Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

From the BT AGM web site, for anyone who can't make it to London, or people protesting outside with a wireless IP link;

Webcast
The AGM will be webcast live over the internet for those who are unable to attend in person. View the test webcast to check your system is capable of viewing the broadcast.

There's also an induction loop which might allow someone with the right radio receiver kit to pick up a signal perhaps?

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

questions and voting not going to be webcast only speeches

no mention of the demo either (i wonder why)

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi All, I have received a "reply" to the letter that I sent to David Cameron recently ref. the Phorm/BT issue. It looks like someone from Mr Cameron's team has e-mailed BT and I have been forwarded a print-out of the reply which was from Lawrence Vousden, Public Affairs Manager. It is full of the spin and usual stuff that we have been reading about from them for months. It is not worth me trying to get it into a post but the e-mail finishes up by saying that "Furthermore, BT is commited to providing it's customers with a choice as to whether they want this as a service or not; going forward - it will be optional. Sould you have any questions or concerns, please contact me on telephone number [Moderator Edit]".

I have just seen this below -

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...yone-else.html

Dave.




[Moderator Edit (Rob M): Unless specific permission has been given to publish contact details on this forum please do not do so - thank you]

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hmmm Windows only it seems...:(

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The privacy implications of DPI and Behavioural Targeting at a ISP level are so obvious an issue that the lack of interest shown by the major political parties in the UK is extremely suspect.

This is now a global issue. If the US place or enforce restrictions on DPI and data interception as a result of the Senate Committee's hearings we could find ourselves in a situation where the UK is effectively isolated from the WWW because our internet system could be deemed unsafe for American users. The knock-on effects of this don't bear thinking about.

Quite why there is so little input or interest from Whitehall is a matter of opinion and mine is that BT has agreed to allow access to the DPI equipment for covert surveillence by government and the authorities in return for them turning a blind eye to the illegal trials and the commercial use of this system.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

do they really think using dpi kit going to help to catch a wannabi terrorist, for they wouldnt use it as such and they know it.
and all that cctv dose not stop anything from happening does it, it`s only usefull after the fact as proven time and time again when its all gone wrong.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Something along those lines anyway. As someone pointed out way back, if this is allowed to proceed, the govt. could just buy the services of phorm to target whatever group they were interested in and perhaps single out individuals for detailed surveillance. I'm not really sure whether the govt. attitude is due to lack of understanding and pig headedness or there really is a hidden agenda. I'm willing to believe either.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

this all still comes down to we do not know what the result of the research or legal advice bt / phorm have sought and recieved or even the questions they asked to get the advice, if it was as general as the information they gave the ICO then i think they should go back and seek advice again giving a bit more detail and then stand back in horror the the lawyers say, "well if you had given us this level of info at the start..........."

also the same with the survey if you have a specific product to market by al means ask general questions but at the end , fill in a few blanks and ask if you had that information at the start would it have change any of your answers sort of thing to get a true picture of customer feeling

its one thing to ask general questions about adverts and another when the interviewee understands the methods used to provide the targeted adverts mentioned in the questions

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I wouldn't expect any single politician to understand the situation but there are hundreds of them and they also have access to advisors and they normally set up committees to sort out the technicalities of complex issues.

I don't believe for one minute that no-one in Whitehall is aware of BT Webwise, the illegal trials, the Barbican protest or the US Senate's involvement.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

here`s one for them the gamer visits his web sites for his/her fav game say CS:s and forums which would be full of key words like bomb timer weapons you know the stuff lots of game web sites are full of it and so are forums along with ng`s, they be a lot of false pos that`s for sure one forum I know off the title alone brings them looking, and that site is over 10 years old and only for gen chit chat now as qwtf is now dead. :P and all would flags would not be in the context of the hit would they.
like this reply flagged now i bet.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Phorm haven't said that they won't profile or supply adverts for weapons so you'll probably just have time to read a few ads for ex-Soviet thermonuclear devices before the SAS's tear-gas and shock-grenades cause temporary blindness.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Assuming it is a normal audio induction loop that will not be receivable outside the hall. These are not radio devices but baseband audio. I know for a fact (from the system I am responsible at our church) that there is no detectable signal outside the loop.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

They use induction loops in a number of Government buildings that I have worked in and they can and do leak. The following is from the RNID (Royal National Institute for the Deaf) website...

