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-   -   President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33705924)

ianch99 02-05-2018 17:17
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945492)
The Doctor signed the letter and only now says it’s not his words. Another pathetic smear attempt. Plus....Reported on Fake News CNN. :zzz:

Meanwhile Trump achieving Peace in the Korean Peninsula. Fantastic achievement, but the liberal press want to discuss other things. Evil set of one sided pricks. They are really upset Crooked Hillary lost still.
And you don't have a problem with the letter certifying the medical condition of the President being written by the person being assessed? :(

Stephen 02-05-2018 18:12
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Ahh the old fake news statement that always appears when Trump or his followers don't like the facts.

The wording in the letter certainly sounds like it was not written by a medical expert.

Mick 02-05-2018 20:57
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35945573)
Ahh the old fake news statement that always appears when Trump or his followers don't like the facts.

The wording in the letter certainly sounds like it was not written by a medical expert.
His doctor signed it, so regardless who wrote it, his doctor signing it means he was giving his consent to what was written, I would say that it was the doctor at fault here for approving it in the first place and not placing his objections, that's if the story is even remotely true. I don't give a crap either way.

1andrew1 03-05-2018 07:54
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
I doubt this latest revelation announced in the safe confines of Fox News will impact Trump much. And I'm sure he will be able to hide behind legal semantics. But only last month, Trump told reporters on Air Force One that he was not aware of the payment made to Ms Clifford
Quote:
Rudy Giuliani: Trump paid back hush money given to porn star Stormy Daniels
Donald Trump reimbursed his personal lawyer for a $130,000 payment used to keep porn star Stormy Daniels quiet before the 2016 election, the President’s new attorney Rudy Giuliani has said.
Mr Trump had previously maintained that he was not aware of the hush money Daniels had received from lawyer Michael Cohen to buy her silence over their alleged affair...
Former New York mayor Giuliani told Fox News' Hannity programme that Mr Trump's payment to Mr Cohen "is going to turn out to be perfectly legal" because "that money was not campaign money".
https://news.sky.com/story/rudy-giul...niels-11356513

Quote:
In response to Mr Giuliani’s claim, Ms Clifford’s lawyer Michael Avenatti said he was “stunned”, according to CNN.“Every American, regardless of their politics, should be outraged by what we have now learned. Mr Trump stood on AF1 and blatantly lied,” he tweeted. “We will not rest until justice is served.”
https://www.ft.com/content/41ec33fa-...9-37318e776bab
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8333831.html

Hugh 03-05-2018 08:18
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35945651)
I doubt this latest revelation announced in the safe confines of Fox News will impact Trump much. And I'm sure he will be able to hide behind legal semantics. But only last month, Trump told reporters on Air Force One that he was not aware of the payment made to Ms Clifford

https://news.sky.com/story/rudy-giul...niels-11356513


https://www.ft.com/content/41ec33fa-...9-37318e776bab
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8333831.html
Even Fox News isn’t happy with Trump’s new lawyer.

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/38...stormy-daniels
Quote:
Fox News host Laura Ingraham said President Trump’s new lawyer Rudy Giuliani contradicted Trump’s claims that he didn’t know about his personal attorney Michael Cohen's payment to adult film star Stormy Daniels, calling the conflicting statements “a problem.”
And Trump’s lawyer also, in the same interview, confirmed why Trump fired Comey.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administ...trump-he-wasnt
Quote:
Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani (R) said Wednesday that President Trump fired former FBI Director James Comey because Comey wouldn’t tell Trump that he wasn’t a target of the FBI investigation into Russia's election interference.

“He fired Comey because Comey would not, among other things, say that he wasn’t a target of the investigation,” Giuliani, who recently joined Trump’s legal team, told Fox News’s Sean Hannity.

Mick 03-05-2018 09:57
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Brilliant move by Giuliani, there is now no Campaign Financial law crime that the Never-Trumpers can scream about.

