Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Well at least we don't have the problems our ancestors did seeing as we managed to exterminate all the wolves and bears that once existed.They weren't concerned about preserving animals that were a danger to their communities and their livelihoods.

I'm wondering why foxes weren't exterminated too.Maybe it's something to do with the species ability to adapt to it's environment especially the human settlements.Other species don't seem to have the same adaptability.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Yes but one idiot isn't representative of everybody else.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I'm sorry Damien but a good many of those that supported the ban weren't thinking of the foxes welfare but of sticking it to the toffs.:erm:

I do however support the idea that in the 21st century we can really come up with a far more humane and effective way of controlling foxes.We have no compunction in calling in pest control when we have mice or rats or whatever so why is it different for a fox.Possibly their appearance is what makes some not able to view them as vermin.They look too much like a dog I suppose.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Some probably yes but not all. Certainly many New Labourites as they were wouldn't have had quite the same animosity to the 'toffs' as Old Labour anyway. Besides it's not help to presume more sinister motivations to your opponents unless it's clear that's what it was. ;) I mean on any issue you can find someone who comes at it from a dark place but we shouldn't make them the focus of the debates.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I'm fairly positive there were plenty of old labour masquerading as new labour in the last Government.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Yes, I would avoid the subject too...............if you're obviously wrong.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

No because it's pointless and off topic and quite frankly i don't give a toss .Fox hunting in the barbaric traditional way is banned ,every argument that pro hunters put forward has been trashed and proven wrong .There is no coherent argument to bring it back and it will never happen

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I'm not pro- hunting. It's irrelevant to me as it not a past time I am involved in.

However, I'm just pointing out what is more "barbaric" being killed instantaneously by a pack of dogs. Or being trapped for up to to 72 hrs and then shot in the head.

Also if I wanted to be emotive.................

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Is that what you really think it is all about?(pursuing a pastime) and once again like many more like you, money comes into it!!:argue:

---------- Post added at 23:59 ---------- Previous post was at 23:39 ----------

Pierre from dare me finks:dig:

---------- Post added 14-07-2013 at 00:06 ---------- Previous post was 13-07-2013 at 23:59 ----------

Surely you can't class fox hunters as 'ordinary people'!:(:(

---------- Post added at 00:37 ---------- Previous post was at 00:06 ----------

:disturbd::batty::sick::banghead::jk::nutter: Fox Hunters defined in an ordinary world!

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

How the hell is being chased to exhaustion and then torn apart instantaneous??,and as for my use of "emotive bollocks" then yes rubbing the blood of the dead fox across someones face is barbaric and shows fox hunting for what it is ,pure entertainment.I agree that snaring isn't ideal but if it is done well then there is less suffering .

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I must admit when I lived on a farm and used to kill foxes as. Needed I shot them and didn't use a snare.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I would say it's best way

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Weill I found it the quickest anyway.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Eyes to the left and:nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono ::nono::nono::nono::to the right

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I think the whole point is not killing foxes but how they go out.

Personality I think they're just vermin but I don't see the need to take pleasure out of it.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Steven D. Farmer Ph.D. on foxes................Adaptability, adapt to the changes that are happening! in other words cunning!

Never underestimate a fox and its way of beating the odds, they are far too intelligent for that, and that is one of the reasons they have to be shot by farmers etc, they know how to dodge the snare traps set for them, says it all really here here to the fox :beer:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I never underestimated a fox. That's why I used to shoot them when they needed it.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I have posted twice about electric fencing no one replied to either I think. Well foxes can sense the electronic impulses and they avoid the fences so as long as the fences avoid trees and things that the fox can use to jump over they avoid the area

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

:zzz:dilligaf1701 Excuse me love, you have to stand with a shot gun proudly in your hand whilst you look at a fox and shoot it, the unfortunate fox doesn't have a shot gun in its hand to defend itself ! all it did was used its intelligence to beat any traps and snares in the area, but if it makes you proud to come on the forums and admit that you shoot at animals in cold blood well that is up to you, especially if you can go to bed after and have a good nights sleep:rolleyes::geez:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

clearly you know little of foxes. yes I did go to sleep happy knowing my animal stock were not being torn to shreds by vermin.



