Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Good, anything that makes that man 'not happy' is something I'm in favour of

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I think most would acknowledge that a centre left Labour Party would garner more votes than the hard left Corbyn Labour Party.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

l think that is quite true and l think one can apply that sentiment to the Conservative party as well OB as they like Labour they won't get a decent overall majority unless they appeal to be their more moderate voters more instead of veering more off to the right.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Some thoughts by Lord Ashcroft about the next election.

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2018/01...next-election/

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

More Labour nonsense from the maestros of outdated political dogma.

According to the Shadow Chancellor the answer to Venezuela's tragic economic problems is more socialism.

https://order-order.com/2018/01/26/m...ialist-enough/

Oddly, they're still unable to give us that shining example of where that works however... :rolleyes:

Can anyone seriously imagine idiots like this running the UK?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Yes, I remember the late 70's. Buy gold as money will be worth diddly squat.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

...And yet Maggie Thatcher gained huge popularity in the country, and I wouldn't call her a centrist.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Maggie Thatcher was what l would call classical liberalism.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I think the biggest problem in UK politics has been the concentrating on the do called centre ground that reduced all parties to amost lookalike status. I think people want clear differences between the political parties and opposing ideology it creates the chance for people to really debate and decide who best fits their beliefs. I'm tired of the politics we have had for the last 20 years that's seen the rise of political correctness an explosion of ethnic diversity and the turning of our police forces into more ideological enforcers then traditional bobbies. There is an increasing number of people in the UK who don't feel this is their country anymore and no one but knuckle dragging far right are even acknowledging the issue much less trying to find a solution, there is deep anger and resentment growing in the UK i hope I'm dead or living abroad when it comes to a head.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

19th Century Classic Liberalism, perhaps, with a focus on individualism?

I saw her more as economically liberal, with a strong streak of authoritarianism.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Yes that has just about summed her up.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I think of her as divisive and as far from liberal as you can get.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

'No such thing as society', according to Maggie. There certainly isn't after her tenure, no manufacturing industry left either :(

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The fabric of society and community which this country once had has long gone Mr K sadly.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Sadly very true Mr K

Why bother with all the costs of manufacturing when you can buy what you need, at a fraction of the price, from somewhere else?

Does it really matter that in doing so you are actively promoting, and party to, some dubious work ethic practices in foreign climes, many of which don't have to operate under some of the strict laws that other countries have to?

We became a 'service industry' nation, which was fine and dandy until the rot set in.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

A comment from a Woman’s Own interview in 1987 is often repeated, but rarely in context: ”There is no such thing as society”. Its relevance was made explicit with the publication of the second volume of Margaret Thatcher’s autobiography in 1993:

“they never quoted the rest. I went on to say: There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first. It’s our duty to look after ourselves and then to look after our neighbour. My meaning, clear at the time but subsequently distorted beyond recognition, was that society was not an abstraction, separate from the men and women who composed it, but a living structure of individuals, families, neighbours and voluntary associations.“

Link

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

More claptrap nonsense. All thanks to Labour and the Unions, squeezing industries, with crippling strikes. Just where we would be again, under a Racist/Antisemitic, Labour Government.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

So Jeremy can count on your vote Mick ;)

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I’m not racist thank you.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Now I am genuinely confused !

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

No l am pretty sure Mick is a Theresa May supporter despite a while back saying she had to go.:)

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The way you posted your previous response, suggested I’d vote for a Racist/Antisemitic Labour Party, because what?

You think I’m Racist?

Because what, I voted for Brexit?

Be very careful with what your saying, because I’m no racist.

For the record, I have Asian friends, my cousin has had children with a man from Pakistan.

I have Muslim colleagues, I offer lifts home to or pick up.

My female friend, her grandson has a Muslim father/background.

And lastly. I absolutely have admiration for the Jewish communities standing up for the Antisemitic behaviours that are on the rise, and they find the Antisemitic and racist behaviour from the Labour Party, absolutely abhorrent.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Very good Mick, but I've never suggested you're racist ! The suggestion you might like to vote for Jeremy is what I like to call 'humour'. It doesn't always have to be anger and confrontation, no matter how much you like that. :hugs:

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Fair do’s, must have been my misinterpretation on that post.

