Re: NTL unbundle digital from Telco
 

>NTl arn't the only company to offer new customers deals and offering
>deals .to existing customers to keep them when they threaten to leave, >virtually every single company i can think of does that.

Maybe so but it doesn't make it right.
Ntl just came bottom of yet another customer satisfaction survey. IMO not because their products are too bad but because they always never seem to pass up on a chance to further alienate their existing customer base.

The telephone DTV rip off is always gonna be a thorn in the side but the decision to charge existing customers £50.00 to update "NTL'S" obsolete equipment is just astonishing.
Particularly so in the case of users who recieve BB through a STB as the only reason for this, I can think of, is that it saved some bucks for Ntl to do it that way in the 1st place.
Nice one Ntl now we all hate you just that little bit more.
Of course from Ntl's point of view I imagine existing customers are seen as no more than a resource, to be manipulated, for the maximum benefit of the shareholders.
Just as they are by it seems most companies. The point is why does Ntl GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO RUB IT IN!!
A sad , sad, state of affairs..................

Re: NTL unbundle digital from Telco
 

No they are not but treating one customer more favourably than another only causes animosity if they can do it for one they can do it for all and its useally long standing customers who get the worst or no deals. It is really bad pratice and discurtious not look after the long term customer base. loyalty stands for nothing with NTL. Do NTL really think that customers don't compare notes ?

Re: NTL unbundle digital from Telco
 

Different thing altogether.

We're not talking about phones bundled with BB, we're talking about phones bundled with DTV.

the impact is

1) If you're a BT customer and happy with your BT service, and want to subscribe to DTV from NTL, you HAVE to pay £10.50 for an NTL phone line you don't want or need

2) If you're an NTL customer with DTV (and a phone-line from NTL) and you want to use Broadband you're restricted to using NTL unless (again) you want to pay for a second phone line you don't need. (incidentally, even if/when we get "Naked" broadband services, there'll still be an additional charge for use of the local loop)

Thus by mandatory bundling of the NTL phone line with DTV, NTL are raising an anticompetitive barrier for DTV users who wish to use a different telco or ISP

(I came across this recently when I trialled Vonage VoIP. I found my 100Mb upstream link couldn't cope with both Vonage and my daily PC usage, and wanted to look for an alternate ISP with a better upstream bandwidth capacity)

earlier today (before I read this thread) I sent an email to ofcom to see if I could find out their views on this situation. If I get anything worthwhile back I'll let you know

Re: NTL unbundle digital from Telco
 

3) If you're an NTL customer with DTV and a phone-line from NTL and your are happy with your NTL service, and you want to subscribe to Broadband from BT, you HAVE to pay £10.50 for an BT phone line you don't want or need.

Thus by mandatory bundling of the BT phone line with Broadband, BT are raising an anticompetitive barrier for NTL DTV users.

Re: NTL unbundle digital from Telco
 

Exactly. It cuts both ways.

And, incidentally, 'anti-competitive' is quite a specific legal term. There is no way that NTL could be held to be acting in such a manner because they simply don't have a large enough share of the market, and the way their system operates does not prevent you from taking services from anyone else - the presence of an NTL phone point in your lounge does not stop you putting a BT one in as well.

Many manufacturers bundle products because they want you to buy in to their less popular ones as well as the ones you actually want to buy. Sky and NTL both sell packages of TV channels, instead of channels individually. You don't hear so many people complaining about paying for the dozens of channels they pay for but never watch.

Re: NTL unbundle digital from Telco
 

My points entirely. In order to have my ISP (as I don't want ntl broadband) I have to have a BT line, plus I use BT for my telephone calls as I trust BT to give me a correct and fully itemised bill at noe xtra charge bill plus ntl won't provide calelr display and the calls are cheaper with BT. Also, as the telephone line in the street is 16 feet in the air it isn't likely to be vandalsied unlike the cable line which could be vandalised at any time and if I ahd my telephone with ntl and it was vandalsied I;'d have no telephone and no internet for the duration.

I just think it's a rip-off that ntl forces people who can't have Sky but want subscription TV to be forced to pay for a telephone line which in most cases are neither wanted nor needed for many different reasons. That's the issue.

Re: NTL unbundle digital from Telco
 

I am finding these posts where somebody says, "I think it is unfair that NTL force you to take a phone line with TV" but also says, "I am forced to have a BT phone line because..." more and more unbelievable!

How can anybody think one is OK where as the other is not?

Nobody is forcing you to have subscription TV. There are many more people in the country who cannot even have cable TV so if they cannot have Sky they have no choice. You are lucky and have a choice. If you choose not to take NTL because it costs more than Sky, then that is your choice. Frankly, NTL can charge whatever they feel like for TV - it is not an essential utility like water, gas or electricity!

Re: NTL unbundle digital from Telco
 

I think it's more to do with the knowledge that to get ADSL to work you need to plug it into a telephone line. The same is not true of television (except, of course, for Sky - though as far as i'm aware it doesn't matter which provider)

Re: NTL unbundle digital from Telco
 

Just a crazy twist to this, what would happen if NTL said that from tomorrow you could have DTV by itself, but to get BB you would also need to subscrible to a phone line (I know this is a technical unncessary).

This would level the playing field wouldn't it. Triple play customers would be unaffected.

Re: NTL unbundle digital from Telco
 

It's actually no different. Regardless of provider, you are still forced to have a wired phone line if you want Sky. What if (like one of my friends did for years) you just want a mobile, and don't want a wired phone line? You can't get digital TV..

I wonder if a more likely explanation is that there is a group of people on this forum who assume that because NTL do it, it is bad. If Sky (or any other ISP) do the same thing, that's OK.


I don't really see how NTL is being anticompetitive for most people. Most people in this country can get both Sky and BT (in fact, it is a legal requirement that BT's service is available to every house, even if it is not enabled). So, most people can move to Sky and BT if NTL's actions become a problem.

Admittedly, that doesn't help those in Rented accomodation who cannot install a sky dish.

Re: NTL unbundle digital from Telco
 

You do not need any phone line to get Sky DTV. You need a phone line with Sky to take advantage of the interactive services discount which gives you free STB and installation. You also need a phone line connected to all your Sky digiboxes if you want to take advantage of reduced price multiroom subscriptions. Certain interactive features and ordering PPV movies on Sky need a return path which is provided by the telephone line. If you only want the FTA channels on Sky you neither need a phone line or Sky subscription.

Freeview is also DTV which doesn't need a phone line either.

Re: NTL unbundle digital from Telco
 

I don't have a choice as I cannot have Sky because I am one of those who ahs to live in a communal building so therefore cannot have a satellite dish and am therefore froced to have cable to watch multi-channel TV, or even TV at all becuase the analogue picture is unwatchable.

Re: NTL unbundle digital from Telco
 

But there are people like you who also cannot have cable TV at all. You do have a choice - they do not!

Re: NTL unbundle digital from Telco
 

his choice is cable tv or a poor analogue signal, same as me. My alternative is using a indoor aerial for a spotty picture.

Re: NTL unbundle digital from Telco
 

Yes, I have exactly the same choice!

My point is that at least we have this choice. People only a couple of miles away from where I live do not have cable as an option at all!