Re: Brexit
 

Oh 100% if it’s rejected quickly that’s good and proper. If a minority attempt to delay it for the purposes of facilitating no deal and deny the will of the Commons that’s the kind of thing the Parliament Act was designed to avoid (legislatively it does not due to timeframes). The fact we’ve the ticking time bomb of Brexit would essentially force a constitutional crisis if the Government acted in a way other than extending to allow the processes to complete.

Re: Brexit
 

If you were the Queen, I'd be buying tickets! :)

Re: Brexit
 

This is from ITV’s Paul Brand.

Re: Brexit
 

Another unhinged rant, she's picking up tips from Trump, if true.

Re: Brexit
 

“2nd referendum. My deal vs Remain. I’m sick of the BS. It’s time to deliver to the people a deal that delivers x, y, z. Gives our businesses stability in a transitional period to 31 December 202X.”

Re: Brexit
 

How many times has she done this same old same old monotonous press conference.:rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

She'll have to offer a concrete story to do to the statement thing again.

Re: Brexit
 

She’s already threatened MPs with no deal and bottled it. She should threaten to revoke and see what the ERG do then. If they call a vote of no confidence she should revoke there and then ahead of the debate.

Re: Brexit
 

Cabinet has broken up after 7 hours(!).

Election? No Deal? Damien for PM?

Re: Brexit
 

Nice bit of fun in these dark days, what kind of Brexit are you - https://www.politico.eu/article/brex...eral-election/

Jacob Rees Mogg was happy to find out he was Jacob Rees Mogg - https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/...87911094816769

Re: Brexit
 

I got general election, mainly because for fun I picked a series of non-negotiable positions.

Re: Brexit
 

No contest as by landslide you are the winner.:D

Re: Brexit
 

PM statement soon apparently

Re: Brexit
 

This is from Sky’s Jon Craig.



---------- Post added at 17:34 ---------- Previous post was at 17:27 ----------

Nick Boles accuses Theresa May of putting party before country over Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...o-eu-live-news

Re: Brexit
 

The Commons has risen for the day, but it was bizarre to see.

Re: Brexit
 

be interesting to see if any resignations after the statement whatever it is

Re: Brexit
 

Cabinet locked in No 10 being given drinks without their phones whilst May prepares whatever they’ve come up with. Looks like something real this time.

Re: Brexit
 

here we go offers a meeting with Corbyn and asking for another extension

Re: Brexit
 

Prime minister calls for further Brexit delay.

Re: Brexit
 

Wow.

Longer delay so The Government and Labour can agree an approach. If not then the gov will abide by the option ultimately chosen by Parliament

Re: Brexit
 

no way there be a no deal now

Re: Brexit
 

The day that Brexit died.

Re: Brexit
 

Moving to a softer Brexit and away from a no deal.

Re: Brexit
 

More Votes....really???

Re: Brexit
 

No deal is done for unless the government is brought down or the EU say No

Re: Brexit
 

If the talks with the opposition come to nothing then it moves back to the commons for the indicative vote process again.

Re: Brexit
 

So lets be honest it's Mays way or no way?

Re: Brexit
 

May’s deal is not coming back.

The Withdrawal Agreement will be part of any deal but the questions of what our relationship with the EU will be is now going to be either decides between the government and Labour or Parliament

Re: Brexit
 

Well freedom of speech has truly gone, so obviously democracy has followed.

Re: Brexit
 

em we still got feedom of speech and democracy

Re: Brexit
 

Really? How many examples do you need of where freedom of speech is denied? Only certain permitted opinions are allowed. Only those permitted opinions are allowed on Film & TV. Hard cold facts are irrelevant, only the permitted agendas of brainwashing and grooming are allowed.

Re: Brexit
 

If it's a freedom of speech issue a 2nd referendum is the best idea. If people want Brexit that badly, then surely saying it twice isn't too much of an ask? Otherwise the majority have been effectively silenced by a one off, illegally funded, referendum based on unrealisable promises.