---------- Post added at 13:47 ---------- Previous post was at 13:44 ----------

Still a Tory supporter. But not a TM fan. Too weak and wobbly IMO.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Amazing what you can spin if you take one sentence from the actual quote...

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

So who would rock your boat then Mick?.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Well the Torygraph readers seem the think the Honourable member for the early 20th Century is 'the man'. I can see the public really taking to him as he's an 'ordinary bloke' who we can all relate to :D

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2018/01/15.jpg
(remind you of anyone ?)

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

l cannot see the more moderate voter of the Conservative party which there are many electing a hardliner Mr K.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Sounds like something is happening tonight. A story in one of the Sunday papers...

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Strictly or x-factor related ;)

---------- Post added at 19:32 ---------- Previous post was at 19:29 ----------

Don't think there any moderates left. Probably just Hugh and a couple of other old women at the coffee mornings ;)

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

What source did you get that from Damien?.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Political journalists on Twitter tbf....

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Watched Corbyn on Andrew Marr this morning. Couldn't believe what I was hearing when he discussed solving the homeless crisis by giving local authorities the right to effectively take over properties that people had bought off plan and were standing empty.

People will simply stop buying such properties and then builders will slow down on building

He also mentioned buying housing stock off housing associations, which makes a bit more sense.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I find it helps to imagine Corbyn as a benign Grandpa in slippers, casually puffing a pipe in front of a log fire whilst regaling his grandchildren with stories about fixing things in the big world. It's an idyllic scene.

And then his pipe blows up in his face :)

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

There is something a bit wrong with foreign investors, buying land, building luxury apartments; then keeping them empty until the time is right and they can make a profit. Meanwhile there are homeless UK citizens outside. Affordable housing ,not penthouses is what we need.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I agree but the answer isn't to steal them off them as this all brings income into the country but Corbyn doesn't seem to get that sort of thing.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Interesting reading now that the analysis has been done.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

If El Gov don't get visibly moving on a number of fronts like the NHS and housing we'll have Corbyn in power by default. A chilling prospect.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Looking at it independently the clear message from the last election was crystal clear and thus a failure to take those messages on board will ultimately be punished at the ballot box despite Corbyn being the opposition leader IMO.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I think the Tories would be mad to get rid of May. She called an election because she decided she didn't have her own mandate which was difficult with a small majority. Good luck being a new PM with no majority, everything would be far more unstable than it already is.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

What if Ruth Davidson could be persuaded to be the new leader?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

A lesbian, pro-eu, non-mp ? Can see her getting voted in by the Tory crinklies !

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Everything's possible. You don't like her because she's Scottish and female. She would tartan your arse for you ;).

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I wouldnae ride her in tae battle ;)

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Actually think she's ok (for a Tory !), which is a sure sign she's not for the top job ;)
She's far too sensible to take it anyway.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Och, d'ya nae like a challenge wee papa smut :)?
Aha, you're on the turn the noo :)

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Looks like the donors are getting restless as well:

Times link added for those with access.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Yeah and it could well happen. It seems to have been ramping up for a week or two now. I just think their expectations into what will happen next as misguided. We're less than a year into what could be a 5 year Parliament. Just over a year until the official Brexit date.

Is now really the time to change leader and what makes them think the next leader will not have challenges to their authority in this minority government? Will the country forgive the Conservative party descending back into their usual melodrama whilst Brexit talks are ongoing losing us further time and further authority? How long can the leader expect to govern before another election?

As you said it's a recipe for Corbyn to be PM. Seems a better idea to let May handle Brexit and then appoint someone untainted by that process.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

7th February is a key date according to ITV's Robert Peston.
https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/p...89934627997939

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Gotta hand it to these Government infighters. They may be wealthy enough to not care if the country loses out economically because of Brexit but they can be quite amusing when stabbing their fellow ministers in the back. :D Take this tweet from Robert Peston:
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/95...=244+272699409

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

fixed that for you, no thanks required :p:

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

All you have done is to "correct" Andrew's post? :nono:

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Mutiny in the ranks. :erm:

(Being reported in other media outlets)

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Ok so whose the most senior minster that isn't in the cabinet?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Political cowards whatever political colour they espouse will always hide behind their petticoats and make sure someone else does the dirty deed..

