Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Great time to call an election if the country is in chaos. That's going to work out really well for the 'governing' party and the last thing we need at such a time.

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Well we did not need a election when Theresa May called one and that did not end very well did it as we have had ensuing chaos since..

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Boris has certainly hit the ground running. A total contrast to the stalled govenment under lackluster May.

Full results and commentary on red link.

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Strange - the YouGov site for that poll shows Tories on 31%, Labour on 22%, and LibDems on 21%.

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics...em-21-brex-14-

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Looks like a typo as the headline to the piece says a 9 point lead.

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

There isn't time to discuss, negotiate, agree, and implement any currently non-existent deal before Oct 31.


Link
Agreeing to a currently non-existent deal would be an even greater abuse of power.

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Dun dun dun dun.

Here comes the recession.

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

He's promised to spend on everything, borrow it all and has so far delivered nothing. God knows what his supporters would say if was a Labour PM doing this. His fall will be even quicker than his rise.

Back in the real world our economy has just contracted, wonder why ?
https://www.theguardian.com/business...y_to_clipboard

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Thats pretty inevitable..

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Project Fear in a recession could actually be quite an entertaining watch. Johnson standing there saying everything will be fine as everything collapses around him.

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Pretty much the same tune they’re singing all over Europe right now.

It will be interesting to see how Boris and Sajid approach things and whether they have a significantly different approach to Spreadsh*t Phil (my guess is they will).

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Interesting to see what it will be, given so many unquantifiable risks at the moment.

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Yet more never ending nonsense.
Link
So it's also happened BEFORE Brexit.


So the normal later annual shutdown won't now happen, therefore potentially boosting that quarter.

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Yes, recessions and economic contractions have happened before. :confused:

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

She really did need to call an election because she knew she would have a problem with Parliament getting her deal through. Unfortunately, she fell apart during the campaign, and it all started so well.

I think most people acknowledge that Boris has little choice but to call an election immediately after Brexit. He only has a majority of 1, so all the renegades would have a field day, holding him to ransom over everything he wanted to push through.

This chaos has to stop, and an election appears to be the only way to bring back some sanity to our Parliament. His personal popularity, coupled with a grateful electorate relieved to see Brexit finally ddlivered, will guarantee him a good working majority.

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Bollocks as she has had a reasonable enough majority before calling a election which was then reduced considerably after the election so whoever gave her advice about calling a election was quite clearly wrong.

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Reminds me of "some" Remainer folk, that whenever there is any "Good" news on the UK Economy, they kindly remind us, "We haven't left EU yet." But when negative news hits, "IT'S BECAUSE OF BREXIT, GODDAMMIT!". :rolleyes:

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Under the old Parliamentary arithmetic her deal passes every time.

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

The advice was sound. The Tories had a very comfortable polling lead going into the 2017 election campaign, which May squandered by being quite useless. At least she was consistent ... the electorate saw through her, then the EU negotiators saw through her and eventually even her loyal backbenchers saw through her and insisted she had to go. A different PM going in to 2017 would, I believe, have got an increased parliamentary majority, a better WA from the EU and would have got it through Parliament as well. We would now be outside the EU, with a solid Tory government and most likely with a Labour leadership contest on the horizon.

Still, we are where we are and I’m glad she’s gone.

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

The was an economist on the radio today that actually talked rational sense.

He advised that in 2012 there was a lot of positive economic factors in the run up to the olympics and once the olympics finished there was an obvious deficit in those factors.

Likewise, in 2019, the country was gearing up for a March exit. Bulk buying and storing of materials and products was rife. But Brexit didn’t happen.Therefore causing a deficit in the activity the following quarter.

With BJ taking a hard line on October exit - regardless, expect to see more buying and storing activity a second contraction is unlikely but expect a contraction the quarter after regardless of whether we leave or not.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

It's a reasonable enough theory. That's why it's vital we avoid contraction this quarter, as further contraction would indicate wider underlying problems as opposed to peaks and troughs that could be associated with stockpiling.