---------- Post added at 09:49 ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 ----------

and just for reference that's shot not shoot. that's twice you've tried your mind games. if your going to try faking things at least put more effort into it.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

True, i am not a country girl, just a minority who doesn't believe in extinguishing nature, and if you were soooooooo worried about your animal stock, why didn't you provide adequate safety measures for them?:shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::shrug::sh rug::shrug::shrug:

---------- Post added at 09:56 ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 ----------

:naughty:Now now Dilligaf1701 ! Your claws that need attending to are beginning to hurt i think

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

You should know!

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Then maybe you need to get out and look at what happens instead of knocking people on this forum. I HAVE attended fox hunts and tried to stop them. I have seen what happens have you ???. So when i tell people there wrong its because I have had experience of going to the events and seeing it with my own eye's not just reading it of the internet and then thinking i am some sort of expert. YOU need to see what happens first hand and then you can start to put a proper argument across. Until then i will take anything you say with a pinch of salt.

You are starting to turn into what i expected you to turn into when i saw your first post on this forum.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Oo Sirius you must be psychic, but i know you are not you have been:dig:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Is this Toonlight's sister? :D

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I've never been to a hunt either as I don't think it's needed I always felt with the vermin problem myself.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I don't need to get out to see what happens, Damien comes to mind!!!!:grind:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Then how can you make an informed comment if all you have is what you have read in books and on the internet. :rolleyes:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Damien?

toenails?

talons?

if you don't make sense how do you expect people to understand you?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Mrs Osem must be using crystal larimar seen as she is a reflexologist:D

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

My comments were not aimed at you they are aimed at those who seem to think they know all about fox hunting when it sounds to me like they have never been to a hunt and therefor have not seen the barbarism that happens at them.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I know :tu: :-)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Someone in this thread is higher than i have ever been :LOL:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Dilligag1701 don't panic love, Dr Sirius is aiming at me, he is correct though, i haven't been to a fox hunt, why would i want to when i have done research into the blood sport!!

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Hunting's not my thing either, but I've shot or poisoned vermin as necessary in the past.

My objections to the ban are that it is an abuse of democratic principle, in that we are a liberal democracy and therefore the group in power at any given time has no business banning activities enjoyed by minorities as a means of attacking their beliefs or their way of life (or their social class, which we know for a fact was what drove some of the Labour MPs involved).

Furthermore the so called animal rights angle is highly contested - plenty of experts believe that hunting vermin with dogs is a more natural and healthy way of maintaining an ecological balance than random shooting. "fox hunting is cruel" simply is not settled science in the same way that "smoking kills" is. What constitutes cruel is a matter of philosophy as much as it is something that can be determined by measuring stress hormones in a laboratory.

The animal rights brigade mean well, but they are victims of woolly thinking. What is good for a non-sentient species should over-ride what is good for a non-sentient individual, precisely because the individual creatures are not self-aware beings in the way we define ourselves.

This issue was always driven by politics, with science used as a fig leaf. I believe a sufficiently large Tory majority after 2015 will result in its repeal.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

My research was done by ATTENDING the hunts and making an informed judgment from there.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Nope. Oddly enough her course contained nothing about crystals but a lot about physiology, pathology and anatomy.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Most hunt chases last twenty minutes and used to usually involve the fox escaping, now they have little chance of escaping thanks to the rifle or Mr eagle owl so there's even more blood to wipe across peoples faces and I thought we'd moved in from all those silly emotive and incorrect terms like ripped to pieces (except pisces). sirus who has actually been on hunts says he's seen both instant kills and mauling and I trust his word unlike these experts that have been routinely proven wrong throughout this thread.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Am no expert on the hunt for or against, but the law as it stands surely has huge enforcement problems?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Indeed every hunt was different and it was an evolving process for both sides when i used to get involved. It cannot be much different these days other than i hear it can be more violent between those for and against if they get too close to each other :(

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

:bigcry:No don't bring back the law to allow fox hunting

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Then get off your backside and go and help the people at each hunt that try to stop them.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Yes stop people from enjoying a legal pastime by trespassing on other peoples land, great plan

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Did i say trespass, i don't think so. Also the amount of hunts that go tally hooing across land they don't have permission to hunt on is ok then is it. Trust me there are farmers who dont want hunts on there land and the hunt heavies ether threatens him or the hunt just crosses it anyway.??? ;) :D

So is hunting foxes legal now ???

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

My understanding is that hunting foxes with dogs is still legal. Killing them with dogs is not.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

How else do they stop them without going on the land the hunt has permission to be on and yes hunting foxes is legal, never has not been so.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Very fine line on the law . I have not seen a hunt where the fox if cornered is not ripped apart by the dogs.