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Yeah, stick the knife in whilst she's out of the country, how Tory ! My bet in on Dr Fox, hes a weasel...

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Here are all the minsters: https://www.gov.uk/government/ministers

I think you can rule out the cabinet but not those who attend cabinet. The Sun is specific in the language it used and a minister who attends cabinet is not in the cabinet.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

It boils down to one of two as the Sun specifically states...

"The respected Tory MP has told allies he is close to resigning..."

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Pick a card, these attend cabinet but are not in it:

Leader of the House of Commons
Lord President of the Council Andrea Leadsom MP 2017–present

Chief Secretary to the Treasury Elizabeth Truss MP 2017–present
Chief Whip in the House of Commons

Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury Julian Smith MP 2017–present

Attorney General Jeremy Wright QC MP 2014–present

Minister of State for Immigration Caroline Nokes MP 2018–present

Minister of State for Climate Change and Industry Claire Perry MP 2017–present

Wiki

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The Sun just said they're not in the cabinet so it could be anyone who attends cabinet or not. Alan Duncan is my guess

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Corbyn will not win the next election but there is a very real chance that May could lose the next election. Same result in the end...

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

A weak minority government is the most likely outcome come the next election.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

That's what happened at the last election, anyway.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Note the last three posts were moved from Brexit thread to here but I used incorrect option and lost the posts, so I have manually added who said what with the Author. Apologies but they have a new time stamps, if the Authors are wondering time of posts etc. Must drink more coffee... :D :blush: :tired:

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I was confused where my comment went! I was starting to doubt myself there. Thanks for moving, it is deffo more relevant here.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

There's no chance of that unless there's an unexpected snap election.

Theresa May is the only person to conduct the Brexit negotiations without alienating one side or the other. Once that is done, they will elect a new leader.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

It's her own side she seems to alienate most. Will the Tories ever stop fighting each other? There is the country to run after all, and that Brexit thing to deal with too... Somehow I think ambition in Tory party will come before country, 'plus ca change'....

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

If you think the Conservatives are at each other's throats, how would you describe Labour's problems under Corbyn, then?

He could never form a government because nobody would want to serve in his Cabinet!

The arguments taking place from factions in the government are magnified because TM has no majority in the Commons. This gives every Conservative much more power to get their way because every vote counts. We saw the same thing in the Callaghan government in the 1970s.

Sorry, but the argument that the government is in chaos really doesn't wash. If it was we'd never have got through Phase I of the Brexit negotiations, would we?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

We got through phase 1 because we gave the EU everything it wanted ! We blinked first. Our hand is weak and so is our Government.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Did we? I don't recall the government agreeing to the £100 billion they were asking for - did I miss something?

In the end, we are leaving the EU with a two year (or thereabouts) implementation period, we are leaving the Common Market and we are seeking a customs agreement. We want smooth movement of goods, a trade and services agreement, no more free movement of people and freedom to make our own laws.

That is what Theresa wants to achieve and she will be measured against that. As to whether we are still under ECJ jurisdiction during the implementation period, that is neither here nor there really as it is only temporary, but we will get some kind of protection or say over new laws that would affect us adversely during that time.

The money has already been agreed in principle at about £40bn, which is a fair sum given our obligations and commitments, but remember that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed. After all, Barnier himself said so!

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

208 Labour MP's voted against abolishing Stamp Duty for first time buyers tonight (That would help young people trying to get on the property ladder).

I thought Labour were suppose to be the party representing the young.... let that sink in...

What happened to the in the 'for the many, not the few.' Bloody cretins that Labour are. :afire:

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Except it wouldn't help them get on the ladder, let that sink in

There was a vote tonight?

https://news.sky.com/story/hammond-f...ments-11139538

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Rachel Reeves has not got a clue. Except it would help them. How can it not?

Stamp duty being abolished, if house prices are a certain price, is a big win for first time buyers...

£125,001-£250,000 @ 2% rate threshold between either £2,500 and £5,000 Stamp duty.

£5,000 is a lot of money saved that can be spent on new moving in costs, furniture etc.

