Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

What counts as pre-work British attitudes? Because homosexuality used to be illegal, women didn't get the vote and even child labour was varying degrees of legal (dependent on what they counted as 'child') within recent British history.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Also abortion was illegal, making it legal cut the risks from back street abortionists.

In fact I'd hate to go back to pre-woke times. There were too many horrors associated with those times. Slums,no healthcare,poor water supply,sewage in the streets,rampant disease(oops,still got those) and all the ills that apparently made us the greatest nation in the world.

No thank you. I want us to be very woke and very much inclined to improve EVERYONE'S lot in life wherever they come from and what ever their ethnicity.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

The Telegraph have been using it in their headlines and opinion pieces, and so the Sir Bufton Tufton "groupthink" follow on - they think it's an insult... :D

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Why are the negatives "perceived"? I think these are pretty real negatives to those we colonised. Of course, there are benefits to imperial rule: nice new roads, the "British" way of running things, etc. but I doubt, the invaded view these as what they needed to "focus" on.

The bottom line is we have a recent* past that, in a modern context, can and should be viewed as containing many wrongs and as such, a recognition of these need to happen. It is the quiet admiration of our imperial past that drives a lot of today's English Nationalism. Until we recognise this past is flawed, we will never be able to make an objective assessment of our place in the world.


* recent meaning in the last 150 years

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Regongnizing your past is flawed (like everyone elses) does not mean you have to apologise for it.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebri...sking-22313762

Yet another Blatantly biased corporation own goal.These woman so despise their own race.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I have to say that I'm not surprised in the least by the number of TV, Radio, Film, Music, Sports 'personalities' (with the personality equivalent to a bucket of well used cat litter) that are spouting absolute garbage in search of their 15 minutes seconds of fame.

I deliberately left Journalists off the list because they've been at it for years :D

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

"Their whiteness is a privilege" ? WTF ? Yet another complete moron.


(and what's a Karen ? is that an insult ?)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

A karen is a newish internet slang for a busybody woman who loudly complains and asks to see the manager.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

From the article...
Wonder what they call the male equivalent?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Gammon?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Kevin ?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

There isn't really a male equivelent. It only really gets applied to women.

It's usually where someone uploads a video of a angry women yelling at someone. I don't especially like the trend because it usually involves a video that was taken without that person's consent (although you don't need it to record publically but still), often without the full context and without knowing what the person was going through. Then it goes viral, some woman is completely publically shamed without due process and we don't know if they deserve it.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I’d say gammon is the obvious equivalent, it’s obviously meant to convey the blotchy red face of an angry man aged 50 plus. But because it doesn’t actually use a male name, feminists like to conveniently overlook it so they can complain that Karen is a sexist concept.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

It's Ken ..

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Can a black . . . ok BAME . . person be a 'Karen' or a 'Gammon'?

Just wondering . . . you know . . equality and all that :D

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Metropolitan Police Commissioner apologises to sprinter Bianca Williams after stop and search
https://news.sky.com/story/bianca-wi...earch-12023936

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Ignore the BLM extremists, this is an example of why so many people in this country are supporting the principles of the movement.

Maybe some would pop up and say that it was their own fault for driving a Mercedes, wouldn't surprise me at all ..

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Just for ianch99 :D

An erratically driven Mercedes with blacked out windows - apparently.

Until this stuff hit the news I'd never heard of the 'complainants' and certainly wouldn't recognise them. All I'd see are two people in a car (sadly associated) with crimes . . and in London I'd have been tempted to shoot the shit out of it first :p:

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

But ONLY about the handcuffing. They don't seem to have been handcuffed initially, as is it her seen holding the child? They DIDN'T simply, quietly and calmly get out of the car, as normal people would do. She had to be almost dragged out. If that you're awkward, then you're acting suspiciously. What's so complicated about that?

---------- Post added at 12:51 ---------- Previous post was at 12:45 ----------

As happened at a BLM protest barrier in Atlanta.
Link

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Because he was waiting for someone to post something like

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I thought I'd oblige, no point keeping the man waiting :D

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Do you have to be so rude?