I think it's important Corbyn doesn't do anything quickly. Parliament is on the verge of backing Common Market 2.0 anyway. I'd wait and see who feels so strongly they resign first.

Re: Brexit
 

Hope rather than expectation, what a disappointment

Re: Brexit
 

The SOLE purpose of a 2nd referendum is to bully people and overturn the referendum. The only options being allowed are NO Brexit or NO Brexit.


Polls showed large scale support for Brexit LONG BEFORE any referendum campaign.

If you're going bring up so-called illegal funding then that would rule out any election that Labour have been involved in for who knows how many decades. There was over £650,000 in ILLEGAL donations from just one person via ILLEGAL third parties. Even Gordon Brown appeared to know about it, because he refused donations to him personally from those third parties, because knew there was actually a different person supplying the actual money. There was over £1m in donations in order to have a certain law passed. That is before you get into union funding and dodgy MP selection practices, eg people being signed up as party members when they had no idea of it.

Re: Brexit
 

Sam Coates of The Times on extension.

Re: Brexit
 

European election, no Brexit.

Mr Farage, is back in business.

Re: Brexit
 

It's an opportunity to say look, we have all the facts, we've seen the deal and we support this action. Why wouldn't someone so positive that public opinion is against the EU support such an action?

---------- Post added at 19:26 ---------- Previous post was at 19:25 ----------

His pension is a small price to pay for the economic prosperity that comes from freedom of movement of people, goods and services across the Single Market. Good luck to him I say. I'm a democrat.

Re: Brexit
 

If May's plan comes together we'll be out before the European Election.

Re: Brexit
 

The fact nobody has resigned tells me this is a trap for Corbyn. May making decisions and cabinet resignations go hand in hand.

Corbyn should just say he will back the same compromises they backed yesterday, and he will support the Government if they put them forward.

Re: Brexit
 

Ian Dunt
‏
Verified account

@IanDunt
1h
1 hour ago


More
My instinct is that this is a trap. When that statement started, I was impressed by the tone and the content. But the giveaway is at the end, when she says withdrawal bill must be passed by May 22nd.

he spot on

Re: Brexit
 

Corbyn has told the Press Association.

Re: Brexit
 

I don't see how it's a trap personally. What's in it for her now? She has detonated her own party all behind this plan and even if no agreement is found she'll go with whatever commands a majority in Parliament.

Re: Brexit
 

so the tories can blame labour for her deal not getting passed by parliament or stopping Brexit that's the trap as James Cleverly already did on twitter other day he forgetting of course lots in his party voted against too

Re: Brexit
 

She can blame the whole thing on Corbyn!:D

Re: Brexit
 

this is a totally a tory mess :D

Re: Brexit
 

Well, this is something you can blame on the Conservatives, Labour, Parliament or the electorate, you choose!

The funny thing is, no-one seems to be blaming the EU anymore, despite their red line over the backstop!

Re: Brexit
 

Lets take you flag waving party politics out of it for once OB..

---------- Post added at 20:12 ---------- Previous post was at 20:09 ----------

Its a mess that could easily have been avoided if compromise rather then bear pit ideological party politics was used a little bit more.

Re: Brexit
 

totally agree Den

Re: Brexit
 

I said it before, I would find a 2nd Referendum fascinating. The question is key though.

It has to be binary, and it should be Leave or Remain, but critically Leave should be defined as Leaving the Single Market, CU and ECJ jurisdiction.

Re: Brexit
 

What does she care though? This is her final act in politics. She could keep her party largely together but she has chosen this path instead.

---------- Post added at 20:50 ---------- Previous post was at 20:48 ----------

I have never really been fully on board with a 2nd referendum but even less so in the last few weeks. I think when you consider the mood of the country, the chaos in Parliament and the sheer sanity of us all then another referendum will do us no good at all. Anything that avoids tearing the country further apart is a good thing at the moment.

