Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Well, you keep explaining what he means, so I assumed you were two minds thinking as (n)one.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

no he didn't ,in the context of the whole post he meant all migrants

you will note he makes no distinction whatsoever ,you should stop trying to defend the indefensible Gary ..it will give you a bad name

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

It's a combination of things which makes the UK atractive for migrants, illegal or otherwise. Generosity in absolute cash terms is hard to assess and all relative, but what we have here are certain systems and benefits that are relatively easy to claim and easy to abuse (and that includes the indigenous population by the way). As has already been discussed, child benefit is one such benefit that can easily equate to an annual salary in certain E. European countries and the children don't even have to be living here. It's not a huge amount to you or I but a vast sum to these people and if they have kids it's automatic. The shambolic immigration system and the rights asylum seekers enjoy here also means that it's easy for people to overstay and disappear into the black economy. We know large numbers have done this and many overstay for years before they're caught so clearly the system isn't rigorous enough. Even when they're caught if they've married, had children etc. they will in all probability not be deported so yet again the system encourages people to break the rules and can be an easy touch.

It's not just the cash which makes any country attractive to migrants, it's how easily things can be obtained, what protections are offered, what support services there are, how easily they can disappear (in large cities like London for example) and/or get work, how effective the relevant border authorities are at doing their jobs, how rigorous the checks to avoid sham marriages, ID fraud and so on are etc. etc. We can compare ourseves with other countries until the cows come home but I don't see queues of migrants trying to get out of here or jumping out of their lorries in Europe so they don't wind up on the UK. These people often don't speak any English so for these people it's not even a common language which makes the UK appealing. I believe the combination of good, relatively easily obtained benefits/welfare and shambolic policing of immigration in general is what makes the UK a soft touch and that's not to deny that some migrants can have a very tough time here.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle6702471.ece

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Well one of us must be reading it wrong then.

Right, ok. i'll keep out of it. but you won't hurt him much will you? :(

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Some good points there, (in particular child benefits, which really ought to be paid at a level commensurate with the standard of living in the country where the child lives) but it seems we are (once again) conflating legal migrants, illegal migrants and asylum seekers which all have differing rights (or lack thereof). Anyway, in a nutshell: These forums are awash with posts from people claiming that the UK is a soft touch where every tom, dick and harry can show up and we'll just throw money at them, when the reality is that the benefits system in the UK is pretty basic compared to many countries in continental Europe (as are, I should add the majority of public services). If things were bad economically in my home country, then a life on benefits in the UK definitely wouldn't be my first choice.

What's more, as was linked to earlier, Brits are excessively concerned about immigration compared to European counterparts with higher levels of immigration. Altogether, it's hard to escape the impression of a xenophobic lot of whinging POMs that simply want more for less money. There. I've said it ;)

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Good post, Osem.

makes a change to see someone else discussing the thing. instead of the usual asking of questions and analysis of ones mental state :)

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

And which countries have a higher level of immigration than we do?:erm:

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

But it's easier to get into the UK. and they might have family or friends already here waiting for them.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

From post #10:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereport..._about_im.html

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

well according to the Eurostat figures (table 9) for 2006 which are the last year that figures are available it is

spain= 840,844
germany=661,855
UK =529,008

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

According to the survey quoted by Mark Easton (available here) the proportion of immigrants relative to total population in the 8 countries surveyed is as follows:

Canada: 20.2%
USA: 13.7%
Germany: 12.9%
Spain: 12.2%
Netherlands: 10.9%
UK: 10.8%
France: 8.4%
Italy: 7%

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Doesn't history account for some of that though.The European continent has been open for migration for far longer than Britain and it was easier since it is 1 land mass .We are an island nation and in past centuries mass migration usually equated to conquest or at least war ,maybe it's just a lingering effect of being an island nation used to having to protect itself ...or it could be that we are just a bunch of whinging poms wanting more for less ..as is our god given right i might add :D

---------- Post added at 23:48 ---------- Previous post was at 23:44 ----------


whichever figures you look at (and those you supplied are probably more upto date) the UK is not top of the list for migration ,in fact comparing the 2 lists the UK has dropped a few places

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

Well, isn't that xenophobia in a nutshell?

I should add that the copious amounts of red tops available and consumed by the discerning British public doesn't help either...

Yes, but the difference in perception is staggering. 59% percent of Britons say there are too many immigrants compared to 27% in Germany and The Netherlands. That's despite the fact that England (as opposed to the UK) has only recently overtaken The Netherlands in terms of population density. Population density in the UK is still considerably lower than it is in The Netherlands.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

You really don't get it, do you, Gary?

Osem made a measured post, with rationally put points and reasoned discourse - most people respect this sort of post, even if some disagree with the position.

You, on the the other, tend not to discuss things, and post such bon mots as High on bile, low on content.

Part of the point of forums (the discussing part) is asking/answering questions - I realise you have difficulty with the answering part, due to lack of intellectual rigour and perhaps an unfortunate willingness to embrace facts that don't adhere to your prejudices, but do try harder, there's a good lad....;)

btw, very few people discuss your mental developmental state any longer - it's fairly well established by your posts which part of the Bell Curve you are on; ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of, but you seem to revel in it.

Re: A new flood of migrants ?
 

See what I mean about the usual analysis of ones mental state?

Hugh, if only you put as much effort into actually discussing the topic rather than the poster. we'd have a good debate.
I haven't seen much from you in that way. you skip the bits that you can debate on, and choose the parts where you can score points on.

and is that the 3rd time now you've quoted "I hate Migrants"?
I think everyone heard you the first time.

It just seems to me that if you don't like the 'opposing' view in any subject. you have these inane episodes. :)