FWIW: I think avoiding recession, if we do so, if only postponing the inevitable. It's a global issue not just a UK one.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

What are the chances they won't be invited again.

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Small flaw in that theory - the 2012 recession was caused by negative growth in the last quarter of 2011 (Oct-Dec) and the first quarter of 2012 (Jan-Mar 2012),

The Olympics were in July/August 2012...

Anyway, after its historical data, the Office for National Statistics said growth was flat in the first quarter of 2012, revised from an earlier estimate of a 0.1% contraction. This means the economy did not contract for two quarters in a row - the definition of a recession.

---------- Post added at 20:35 ---------- Previous post was at 20:33 ----------

[/COLOR]Do you mean like Nigel Farage?

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

The negative growth in 2012 was 2nd qtr(Apr-Jun) and 4th(Oct-Dec). Therefore no recession. First quarter of 2012 was +0.6%.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-17836624 It was then updated by the ONS in June 2013

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-23079082 Update - Looking st the ONS site, it supports your assertion - apologies.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/gross...priltojune2019

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Boris's approach is definitely to intervene and spend in a more Labouresque manner than either Phil Hammond or George Osborne This is shown by the £300m being given to keep British Steel afloat.
https://news.sky.com/story/ministers...ckage-11781023

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Re: [Update 2] PM Boris forms a government
 

Don't shoot the messenger, take it up with him. I’ll side with him for now.

---------- Post added at 21:48 ---------- Previous post was at 21:46 ----------

Ooh that was lucky, I could have been shot!

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Taken from the link above regarding British Steel . . .



excuse me if I appear thick, unable to comprehend written English, or simply way off the mark with how things work in world politics . . but shoving £300m into something that's then sold for £70m is confusing me :dunce:

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Some of it is loans.

It’s basically corporate socialism. Capitalism doesn’t cover losses to the Government has to step in. See collapsed pension providers, train operators and banks.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

It's called buying votes or supporting disadvantaged regions depending on your perspective.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Its called State aid in all but name.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

err . . . nope, still don't understand it :shrug:

unless it means that 'rules and regulations' of one description or another state that the UK cannot purchase British Steel for £70m, and must instead pay out a £300m supporting grant to allow a different Country to purchase British Steel


Not that British Steel has been British for ages anyway :D

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Steel is a strategic resource, as is the ability to produce it domestically. It isn’t especially important who owns it, as in time of deep national crisis - eg a major war - it can quickly be nationalised under emergency powers. But it can’t be nationalised if it doesn’t exist. So spending the money to keep the works going is sound strategy.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

See Boris has used the word 'collaborators' for anyone that he doesn't agree with. Him and his loony backers still think it's the Second World War... Never mind, rationing soon, which they'll love !

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I haven't seen powdered egg on the shelves yet, the supermarkets are probably working on the recipe as we speak :D

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

He knows what he is doing by using the term collaborators specifically so presumably they have calculated that the reaction will be something they want.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

It’s classic dog-whistle campaigning. The usual remain-minded individuals will be enraged, but this isn’t for their benefit, it’s aimed at would-be Farage or Labour voters who might be persuaded to vote Boris in the forthcoming election that isn’t happening.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Because what’s not to like about being compared to the Vichy Government, Quisling, and the Britisches Freikorps?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

He said "kind of collaboration". Eg "Common Purpose".
Link.

Eg "Common Purpose".

The ONLY aim of those arguing for stopping a no-deal Brexit, is to force Remain. There is no current alternative to no-deal, all thanks to the "collaborators". There ISN'T any deal on the table to be accepted or rejected.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Bless...

As Chris said above, "it’s classic dog-whistle campaigning"...

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Link

And that isn't collaboration?:confused:


Other than to remain, what "deal" have the Remain side ever suggested?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Corbyn just wants to be PM at any cost. Because he knows he won’t be elected as a PM he’s trying anyway possible. Just the same way he asked the government to “stand aside” earlier.

He knows he will never be elected so he just wants to be appointed, like the democratic socialist he is.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I don't think it's that because the other parties would pull the plug on him if he tried it.