On November 22nd 2017 the Chancellor announced in the Budget...

Abolishing stamp duty land tax (SDLT) on homes under £300,000 for first-time buyers from 22 November 95% of first-time buyers who pay stamp duty will benefit.

First-time buyers of homes worth between £300,000 and £500,000 will not pay stamp duty on the first £300,000. They will pay the normal rates of stamp duty on the price above that. This will save £1,660‎ on the average first-time buyer property.

80% of people buying their first home will pay no stamp duty.

There will be no relief for those buying properties over £500,000.

Those 208 Labour MPs were essentially opposing the above budget measures that were announced.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

What first time buyer is paying between 300k and 500k for their first home? The more I hear and think about it, the more i think they're right this is little more than a gimmick and I imagine it was a gimmick when Labour came up with it to and the best answer to the crisis was John Mann's imo at the end of the article

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

But having no Stamp Duty to pay, if buying a £150,000 house. Is still money in the first time buyers hand. Not a gimmick. Labour will have to tax folk to death to pay for their large borrowing needs. Thankfully, let’s hope they never get in power.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

But if it puts the price up on a 150k home by 0.3% it's going to be taking money out of those very hands.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The problem is the lack of supply driving up house prices beyond what is affordable. The Stamp duty cut is good but it will quickly cause prices to rise so that the sellers get the benefit of the cut, not the buyers. The breathing room giving by the cut will only give people more money to bid a higher base price for the house.

The main impact of the cut will be to ensure the market keeps growing for a bit longer. If they didn't do that house prices would stall sooner. It's the same as all the other government schemes, they just allow people to get into more debt or get some money from the government to put into the housing market. None of it helps with the main issue.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Lord Ashcroft latest research regarding the forthcoming 2018 London elections.

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2018/03...don-elections/

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I guess if they go under they've achieved their first aim of getting us unchained from the rotting EU corpse.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The rotting corpse that has a higher GDP Annual Growth Rate than the USA, Japan, Australia, Brazil, Switzerland, Russia, and the UK?

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Labour's lead over Conservatives surges to 7% in the latest opinion poll by Survation.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politi...urges-12165233

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Seems to be an outlier...

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

My reading of how things are standing are the Conservatives are trusted more on the economy and one or two other areas whilst Labour are trusted more on the NHS and several others areas as well whilst in terms of their leaders Theresa May's reputation was severely damaged during the General Election campaign and she has found it very hard to change that public perception of her whilst Jeremy Corbyn is popular among the younger voters he is not liked or trusted by older voters and he has found it equally hard to change that perception of him.

Personally l think we are highly likely to end up in hung parliament territory come the next General Election which will make it even more difficult then it is now to get things through parliament with regards to important business..

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Assuming that this Parliament runs its full course, we should have a positive reaction from the public on the result of Brexit negotiations and a change of Leader. Add to that the improving economy (at last, we are starting to bring debt down), these figures should change radically in favour of the Conservatives.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I doubt the public will be happy with the £2bn we've spent on Brexit which could have been spent on the NHS and helped bankrupt Conservative councils. Nor will they believe that we will sign free trade deals with the USA, Russia etc so I suspect that positive reaction may be some time coming. ;)
https://www.ft.com/content/5a47caec-...e-cc62a39d57a0

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

You know as well as I do, Andrew, that you need to look no further than the Labour Party to remember who, ultimately, is responsible for austerity in this country.

£2bn is well worth paying to extracate ourselves from the disaster that is the EU. The next downturn will see more EU countries struggling and needing bailouts. We don't want to get embroiled in that - which will cost a darn sight more than £2bn.

First you complain that the Conservatives are not doing their homework on Brexit, then you complain because they obviously are!

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Re-read my post Old Boy. You will see it says nothing about criticising the Government for its preparations. We were both discussing the public's attitude at the next election. My post says "I doubt the public will be happy with the £2bn we've spent on Brexit which could have been spent on the NHS and helped bankrupt Conservative councils."

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

That's nothing compared with the benefits of leaving the EU, Andrew. Anyway, I don't believe the eventual savings made will go to the NHS. Our health and social care services need a total re-think and overhaul. No more throwing good money after bad.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

There are no savings and the EU will get to make new trade deals with countries like Australia whilst we're still arguing over the Irish border!