Be aware that the loop signal can spill out beyond the area within the loop to other rooms. Walls, ceilings and floors do not block the magnetic waves from a loop. So you may be able to overhear sounds or conversations in rooms next door or directly above and below the loop. This could be a problem if your neighbour also uses a loop system, or if you want to have a confidential conversation.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

With no restrictions such as applying to a court for a warrant to gain access potentially the government would be able to monitor everyones click stream in real time. They would potentially be able to add keywords such as the names of materials used in bomb making to a software scanner and identify users who searched for those keywords as they actually typed them into Google etc.

The scary part is that they wouldn't just be doing that with it...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

wait for the price to head down again 60,000 shares sold in the last hour

hammy your not dumping again are you :angel:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

With respect, its not snooping at all. BT broadcast the AGM presentation using induction loop technology. They broadcast the AGM, simultaneously, over the net using webcasting in any case.

Receiving an induction loop broadcast, like receiving local FM radio broadcasts, isn't 'snooping'. (NB; using it to monitor a private conversation, such as at Post Office counters certainly IS).

Unless you want BT to ban people wearing hearing aids from the AGM?

If it were a private meeting, if the AGM wasn't being simultaneously relayed over the internet, I might otherwise agree.

Update; I will contact BT to see if they object to the use of induction loop receivers outside the AGM? Would that help?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Remember that kent has been doing the rounds in parliament for a while and many do seem to have taken his blah as fact. Look at the Don Foster situation, he was behind us all the way until he had a chat with kent...now he's gone very quiet :(
kent ertugral may be a right smarmy git in many peoples eyes but he certainly has charm and the gift of the gab when trying to convince people of his intentions.
Just look at how many people he has already convinced that what he's doing is legal, a major step forward in privacy, wanted by everyone etc. BT, VM, CPW, ICO, HO, 80/20, the list goes on, and they cant all be as stupid as BT :erm:
It was only when people who knew their network onions disected phorm / webwise and realised how massive a threat to everyones privacy it was and called Shennanigans.

I certainly believe that some in Whitehall were aware of the implications but, for their own reasons, were quite happy to let it roll (security services etc) but I just don't think we should underestimate kents ability to spin BS when tripping his spiel to to the technically uneducated, and that includes parliament.

Peter, you still there Peter?;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It isn't working in VBox or VMWare either. How do you assign exclusive use in VBox?

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

it souldnt be a problem if they keep to that test feed,
WMV3,WMA2 ,320x240
mms://twofour.wmod.llnwd.net/a2238/d1/u/BT/AGM1_bb-001.wmv

see OT page #15 for more.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

An induction coil system is not a network and is only doing the same job as an amplifier. "Hearing" the audio from an induction coil shouldn't be a problem any more than hearing through an open window or overloud microphone but deliberately monitoring or recording the AGM without permission may be.

If you are going to ask permission you need to also ask before recording.

In practice, any leakage will be very short range anyway an induction coil system that leaks into the street is a nuisance and should be reported.

---------- Post added at 14:32 ---------- Previous post was at 14:23 ----------

Roadrunner69...

Ken Turtleglue has a degree in politics - nuff sed!

I'm okay cos I'm immune to tear-gas. A couple of evenings in the same room as Minky and you'd understand why.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Or is that the homebrew's fault???:angel::D;) (That's if i'm recognising your avatar correctly!)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I can't speak about the others, but my MP definitely went off the boil, even though I sent a detailed rebuttal of the BT parliamentary briefing paper. She is LD and signed the EDM but both she and Don Foster appear to have softened their stance dramatically. I have rebutted each Phorm falsehood that she has been fed but it has been a bit depressing to think she has swallowed the Phorm propaganda so easily.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Another curious co-incidence, the 7 July 2007 (perhaps the last date of the 2007 BT trial) was the second anniversary of the London Tube bombing on 7 July 2005.

This CBS article 'Was London Bomb Plot Heralded On Web?' 29 June 2007 sets some of the context, you might recall there was a failed terrorist attack in London's Haymarket. The following day, 30 June 2007, the Glasgow airport attack occurred. The UK was then on critical/severe security alert, and still is.

All of which is, at this point in time, purely co-incidence, I've no information to suggests otherwise.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Alex, do you have an audio cable that you can plug into the headphone socket of the player with the other end to the line in of your pc sound card? Then if you have recording software (e.g Audition) on the PC, you can at least get some kind of recording made.

Just a mad suggestion as a temporary fix.

