in Tier 2

Please justify this ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm in T3 with 157 cases per 100,000.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I have no doubt there are areas in Tier 3 that have 0 cases per 100,000. So what?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Lancaster is below the national average, guess what, tier 3 for there too

---------- Post added at 18:19 ---------- Previous post was at 18:18 ----------

Why would you put an area with a 0 case rate in tier 3

Re: Coronavirus
 

Because it's impossible to define geographic areas so small and not have people flout the rules.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I knew it would take something special to compete with VAR as unfit for purpose, looks like the latest Tier restrictions have accomplished that :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

On that l think we can agree...:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

And your solution would be..................?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Seems we're taking it seriously now, about time.

'Eat out to Help out (and help spread a deadly disease) was a massive own goal, and whilst I love pubs, I can cope without them.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I rather thought you might Den. Just as I knew you knew what I was talking about without resorting to pathetic pedantry. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Kent isn’t Westminster, Victoria, soho, Oxford st. Etc etc.

---------- Post added at 19:36 ---------- Previous post was at 19:33 ----------

Having circa 2000 people in an outside 40,000 capacity venue is not a risk. It’s rediculous that it’s taken this long.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Doubts are growing over the Oxford vaccine claims.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...droidApp_Other
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-h...ions-lockdown/

Re: Coronavirus
 

What a surprise, Americans don’t like the idea that a vastly cheaper and more manageable vaccine might be about as effective as the two cryogenically cooled, eye-wateringly expensive ones developed in ... America.

The Oxford vaccine works, the headline announcement actually went with the average of all test results in any case (70%, which is still very effective), and even on Monday they were quite explicit in explaining where the 90% sample came from and how they were following it up.

Americans have protectionist instincts. No surprise there. This is a non story.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Maybe. We all bow to your scientific expertise.... Lets hope whoever decides which vaccine is best for us, isn't swayed by jingoism/what's cheapest.

Re: Coronavirus
 

While I'm equally sceptical of American input/insight into anything trade related as they'll have obvious protectionist tendencies and they have another dog in this race I look forward to more data and peer review to clear matters up.

I'm sure we all want a vaccine that works, and not just the cheapest one we can drape in a Union Flag.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I have access to the same data as you old chum. I simply lack the need to believe everything that happens in this country is doomed to fail.

Re: Coronavirus