As for firing Comey, no it is not Obstruction of Justice. Article 2 of the Constitution allows the President of the United States to fire any Executive Branch Employee for any reason, at any time. Comey needed to be fired, he did a sloppy job with the Crooked Hillary Email Investigation, potentially allowed subordinates to give Hillary a pass. Not acceptable, plus he would not tell people, Trump was not under investigation, with also the recommendation from Rod Rosenstein, Trump can legally fire the FBI Director as he chooses.

Giuliani spoke to the President after revealing the reimbursement, Trump was very happy with him, had spoke before hand.

Mr K 03-05-2018 10:07
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945663)
Brilliant move by Giuliani, there is now no Campaign Financial law crime that the Never-Trumpers can scream about.

As for firing Comey, no it is not Obstruction of Justice. Article 2 of the Constitution allows the President of the United States to fire any Executive Branch Employee for any reason, at any time. Comey needed to be fired, he did a sloppy job with the Crooked Hillary Email Investigation, potentially allowed subordinates to give Hillary a pass. Not acceptable, plus he would not tell people, Trump was not under investigation, with also the recommendation from Rod Rosenstein, Trump can legally fire the FBI Director as he chooses.

Giuliani spoke to the President after revealing the reimbursement, Trump was very happy with him, had spoke before hand.
Must be getting a bit tiring covering for Trump all the time Mick ! ;)

Damien 03-05-2018 10:14
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
It's sort of irrelevant what Giuliani says though. Either there is a record of this payment or there isn't.

Mick 03-05-2018 10:15
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35945666)
Must be getting a bit tiring covering for Trump all the time Mick ! ;)
Not covering for anyone just being realistic and factual, without suffering from Trump derangement syndrome.

In other news, U.S prisoners are to be released from North Korea, at the request of President Trump, huge huge potential story of the decade, Obama’s tried and failed (like he failed at other things) not one sniff in the one sided liberal press. They are Pathetic.

Mr K 03-05-2018 11:33
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945672)
Not covering for anyone just being realistic and factual, without suffering from Trump derangement syndrome.

In other news, U.S prisoners are to be released from North Korea, at the request of President Trump, huge huge potential story of the decade, Obama’s tried and failed (like he failed at other things) not one sniff in the one sided liberal press. They are Pathetic.
Yes being liberal is terrible isn't it ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libera..._United_States
Quote:
Liberalism in the United States is a broad political philosophy centered on the unalienable rights of the individual. The fundamental liberal ideals of freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion for all belief systems, and the separation of church and state, right to due process, and equality under the law are widely accepted as a common foundation across the spectrum of liberal thought.
Horrifying stuff.

Mick 03-05-2018 11:40
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Still no comment on the prisoners release thanks to Trump I see.. :rolleyes:

When it comes to the news, yes it is terrible.

You're pissed off all the time with Corbyn being smeared in the UK media, this one lopsidedness hysteria in the media, with Trump is NO different!!!

Hugh 03-05-2018 13:11
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945684)
Still no comment on the prisoners release thanks to Trump I see.. :rolleyes:

When it comes to the news, yes it is terrible.

You're pissed off all the time with Corbyn being smeared in the UK media, this one lopsidedness hysteria in the media, with Trump is NO different!!!
Do you mean besides CNN, the Washington Post, the Independent, USA Today, The Hill, NBC, the Telegraph, the BBC, the New York Post, the Washington Post, the Financial Times, Newsweek, Sky, Reuters, and NPR?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...033_story.html

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/03/polit...ers/index.html

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a8334111.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ing/575125002/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-43983719

http://thehill.com/policy/internatio...isoner-release

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/t...-camps-n870966

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...cans-detained/

https://nypost.com/2018/05/02/north-...ng-with-trump/

https://www.ft.com/content/871bce30-...e-22951a2d8493

http://www.newsweek.com/north-korea-...g-trump-908695

https://news.sky.com/story/north-kor...ports-11356535

http://www.reuters.tv/v/tvr/2018/05/...ave-been-moved

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...in-north-korea

re one-sided smearing of Trump, what about what I posted earlier today - it was Fox News who said Guiliani had contradicted Trump, and that was a problem - were Fox News smearing Trump?
Quote:
“You have the president on tape on Air Force One saying he did not know about the payment, and you’ll have to ask Michael Cohen about that,” Ingraham said. “Rudy just goes on with Hannity and says ‘Oh no, he reimbursed them.'”