OB

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

She only drinks real-ale the same as me. It's the wife's cooking that causes the pollution problem (and not just for the dog)

---------- Post added at 15:46 ---------- Previous post was at 15:34 ----------

I find it impossible to believe that 647 British MPs plus all of the members of the Scottish, Welsh and Irish assemblies all think the same way as Phorm. Even if Phorm are right and we are all wrong then I'd still expect a few of those MPs to be as wrong as us and to say so if only for want of a cause to champion.

I expected to see general apathy amongst the public especially as it's been so difficult to get the basic privacy arguments across and we have been fighting against professional spin doctors and cleverly written statements the whole time but the deliberate head-in-the-sand approach from Whitehall and Westminster surprises even an old cynic like me.

Corruption and vested interest reign supreme - for now.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I will alert my MP again to the Lords committee discussion

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It's not a bad idea as the leads are readily available. As long as you start at a low level and increase it until it you get the optimum level, you could dump it as a wav file and see how good or bad the quality is and then clean it up.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Test works a treat in VLC on OSX. Ta!

---------- Post added at 16:32 ---------- Previous post was at 16:27 ----------

Sad to see Juniper Networks getting into bed with NebuAd - need some diggs http://digg.com/security/Juniper_Net...ushing_Spyware

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Meeting up with them at a surgery, I've found, is very productive. I think MPs appreciate it too. And it gives you a chance to eyeball them.

Is there an opportunity to meet your MP?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

wonder if the ICO gave this to BT and phorm ?

http://www.kablenet.com/kd.nsf/Front...9!OpenDocument

:grin:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

you think they have a award for the worst, like our gov and its dept`s losing so much in such a short time 25million family`s and you can at least tripple that if you add in the avg family is 2+2.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Another less sinister coincidence...

BT's home page. Cheapo broadband with 18 month contract tie in (!!) and lots of free cack offer ends... hurry hurry... 17 July. That's one day after the AGM.

They must be desperate to get their churn rate back on track before investors start asking questions. :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

what ever do you mean, are people leaving BT for a cheaper better phorm/webwise free isp,
that cannot happen oh no must be lies :)

btw that web page to me is a total BLANK ?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The £4.95 is for the first three months of an 18 month contract - the remain 15 months are charged at £15.99. Despite showing the hub and hubphone on the main advert and then showing the hub again on the Option 1 specific advert, you only get a basic ethernet router - no wireless. There's a 10G limit with charges for going over and there are some deliberately vague descriptions like BT Vision Ready - whatever that means and 250 wi-fi minutes a month (but only if you sign up for BT Fon and give away a chunk of your expensive bandwidth only to find that your router keeps crashing and there are no BT Fon hot-spots in the whole of the west of England).

Sounds like a bargain to me.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I recommend this highly. If you meet them, then you have their attention and so will make much more of an impression.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

see OT #16

yep ment to do that rob, but you replyed to quick for me to move it and put a link in..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

In order to avoid diluting this thread further, could we please take the technical discussions somewhere else?

Thank you.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You know that gives me an idea. Couldn't there be an award for the most nefarious or privacy UNfriendly ISP? Like the Plain English bull awards etc. ?

Maybe NoDPI could award it?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I am just having a stab at cleaning up this audio a little. I had to take it to the inlaws in the end to get it off the voice recorder.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

odd, so i take it the USB2 setting in the OT thread above didnt work then, or did you not try it.... reply On the OT #16 thread if you like...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Word of caution about iii (I know a few people here use it to track Phorm shares). I noticed some odd stuff in my logs, Dephormation messages show content sourced from dianomioffers.co.uk (which is registered to a 'non-trading individual' so few details available). I've added it to my hosts file as 127.0.0.1.

"About Us
Dianomi was founded in January 2003 with the aim of offering advertisers a more efficient way to acquire customers through a targeted network. We believe in a personalised service, repeat business and a focus on results"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Not at all - click on the flash to take you to the offer page and your browser is linking to as1.falkag.de - classed as malware and dangerous. There is some interesting reading at
[Moderator Edit]
Other links do not have it so dangerous.

---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:24 ----------

Found a forum reporting on falkag, dating back to 2004 - makes for some interesting reading which I won't repeat here
[Moderator Edit]



[Moderator Edit (Rob M): Links cause Trojan alerts in Antivirus, I've removed them to be on the safe side. Suggest anybody that has visited the sites linked to perform a thorough AV check and assure themselves that their system has not been compromised in any way.]

