Re: smoking and the pub
 

I thought that earlier in this thread you wanted a complete ban on smoking in all pubs whether they served food or not. You implied that even if there was only one pub that allowed smoking then it would restrict your choice. There are many pubs which serve food which have segregated areas for smokers and non-smokers. If some of these stop serving food then they may abandon the seperate areas, particularly if they find smoking areas are packed full and no smoking areas have few people in them. There is an abundance of pubs where there are segregated areas but with no physical division between them. In many of them there is no smell of smoke at all in the no smoking areas. In pubs where smoking is banned completely there is often a group of smokers who have nipped outside for a smoke. Outside means that they are just out of the door and you have to pass through the clouds of smoke to get inside. Also some of the smokers just have half of a cigarette, nip the glowing end off and return it to the packet for later. The smell that they bring back into the pub is usually much worse than the smell that would have been there if they had been smoking inside.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Well I'm in absolutely no doubt it will happen.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Look here for a definition of a private members club, it is NOT a social club or a sports club or a British Legion, or a working mens club it is a private members club

www.eoc.org.uk/Default.aspx?page=15674&lang=en

Re: smoking and the pub
 

The club I belong to is a private members club.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Good, if a majority of your members vote against not having a smoking ban then you will be able to smoke.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

And on and on it goes. This one refuses to lie down

If only, if only this much energy and enthusiasm could be seen in other areas then I'm sure the world would be a nicer place :confused: :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Ideally I do want a total ban. But if smokers are insistent enough that this restricts their freedom, then I suggest a sealed smoking room.
Again, a non-smoking area is a pub is like a non-weeing area in a swimming pool.
Well, rude people will be rude people. Besides I would rather spend 2 seconds walking through a cloud of smoke than 2 hours sitting in a smoky pub.
That smell would be of minimal consequence to people sitting any distance at all away from the smoker. Plus the smell isn't the main problem.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Is this serious? :D http://tobacalert.com/

I've just got this image of non-smokers waving this around wherever they go :erm:

Take a look at the quick Guide. This shows some serious commitment http://tobacalert.com/quickguide.html

Re: smoking and the pub
 

And the staff?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

In the interests of balance I would just like to present some facts about tobacco and the ****s that run the tobcco industry. Happy reading.

**** and I smoke :Yikes:

http://www.newint.org/issue369/contents.htm

http://www.newint.org/issue369/facts.htm

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:LOL:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

They can leave at any time they choose.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

That is a hopelessly inaccurate caricature of the way people find and change jobs in this country, and I think the only reason it has popped up again and again in this thread, is that the rights of bar staff not to breathe in smoke is the ultimate deal-clincher for anti-smoking legislation, above all the other extremely good reasons for having it.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

No they can't, because the staff are more than likely all chavs with no education, no propspects of a proper job, therefore bar work (or other such menial employment) is the only work available to them.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Please don't flame, OB. It's beneath you.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Just reitterating what you were saying the other day :shrug:

Have a fab weekend all :wavey:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

No, you're reiterating your somewhat slanted misinterpretation of what I was saying the other day. And you know that's the case, because my post explaining it to you appeared right below it.

Nice weekend to you too. :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Ah, now I understand the freedom of choice argument that people have been going on about! :p: :D
__________________

Ah, but they're not as bad as ex-bar staff who wander around with a huge bag of McCain's on their shoulders ;) :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

You seem to misunderstand, these private members clubs have been in existence since the 1700s' when gentlemen squires lived in their country seats and came up to London to a parliamentary session or to see their daughters presented at court or to tend their financial affairs.
They required somewhere to eat and sleep and conduct their business affairs whilst residing in premises which reflected their status and needs.
Hotels and other lodgings were very poor quality so Gentlemens Clubs were established to act as a home from home for gentry in London. These evolved into the Private Members Clubs, they usually have banqueting rooms for entertaining clients, private dining rooms, a smoking room which is usually also a games room for cards and snooker to which ladies are not normally allowed.
As for the "chav" staff, that is a ludicrous surmise, the club servants are hand picked wth the posts being handed down from father to son through the generations.
I have no idea what the pay rates are but I am sure they are well above the minimum rate plus tips.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I think O/b was being sarcaustic - you need to refere back into the sands of time, circa 500 posts ago or something, to see from where it all arises.