Hate to break it to you but in the real world, there are actually people who get triggered by this sort of laughable "reporting":

Shocking moment raging Mercedes driver tries to mow down police officer after he was stopped for driving while disqualified as he is jailed for 12 months

Police officer tries to smash window of stolen Mercedes with his baton before car speeds off into a dead end and suspected thieves try to escape but are caught

Mercedes driver flees scene of crash on foot leaving an unbuckled BABY in the vehicle after smashing into police car during a two-mile pursuit

---------- Post added at 08:26 ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 ----------

The really sad part is that you probably meant it ;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

oooohh that hurts ooohh I'm triggered now ooooh I'm going to . . .
:scratch: oh hang on a minute, you probably own a Mercedes don't you, come on admit it . . does it cause you issues? . . . is it a black one? :D ;) :Peaceman:

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Seems we have veered right away from discussing anything sensible.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

True I'm afraid, however I think that's the way the whole BLM thing has decended into ridiculous and petty arguements about statues, street names, pub names, stop & search, and the need to employ more BAME people whatever the cost :dozey:

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

+++1.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

It is and always has been, about having total power and control over everybody and everything.

Just look at the number of people that have been forced out for having the "wrong" opinions, or simply not expressing support. They turn violent when certain words are allegedly used by White people, but mysteriously Black people use them each and every day without incident. It's a case of "you can only do and say what we allow you to". Try watching a few TV series or Films that are set in a Black environment.

Just one example
:shocked: How? What other motive was there meant to be?

Strange that the attackers friend, was filming the attack from the beginning.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Can we get away from relentless point scoring at all? Can we actually come up with some sort of way forward? Can we actually become a diverse society for real?Also can we really relate what happens in the US with the situation here?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Use of the N word is a prime example of this. Routinely used by black youths to each other, but deemed extremely offensive if others use the term.

It is either offensive, or it isn't, regardless of who uses the term.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Think of the word queer.The word that the gay fraternity took for their own and used..How is it different for black youths to use the N word in the same way?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

You can't claim to be traumatised by somebody saying it, if you and your mates regularly say it. Common sense. As I said, it's all about having power and control over people.
Link

:shocked:
If giving up "guaranteed physical safety" means mixing more with Black people, isn't that implying that Black people are the actual problem?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Context is everything. Much as we might crave simplicity, it's not a binary yes it is, no it isn't here.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Got it

so . . . an Irishman can tell jokes about the Irish, a Jew can tell jokes about Jews, a black person can tell jokes about black people . . . and a white person can't laugh if he hears them

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

The first two people could well be white and laughing at the jokes.
If you wanted to simplify it, it's more in the person telling the joke than the person laughing at it.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

What about when it's in the SAME context? Eg Singing a song written by a Black person? Black people do use the N word in a derogatory way. If it's about context, then the word used is irrelevant. It is just a label. If it's used in a derogatory context, then whatever words are used are still derogatory. If the word was replaced with the word "Apple", would it make whatever was said, less derogatory? Remember it's derived from a scientific anthropological term.


The very definition of not being "racist", means that you have to treat all races in the same manner, in the same circumstances. Different treatment = racist?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Context is all...

as Charles M. Blow wrote
You seem to imply either a word is acceptable or it isn't, but that's a very simplistic view - you would never have been called the N word or Queer as an insult (or probably in any way) as you are neither, so who are you to tell someone who has had it used against them how they should use it - I know lots of Yorkshiremen who call each their Yorkshire friends "you tight barsteward", but if someone who they didn't know from London said it, they might take offence.