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I didn't see flash, perhaps they've changed it?

I do see a wireless router, and a classic bait and switch ad.

When you read the details you don't get a wireless router at all (unless you cough up another £30).

That ought to go to OFCOM.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Other links do not have it so dangerous.

---------- Post added at 21:38 ---------- Previous post was at 21:24 ----------

MOD the second link I have just removed kicks in a Norton trojan alert, I think it needs removing!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Aah didnt notice the mod edit in the post, just pipped me to it, I got the same result Avast intercepted win32 variant.

O_o EDIT: Wait, I was referring to the first link in his post, that one gave me the virus too.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Pete I'm sure your way ahead of me here but just in case... if you didnt get any security warnings from those links....

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Obviously a waste of time me telling Emma about the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 then. She never DID acknowledge that part of the email!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Audio is up on https://nodpi.org

Alexander Hanff

[Edit] Bringing it down for a few minutes to try and fix the rss.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks Alex. That sounds quite audible even in its raw form.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well that isn't raw, I have run it through some filters in Audacity, but I am no audio expert so I just did the best I could. I have a friend working on it though so hopefully a cleaner version will go up soon.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Many apologies folks.

I have very high security settings on the browser I was using to visit those google cache pages (no 3rd party anything is requested or downloaded). Been right through the browser logs and see nothing requested from anywhere other than google or the 'original' site in the cache. Corrupted gifs on the domain? No javascript files were downloaded by my browser but it looks like some scripts on the page were expecting some variables from js (php?) as I have some error messages in the logs:
ReferenceError: Can't find variable: selectContentInit
TypeError: Value undefined (result of expression window.execScript) is not object.
TypeError: Value undefined (result of expression _b0.addBehavior) is not object.
ReferenceError: Can't find variable: urchinTracker

Next time I find an interesting cache, I will link to the text only version.

----------------

As most did not get to see the cache for the forum, dated 2004: basically falkag were not too fussy about whose ads they passed through their ad network and some sites where being offered ads which hosted/installed malware of the tracking and ad delivery variety. The domain registrations for the scripts show they were registered to GATOR. St.Petersburg and Ukraine get a mention too. ElReg was covering the story at the time as per links on the forum.

Shows what a small world it is and how once one bad apple gets into the basket, the rest seem so come around for the easy touch.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

i havent llistened to it yet but i noticed staight away putting it though http://www.headbands.com/gspot/ its showing as
22050Hz 128 kb/s , Monophonic
see OT #18 for more, and replys....

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

OK who fancies having a crack at providing a transcript of the meeting? I certainly don't have time to do it until at least a week from now, but I have had several requests for one already so if anyone has a lot of time spare and would like to have a go, please feel free.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I will have a go later today Alex..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks :)

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Wow - I thoroughly enjoyed that - at times it was hard to believe he's a peer of the realm it must've been just like talking to an old friend!

Excellent - Big big thanks Alex :) :)

A few confirmations of what I thought was happening with regard to several issues - I loved the bit about the way in which the home office viewed Phorm (from a technological point of view)

"With some jealousy"

:rofl:

Took the volume down to -19.00 dB in my ancient version of Sonic Foundry's Sound Forge (pre Sony buy out) made it really easy to listen to (God know's why - it's been several years since I've used audio software)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Alex, that was an excellent listen; I can see why you enjoyed it much.

Totally agree, the Earl comes across as a very approachable man. Was also great to hear someone give straight clear answers and opinions, no BS, and not scared to honestly say something even when he knows you (or we) might not like hearing it.

Given everything I heard in that interview, I really think Emma Sanderson needs to reconsider what she told the BBC Breakfast program on April 8th, which was: (my bold)

Erm... Emma, the Earl of Northesk doesn't agree with you.

Anyway, thanks Alex, thanks Lord Northesk.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :nworthy: :nworthy:

OB

btw. It was a bit loud for me, so I ran it through a noise filter in my old copy of Audition (used to use it to clean up old, scratched vinyl for transfer to tape or CD), then dropped the volume a bit. Still got the odd background clatter, but it was 100% listenable.


Edit: Forgot to mention one of my favourite quotes from the Earl, (of which there were many). It's what I think Kent and Phorm should adopt as their new advertising slogan:

They could change their logo to a loaf of really green, mouldy bread.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just so you all know, the bit about copyright towards the end of the recording that I said I would take out, the Earl said it was fine to leave it in, so no-one needs to panic and think I have made a big bad mistake lol.