More to the point the numbers wouldn't work anyway, not enough Tory rebels that would vote for him even if there were few Labour rebels.

This is about trying to box in the Liberal Democrats. Labour know the Liberal Democrats have the strongest objection to Corbyn of the Remain parties and they are also the biggest threat to them outside of that. So it makes an offer for an alliance that won't work. If the Liberals accept it then it scares away Remain Conservatives in Lib Dem marginals 'Vote Liberal, Get Corbyn' and if they refuse then it damages them amongst Labour-inclinded Remainers too.

Labour can't stand the Liberal Democrats because they'll find it harder to move as left as they naturally would like if there is a viable alternative on the centre-left, they can't take the entire left for granted if they have somewhere else to go.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

You give him way far too much credit. This was about Corbyn’s ego and not much else.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

I'm not sure it's fair to say Corbyn wants to be PM at any cost. There are fairly straightforward ways to make himself more electable and he doesn't do those!

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

"anti-democrats" = people who do something you disagree with, even if it legal and within Parliamentary procedure...

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Why do you do this? Is it just for the sake of being contrary or don't you understand how anti-democratic it is try to unseat your own party of government for the sake of defeating the direct democracy instruction that the government received?

And why pick on one word pair in my response when there is a crisis more serious than Brexit facing us? A Corbyn premiership?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Why do you do this? Is it just for the sake of being contrary or don’t you understand that we don’t have a "direct democracy", we have a Parliamentary Democracy.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Of which Democratically decided in 2015, to give the people of the UK a Referendum on leaving the EU. A year later, the people decided with over a million majority, to leave the EU. What some of these pathetic *******s in Parliament are doing now, because they didn’t like the decision we gave them, they’re far from Democratic are trying to reverse or erase the result.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Ermmm, Boris?

---------- Post added at 09:42 ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 ----------

Maybe they are worried about those that didn't vote or the increasing number that have changed their mind. Even those that voted yes weren't expecting the chaos of no deal, no one suggested that at the time.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

oh look, here it is again. The strongest and most important argument against the 'vote of the century' :rolleyes:

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

There is no increasing number that have changed their mind.

The only chaos being caused is by pathetic Remainers, trying to overturn the result. Those who didn’t vote, that were eligible, don’t matter, they had the chance and if they blew it when they sat on their arses and couldn’t be bothered.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Boris is the leader of the party with the most MP’s in the Commons, as of the last election.

He was elected by the members of that party to lead it.

If Corbyn does the same, no argument.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Difference being Boris wasn't leader of his party at the last election, when the public knew which Muppet would end up being PM.

---------- Post added at 07:21 ---------- Previous post was at 07:13 ----------

Theres been enough of a change.
https://whatukthinks.org/eu/question...ould-you-vote/

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

But nobody who wants to leave is confident enough to put that to the test.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

No one asked me. I voted remain and now would vote leave. So did and would Mrs Pierre.

I suspect we’re not alone.

---------- Post added at 08:11 ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 ----------

I’ve always advocated that I would be happy to re-run the Referendum on the exact same question.

I believe the result would be the same or too close to be definitive.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The problem with re-running the referendum is that a lot of people will protest and stay at home, because they feel that they have already answered the question. That might well lead to a different result, but it would not mean a vote to remain (with that lower turnout) amounted to a change of mind.

People were promised that the result would be implemeented. I am surprised that so many people are happy for promises to be broken.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Morally, this is about as valid as Biff Tannen asking Marty McFly if he’s chicken.

We’re making no demand beyond that which was promised in 2016: that the result be respected. The result has not been implemented. We must leave, as promised. If that doesn’t work out then why not start campaigning for a referendum on joining?

Nothing, incidentally, has changed since 2016 in our knowledge of what leaving looks like, except for what we have “learned” thanks to the machinations of an EU, a UK civil service and a cabinet made predominantly of people who didn’t want us to leave. We haven’t actually left so there’s no valid reason for holding a new vote on the same question.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Not true - we have learned that we will be stockpiling food, medicines, reserving cross-Channel ferry capacity and specialist warehousing and stockpiling space, hiring more Border Force officers, having contingency plans to manage bottlenecks in freight traffic, spending around £130m on a huge public information campaign, and under Operation Yellowhammer, the MOD will have 3,500 troops available for deployment if needed.

