Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

It'll be listed in 'expenses' no doubt :D

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

The Labour government knew that the government's changes would not stand up to scrutiny, so decided not to throw good money after bad on it. And the source you link to reckons that Rwanda would not have acted as a deterrent anyway. Worth a read and thank for sharing it.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

What do you mean by taking France on?

I think it's hard to find a country with an acceptable human rights record to take unlawful migrants on a cost effective basis. Rwanda was only meant to take small numbers and was very expensive.

Your link was sceptical about the Australian process as it found that migrants now come by plane instead of boat.

Trying to tackle the symptoms rather than the cause clearly doesn't work. You need to analyse where they're coming from and help resolve the issues there. That's something for a coalition of the willing. However, it's not something your average politician will advocate for because the British public have been led to believe there are easy solutions when there are clearly not.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

And you’re going Nigel on us.

This is a discussion forum, the idea is you say what you mean. You don’t insinuate stuff so you can wait for other people to road test it for you by saying it out loud, then deny that’s what you meant when it turns out to be unworkable, idiotic or just plain nasty.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Why should others have to guess what you mean, when you’re too Faragist to clarify it?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Exactly!

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:tu:

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

What would be wrong with you saying that in the first place, if it’s what you actually mean?

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

The cause is varied and widespread, much of it with a snowball in a hot place chance of changing it.

Seems to me the British Public are becoming increasingly aware there are no easy solutions, and are probably starting to think a tougher 'harder' line is more acceptable than just carrying on getting nowhere.

Opinions vary of course ;)

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

It’s called “imagination”. I can’t be bothered to ask you to explain what you mean by “faragist”. My imagination doesn’t tend toward what your accusation implies - which I have to guess.

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What’s wrong with you picking up the baton on what I tendered? You are gabbing on about process. Your imagination can provide the substance. All that you and Hugh are looking for (in this case) is a line of attack rather than debate on substance.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

A tougher 'harder' line is not possible whether some people feel it's acceptable or not. It's presented as an easy solution but it isn't.

We're stuck between a rock and a hard place on this.

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I'm sorry Seph but on this point, Chris, Hugh and Maggie are correct. Just be brave and say what you mean. This is a plain old discussion forum, not a diplomatic ball.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

Because this is a discussion forum, not a battle rap.

Finding lines of attack - or, indeed, points of agreement - is part and parcel of a discussion. Just say what you mean and let others agree or disagree with you. If you don’t, you just end up looking like you lack the moral fibre to express or defend your beliefs.

Re: Starmer’s chronicles
 

So we have to imagine what you mean, but you can’t imagine what we mean?

Irony skids off the tracks, careens wildly down the embankment, smashes through a circus, bulldozes a mink farm, and plows into the river, where it bursts into flame, then rolls over and explodes, raining down smoking clown shrapnel and flaming weasels over a terrified countryside…