BTW all, is this an endurance event? And will there be random dope tests?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Yes, all we need is a random dope !

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Shouldn't take long for one to come along!

And with that, I'm off to the pub to kill myself with Guinness and second hand smoke. :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Your actual meaning was chrystal clear to the large majority of us Chris, worry not!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:bump:

It seems Patricia Hewitt is going to vote against her own department's policy on the smoking ban when it gets to Parliament - Blair has decided there should be a free vote, leaving Hewitt free to campaign for the total ban she always wanted.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4600910.stm

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Well with the definite risks of passive smoking I for one hope this comes off.A total ban will save lives or in the least improve the health of say non smokers who work in a pub.I don't mind smokers but I do mind them smoking near my daughter.Most reasonable smokers will accept the dangers of passive smoking and any reasonable person will not want to put others at risk

Re: smoking and the pub
 

What about the rights of the cigarette? ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Depends whether it's a human cigarette, surely?

:disturbd:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I really hope this brings a total ban. I think this chap sums up why I feel like I do about smoking. He is a paramedic and blogs.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:(

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I see this type of thing regularly. The lack of the appreciation of reality and lack of common sense.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Touching no doubt, smoking is bad.

However its not just snoking that affects asthma in adults as well as children so lets not pretend it is huh?

Lets not preach to others when the very core of our civilisation, industry and the internal combustion engine, can cause as much if not more damage than a cigarette.

I have smoked on and off since I was 17.
I went to join a gym yesterday and my PEF reading was off the scale, compared to my non smoking partner who could only manage 350, I hit 900 plus.
Thats 900 litres of air an hour apparently, so much for smoking affecting the lungs.

I live in a heavily industrialised area, my parents both smoked, my mother longer than my father, they have both now quit. I smoke, and yet I can see no physical problems with myself. Doesnt mean its ok to smoke I understand that, but some people are more suseptible than others.

And yet we have children, many of whom live in smoke free houses, in the countryside and suffer from asthma, isnt it about time we looked for other causes other then blaming the cigarette for all childhood illnesses such as asthma?

Asthma was a lot more common when I was gorwing up than it is now, I know of only 2 children who suffer from it, yet at school most kids carried an inhaler.

I know I sound like I am defending smoking I'm not, but lets just lay of it a little bit huh? Its not solely to blame for the illnesses in our kids.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I cant see it working though - like fox hunting I suspect there will be mass civil disobendience in some more working class boozers. I think phasing it in by a partial ban followed by a full ban when medical evidence proves it has saved lives might have been easier.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

you got plenty of time to get caught by something caused by smoking,do not be apathetic to the fact you can shift 900 litres of air, your only young and do not know what might happen.
Passive smoking kills fact
Most of the chemicals in a cigarette are actually exhausted into the environment and those in close proximity probably get poisoned more than the smoker (by poisoning i mean toxins not the obvious damage hot smoke does to capillaries etc)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

yeah and my mates dad was a smoker all his life - something like 40 a day - he died after the docs discovered a 'dark cloud' in his lung - where the cancer showed on the x-ray. I'd suggest a gym PEF reading isn't enough to check the current quality of your lungs - dont kid yourself that you aren't doing damage when you smoke especially that comment 'so much for smoking affecting the lungs' - I believe you aren't superman and therefore if you put smoke in your lungs eventually one day you will regret it.

http://www.lunguk.org/smoking-and-your-lungs.asp

Re: smoking and the pub
 

No, let's NOT lay off smoking. Just because there are other contributing factors to asthma does not mean I should stop warning people about the dangers of it.

I never was "pretending" it was. Of course there are other things that cause and worsen the condition.

However not smoking is just plain common sense when you do have asthma.

You appear to contradict yourself here.