The magistrate or the judge are probably members of the hunt anyway so any case before them will always swing in favour of the hunt, just like the magistrate i faced when i broke the nose of a **** who attacked me with his riding crop. The punishment was well worth the knowledge that his nose would be bent for the rest of his life :LOL:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

:nutter:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

what was wrong with Sirius' suggestion?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

it's an age old british tradition

bring it back!


upwards of 750,000 animals get slaughtered in the UK each day that no one wants to think about and then tuck into meat dishes - it's all bar code stuff in the supermarket


its like the mentality in the Vietnam war


"cut them in half with a machine gun and then give them a band aid"


interestingly germany's national socialist party was the first European party to ban the practice largely associacted with toffery

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

How dare the Nazis ban age old British traditions. It's the EU all over again :mad:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

slightly off topic but they also banned the gotterdamerung component of Wagners ring cycle


As it implied a fall of the Reich


(am I getting Godwin or what ;))

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

For sure. You made a right hash of Götterdämmerung/Goetterdaemmerung

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

:nono:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

:nono:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Excellent input to this thread, we need more like that :rolleyes:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I hope not:sick:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I was posting about the lack of grownup input from you in this thread to be honest. You have not posted anything in this thread that helps constructively for or against fox hunting if you ask me.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

;)Sirius 'grow up' and all will be forgiven

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Yes but they are for FOOD not for sport and also they are not killed by dogs ripping them apart now are they, typical narrow-minded people come out with the animals who are killed for food argument.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

:clap:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Seen the conditions battery hens are kept in and the vast majority of fox hunts didn't used to end up with a fox being ripped apart. Millions of animals suffer appallingly but that's ok because it's food, a very few animals suffer but that's not of because it might form part of some one enjoying themselves and in Britain in 2013 that's just not on.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

How many more stories will we have to hear about before some thing is done

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/428...-jaws-of-a-fox

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I would have no problem with a properly controlled cull as is happening with the badger cull, Men with guns going out and humanely killing the animals instead of ripping them to pieces with dogs for fun and sport. However the fox hunters do not want that do they as they cannot have there barbaric sport and fun at a weekend.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Just imagine if all the fox's became wiped out what would the red coated red necks turn to for their so called pleasure.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Its not a class thing there are Neanderthals from all walks of life take part in the sport of ripping an defenseless animal to shreds with dogs

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

You do realise that more foxes died on the first day of hunting after the ban than had been killed in the entire season before don't you. There were many reasons for banning, preserving the fox population wasn't among them.

---------- Post added at 18:40 ---------- Previous post was at 18:39 ----------

That's exactly what it was about for some, Tony Banks for example didn't even try and hide the fact, it was all about class war for him.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

whatever the reasons some people had for banning fox hunting it worked ,hunt membership is up and more foxes get killed by "other means" .What we need to do is stop the fox rescue groups from saving the buggers when they get knocked over by cars .

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

What we really need to do is to get the morons to stop feeding them in gardens

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

that will be start

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Once they have killed 30,000 badgers, I wonder if the TB virus will go down in the genetically bred cattle population!

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I have no idea, however what i do know is that the badgers killed as part of the cull are being dispatched very quickly and without being chased across fields and then ripped to shreds by a pack of dogs whilst Neanderthals scream and laugh at their deaths and pat each other on the backs for the distress they have created for the poor fox.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Its a bit creepy when the morons wipe the fox's blood on the faces of the newbies first hunt.

I am a country born lad and have always hated any killing of animals. It's the human race which is the pest.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Some idiots don't think like you, people who go hunting like this need to be hunted and ripped a part by a dog, I would cheer that and give the dog a treat.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I agree, there's a woman who lives across the road from me feeds the foxes by leaving them food in the back garden. When I come in from work in the early hours I often see 1/2 foxes crossing the street nipping down other residents gardens.

I've asked her on many occasions to stop feeding them as they're a hunting animal and will find food anywhere.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

These "urban" fox attacks have nothing to do with the fox hunting ban.

When will people on this site be able to differentiate between the two?

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

There are two big questions on the subject of the culling of badgers and fox hunting (and yes, the whingers back).

On the badger front, these badgers pass on diseases to cattle, which goes onto the food chain - l agree within reason.

On the fox hunting - this l believe should be left to the farming world. They know what is happening in their world and should be allowed to do it. Foxes are vermin to me. And wasn't there a newspaper recently saying that a fox tried to kill a dog.