"I love Rudy, but they better have an explanation for that,” she added. “That's a problem."
http://thehill.com/homenews/media/38...stormy-daniels

Mick 03-05-2018 13:33
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
I could have saved you from all that googling Hugh by saying, no comments from Mr K on the prisoners release. You just wasted time with all that searching... My point still stands. The media is one sided and pathetic. :rolleyes:

Hugh 03-05-2018 16:48
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945703)
I could have saved you from all that googling Hugh by saying, no comments from Mr K on the prisoners release. You just wasted time with all that searching... My point still stands. The media is one sided and pathetic. :rolleyes:
It took me a few minutes - very little effort.

You said
Quote:
not one sniff in the one sided liberal press. They are Pathetic.
I just provided evidence that your statement was "alternative facts".

Mick 03-05-2018 17:09
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Nope, you provided no such thing. You’re wrong yet again. My point still remains.

Mick 03-05-2018 19:17
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
BREAKING: Federal Investigators wiretapped Trump lawyer, Michael Cohen, one call to White House said to have been intercepted.

This could put whomever authorised that wiretap in very serious legal peril, as intercepting calls to the White House breaches National Security and Executive Privilege laws.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/michae...18-5?r=US&IR=T

Damien 03-05-2018 19:40
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
I assume they got a warrant to do so with the Judge who granted it being well aware of the implications.

1andrew1 03-05-2018 20:08
Trump fesses up to payment to Ms Clifford
 
Quote:
Trump says he reimbursed lawyer for porn star ‘hush money’
The president originally told reporters in April that he had been unaware of the payment by attorney Michael Cohen to Stephanie Clifford, whose stage name is Stormy Daniels, shortly before the 2016 election.
However, Mr Trump wrote on Twitter on Thursday morning that Mr Cohen had entered into a non-disclosure agreement with Ms Clifford to “stop the false and extortionist accusations made by her about an affair”. Such agreements, the president added, are “very common among celebrities and people of wealth”.
https://www.ft.com/content/41ec33fa-...9-37318e776bab

Stephen 03-05-2018 20:31
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945725)
Nope, you provided no such thing. You’re wrong yet again. My point still remains.
He did provide it there for your point does not stand.

Hugh 03-05-2018 20:47
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945725)
Nope, you provided no such thing. You’re wrong yet again. My point still remains.
Your point that the liberal press weren’t covering Trump’s initiative on getting Korean prisoners released and I showed that they were?

OK, then...

---------- Post added at 20:47 ---------- Previous post was at 20:38 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35945754)
I assume they got a warrant to do so with the Judge who granted it being well aware of the implications.
This thread, by a US lawyer and former Federal prosecutor, explains it - Prosecutors would have detailed how they were handling calls that could be a privileged in their application for the wiretap, and the judge would have reviewed and approved it.

It’s worth reading.

Quote:
Renato Mariotti
@renato_mariotti

Replying to @renato_mariotti
1/ Today @NBCNews reported that federal law enforcement wiretapped Michael Cohen’s phones in the weeks leading up to the search of his office, home, and hotel room.

Feds tapped Trump lawyer Michael Cohen's phones
nbcnews.com

2/ As a starting point, a wiretap means federal law enforcement was investigating *ongoing* criminal activity. In order to obtain a wiretap, investigators had to convince a judge that Cohen would use the phone to communicate regarding criminal activity during the 30-day period.

3/ That is different from a search warrant, which often seeks evidence of *past* crimes. To get the search warrant, the prosecutors had to convince the judge that evidence would be found in a location. That evidence (documents, etc.) could be about crimes from months ago.