(I hope my missus and son didn't get woken up by the phone call or I am in doo doo).

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Alex you are amazing, that interview with the Earl was fantastic.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

ICO has produced a report on whether town halls should sell edited versions of the voting register, to commercial firms. Some interesting quotes there.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7500826.stm

Quotes from article - I can see no link direct to the report and there is no mention of it yet on the ICO site


The government-commissioned report said allowing voters' details to be sold to commercial firms sent a "poor message".

It also said people should have a right to know who firms shared their details with and firms which deliberately broke privacy rules should face large fines.

The government said it agreed measures needed to be taken to increase trust.

across the public and private sectors data sharing was "shrouded in confusion" and the public had little insight into how their personal information was used.

It also recommended that the information commissioner be given powers to impose fines against private or public sector bodies which deliberately or recklessly broke privacy rules.

It suggested that internet sites which collected people's details from electoral rolls, company registers, telephone directories and website were a "worrying threat to privacy".

Dr Mark Wellport quote - part of report
"Many individuals are posting more and more personal information on the web and of course web technology means that it can be aggregated in a very powerful way."

I really musn't pinch any more of the BBC's copyrighttext but there are some interesting things there including government seemingly beginning to wake up to some of the implications of the internet.


And it is a busy day on El Reg for privacy too:

An article on the "Barnardisation" of anonymised data - Scottish ICO/Lords case on anonymised data - Lords say it is still personal data http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07...n_data_ruling/

Ofcom plan to make complaining easier http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/10/ofcom_adrs/

More on NebuAd - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07...out_revisited/
will they really opt people out, or will they sort of still be opted in? sounds very familiar to those of us listening to BT dithering over the issue.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes I would love to have a go at cleaning up the background noise without removing any verbal content, but would prefer the original raw, depending on what filtering you have applied any degradation of the voice content because of our combined efforts will be cumulative, ie the less filtering the better the end result I believe.

---------- Post added at 10:23 ---------- Previous post was at 10:00 ----------

Hmm, cant seem to edit my last post even though edit still available......

Anyway Doh!, just realised you were talking about transcripting it not editing the sound file.
And @Florence, not stepping on your toes here, realise you are already working on the transcript.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

got to love it, more bad news for phorm

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07...aping_victory/

"Ryanair has claimed a German court victory against a tour company it has accused of screen-scraping its website against its wishes. The airline said that Hamburg Regional Court has awarded it an injunction against Vtours.

Screen-scraping is when one company takes information from another's website by automatically filling in forms and harvesting the results. Some travel companies scrape airline sites to offer their customers flights."

---------- Post added at 11:39 ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 ----------

more from the states

http://www.out-law.com/page-9248

i love the comment in there

"Citizens' rights pressure group the Center for Democracy and Technology has produced a report claiming that use of the technology could violate US anti-spying laws. "We conclude that the use of internet traffic content from ISPs may run afoul of federal wiretap laws unless the activity is conducted with the consent of the subscriber," said its report.

"When an ISP copies a customer’s communications or allows them to be copied by an advertising network, those communications have undoubtedly been 'intercept[ed]'," said the report. "Therefore, unless an exception applies, it seems likely that placing a device on an ISP’s network and using it to copy communications for use in developing advertising profiles would constitute illegal interception."

MY bold

and finally at the very bottom of the article

"NebuAd will appear before the Senate committee investigating online privacy. The Committee will also discuss privacy with Facebook, Google and Microsoft."

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Any help with removing background noise is always appreciated I am only working with windows media so background noise is a bit pain... at times.

Will continue wheni get back from my mothers later today.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

another interesting article
http://www.out-law.com/page-9247

"The Commissioner, with the support of the Court of Session, had decided that, as a matter of fact, a set of anonymised medical statistics were not personal data and had ordered their release under Freedom of Information (FOI) laws.

According to one expert, the Lords' judgment shows that the Commissioner had failed to appreciate that the degree of anonymisation employed was very likely to be insufficient to protect anonyminity"

so an information commissioner is getting there wrist slapped for not protecting privacy

i wonder if the UK ICO is watching this

for anonymity read privacy

hmm

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Excellent work Alex. Really, excellent :) Well done on both your meetings.


Just need a transcript of the tape to make it more accessible. Is someone working on that already?? (Obviously it'll take more than a few minutes to complete)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Bizarre, was just responding to a thread on BadPhorm... did a search on the Daily Mail site for the word 'Phorm'... got this advert;

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/07/37.png

eBay are sponsoring the 'Phorm' word, through Yahoo! (a BT partner??), to sell garden plants.

Nothing to do with Phorm ever seems to makes sense, but Phorm and garden plants is getting a bit 'hatstand' for me. Perhaps Roger Irrelevant joined Phorms elite PR team, or are they making a very very crude attempt to prove their relevancy claim...

"Look search for Phorm, get garden plant ads! See? IRRELEVANT!"

Muppets (and that is the relevant word for Phorm).

Pete.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have started but it will take a while and mostlikely need checking by someone incase anything is missed out..

Could do a timing split and a few work from differnet times on tape.

I have started this and working along slowly the tape is an hour plus so 15min sections would perhaps move it along quicker. If it is important that is is done in a day or two....
Shame noone thought to invent a script to pick up the talking and type the words on the screen split between each person.. those cups keep making me want a coffeeee. damn you Alex where is my coffee.. :rofl:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes it is being worked on (thanks florence)

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

A possible explination: There is a type of plant called "phormium" or New Zealand Flax.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Is it a parasite (weed)?

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Like I said - it's not a ten minute job. :) I can do some tonight. I'll start from 1 hour in and see how I go.

---------- Post added at 13:28 ---------- Previous post was at 13:25 ----------

Depends who you ask ;)
According to The Royal Botanical Gardens at Kew:

Phormium tenax
New Zealand Flax

The name Phormium comes from the Greek for ‘basket’.

A truly versatile plant, it is known to the Maori as ‘harakeke’. They traditionally use its tough fibrous leaves for making mats, baskets, clothing, fishing nets and rope. They also use the pollen as face powder and the roots for making medicine.

These qualities have resulted in Phormium being widely cultivated.

Found throughout New Zealand, Phormium was one of the first plants to be discovered when Captain Cook landed in 1773.

Phormium is now an invasive plant in many parts of the world, proving a threat to sensitive floras.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

According to the Royal Horticultural Society...

Found throughout New Zealand, Phormium was one of the first plants to be discovered when Captain Cook landed in 1773.

Phormium is now an invasive plant in many parts of the world, proving a threat to sensitive floras.

{Sorry sunshine - I was still typing that when you posted.}

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

@ Alex...

Just a quick thought have you got al you said already wrote down or is it just the questioins you have already on paper...

Damn those cups..... Need to get a improvments bill past the house of lords need soundproofing while drinking coffee with guests :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I only have the questions submitted by the people here written down, everything else was just bullet points as I wanted the discussion to flow naturally as opposed to being an interview (which I personally believe worked very well as it showed our Peers do have a human side that everyone can relate to).

The chinking of china and silver spoons was a little loud but the coffee was fantastic.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Phorm seem to be updating their web site at present. I reckon they are dressing themselves up, to attract a takeover.

There's a section I haven't seen before, which regurgitates the non-committal statements of the various partner ISPs;

http://webwise.phorm.com/current_pilots.php

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

now back home after my surgery on Monday, I could do some transcribing as I have to keep my foot elevated, and i could transcribe from my i pod to paper then type it up in short sessions if this would help.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Where is mine :'(

Ok was just clutching at straws to make this quicker since i keep getting interupted today.. Mind tonight will be peaceful if everyone does what they say they are going to do..

he does have much better knowledge than most i have listenened to in the government, maybe they should let him lead them into the right paths..

---------- Post added at 14:19 ---------- Previous post was at 14:14 ----------

Would love the help the quicker we can get this online the better for the fight. I have started if you could start 30 mins into the recording and rryles is starting at the 1hour doing the last 16mins or so. The Earl of Northesk would have needed another coffee after all this talking. Such an interesting and friendly chat makes him a really approachable person.
A big thank you to both Alex for going and the Earl of Northesk for meeting Alex

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Did you find it as surprising, as I did, that he wasn't more angry about the secret trials?

Angry because BT had been so reckless they did not advise the Home Office? Or angry because there had been no subsequent statement to Parliament by the Government, no report on the risk assessment to committees?