As I said, context is all, and like life, not black and white - ymmv.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

It's also about who else is around to overhear. Eg " Irishmen telling an "Irish" joke to each other, and somebody else who is not Irish overhears, then that person is allowed to take "offence". Just a perverted mechanism for allowing the maximum number of people to make a bogus complaint.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I've explained that it's not binary and you would have to examine the context. For example, if a record producer sang it the singer to emphasise a different way of singing a verse, then that would not be offensive. However, if a known white racist sang it then that would likely be offensive. It's about empathy and putting yourself in another's shoes - not looking for a binary answer to nuanced issues.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Nothing to do with context, but how much control of others, you're trying to impose. The offending words ARE used by the groups, to and about, complete strangers. People can easily choose to brush things off.
Eg A recent TV programme about Liverpool FC, had Black footballer Howard Gayle commenting on abuse from the opposing fans(Bayern Munich). He said that it "inspired him". The aim of the chants was to try and put him off. White players have also been taunted, but they are just expected to put up with it.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

That sounds like an urban myth to me.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Still nothing to do with context. Repeating the words DOESN'T make it racist.:rolleyes: If anything, quite the opposite as they have listened to the song and know the words. So the only people that have been criticised, sacked, forced to resign, etc. for repeating certain song lyrics have all been racist?:rolleyes:
There was a case where it was a discussion/meeting/lecture about use of offensive words, which common sense means that those words are likely to be used. Can't remember what happened to the guy, whether he was sacked or merely heavily criticised, but the context was valid, and not aimed at anybody in particular or in general. It's just that somebody else at the meeting wanted to impose control. What else could it be? The context was valid, so according to you, that would make it ok.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Football's a tough environment with coin-throwing, abusive shouting and previously, banana-throwing. And racist chants are rife in some countries still.
But I'm sure you're not suggesting that black players get an easy ride but white players are expected to just grin and bear it?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I see we're all still going round in those wonderful circles that make discussions so amusing . . . isn't it great how one single post can cause so much angst and general whataboutery :LOL:


*checks the latest from Yellowstone & NASA

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Urban myth or Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986?
Again, people have actually been sacked, forced to resign, heavily criticised, etc for having a private conversation that was overheard by a uninvolved third party. Are you really saying that there have been no examples of that happening? Can't remember specific details.

Link

"Thought" as in imagined or falsely claimed. It means certain groups can bully people, if they choose to.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

+1

It's usually the 'allegation' that causes the problem, even if you're totally innocent you end up guilty by proxy . . . no smoke without fire etc

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Their complaints are taken on board, but White players have to put up with the taunts, and don't really have any avenue to pursue. The reason for the taunts is the SAME. That being so, then both sets should be treated the SAME. That is equality. Do the White players try to get fans or even whole clubs banned? Of course not. In my example, did Howard Gayle try to get the fans banned? No, he recognised it for what it was, ie taunts to try and put him off. If there had been something that could've been aimed at a White player as a taunt, then it would've been.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

How about this then? Apparently it was wrong because "No, it was made to be sung by Carmen Twillie and Lebo M. and an African choir."

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

My answer remains - it's about empathy and putting yourself in another's shoes - not looking for a binary answer to nuanced issues.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

So we have to all bow or kneel down to their every whim and demand, no matter matter how frivolous or ridiculous? That is what it amounts to.
Do White people have to stop walking etc in the countryside, because BAME bullies claim they are somehow excluded?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

You're going off-piste into the world of strawmen. I've not said this. I've given you the basic principles to apply as has Hugh.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Citing previous posts is common sense and saves reinventing the wheel and boring the poor thread-followers.
Going to the countryside - if you can't see this as an out and out strawman then there's little I can realistically do to help.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

A small number of idiots making extreme remarks about this do not reflect mainstream reality, is just like the EDL and the BNP do not reflect how we in the UK think - it’s just a straw man argument.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Nah, I own a Skoda .. with tinted rear windows :)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Ah, your standard answer to anything it seems.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

:D
I always wanted (still fancy) the Skoda Superb, could never find one I could afford :(

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I give up trying to get any sense from anyone in this thread.

I'll be back if any moderating needs doing. Otherwise I'm out of here.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

You beat me to it Paul.;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Unfortunately, putting it on a poster doesn't make it true.

You know as well as everyone else that companies are setting such targets, I believe the BBC's are mentioned earlier in this very topic.

The majority of Black people are indeed reasonable, they dont take offence at everything with the word black in it, they dont want special treatment, they dont feel the need to pull down statues. Unfortunately, the minority do, and they are the ones shouting loudest atm, if it continues I dont think it will end well.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I don't think that it is any different, I think it's exactly the same scenario.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Doesn't make him wrong though. ;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Doesnt make him right either. :sleep:

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I think you're right - in the UK the conversation is less extreme. People aren't taking offence at words with black in, etc. There isn't widespread removal of statues.
In terms of targets I do see monitoring as useful. If 15% of the working population in an organisation's area is BAME and it only employs 5% BAME there is a potential issue, surely?
It's not about special treatment but it could be about having apprenticeships for entry as oppose to 100% graduates. It could be about advertising in places that everyone will see and not relying on the existing employees to recommend a friend.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Statues are being removed or are under attack, Names are being erased from history.

Doesn't mean all of that 15% is available, qualified, or even suitable. Eg sections where women don't go to work, or they don't speak English will straight away reduce that 15%. Should any business/organisation that employs more BAME than in the area be forced to reduce that number? If not, you end up with a situation where they over-represented overall. Same argument goes for women. I should imagine if you looked at small non-white owned businesses, the diversity wouldn't be that great.

There is a huge gulf between entry-level apprenticeship and post-graduate. How is that not asking for special treatment? How many firms never advertise in any form? Fictitious argument, as usual.

---------- Post added at 18:53 ---------- Previous post was at 18:41 ----------

How is it "strawmen".
Link

No FACTUAL basis for feeling anything like that. They just have to claim it is, and it magically that is proof. In non-white countries, how many people go rambling, camping etc, just for the enjoyment of it? The culture of doing those things, just isn't there in the first place. THEIR problem, not ours.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I think many who have a nice safe & clean job in an office environment (no offence intended to those who do) have a slightly skewed view of some things.

The majority of BAME people looking for work will be nothing like the 'graduates' you're probably used to seeing in and around that sector.

Many probably come from the 'poorer' sectors and, like anyone from a 'working class' background, will be struggling to find anything above minimum wage employment in areas such as factories, hotel work, shops, etc . . in which they, and eastern Europeans, are usually well represented.

If the Gov't and other parties want a higher representation of BAME in roles requiring higher education, they need to make that education available at no cost to the families who can barely afford to live . . . but that then introduces a surge of non BAME into the system too - catch 22 yet again ;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

How many are achieving A level standard? Student loans cover the further education costs for them, and everybody else.
Link
Education to A level is free. Afro-Caribbean is even lower at 3.4%(only Roma/Traveller is lower). So Chinese have a 7.5 to 1 advantage, and White kids have a 3.2 to 1 advantage. Black Africans can manage 6.1%, so it can't be racism in any way.
That's before you get into numbers. 131,947 White is always going to outnumber 10,475 Black.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

1. A Level 7 apprenticeship is equivalent to a Masters. You can get great qualifications on the job that don't cripple you financially but may reduce your ability to go out on mid-week pub crawls!
2. "Do White people have to stop walking etc in the countryside, because BAME bullies claim they are somehow excluded?"
- Why is someone a bully just because they say they feel uncomfortable in the countryside? Am I missing something? And the report doesn't say that anyone shouldn't go into the countryside.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Level 7 apprenticeship

Entry requirements can include at least five GCSEs grades A* – C (9 – 4 on the new grading system), including English and maths subjects, and Level 3 qualifications, including A levels, NVQs, or a BTEC. Some employers will expect or require applicants to have studied subjects relevant to the apprenticeship.


I refer you to this snippet
and then, of course, you have to get the job (apprenticeship) to start with ;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Link
So where are level 7s excluded? Meaningless example. They are not the typical Apprenticeship level.
Only levels 6 and 7 are degree level and they've only been around 5 years. Not enough time to make that much of an impact.
If you can't (or can't be bothered to) reach A level standard, how likely are you to reach degree level?


So what else is meant to make BAME feel more comfortable, other than ethnic cleansing of the countryside? If the problem is meant to be the presence of White people, then the implied solution is removal of that presence. What else could it imply? It's actually just an excuse to make yet more BOGUS claims of racism.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Apprenticeships are an example of one of the ways I explained that entry to organisations could be made fairer as oppose to your perception of special treatment. If a large organisation has the disparity I mentioned, it's likely due to far lower levels than Masters. I'm sure you can think of many other ways in which recruitment can be made fairer without giving special treatment to any particular groups.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

But there hasn't been enough time to judge anything(it will take 2 or 3 extra years to reach that level), they're not achieving A level standard in the first place, and where is the evidence that employers are treating level 6 and 7 apprenticeships, adversely?:rolleyes: If anything the complaint from employers is that graduates don't have much actual real world, hands-on experience. In that sense Apprenticeships are superior in value, but there will currently only be a couple of years worth of degree level Apprentices.
Link

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Not really, numbers (as usual) mean nothing on their own.

If 1% of of the working population in an area is blind, does that mean there is a potential issue because no blind people are employed as drivers ?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/seattle-c...hysical-safety

Words fail me................

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

If giving up "guaranteed physical safety" means mixing more with Black people, isn't that implying that Black people are the actual problem?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Fox 'news' can have that effect, it's bad for your health...

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Are you saying it's not true?:rolleyes:
I did a search for "Interrupting Internalized" to find other publications reporting the story. It's quite scary that the term has been used to imply White racism for several years. Even scarier when you read the articles.

The initial report came as a result of request from the Discovery Institute.
NY Post
Washington Examiner

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Brilliant . . I wonder how many attended and are now confused about who they are, what they are, why they are and where they are :D


Imagine the reaction when (for example) a white police officer attends the scene of a Black gang fight and shouts to them "come on guys, give it a rest, I'm one of you now"

Only in America eh . . . for now :rolleyes:

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Stop being so deluded. Tip of the iceberg stuff. The mindset has been in place in the US, Canada, and the UK for years. Difficult to nail down any search criteria.
Eg UK
US Last year

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Really? That's news to me.

Maybe I've missed it all, possibly due to my propensity for ignoring stuff pushed out by deadheads in order to make my life 'have more meaning and be more rewarding' . . . like theirs seems to be :D

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

The racist anti-White rhetoric and mindset has been around for years.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Who in their right mind wants give up...
If being racist achieves your physical and emotional safety, isn't that a good idea?:confused:

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

As you are an avid advocate of the benefits of British Colonialism and our Imperial past, the irony of your statements is hilarious... :D

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

:LOL: Priceless :)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

You are being extremely silly. Trust you Hugh to take my remarks on African corruption and dictatorship as being advocacy of colonialism and Imperialism. Everybody else understood my point. You just like going on the attack.


---------- Post added at 17:21 ---------- Previous post was at 17:20 ----------

... and I expected nothing less from you.

---------- Post added at 17:23 ---------- Previous post was at 17:21 ----------

Did you deliberately misunderstand me or need I make it clearer? Is there a foreign country with a long term plan for taking over the UK by a different culture?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Not that I know of - unless you mean the USA, with it’s Coca-Colonisation of the world..

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Why does it have to a be a specific country or group. There is a thing called "Common Purpose". People and groups acting towards a common aim, without any interaction or coordination between them. Eg Are all the violent acts committed in the name of Islam or ISIS, only carried out at the specific request of a country or group? Or is there so much indoctrination churned out by certain countries and groups, that people act on that indoctrination all by themselves.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I was right - I thought you meant Australia. :D

First in the 80s and 90s, taking all the bar jobs in London, now they’re all in IT and Consulting...

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

The sooner the RussiA report is published, the better.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Thank you for this handy phrase - it will save me typing out "paranoid tin-foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists".

Much appreciated... ;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Are you really trying to say that there isn't a massive anti-white agenda and hysteria out there?:rolleyes:
Just one example.