4/ In contrast, the wiretap seeks the ability to intercept calls in the future. So the prosecutors had to convince the judge that there was good reason to believe that Cohen would have conversations that would be evidence of a crime within the next 30 days.

5/ Typically the way prosecutors do this is by recording a call between the person using the phone and a cooperator during which criminal activity is discussed. There are other ways to prove a phone is being used to discuss crime, but the evidence on that point must be solid.

6/ That isn’t enough, though, because wiretaps require prosecutors to convince the judge that the wiretap is *necessary.* If prosecutors can only prove that Cohen is talking with their cooperator, they don’t need a wiretap because they can just record calls with the cooperator.

7/ So prosecutors also have to show the judge that Cohen used the phone to communicate with others who are part of the criminal activity. This is typically done by looking at phone records and providing evidence that others in contact with the phone are committing crime.

8/ Wiretaps are difficult to get. A normal wiretap has to be approved by a supervisor at the U.S. Attorney’s Office, then by special attorneys at the Justice Department, then by a Deputy Assistant Attorney General, and then by a judge. This one certainly got additional scrutiny.

9/ Once a judge signs a warrant, calls are screened by monitors at the FBI. Each monitor listens and determines early in the call if it is (1) not related to criminal activity or (2) privileged. If they determine the call is unrelated to crime or privileged, they stop listening.

10/ (Sometimes they “spot check” calls that are very long to see if the previously unrelated to crime has taken a turn and is now about criminal activity.)

11/ It is highly unusual to wiretap an attorney’s phone because so many of the conversations could be privileged. A wiretap like this would receive extra scrutiny from the Justice Department and the judge even if Cohen didn’t represent the president.

12/ When a phone is wiretapped, typically the investigation is “covert.” In other words, the person doesn’t know they’re being investigated. If the investigation isn’t covert, the person is unlikely to use the phone to discuss crime.

13/ For that reason, prosecutors who have a wiretap typically keep the investigation under wraps even if the person is in the process of committing a crime, unless serious crimes are being committed that could harm others, evidence is being destroyed, or they have what they need.

14/ For that reason, the search warrants executed at Cohen’s home, office, and hotel room are now much more interesting. Executing a search warrant means that the investigation is no longer hidden, and in the most “in your face” way possible.

15/ Prosecutors had to know that if they executed the search warrants, Cohen would be much less likely to talk on the phone about crime going forward. So why ruin their wiretap? Either they already had enough evidence to make their case, or they thought he would destroy evidence.

16/ Either reason is very bad news for Cohen. So who told NBC News about the existence of the wiretap? My guess is either Cohen’s camp or Trump’s camp. The existence of the wiretap may have been revealed to them by prosecutors, and they could have reason to leak. /end

ADDENDUM: Prosecutors would have detailed how they were handling calls that could be a privileged in their application for the wiretap, and the judge would have reviewed and approved it.

Mick 03-05-2018 20:54
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35945776)
He did provide it there for your point does not stand.
He has provided no such thing because I was on about 1 person FFS.

Hugh 03-05-2018 20:57
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945672)
Not covering for anyone just being realistic and factual, without suffering from Trump derangement syndrome.

In other news, U.S prisoners are to be released from North Korea, at the request of President Trump, huge huge potential story of the decade, Obama’s tried and failed (like he failed at other things) not one sniff in the one sided liberal press. They are Pathetic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945783)
He has provided no such thing because I was on about 1 person FFS.
As I previously stated, reply was to this post...

Stephen 03-05-2018 20:58
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
You were stating that media/press made no mention of the freeing of the prisoners which they did.

Mick 03-05-2018 21:01
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35945785)
As I previously stated, reply was to this post...
You are still incorrect.

---------- Post added at 21:01 ---------- Previous post was at 20:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35945786)
You were stating that media/press made no mention of the freeing of the prisoners which they did.
My point still stands. :rolleyes:

1andrew1 03-05-2018 21:05
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35945779)
This thread, by a US lawyer and former Federal prosecutor, explains it - Prosecutors would have detailed how they were handling calls that could be a privileged in their application for the wiretap, and the judge would have reviewed and approved it.

It’s worth reading.
You're wrong again Hugh. It's from a liberal fake news outlet that fails to report Trump's many good deeds such as this one. The NBC article is not worth the paper it's not printed on and you know it. ;)

Mick 03-05-2018 21:11
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Let me guess the federal judge was based in New York or California. Lib and Democrat land.... :rolleyes:

Hugh 03-05-2018 21:36
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945672)
Not covering for anyone just being realistic and factual, without suffering from Trump derangement syndrome.

In other news, U.S prisoners are to be released from North Korea, at the request of President Trump, huge huge potential story of the decade, Obama’s tried and failed (like he failed at other things) not one sniff in the one sided liberal press. They are Pathetic.
List of US Citizens held prisoner in North Korea - looks as if 11 out of 13 imprisoned when Obama was in office were released (info from Wiki).

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1525379681

Hugh 03-05-2018 21:43
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945787)
You are still incorrect.

---------- Post added at 21:01 ---------- Previous post was at 20:58 ----------



My point still stands. :rolleyes:
Ok - I must have imagined all those links...

Mick 03-05-2018 21:52
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35945794)
List of US Citizens held prisoner in North Korea - looks as if 11 out of 13 imprisoned when Obama was in office were released (info from Wiki).

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1525379681
Were those releases directly attributable to Obama, probably not.

My point remains.

Bottom line is. Obama had a dire foreign policy, certainly didn’t do anything to deserve his Nobel Peace Prize.

1andrew1 03-05-2018 21:52
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Trump hires lawyer who represented Clinton in impeachment
President Donald Trump has hired a veteran lawyer who represented Bill Clinton during his impeachment process as the White House shifted to a more aggressive approach to the Russia investigation that has reached a critical stage.
The White House announced the hiring of lawyer Emmet Flood after disclosing the retirement of Ty Cobb, who for months has been the administration’s point person dealing with special counsel Robert Mueller.
http://www.itv.com/news/2018-05-03/t...n-impeachment/

Mick 03-05-2018 22:00
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35945795)
Ok - I must have imagined all those links...
You google as many links as you like, my point about the media being liberal and one sided remains.

At some point it might sink in, I stand by everything I post. If you don’t like it, tough.

---------- Post added at 22:00 ---------- Previous post was at 21:57 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35945798)
Old news. This info came out weeks ago about Flood.

RizzyKing 03-05-2018 22:02
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
I agree there is a bias against Trump in the U.S mainstream media but they clearly did report on NK detainee's being released. While there is a lot of smoke involved with both Trump and the 2nd amendment at the minute it's not good enough to label everything as bias and discount the content.

1andrew1 03-05-2018 22:04
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945801)
You google as many links as you like, my point about the media being liberal and one sided remains.
It's everyone's choice to make up their minds on press bias.
But to prevent you and Hugh going round in circles, do you still believe that the press did not report the Korean prisoners being released?

Damien 03-05-2018 22:16
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945797)
Were those releases directly attributable to Obama, probably not.
IIRC It's usually the US State Department working with China to get these done. I don't know what Trump did differently to President Obama but maybe the latter just didn't talk about it so much?

Mick 03-05-2018 22:26
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
BREAKING: NBC issued a correction to its wiretap story on MSNBC.

Feds are "monitoring" Michael Cohen’s calls, they are NOT listening to or recording them, there is NO "wiretapping."

In otherwords what they reported initially, was Fake News.

1andrew1 03-05-2018 22:57
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945807)
BREAKING: NBC issued a correction to its wiretap story on MSNBC.

Feds are "monitoring" Michael Cohen’s calls, they are NOT listening to or recording them, there is NO "wiretapping."

In otherwords what they reported initially, was Fake News.
I think there's a few types of incorrect news:

Fake news - where the outlet makes up a story or reports an incorrect story it's been fed. Famous examples being The Sunday Times's Hitler Diaries and The Sun's Hillsborough story.

Headline doesn't equal story. Headline writers don't write the news stories so often don't read them in full. Quite a few examples abound in the Daily Mail and Express. Here's one.
Headline: Air pollution now leading cause of lung cancer
Article: Dr Sharp said it’s important to keep the risk of air pollution “in perspective”. She said “Although air pollution increases the risks of developing lung cancer by a small amount, other things have a much bigger effect on our risk, particularly smoking.”
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...of-lung-cancer

Satire. Made famous by The Onion and Southend News Network. Most famously, news agency the Associated Press asked the latter for more details on its story about a mother who was arrested for accidentally naming her baby ‘Heroin’ instead of ‘Hermione’ http://www.southendnewsnetwork.net/n...n-baby-heroin/

Mistakes. Sometimes due to time pressures or journalistic errors, mistakes do occur. I would suggest this is what happened with NBC.

Hugh 04-05-2018 07:54
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945801)
You google as many links as you like, my point about the media being liberal and one sided remains.

At some point it might sink in, I stand by everything I post. If you don’t like it, tough.

---------- Post added at 22:00 ---------- Previous post was at 21:57 ----------



Old news. This info came out weeks ago about Flood.
Good for you - if I think people (not just you) are posting factual inaccuracies, I will post evidence-based posts to highlight this - if they don’t like it, as you say, tough...

Mick 04-05-2018 10:05
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35945822)
Good for you - if I think people (not just you) are posting factual inaccuracies, I will post evidence-based posts to highlight this - if they don’t like it, as you say, tough...
Well that’s all bollocks. I did not post any inaccuracies and you have not corrected anything I posted.

The point I made, still stands, the media in their rush to post anything they can get that’s negative against Trump, they will. They are one sided and pathetic. The NK prisoners release was back seat news, the point I made, the one sided liberal press, more intrested in Stormy Daniels... and that got more coverage because of their Anti-Trump agenda.

Hugh 04-05-2018 10:34
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
More one-sided liberal press bias from Fox News, with their anti-trump agenda...

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/38...ats-your-swamp

Quote:
Fox's Cavuto on pattern of false statements: 'Mr. President, that’s your swamp'

"Let me be clear, Mr. President. How can you drain the swamp if you’re the one that keeps muddying the waters? You didn’t know about the $130,000 payment to a porn star until you did,” Cavuto said.

“You said you knew nothing about your lawyer Michael Cohen handling this, until acknowledging today you were the guy behind the retainer payment that took care of this,” he continued. “You insist that money from the campaign or campaign contributions played no role in this transaction. Of that you’re sure. The thing is, not 24 hours ago, sir, you couldn’t recall any of this. And you seemed very sure.”

I’m not saying you’re a liar,” Cavuto added. “You’re a president, you’re busy. I’m having a devil of a time figuring out which news is fake. Let’s just say that your own words on lots of stuff gave me lots of pause."

Cavuto then ran through a long list of claims that Trump has made that have later been proven to be false or were inaccurate or unsubstantiated in the first place.

Among the items were Trump’s claims that Russians didn’t interfere in the 2016 election, that the new GOP tax law would cost him a “fortune” and that he had signed more bills at that point of his presidency than any of his predecessors.

“None of this makes what you say fake. Just calling out the press for being so, a bit of a stretch,” Cavuto said.

“But more oftentimes they’re using your own words to bash you. Your base probably might not care. But you should,” he continued. “I guess you’re too busy draining the swamp to ever stop and smell the stink you’re creating. That’s your doing. That’s your stink, Mr. President, that’s your swamp.”
http://thehill.com/homenews/media/38...rthy-of-belief
Quote:
Fox’s Napolitano says Giuliani claim ‘unworthy of belief’

Fox senior judicial analyst Andrew Napolitano said Thursday that it is “unworthy of belief” that President Trump reimbursed his personal attorney Michael Cohen and didn't know the money was being used to silence adult-film star Stormy Daniels about an alleged 2006 affair with Trump.