What is the benefit of "laying off it". It's clear that there are some parents who have no concept of the damage it can do or are seriously deluded or dumb. I feel the need for evangelism is great.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

timewarrior, here's the Forest pro smoking propoganda site

http://www.forestonline.org/output/Page297.asp

have a look around and see if you can find anything that supports your comment re 'so much for smoking affecting the lungs' - if anyone can find you a get out clause then it'll be them! so if they can't disprove the science then you need to reconsider.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

timewarrior2001, I don't know why you should take a one off gym PEFV spirometer reading and conclude that a) smoking ain't affecting your lungs and b) the hundreds of evidence based medical papers that have been produced showing the harmful effects of smoking are pants; but I don't think you are being realistic.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

FFS No wonder this place gets people irate,

I suggest you ALL re read my post, not once did i say smoking was not bad for you.
Not once did I say it was perfectly OK to smoke.
Not once did I say I was pro smoking.

Yet you all jumped ot the same conclusion.

I simply stated that a ban on smoking will make little difference to the incidents and deaths from childhood asthma. Mainly because the ban will be in the pub and in public buildings, not spaces. Pretty much like Dublin, where you see hundreds of people smoking in the street, I doubt it has encouraged many people to give up, it simply makes them smoke outside making the buildings and surrounding street look awfull.


Actually read what I said, It was neither pro smoking nor anti smoking, my post was about the what if's the fact that smoking kills, when in reality it should be smoking MAY kill, smoking MAY cause cancer, smoking MAY damage your unborn baby.

I never once said the childs death wasnt due to smoking, I simply pointed out that smoking MAY not have been the contributing factor and someone elses hatred of smoking is not an unbiased oppinion make.

Whilst we all still drive our cars, whilst we all still depend upon industry belching out tons and tons of carbon and god only knows what else into our atmosphere, I am going to class each and every one of you hypocrites.

What do I class myself as? Well as I dont give smokers a hard time, whilst I smoke yet dont around children and try to avoid crowded places when doing so, I certainly wont class myself as a hypocrite.

Maybe I should go round goving non smokers a hardtime, see how they like it.

Perhaps its time to campaign so vigourously against smack heads and all other junkie ****, perhaps we should ban alcohol cos its addictive and causes health problems, where the **** are we going to stop????

Re: smoking and the pub
 

er ok, so you do accept smoking affects your lungs?

YES or NO?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Looking at the children who have asthma that I know they all come from non-smoking families. Could it be that living in a too clean environment makes people more susceptible to certain illnesses and diseases? More children these days suffer from respiratory problems although the percentage of people smoking is falling. Is it the case that there are more pollutants in the air from sources other than tobacco smoke that is causing this increase or is it a weakening of the immune system? Smoking will naturally get the blame though as it is the easy target.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

an interesting concept but what does the science 'facts' say about it?

http://hcd2.bupa.co.uk/fact_sheets/M...ts/asthma.html

interestingly Bupa dont list 'smoking' or 'exposure to passive smoke' under the causes, but your concept is there:-

"there is a theory (called the hygiene hypothesis) that people in developed countries are no longer exposed to the kinds of infections they would have had to deal with in the past so the immune system over-reacts to harmless substances"

---------- Post added at 17:31 ---------- Previous post was at 17:30 ----------

although it does say "If you smoke, you should give up as this is good for your health and will improve your asthma symptoms".

---------- Post added at 17:32 ---------- Previous post was at 17:31 ----------

a quick search on yahoo for 'smoking causes asthma' brought this up:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1562147.stm

---------- Post added at 17:34 ---------- Previous post was at 17:32 ----------

the conclusion appears to be exposure to smoke makes you more likely to develop Asthma/respiratory problems.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

In the last six months where I used to work, two men died.

One had been off due to cancer treatment, he died of a heart attack cause by chemo (apparently this can happen).

another (somebody I would talk to daily) feeling ill when for test was given two weeks due to cancer, he lasted under that. (his brother & father died of the same thing).

All these had ONE thing in common.

They smoked, come rain or shine, the would stand outside in all weathers, (smoking was NOT allowed in the building, doing so was a sackable offence) just to have a ciggy.

I also have lost two grandparents due to smoking they both had strokes, which were caused by smoking. and both took about 6 months to die.

So IMHO smoking should be banned outright, total and complete, except in you home.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

but if it's not banned in the home then what about thoughtless parents who smoke in front of their kids - what protection is there for the kids 'human rights' to a safe environment?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I do agree but it would be impossible to police, so let them smoke there.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I'd say if you put your kids in danger via smoking in front of them then you should be hauled up in front of a magistrate for doing it but it would be one of those laws which would be probably impossible to gain a conviction on.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I never jumped to that conclusion.