We didn’t know that in 2016...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47652280

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Quite. And I’m certain that none of the details of the worst case planning for the transition period ... the transition, not, notably, our life permanently outside the EU ... have in any way been used to insinuate that this is what being a non-member looks like and therefore we should all vote to remain instead. :dozey:

We don’t know what being by far the largest European economy outside the EU is like, because we’ve not been there yet. We can - and have - debated the risks and the possibilities, all of which resulted in the leave vote in 2016.

When we have been permanently outside for a while, if it’s truly awful and, somehow, unlike every other non-EU state in the world we have permanently to worry about stockpiling essentials, then perhaps is the time to start arguing for a referendum on joining the EU. Before we get there, all we have is an argument based on deception, which is awfully rich coming from those who complain that the leave vote was carried in that way.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Yes we did - all that kind of crap came out before and it is still fear mongering nonsense!

Would always ALWAYS vote to leave the corrupt and cancerous EU every time because we have the right to live in a independent country, shame on you for believing that we need the EU when we certainly do not.

---------- Post added at 14:15 ---------- Previous post was at 14:13 ----------

We should not have to - one vote is enough, the democratic decision in 2016 must be enacted, enough of demanding second and third votes so you can throw your toys out the pram and can keep trying to get the result you want.
Pathetic!

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Lol, I think the EU would tell us where to go if we asked to rejoin !

---------- Post added at 15:25 ---------- Previous post was at 15:22 ----------

Don't know who you listened to Mick, no one suggested anything about a no deal chaos.

Project Fear might just prove to be something we can only dream of.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

How can it be "fear mongering nonsense" if it’s actually happening? (all these things are part of the U.K. Government’s contingency planning - these things have been budgeted for and are being put in place).

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Perhaps, as I suggested earlier, it’s not that it’s being planned for that’s the problem, but that worst-case transition planning is being deliberately conflated with preparation for the permanent impoverishment of the country.

Life outside the EU is a long term prospect, not to be confused with the short-term complications of leaving - at least some of which are perhaps more complicated than they might have needed to be, given the disposition of both sides of the negotiations from 2016 until very recently.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

All the things you list may be required for a time as we transition out of the EU. They will not be the permanent new arrangement and if they happened would be temporary if needed at all.

So to list these things and propose them, as you seem to be, as how things will work going forward is scaremongering.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

They'll be like some sort of back stop

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

No, not really.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Any border/customs related issues will also exist on the other side of any border with the EU. If anything the EU side will have more problems as the EU countries have less choice over what they can or cannot do. Eg We can fast track certain items, but the EU can't.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Voters firmly reject Boris Johnson’s plan to crash out of EU with no deal, poll finds.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexi...cid=spartanntp

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The 'no deal chaos' is a figment of the imagination of the Project Fear Brigade.

The population is beginning to see through that now. A lot of people are going to look rather foolish by the turn of the year, when the sky will not have caved in.

---------- Post added at 20:10 ---------- Previous post was at 20:08 ----------

Actually happening? Where? I went shopping in Sainsbury's today. Shelves were pretty well stocked.

---------- Post added at 20:17 ---------- Previous post was at 20:10 ----------

Seems to contradict another poll I saw recently which showed that if Boris got us out of the EU with a no deal, the Conservatives would be most likely to get back in with a working majority.

Was this one a poll of 'Independent' readers, I wonder? :p:

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

All's well in cloud cuckoo land then OB? That's nice ;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Voters would rather have Boris and No Deal than Caretaker Corbyn and a second referendum, poll finds.

https://order-order.com/2019/08/17/y...exit-pm-corbyn

You pays your money and you takes your poll. In this case, the polls apparently support the political views of the website reporting them, to the surprise of absolutely no-one.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

No different to the other UK newspapers l would imagine..