The only option worse than a referendum is no deal IMO. I really hope a consensus is found.

Re: Brexit
 

Mon dieu!!! We agree on something ;)

Had the question in the original referendum been posed as above then those of us who wish to remain would have a lot less reason to protest

Re: Brexit
 

May’s Deal is/was compromise.

Re: Brexit
 

No one could accuse anyone else of not knowing what they were voting for if we did do it again that's for sure, in fact I doubt there could be any complaints at all when leave won again.

Anyone seen our old pal with the clock, wondered what time it was saying now that's all

Re: Brexit
 

My post is really about the last three years in general.

Re: Brexit
 

Enough about this damn clock - people really need to stop winding each other up (No pun intended) and enough of this "I told you so" attitude.

Parliamentary procedures and processes have been totally rewritten.

If the provocation does not stop, then I am closing this thread.

Re: Brexit
 

Rather interesting speech in the Bundestag last week.

Re: Brexit
 

Ditto. The vote was so close it needed a compromise. Instead, she picked the boots of the ERG and got kicked.

---------- Post added at 21:31 ---------- Previous post was at 21:29 ----------

Is that the same speech from the anti-Jewish and anti-Muslim party that Rees-Mogg was called out for re-posting? :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

Already been posted several days ago. Interesting but not really relevant to the process.

Re: Brexit
 

From the guardian

The irony!

Re: Brexit
 

he really taking the p saying that

Re: Brexit
 

It's comedy gold, Dave! We used to entertain the world with "Only Fools and Horses". Now we entertain the world with only our fools! ;)

---------- Post added at 22:17 ---------- Previous post was at 22:00 ----------

Thoughtful and incisive article from Sky News. Excerpt here.
https://news.sky.com/story/make-no-m...rexit-11682494

Re: Brexit
 

If she’s going anyway why not make the price of backing the deal a general election? She gets her deal, Corbyn takes them to the cleaners and gets to lead the country into his socialist utopia.

Re: Brexit
 

Spasibo, Tovarishch...

Re: Brexit
 

So that's it then, game over and we stay in the EU. Parliament & the EU have re-written the rules of engagement . .

My gas bill is due at the end of the month, I'm delaying it . . . along with the electric bill . . well they're both foreign owned so I can do that now . . goose/gander etc :D

I might even tell her Her Majesty's Government that there may be a 'transitional period' during which my tax and national insurance payments need letters of clarification - in triplicate - signed by the President of our glorious masters the EU

screw em . . .

*pats himself on the head for not using any of the many many swear words screaming to be let loose*

Re: Brexit
 

I will if you and your buddies do, Den. :D

---------- Post added at 23:34 ---------- Previous post was at 23:29 ----------

Trouble is, Den, that compromise would have meant no end to freedom of movement, acceptance of the customs union which we thought we were getting out of and basically taking away the advantages of leaving to such an extent that we would be better off staying in.

So let's not flag wave for Labour and the other opposition parties without actually appreciating that Labour is reneging on its manifesto commitment and betraying the will of the electorate in terms of their majority vote in the referendum.:mad:

Re: Brexit
 

You may have thought you were voting to quit the Customs Union, but many leavers did not as it was not stated one way or the other. But a smaller country cannot negotiate better trade deals than a significantly larger bloc; thus you're correct in appreciating we'd be better off remaining in the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

l ain't buddies with any of them OB as my eyes can see clearly and one thing is pretty clear to me and that is the shockingly poor leadership that has come from both leaders when our country's need was at its greatest.

---------- Post added at 06:12 ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 ----------

Unless one compromises one just goes round on a never ending vicious circle without any clear ending in sight and the vast majority of the populace now are just fed up with it all now and just want a end to this shambolic shitshow which has encompassed the last three years.

Re: Brexit
 

Exactly, Den. Whatever my views on Brexit and Jezza, I think May is now doing the right thing and I applaud her courage

Re: Brexit
 

it would be deliciously ironic if Corbyn insisted on aligned rights for women in NI as part of his cooperation.

Re: Brexit
 

Good luck with that.

Parties that lose are not bound by their manifesto. Wouldn't make sense either since often the parties have to change having lost.

---------- Post added at 08:25 ---------- Previous post was at 08:24 ----------

:D

It's what annoys me most about the DUP. For all their talk of the union they seem quite happy not to be aligned with the UK when it comes to these kinds of laws.

Re: Brexit
 

Lol, that would be perfect! The DUP are the one party that until now seemed to have their cake and eat it.

---------- Post added at 08:44 ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 ----------

I think Brexit will happen but you're right to prepare yourself in case it doesn't. I think the current situation is regrettably due to the actions of the UK. We should have come up with an agreed plan before invoking Article 50.

Re: Brexit
 

I think Brexit is more likely to happen now, and soon. A 2nd referendum is only likely if no other option is found.

Re: Brexit
 

Depends on your definition of Brexit. We can still have the blue passports whatever, so that's the main thing ;)
I knew Jezza would come to the rescue, he's a true Gent who'd answer any maiden in distress :D

Tbf good for TM too if she has genuinely put the country before her extremist nutty party. The right will rue the day they forced her to go and gave her nothing to lose.

Anyway back to the beach, this has been pleasant viewing from a few thousand miles away... The EU and it denizens are lovely, don't know what we ever complained about :) Maybe we can all live together in peace and harmony ?

Re: Brexit
 

While it might be true that some would not have been aware of what a customs union was, the message that we would be able to forge our own trade deals was made abundantly clear. That requires us leaving the customs union.

Your analysis of negotiations between bigger blocs and smaller countries is too simplistic. You only have to look how Singapore operates, appreciate that we could operate as a lower tariff country, bear in mind that we are the 5th largest economy of the world, and little facts such as these, to realise that there is no reason why we could not improve our fortunes outside of the EU.

You take no notice of the negatives of staying in the EU against the new opportunities that would exist for us, and this is the big flaw in your arguments and these economic forecasts, which give too much emphasis to the possible downsides and nowhere near enough to the upsides.

Re: Brexit
 

BREAKING: And so it begins: Nigel Adams MP has Resigned from Theresa May Cabinet.

Re: Brexit
 

How many is that now...

Re: Brexit
 

Who? Didn't he used to be in Crossroads?

Re: Brexit
 

It's not poor leadership, Den, it is the consequence of having no parliamentary majority and a sharp difference of opinion between leavers and remainers, a combination of which splits both major parties and indeed the whole country. I blame the remainers in both parties for this chaos because they are failing to implement the will of the electorate.

As for compromise, no. You cannot compromise on this because having voted to leave, these people are trying to have us with one foot in and one foot out of the EU. That would put us in a worse place than we are now, unable to take advantage of the opportunities that would otherwise present themselves and leaving us as rule takers.

We have to be either in or out, and the electorate voted out. It is as simple and straight forward as that and our elected politicians need to do their job.

Re: Brexit
 

I’m told there is 5 current Ministerial positions that remain vacant.

---------- Post added at 10:07 ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 ----------

A Cabinet Resignation watch by the media has now begun.

We’re now in Imminent General Election territory.

Re: Brexit
 

General Election territory could well change the political landscape existentially given the political fault lines are as deep as they have ever been in this country.

Re: Brexit
 

I think we're heading for an election anyway. It's just if it's before/after the deal is passed.

Re: Brexit
 

The whole lot of them should be taken out to somewhere like Siberia and forced to remain there until they've agreed something.

I wonder if some are really worried about a general election and their constituency looking at how their representative has behaved over this. Or are people just still going to vote for "their party" regardless and we still end up where we are. I also wonder if some are voting just against whatever "the others" have suggested because that's what you do. (Not all are like that I know.)

Re: Brexit
 

‘Brexit’ isn’t going to happen. As we will still be ceding power to the EU.

There will be a different arrangement with the EU, but it isn’t Brexit.

Re: Brexit
 

Nah - I just renewed mine...

Re: Brexit
 

Oh no, not Nigel, she'll be missed

That'll be interesting, hasn't Mrs May given guarantees to last this long that she won't fight the next election, interesting times

---------- Post added at 11:32 ---------- Previous post was at 11:29 ----------

What you mean losers are no longer bound by promises rejected by the public as not being good enough for them, that makes no sense at all, madness

Re: Brexit
 

False comparison - Singapore is a one party (in all but name) authoritarian state, with censored media, banned car ownership (unless you can afford an expensive permit), is now the most expensive country in the world to live in (for the 5th year in a row), and to buy a property through Singapore’s public Housing and Development board, you must be at least 21 and purchasing with someone in your “family nucleus” – such as a sibling or spouse – or at least 35 if you are single.

The government maintains strict restrictions on the right to freedom of peaceful assembly through the Public Order Act, which requires a police permit for any “cause-related” assembly if it is held in a public place, or if members of the general public are invited. Permits are routinely denied for events addressing political topics. The Singapore government now considers the mere presence of a foreigner during an assembly to be unlawful participation that can result in criminal penalties for both the foreigner and the event organiser.

Singapore uses the ISA and Criminal Law (Temporary Provisions) Act (CLTPA) to arrest and administratively detain persons for virtually unlimited periods without charge or judicial review.

No, thanks...

Re: Brexit
 

Who says we aren’t heading for a one party state ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Well, now the Tories have killed themselves off, in a 2 party state this then leaves the one :) Time for the King Across the Water to return and claim the vacant political centre ground ..

Re: Brexit
 

l doubt it as given what has transpired these past three years we will have the Conservative party , Labour , Lib Dems , Change UK – The Independent Group , UKIP , The Green party , Plaid Cymru , Scottish National Party , DUP , Sinn Féin , And political candidates who will stand as independents in their constituency's and any other new parties that develop from Brexit who want to set themselves up fighting for seats at the forthcoming general election..

Re: Brexit
 

Sorry Old Boy. One-party states like North Korea and Singapore may be your cup of tea but they're not mine.

Re: Brexit
 

I was only having fun with the prospect of a Corbyn SSR. You’re right, the system will only fracture unless Labour move to the middle and hoover everyone up.

Re: Brexit
 

BREAKING: BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg:

Re: Brexit
 

David Miliband?

Re: Brexit
 

I think he means James Corden.

Re: Brexit
 

Crikey, I hope not.

Re: Brexit
 

It's not a false comparison. You are talking about the politics. I was talking about trade.

---------- Post added at 13:17 ---------- Previous post was at 13:16 ----------

Not mine, either. I have never advocated that.

Re: Brexit
 

All three readings of the backbench Bill pencilled in today. Mighty fast of them.

Re: Brexit
 

This from the New Statesman’s Patrick Maguire.

Re: Brexit
 

Yes. Damien is spot on .. :)

---------- Post added at 14:22 ---------- Previous post was at 14:14 ----------

Seems May is now accepting that EU elections are on the cards:

May refuses to rule out UK holding European elections if EU insists on long article 50 extension

I can see a solution where JC agrees to pitch May's WA deal with some CU tweaks to the PD as long as this comes with a confirmatory public vote. This May's saves face (my deal finally moves forward), JC get to "Leave" and everyone else gets a say now we know what is on the table.

Drinks all round and a slap up meal at Mrs Miggins tea shop!

Re: Brexit
 

I don't think EU elections are too bad a thing, nobody will be forced to use their vote if they Don't want to. If they hold them at the same time as the forthcoming council elections, it won't be too much money that is wasted.

David Van Day is now a Tory politician and a leaver too. Perhaps he can replace May :D