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Of course there will be savings. Although we will end up using some of that money to continue those grants, etc that we wish to keep paying (for example, subsidies to farmers).

You seriously underestimate the scope we have for new trade deals and you greatly overestimate the loss in trade we will experience by leaving the EU. But I suppose that only the reality of what actually happens in the end will shake you from this chronic negativity that seems to have consumed you. I am sure you will be pleasantly surprised in the end, Andrew, but I don't think anyone can say anything to you to get you to look at the disadvantages of staying in and the advantages of pulling out.

I had great expectations of Europe when we joined the Common Market but it has become a bureaucratic nightmare which has resulted in a disincentive to enterprise. You've only got to look at the new General Data Protection Regulation that comes into effect in May to understand the impact this organisation of Eurocrats is having on small and medium sized businesses, and even the voluntary sector. This bunch of wreckers will completely stifle innovation, enthusiasm and risk taking, thus sucking the wealth out of economies.

We will be well out of it, believe me!

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The new GDPR stuff is already unsettling people who manage forums like this one, it's getting to be ridiculous when you think of all the data being gathered & sold by the 'big' boys anyway :rolleyes:

I started a general motor insurance quote online the other day, just for a rough figure of what my daughter would pay for a 1.25 fiesta . . . all went well until they 'required' my email address and phone number. Bugger that, just let the computer put a figure up on the web page . .

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

That request for your details is nowt to do with GDPR and everything to do with the company chasing you if you don't take up the policy they've quoted for.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I'm not saying it is GDPR, I'm merely mentioning that everyone suddenly 'needs' your email address, home address and phone numbers. In some cases it can be justified (but all they get is my spam email address, nothing more), in other cases I simply close the page down as I consider them to be fishing for info they don't need.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

I don't even give them a spam email address, just make it and tel no up, they need none of this to give a quote. (and use a browser 'private mode'). Even address - as long as the postcode in your general locality that should be enough. Of course if you end up buying you'll need to supply details, but that will be a separate quote preferably via a cashback site, making sure all marketing opt outs are selected. People just give their details too easily and then are outraged when they are bombarded by junk mail and calls. Personal info is valuable and can, and is, sold.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

The good thing about GDPR is the company from 25/5 can only legally use your data for the purpose you allow it to be used for. It can't add a general use for direct marketing into its terms and conditions; this has to be explicitly requested and the individual needs to tick an explicit box to agree to it. A ticked box is not a default option.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

True, but the problem with the GDPR is the bureaucracy of it all. Instead of laying down how organisations have to process their data, they make every organisation, even small voluntary ones, set it out themselves. They have multiplied the amount of work required in setting this legislation by millions of times.

Why could they not have set out the requirements on the treatment of data in legislation, instead of requiring everyone to have a policy, and instead of having a privacy notice for every organisation, why don't they set out the principles in an annex?

It's a very large sledgehammer to crack a very small nut, actually, and it's yet another example of how much worse the red tape is within the EU.

...And don't get me started on the Acquired Rights Directive!

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

It all makes good sense to me. The world changes with technology and yes that means more legislation. Sorry, that's progress, we can't freeze ourselves in the 1970s as much as JC and other Brexiters would like us to.
But compared to the red tape that dealing with countries when outside the EU will entail, we've got it easy now.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Legislation does not have to be onerous, Andrew. This is way over the top, and as I said, they could achieve the same result by setting out approved practices in law.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

Hasn't been onerous for me, it's just an update to existing legislation. Plenty of consultants out there probably putting the fear of God into people. For most, a few principles will see them through. No need to nanny-state people.

Re: Government & Post Election Discussion
 

No, it's not. This is a new layer of red tape for small organisations to bear which was not there before. Small organisations did not have to issue privacy notices prior to this legislation, for example.

In any case, this is a perverse piece of legislation that requires all organisations to splurge out the same mantra that could have been set out in law.

I'm glad that you are comfortable with this, Andrew. Clearly, you are not trying to run a small business. I have already seen at first hand the disincentive that this has created.