It should be left to the countryside to deal with.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

The point with foxhunting for me is that the legislation as it stands is badly thought out, badly worded, and very very tough to enforce....

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Nice line Heero but the Cats line is not correct strictly speaking:

TB incidence is low in cats and dogs. Because bovine TB is a zoonotic disease (ie it can be spread from animal to human), where TB in pets is disclosed, AHVLA or private vets will inform the Local Health Authority so that any risks to human contacts can be investigated.

Treatment of TB infected pets is not recommended because of the risk this presents of transmitting the disease to other animals and/or the pet’s owners.

AHVLA will undertake a pathological examination and bacteriological culture from the animal – the costs of this will be met by Defra. If notification of a positive culture comes from a private or Public Health Laboratory Service laboratory, they are encouraged to submit samples to AHVLA.

If TB is reported in a farm cat or dog, AHVLA will instigate TB testing of any cattle on the farm and other, potentially exposed cattle, on neighbouring premises.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

To me its the way in which they are killed, also they don't commit as much trouble as humans do but if you killed a human with a dog ripping it apart then you'd be done for murder because thats what fox hunting is MURDER, if I was to ever run in to a hunting back the next stop for would be court for GBH.
Please can someone tell me whats fun about watching an animal get ripped apart but no one pro fox hunting will all you'll get is but they need to be controlled, if they need to be controlled then do it without violence and having a poor animal suffer for you enjoyment Sick *******s the lot of them.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

You are incorrect. "Murder" is the killing of one human by another, contrary to common law. The term does not, and has never, applied to the killing of any animal by a human.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

So how do we look at " killing an animal for sport and enjoyment " thats what fox hunting is all about. They chase a defenseless animal to the point it can not run any further. They set a pack of dogs on it and get a perverse sense of enjoyment and maybe even a little bit of a lift somewhere ;) from watching that killing. Having then ripped that defenseless animal to pieces they then pat each other on the back for having killed a defenseless animal, then smear the blood of that animal on the faces of any children they allowed to watch that killing of a defenseless animal, and all this in the name of SPORT :rolleyes:.

Its getting to the point but not just yet where i will start to post links to the websites and videos showing the hunt members jumping and down, shouting obscenities at any anti hunt supporters nearby whilst also laughing at them as they carry out the killing of these defenseless animals. I think those people who have not seen what these animals who call themselves human do as they kill need to see it.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Call it what it is. Blood sport. Campaign against it if you feel moved to, accept that other people will disagree with you.

And, above all, if you insist on referring to the people who do this as "animal", "subhuman", "Neanderthal", etc etc etc, you can't feign shock or surprise when they shout rude words back at you.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Indeed, been there, done it, got the brushes and have given back just the same including a broken nose for an idiot on a horse who attacked me with his riding crop. Its a long fall off a horse and a big thud as they hit the floor :LOL: :D

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

I know. You have told that old war story in this thread more than a couple of times already. ;)

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Indeed there is an echo here :LOL:

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Ever seen a pack of Hyena's or wolves hunt?

Those heartless animals do exactly the same thing.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

We do and did the same, persistence hunting was one of the first forms of hunting and was so effective it's still being used today

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Exactly, many mammoths will agree.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

That was and is for food not some perverted form of gratification and sport

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

The end result and impact on the hunted, however, is exactly the same.

There is no difference.

It is the same as being outraged by chemical weapons and being ambivalent to drone strikes.

Hypocrisy, in this world is without end.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Exactly, doubt it made much difference to the fox in the end he's still dead, difference now is of course he has a lot, lot more chance of ending up dead on a hunt now than he did a few years back.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Not if these people keep doing what they do http://hsa.enviroweb.org/

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

The death rate has increased in spite if their efforts, perhaps they should ask the fox what he'd rather out run, the hounds or a bullet

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

nobody was ever denying the need to cull foxes ,just the way it was done .Fox hunting in the the traditional style was grossly inefficient and damaging,obviously now whatever method they are using be it guns or snares it is working.As i have said in this thread many times it's a win win situation

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

Shotguns and snares aren't effective, they inflict more suffering than the hounds and an eagle owl flying right through something doesn't exactly sound that humane either.

Re: Bring Back Fox Hunting
 

can't see what point you're trying to make .Obviously they are effective because you said more foxes are being killed :shrug: