Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Love the arguement. If I send a mail to a gmail account... Well by sending the email to a gmail account I am consenting for gmail to read that mail. By my friend recieving that mail and reading it there I they are consenting. And well the mail itself contains personally identifiable information such as my email address and a conversation. V.Strange analagy IMHO.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Not only that but there are two key issues they are missing regarding use of gmail, google search engine and other services like it:

1) Choice. People have a clear choice. We can choose whether to use their email in full knowledge of what they are doing. Its easy to spread around your browsing in other search engines so that no one company or search engine gets to see the totality of what we do. Changing Internet Provider is not so easy and in some cases, such as in rural areas, just isnt feasible at all.

2) Quid Pro Quo If I allow google to profile me via using gmail I am actually receiving a useful service in return. I get large storage and the convenience of easy to use web based email.

There is absolutely no quid pro quo with Phorm and their webwise. "Relevant and targetted ads" arent a benefit to me as I ignore online ads. If I want to buy something online then I will go look for it myself, thank you very much. Secondly, the much spun "antiphishing" technology is nothing that isnt already available in IE7 and Firefox.

On another point I am getting really peeved with the Phorm spin that this is somehow an advancement in privacy because they are at least trying to anonymise data. They point their fingers at google and say look what they are doing. They store data blah blah. To use an analogy, it just makes me think of two peeping-toms peeking into someones house and one (Phorm) points to the other and says "Look how bad HE is. Hes snooping with both eyes open. We only snoop with one of our eyes open."

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Another example of advertisers over-stepping their bounds. Presumably, those poor Chinese customers weren't offered a proper opt-out either...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7311242.stm

The mobile company affected has said it will block adverts from 7 advertising companies involved.

A Chinese government official has been quoted as saying ""We urge parties concerned to beef up self-scrutiny to correct their wrongdoing, which is profit driven in defiance of public interests"

It's a sad day when the Chinese government speaks out for it's citizens' privacy more than the UK government sticks up for ours. (are you listening, Virgin Media?)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Phorm Comms Team has returned to the wordpress site again:

http://understrictembargo.wordpress....-of-pr-crisis/

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

My understanding was that the RIPA (2000) was introduced so that the police state had sweeping powers to spy on us. I think it ironic that this Act might be a way of stopping Phorm.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi found this, worth a read if you have not seen it already.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3636559.stm

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don't but I know many who do. I have lost count of the number of people I know using things like Plesk, phpmyadmin etc. over regular HTTP.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 18:00 ---------- Previous post was at 17:56 ----------

So share your facts? I have seen half a dozen people now who have been told by VM CS that the system is live and there is no opt out. So if you have facts to the contrary as you state you do, please share them.

Alexander Hanff

---------- Post added at 18:03 ---------- Previous post was at 18:00 ----------

Your connection is one of millions. You have no evidence they are not testing this technology with some of their customers so please stop assuming you know all when in fact you don't.

If people have been told by VM customer services that Phorm is Live and has no opt out, you nor anyone else has the right to call them a liar.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Half a dozen? Ok thats worrying. Surely even VM cant be stupid enough to go live with this without consent, without an opt-out?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Wonder if the Phorm Comms Team will pay any attention to Daljit's next Phorm related blog entry...

http://understrictembargo.wordpress....e-phorm-storm/

States the obvious really, especially the last paragraph - but maybe Virgin Media don't understand that...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Looking back through the thread it's pretty obvious to me that it's CS's supposed statement that Sirius is doubting and the gullibility of YetiCatcher for accepting it.

I certainly wouldn't believe what VM CS state as fact when countless VM users are alert to it and hundreds of people running Dephormation haven't reported it.

Do you?
:angel:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

i dont think virgin are stupid but isnt it in the t&c that trials/tests can be applied to the conx and also the pro-phorm people ie virgin/bt/cpwh are of the belief that this system is totally anonymose so no harm done!!:rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

that is an interesting one

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have a friend who works as a VM engineer and he is hitting a brick wall every time he asks questions about Phorm. He says it is not an isolated problem either, non of the engineers he knows have been able to get any info from the superiors about whether or not Phorm is already being tested. And he is not a nobody technician either, he is one of the people responsible for installing the upgrades VM are doing to a selected number of test customers with regards the next speed jump (50Mbit I think or something like that).

If VM won't even answer questions from their own engineers, how can anyone have confidence they are not already -at least- trying this technology? What do they have to hide from their own engineers?

I am becoming increasingly concerned that VM -are- actually running trials given the complete lack of public response to this issue and the number of customers who are being told by CS that it is already in use and there is no opt out.

I am not prepared to call anyone who has been told this by CS that they are liars or they are wrong and neither should anyone else given the very large shroud of secrecy surrounding this issue with VM at the moment.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:td: Just because BT/Virgin/CPWH believes its anonymous doesnt make it so and just because they believe it complies with RIPA doesnt make it so. Its up to a court to decide and I hope it gets tested in court really soon.

Correct me if I am wrong but didnt the Foundation for Information Policy Research, in their letter to the Information Commissioner Office ,argue that consumer consent was key and that a simple change to Terms and Conditions wouldnt be enough to comply with RIPA? Again would need to be something tested in court I reckon.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If Phorm is live whats the best way of checking ?

Will dephormation alert me ?