You said

Therefore I asked you...

Not true. Smoking Kills, smoking causes cancer, smoking does damage your lungs. FACT. The issue is......not in everyone.

So from your comments about "so much for smoking the lungs", what is your response to the question below?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

YES ok?

Smoking has been proven to affect some people and not others.

Therefore whilst smoking may kill Mr A, it may not kill Miss B, therefore it is satisfsactory to deduce smoking MAY kill.

Lets take a look at some of the things, including the obvious Lung cancer.

Mr roy Castle, Never smoked, succumbed to lung cancer, thought to be through passive smoking, although it is not determined that this was the case.
Miss Emma Brown (21 years of age), succumbed to Cancer of several types, one being lung cancer, never smoked in her life.
Mr X (future father in law, smoked since the age of 14, he is now 58, recently had a toe amputated possibly becuase of the effects of smoking although his doctor would not state it for a fact.
Asthma, millions of people suffer from asthma...however take a look at this:-

Taken from http://www.theallergysite.co.uk/asthma.html

this may coincide with the steady rise of people suffering allergies, and could be interpreted as mentioned before, that because we all now try and life in such sterile environments our bodies are over reacting to the slightest thing. Asthma whilst possibly triggered by cigarette smoke can be just as easily triggered by dust, animals, food stuffs, you name it, anything anyone can have an allergic reaction too.

So as I said before, whilst any death is sad, especially in a child, we must not take one persons crusade against the cigarette to be gospel. This child May have suffered an attack because of the parents smoking, it could just be simply an unfortunate event that occured because the child had an illness also.
The fact the childrens parents smoked when the news of their childs death was broken to them hardly portrays them in a bad light as was so obviously intended. Smoking helps people remain calm, you see anyone thats a smoker or ex smoker, in times of high stress they either light up or as I have witnessed many a time, find themselves comtemplating smoking again.

So whilst I and the medical profession acknowledge that smoking is bad, I will not houn smokers, I will respect their rights to do what they please in this free country, I wont simply blame parents for killing their child because they smoke. I will look at the evidence and I shall make my own mind up. I still do NOT think that the parents smoking killed the child in the example given.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

thank god for that!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Speaking as an ex-smoker, when I did smoke, I smoked in front of whoever was around me at the time, my kids, their friends, my wife other family members, Joe Bloggs etc... it’s not that I didn’t care, I did, it’s just that I cared more about my fix of nicotine that the ciggie’s gave me at that particular moment in time than anything else.

One day I just started to think more about the effects that my smoking has on me and others, something inside me clicked, seeing my parents and my wife’s parents and brother die prematurely from smoking related illnesses made me think long and hard about what I had to do, and boy was it going to be hard! Talk about cold turkey! I'd been smoking since I started secondary school some 32 years ago I've not smoked for around 6 years now, so I was a regular smoker for 26 years. There is no easy way to give up, you just have to get it into your head that this isn’t going to be easy... it’s probably going to be one of the hardest things your likely to do in your life. Also get into your head that it’s a battle, a battle between good and evil, and the evil had me gripped in its tight fist for 26 years!

First thing I did was choose a date to stop and also bought 1 week of patches. The patches do work, they help take away more than half the cravings I was having, I know this because on the 8th day of not smoking, I didn’t have a patch and my cravings went sky high... I was snapping at everyone who came in contact with me plus I’d eaten most of the contents of the cupboards and fridge! But I stuck with it, always thinking I am the boss in this fight! No way am I going to let them evil coffin nails beat me... no way! So almost 6 years later the cravings have almost faded away, but I must admit every time I see someone light-up a cig, it brought back the feelings of just how good it felt to inhale that first drag of beautiful nicotine filled smoke! But that doesn’t last long, I think of all the benefits giving it up has given me like feeling healthier, I’ve saved thousands of £££’s , I don’t smell like an ash tray anymore, neither do my family and house, it hasn’t just benefitted me and my family though, its also benefitted good old Joe Bloggs. :)

I must say just one more thing... DONT GIVE UP THE FIGHT!!