He seemed quite chilled out about it when you asked him, almost amused.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It's 116 minutes = 1 hour 56 minutes! We'll get through it though :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've met him and that's his style - traditional British , and not the kind of person to show anger even if he felt it.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

He did state in the meeting (and on the recording) that he is just as frustrated about the issue as we all are, but his position demands composure. I have no doubts as to his thoughts on the issue, he made it very clear that breaches of privacy should be met with personal fines or imprisonment and also made it very clear that what BT did was illegal, so if you correlate the two...

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ian and Emma could be going for a holiday :D

dont disalusion me on the tape, give a shorter time you get there quicker.... :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I agree, his style is very measured (and actually quite entertaining to listen to).

I had thought - assuming the HO were not responsible for or aware of either batch of trials as they claim - he would have questioned why there was no report to the Home Affairs select committee, or the HoL Technology committee when the secret surveillance was detected and/or reported.

His final words in the interview are, at least a hint of anger... "I am appalled that, erm, BT chose to conduct trials in secret that outwardly appear to be utterly illegal".

:)

Update; is there a hint in his answer that one or both of the trials were conducted as part of the Information Modernisation Programme..? (36:55)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No. They were completely independent of any government initiative or department. in fact I don't think the Information Modernisation Programme is even past the planning stages yet.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 15:23 ---------- Previous post was at 15:17 ----------

OK the fliers for the event are at the printers now (1000 of them so I hope people are going to help hand them out?).

I haven't had any placard image submissions to date (that I am aware of) so if I don't have any by the end of tomorrow I will have to spend Sunday designing them ready for printing on Monday.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

alex just printing the 100 a4 pages for you, so another 200 heading your way, will send recorded so you should get them monday

peter

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

There was an SVG tool you recommended; http://www.inkscape.org/download/?lang=en

Would PDF format be ok?

A3 page size noted. (see here)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ahh well they have now corrected this. See they do read this thread ;) Just for absolute clarity, Phorm please read this - WE DON'T WANT OR NEED YOU!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yup PDF should be fine.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I also got a distinct feeling that their latest updates (not sure when they were made) have a hint of desperation to them? is it just me? :)

like the "Webwise is legal" section which dismisses the FIPR analysis yet does not give reference to any favourable legal analysis, just the same "we spoke to the home office" spin. Hugo's post from a few weeks ago and labelling us as a "vocal minority" when we all know that the numbers of people becoming aware of their technology and opposing it is growing by the day.

correction, we are apparently a "passionate yet tiny minority".

http://adblog.phorm.com/uncategorize...tising-update/

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Seems the protest event has sparked interest from overseas, I have just been contacted to give an interview for Computer World in Denmark regarding the protest.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don't know if anyone caught the bbc news24 interview,between a spokesman from 192.com and a privacy defender,regarding our electoral register inphormation and advertisers who buy it,and the statement from, surprise surprise ,the ICO who have announced changes need to be made to help defend our privacy.

Quite an entertaining little debate seeing 192.com trying to defend the practice of opt in as standard ( it helps families find each other through us,and allows parents to check up on prospective (? baby sitters)) .

Shown at around 16.30 today.


..............................

I think this page has the video interview and sound bite!

Council data sharing ban,voters data should not be sold;
http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/sear...all&recipe=all

.......................................

Sorry guys,those links do talk about it,but none of them are of the studio interview between 192.com and the privacy defender that was on the news24 channel shown today at about 16.30,maybe it's yet to be put on their website,but please do try to track it down,as it reminds me of our own resident shining light Mr Hanff,defending our rights against these tricksters.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

i think websites should start putting a little mp3 sound on informing us they have opted out of phorm and the classic "phorm free, phorm as the wind blows" lol im kiddin

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

well that's a good thing Alexander, after all, this protest is just the latest high profile event as regards this whole world ISP DPI data collection saga, the more the meryer.

BTW,"Today the citizens of Haltemprice and Howden are re-electing David Davis as their MP".

as mentioned in the http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/index.php news letter.

he's only had 2 redeem's today though so far, people are slacking ...
http://www.kindlyfoxtrotoscar.com/?a...ominee&nID=398

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I posted that this morning but things move so fast round here it got lost several pages ago :-)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Wow - Held og lykke!

It means "Good Luck"

:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've edited my post because those links were not infact to the studio interview with 192.com,which i was watching,and i suspect you may not have seen it either.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes you are right. I couldn't find any follow on links when I was at BBC page this morning. good to have the follow up.