Cable Forum - Trump gets fact checked

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Re: Trump gets fact checked

The pardon or ability to commute sentences is really dodgy but I think the main problem is when people use it for their friends and family as is the case with Clinton and Trump. Most of the time it does seem to be used reasonably responsibly.

What they should certainly do is remove the ability to pardon anyone between the November election and Inauguration if you are on the way out. Clinton's pardoning of his brother happened just before Bush took over. Obama's pardoning of Chelsea Manning happened just before Trump.

Each President seems to have one dodgy Pardon when they know it's their last time at it.

Re: Trump gets fact checked

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mick (Post 36043226)

Trump doesn't need protecting, he was acquitted in his Impeachment trial by the Senate. Had he commuted the sentence of Stone while the Robert Mueller investigation had been still live, then I would be nodding in agreement with you.

But Stone claims he was setup, also said his trial was met with unconstitutional blocks to his defense.

You need to re-read what I wrote, he has not pardoned him, he has commuted his sentence, the conviction remains on file. A Pardon removes all federal convictions and sentence is dropped, if time is still being served in a U.S Penitentiary.

You go look at who and what past presidents have pardoned, Bill Clinton pardoned his own brother.

There is no review of pardons. There have been historical attempts to curb the presidential pardon power, to no avail. This issue, too, was brought up in the Constitutional Convention, that pardons must be granted with the consent of the US Senate, but the measure was defeated on the vote of eight states to one.

The President need not provide a reason for a pardon and the courts and Congress have no legal authority to approve, disapprove, reject, or accept a pardon. Currently, the only way to change the pardon power is by constitutional amendment.

Clinton pardoned his older brother, Roger, for obvious familial reasons. He pardoned a pair of Hasidic Jews convicted of defrauding the government, restoring their civil rights but leaving monetary penalties intact.

In a controversial move, he pardoned fugitive financier Marc Rich, after application for clemency, in part, from the state of Israel, which had benefited from Rich's philanthropic gestures, a Federal Prosecutor was appointed to investigate this pardon, however they were later replaced by one and only, James Comey, who expressed that there were no illegalities in Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich.

President Gerald Ford pardoned President Nixon of any wrong-doing in order to put a close to the Nixon era for good.

President Jimmy Carter, pardoned all the Vietnam War draft dodgers to help in the long healing process the nation endured after that war.

Was he protecting him before or after his acquittal?

Judging by how close the Bush Gore election was I'm hardly going out on a limb by saying Clinton pardoning Rich got Bush over the line into the White House. Another one that springs to my mind is Casper Weinberger over Iran Contra, that had a certain kind of stench about it to.

---------- Post added at 04:22 ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36043228)

If I lived there the question in my mind would be, is it being used how it was intended to be when created, if it isn't it should be ammended or scrapped imo

Re: Trump gets fact checked

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36043096)

Probably should be in the future. It's odd the clearance to run for the President seems to have less disclosure than most other checks for high-level jobs. Obviously those jobs don't require it gets released to the public but they're the ones 'hiring' you in the end.

There's a difference between releasing information to the public and the authorities. High judges have all sort of personal information combed over but that doesn't mean the newspapers get it.

Re: Trump gets fact checked

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36043228)

But an interesting fact arose just before Trump Impeachment trial at the beginning of the year. Former presidents can still be Impeached, the power to do so is in the Constitution, however, the primary objective of "Impeachment", is to remove from office, it would be extremely rare for it to be exercised after a president left office.

If Congress, in 1974 had imagined the possibility of President Richard Nixon, rehabilitating his reputation to a point where he may have thought to have a chance at holding a future office however much very unlikely it sounds, there is an absolute chance, a bipartisan House and Senate steaming ahead with an impeachment and trial, in order to bar that possibility through a judgement of disqualification.

---------- Post added at 12:58 ---------- Previous post was at 12:29 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36043231)

If I lived there the question in my mind would be, is it being used how it was intended to be when created, if it isn't it should be ammended or scrapped imo

I do not agree it should be scrapped but it does seem that the pardon power oversteps the balance of powers of the other two branches of government, the legislature, House and Senate and Judicial branch, the Supreme Court, however, could a Supreme Court rule a pardon null and void, probably not, because the Supreme Court is bound by the written Constitution, that's why an amendment is required to change the system.

The Pardon and Commutation powers when used correctly do serve a purpose, Trump granted Clemency to one time drug trafficker, an African American woman, Alice Johnson, who was sentenced to life imprisonment with no chance of parole, in 1996, upon her release, she had already served over 21 years in prison, an absolute excessive sentence IMO. A campaign was sought to get her released, a petition was filed for her release, while President Obama was in office. Her application was denied just before Obama left office.

Re: Trump gets fact checked

Yeah, I think there is a role for pardons in the case of genuine injustices being corrected. Sometimes it's also used by a President to signal a change in policy. I.E Obama also pardoned a bunch of people who were serving long term sentences for drug possession who were basically caught out by the three-strikes rule. People could end up with lifetime sentences for minor drug possession charges.