My apologies for this post going slightly off topic.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:tu::tu::tu::tu: Well done Dodger444.

You are an inspiration to me. I am a smoker and i'm in the process of getting into the right frame of mindto quit. I will be a non smoker in the next few days. Fact. :D

My main reason for stopping is that i have a 2 year old son, and reading articles like Salu's post make me feel i HAVE to do it- even if the liklihood of it affecting him that much is being contended on this thread.

Still, i like smoking, but i'm ashamed to call myself a smoker:dozey:

---------- Post added at 22:38 ---------- Previous post was at 22:35 ----------

Forgot to add, i tried stopping last year and failed, all the more reason to not fail this time! When i need more inspiration i'll look to your post and many other inspiring words HERE

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Neither should we portray smoking as only a possible risk. It is a significant risk bordering on likelihood.

There is indeed evidence suggesting this. Also evidence suggesting that because children these days have such easy access to antibiotics may be causing or contributing to asthma.

Smoking will always affect you. It may not be the cause of your death though.

They may not have caused the asthma but they almost definately will have contributed to her death. Smoke in the event of an asthma attack is highly detrimental. Believe me. I treat people regularly who are having asthma attacks.....

Re: smoking and the pub
 

It's interesting to note that people are happy to exercise most parts of their body, but totally ignore the immune system, which surely needs excerise as much as any other part of the body.

Not saying people should go and deliberately expose themselves to disease, but surely having things too sterile won't help.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Very true, children from very clean & sterile housholds seem to get more illnesses.

Whatever happened to mud pies?


One thing I notice since becoming a non smoker, whenever I have been out to the pub I have a phlemmy cough the next morning.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

That's because the little hairs (villi) in your trachea that fibrillate slightly in order to bring up excess phlegm away from your lungs are paralysed by smoke. Usually you then swallow the phelgm....maybe that's too much detail? :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

either that or the Kabab on the way home causes it! ;)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Naah in my younger days after a night out drinking & smoking the inside of my mouth needed a blowtorch and scraper :Yikes:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Good. It's the only way for it to work fairly.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Agreed, all we need now is to bring cigs into line with alcohol regarding age/purchasing. :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I thought they weren't voting til 10pm? That's what the news flash just said on BBC1:shrug:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Nowt worse than an ex smoker preaching is there :(

It aint gonna happen where i live. Any pub that tried to get regulars stubbing out would soon close due to lack of custom :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I have an idea though...

How about you have building, outside which you have a bloke with table, or in another room/building. You pay £20 for a sheet of paper from 1 to 10. You then walk inside to the privately owned building where the owner says you can smoke (as I presume you can if you visit your friends house, lest Labour want to control what people want to do in their own homes, and we all know they do. That's communism/socialism). Whilst you are inside, the owner offers you a free drink, but scribbles out a number on your card. No business has taken place here.

How would that be illegal after the ban comes about?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I can see reasoning for public ban but why extend to private clubs? These should be treated as would be a home. People should have the right to join a club which permits smoking, and proprietors of these should have the right to permit smoking here.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I wonder if pubs can survive. I think it will mean smokers will probably shun pubs for drinking at home with friends which could put a lot of pubs out of business, as i'm not sure whether non-smokers (and the odd few smokers that will go to the pub) could make a pub profitable. Smokers may suffer not smoking to go on holiday, but I doubt they would for regular pub visits.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

How on earth is it fair?

Fair would be to have a sectioned off smoking area where the smoke cannot interfere with non-smokers.
They do it in South Africa.

I can see many independant pubs losing their public status and becoming "private" clubs with really low or non-existant membership fees.
In the cities, I can see this being enforced, but small country pubs, who's gonna check if the locals aren't bothered by it?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

it's fair because private clubs will not be exempt, despite what the Cabinet initially proposed. A pub will not be able to circumvent the ban by doing what you describe.

As for whether it gets enforced ... how is any law enforced in rural areas? It may take longer to become accepted, but it is IMO just a matter of time.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

How is it fair though?