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

You appear to have misunderstood/misinterpreted my post - I was referring to the government current budgeting/plans/actions for mitigation in the event of a "no deal" Brexit, actions that the Government are doing now, not Sainsbury’s shelves, which would only be affected by a "no deal" Brexit after Hallowe’en, not today - sorry if this was difficult for you to understand...

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Because it is-end of discussion. :rolleyes:

On that note...

BREAKING: The Brexit Secretary has now signed the formal order repealing the 1972 European Communities Act on October 31, Sunday Telegraph reveals. The repealing of the act ends EU Law Supremacy over UK Domestic Law.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Polls.......they’re a dime a dozen, and you take any headline from them you want

https://www.politico.eu/article/half...-no-pm-corbyn/

---------- Post added at 08:54 ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 ----------

Brexit: PM to tell EU leaders to renegotiate deal https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49385263

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Brexit: EU Leaders tell PM to get knotted..

They really aren't as desperate as we are, and have remained consistent, unlike us. We've overestimated our own importance again.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Well if we show them we have a spine we might get something.

The EU will not give us anything until it’s 10 to midnight on the 31st. Why should they?

We have a Remainer Parliament that will do anything to thwart Brexit, including bringing down the Government.

The EU will just let that happen, extend article 50, and then deal with a new government that will happily bend over and enjoy being rodgered the EU.

It’s pathetic and it’s very embarrassing to be British at the moment.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Why should the EU give us anything at all, even at 10 to midnight on the 31st? We voted to leave. If we are ill prepared then that's on us, not them.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

So you're both in agreement then, a 'No Deal' is the only outcome :D

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/n...aked-j6ntwvhll

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

If nothing changes it will. Don't think any of us would be laughing then though...

However even Bozza isn't that stupid, no deal would be electoral suicide, and his career is everything. Its a bluff to try and the EU to renegotiate - its failing.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Leaked report in the Times (behind paywall, but can be seen if you use incognito browsing).

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/n...ment-797qxkrcm

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Another one?

Maybe the Government should forget Brexit and start plugging all the leaks :rolleyes:


although I believe there are no leaks, only strategically released papers

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

This time from a Conservative leaning newspaper...

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Haha.

It's more likely than the EU coming cap in hand at the last minute with a glorious deal that doesn't involve remaining in a customs union for goods.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

You never know, perhaps while we're guessing things they (the EU) are developing a deal that will keep the EU afloat for another 3 or 4 years with our help ;)

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49388402

As I said earlier ... there was a time when all sides in this negotiation were in agreement that ideally the UK should not be leaving the EU in the first place. I’d have been more surprised if a document like this didn’t exist, and I couldn’t be less surprised that it is being leaked now, by someone who was in it up to their eyeballs and is still trying desperately, now from the outside of government, to continue to exert pressure to force the UK to remain as close to the EU as possible.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Don’t want a thing from those corrupt pricks. We need nothing from them.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

And the EU is prepared? Any difficulties work both ways.

Delays already happen with things like extreme bad weather and union strikes.


What is the difference between a customs delay of even a few hours, and days of heavy snow?

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

The snow will melt.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

And any early transitional difficulties will be fixed.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

You assume the difficulties will only be early and transitional. That’s an unknown.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Ha, everything from this point forward is an unknown.

One I am certain of, is that remainers ( and I mean Parliament as well) are totally naive if they think that blocking Brexit will be the end of it.


Half the country will have been discounted, + those that may not have voted for Brexit but believe in democracy, such as myself.

Any future looking Parliament will be very different.

There will almost certainly be no outright government. Coalitions will be the order of the day. Enter Farage.

Re: PM Boris forms a government
 

Eighth time lucky, eh? :D

---------- Post added at 20:43 ---------- Previous post was at 20:38 ----------

Look forward to the evidence to back up this anonymous briefing...

Let's get something straight - I hope to God* that this is all overblown, because if what has been published are the "likely outcomes" of a "no deal" Brexit, the poorest and/or the most vulnerable in society, and those least able to cope, will be the ones who will suffer most, and I don't believe anyone wishes that to happen.

*other deities/belief systems are available