At the moment, smokers and non-smokers can go into pubs and enjoy the time together.
With the current law, non-smokers can go into a pub, enjoy the clean air of the no-smoking area, while their smoking friends can relax in a legal passtime in the smoking area.
Once the bill comes into law, smokers will only be able to do so if they go outside.
It's fair to treat smokers as second class citizens is it?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Three things will happen.

1)Some smokers will give up.
2)Some smokers will just leave the premises have a smoke and then return.
3)Some smokers will just drink and smoke at home more often.If they do it often enough some bars may see a little less turnover unless they can attract more non smokers.

The world will not end however.

Mind if they target alcohol next I wonder how many of our rabid anti-smokers will put up with that? ;)

Frankly I can't wait to see the end of TB's government because I'm sick of the total bluddy nagging about what we do,ingest,exercise,weigh.Who needs a second mother?At least she only nags about what you wear and whom you see.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Personally, I think this will cause a lot of problems. It's ok to ban people, but when it's close to last orders and people have had a huge amount to drink. Imagine the local villain, and a dozen of his mates all lighting up, being told to either put it out or get out. I hope the police have the reinforcements to cope with this type of scenario. :erm:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

When does this law come into effect?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

It was suposed to end when minimum wage was brought in. Doomed, we're all doomed I say! :rofl:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Well, this is the goverment which wanted to ban pint glasses!

Re: smoking and the pub
 

:rofl:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

This is excellent news. Hopefully a clear message will be communicated to our kids that smoking is not something to admire and look forward to but something that is not publically acceptable.

There is something; a smoker lying dead in a mortuary. And yes, I know he could have been run over by a bus.....

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I couldnt help but laugh, Hospitals are to be exempt from the ban :Yikes:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

You're kidding!Where did you get that from? :Yikes:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

How do you know? (I'll answer for you, you don't!). Everybody made the same assumption that all the pubs in Ireland would go t*ts up when they introduced a smoking ban, if anything the ones I visit are busier.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Link
Its shocking, its one place i thought it would be banned.:(

Re: smoking and the pub
 

parliment is also excempt.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Yeah but you're not allowed to wear a suit of armour in there either so I don't what to think :erm:

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I've heard people regularly ask for cigarettes at the hospital shop when I am behind them in the queue....

It used to amuse me that there used to be a Burger King on the top floor of our hospital in the canteen where you could also buy Chips, red meat and sponge puddings galore.

The floor below there was the CCU (Coronary care unit)

The floor below that you could get a cardiac bypass.

The ground floor contained the mortuary.....

Start at the top and work your way down... :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

So another example of "We know better than you" from our beloved MP's. :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong I'm in favour of the ban but if its good enough for the rest of us it should be good enough for them.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Not really - Westminster is a Royal palace and treated very differently by health and safety legislation (it may even be completely exempt, IIRC). The smoking ban is being introduced as H&S.

Don't get me wrong, I think that exemption is an outrageous anachronism and needs to be tackled in its own right. But until it is, issues such as the smoking ban will unavoidably be affected by it.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Well maybe the Queen should remove all the ashtrays from her house, and tell them not to smoke in there :)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I agree, all this new law will never stop kiddies being forced to breath in smoke from their irresponsible parents day after day after day at home :(

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Yeah thats the truly sad thing. I have so many friends who have young kids, some new born, many beeing toddlers, and just smoke in their company irregardless. Its actually stopped us going round with our little un cause it just means either me or the missus will be in the garden with our little one while everyone's lighting up.

Im all for the ban, especially in restaurants, where I just feel its blatantly rude to light up while others are eating.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

this ban - is it to protect non smokers and innocents (kids) from passive smoking or to stop smokers from smoking - or is it both?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I can see a lot of trouble ahead with this.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

yeah when you impose your will on people and force them to do something because you think you know better etc etc then you will probably make something that would be practical to implement become more resisted.

---------- Post added at 12:11 ---------- Previous post was at 12:10 ----------

my point is, you need to get the 'smokers' on side and complete blanket ban which as a non smoker I wont lose any sleep over is not the way of pleasant persuading.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

A complete ban will be good news for the supermarkets. There is a lot on the news at the moment about them expanding the lines they offer and how they are affecting small specialised shops. I would expect their sales of alcohol to increase when the complete ban comes into effect. That group of smoking card players who go along to their local virtually every night of the week for a game of cards, a few pints and a smoke will possibly decide to congregate in each others homes and get their booze from Tesco or whoever.

In our younger days we used to meet up with friends in our local two or three times per week. After a while this turned into meeting up in one of our homes instead. There was a large group of us and several months after we started doing this we did meet up in our old local one night and found the landlord was moving to another pub. He said that after we all stopped going in the atmosphere of the place changed and other regulars drifted off elsewhere changing what was a busy lively pub into a nearly empty quiet place most of the time.

If people do look elsewhere when they cannot smoke in the pub they could be moving the smoke from a large space with reasonable ventilation into much smaller spaces with no ventilation. This would affect any non-smokers which may move with them more than previously and possibly bring much more smoke into homes where children live. Smoking outside pubs when smokers pop out for a drag will put smoking more in the sight of children passing by which would have been unnoticed if they were shut away inside.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I suspect if you cant smoke in pubs it will mean you drink more.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

I smoke myself, and i'm all for not smoking in pubs, ive no doubt landlords will welcome the cleaner air and no more cig burns on the carpets and pool table.:)

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Whilst I don't agree with a "total" ban, we have it. Once again New Labour shows itself not to be the champion of the working class or the common man but if fact as near to a far right dictatorship as this county can have.

A government that effectively legalises cannabis and then bans smoking - you couldn't make it up.

All this will mean is people will go out in groups of friends and then every 20-30mins the group will be split with the smokers going outside. Not conducive for a good night out.

Bars that have beer gardens will do great business, those that don't will suffer.

Bars that do have beer gardens will buy those big patio heaters - great for the environment.

Councils will have to clean the streets virtually daily - rise in council tax.

Also non-smokers who think they've won - beware. This government has shown it is good at least at one thing, and that is removing civil liberties.

Today it is smoking, next it may be alchohol, junk food, dangerous sports, barbeques, fast cars and fast bikes, comedy, free speech the list goes on - and they're not listed to be funny.

I think it's a sad day for the country.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Working class? Come on, Labour saw the light and ditched that tired old class war rhetoric when it finally realised you can't govern on tribal lines any more. There may well be large swathes of the country where men in flat caps would vote for a monkey provided it was wearing a red rosette, but that has little impact in the corridors of power. There is no working class any more. There are Chavs (who work as little as possible) and the rest of us.

You are making it up. They have done neither of these things. Not by a very long way.

The experience from Ireland is that this happens to an extent, but also that people smoke less in an evening, so 20-30 minutes may be an exaggeration.

Exactly how many months of the year would you choose to sit in a beer garden anyway? It may make a difference, but it won't be vast.

And they will suffer higher business costs as a result, thus cancelling out their advantage over the pubs with no beer garden. :shrug:

Councils will use powers they already have to make a Street Litter Control Notice, thereby either resolving the problem or resulting in a fine of up to £2,500 on the business. Solution: The pub organises to sweep the pavement, to avoid getting fined, and Council Tax is unaffected.

Parliament - and it is Parliament, not the Government, because there was a free vote on this issue - has recognised the right of workers to earn a living in an environment clear of toxic airborne pollutants caused by smoking. You started your post by banging on about the working class, you should be celebrating this extension of workers rights.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

so is the ban to protect people from passive smoking or to protect/deter smokers from their stupid habit or is it both?

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Officially, it is health and safety at work legislation, designed to protect workers from being exposed to harmful substances in the workplace, just the same as it was in Ireland. However many of the law's supporters in Parliament have been quite open about the fact they hope it will lead to more smokers deciding to quit as well.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Seemingly to protect bar workers etc. from smoke in the workplace.

I'm just sitting waiting for the 1st challenge to the law from prison officers as prisoners are exempt.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Yes, also the Houses of Parliament are exempt as well. So after all the chuffs that voted for the ban have finished tucking into their subsidised stuffed pidgeon breast, they can enjoy a smoke in the heated luxury of the corridors of power whilst the rest of you smoke outside.

Re: smoking and the pub
 

Are you reading the whole thread?

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/sh...postcount=1183

Re: smoking and the pub
 

if it's a way of covertly getting smokers to quit why not just stop fannying around and ban the sale of cigs?