“If Rudy [Giuliani] wants the public to believe that Donald Trump reimbursed Michael Cohen $130,000 and didn’t know what it was for, didn’t know that it was going to silence Stormy Daniels, that is unworthy of belief,” said Napolitano, a former New Jersey Superior Court judge.

He described Trump as a “man who knows where every one of his nickels has gone.”

Mick 04-05-2018 10:51
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Don’t watch Fox News. But at least this shows how objective they are. So again, Hugh, you have proved nothing much..

Hugh 04-05-2018 14:42
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
1 Attachment(s)
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...2&d=1525441049

Two of the three prisoners were held after Trump took up office - this statement appears to be an "alternative fact".

Mick 04-05-2018 16:46
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35945880)
https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...2&d=1525441049

Two of the three prisoners were held after Trump took up office - this statement appears to be an "alternative fact".
Irrelevant. Does not alter the fact that Obama's foreign policies were dire.

And I repeat, Obama did not deserve his Nobel Peace Prize, given to him before he had the potential do anything to promote peace which he did not. He was a foreign policy failure, largely in part due to who he appointed as Secretary of State in his first term.. :rolleyes:

Maggy 04-05-2018 16:51
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Osama Bin Laden..I guess that was a failure as well.

Hugh 04-05-2018 16:52
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Irrelevant that he can't tell the truth - OK, then...

Damien 04-05-2018 17:12
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
I don't think Obama deserved the Nobel Peace Prize either and his foreign policy was mixed to say the least.

But it also has to be placed in perspective. Trump and his supporters almost seem to define themselves by Obama. The Iran deal got Russia and China on board and stopped their nuclear weapons development. Now Trump wants to rip it up but there doesn't appear to be an alternative plan. Just like the attempt to scrap Obamacare there was little thought to replacing it with something better, all the alternatives left fewer Americans with health insurance, so long as Obamacare was gone.

A lasting peace deal with the Koreas would a genuine achievement for Trump. Like with Iran this would be a country that was developing nuclear weapons, where war was at least a worry, which we're now on peaceful terms with. However as with Iran there would have to be concessions to N.Korea and it's these likely concessions that are Trump's problem with the Iran deal. So is he not going to give anything to N.Korea? If he does then what's the difference between that and Iran? Other than the latter is Obama.

Mick 04-05-2018 18:14
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35945890)
Osama Bin Laden..I guess that was a failure as well.
If you believe in State Sponsored Assassinations, that's fine.

I do believe in the Judicial system though.

BREAKING: A Federal Judge In Virginia accuses Special Counsel, Robert Mueller III of lying, to get to Trump.

Quote:
A federal judge on Friday harshly rebuked Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team during a hearing for ex-Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort – suggesting they lied about the scope of the investigation, are seeking “unfettered power” and are more interested in bringing down the president.

"You don't really care about Mr. Manafort,” U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis III told Mueller’s team. “You really care about what information Mr. Manafort can give you to lead you to Mr. Trump and an impeachment, or whatever."

Further, Ellis demanded to see the unredacted “scope memo,” a document outlining the scope of the special counsel’s Russia probe that congressional Republicans have also sought.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...-cmon-man.html

http://uk.businessinsider.com/judge-...-russia-2018-5

Damien 04-05-2018 18:20
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945899)
If you believe in State Sponsored Assassinations, that's fine.

I do believe in the Judicial system though.
Pretty impressive how even taking out Osama is bad now. Clearly they should have just arrested him in the middle of Pakistan. I take it you also condemn Trump for the bombing of terrorists in Syria rather than seeking their extradition?

Mick 04-05-2018 19:05
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35945901)
Pretty impressive how even taking out Osama is bad now. Clearly they should have just arrested him in the middle of Pakistan. I take it you also condemn Trump for the bombing of terrorists in Syria rather than seeking their extradition?
Depends if those terrorists were armed... if not I believe in capture and holding people to justice 'legally'...

Just blindly bombing areas in Syria has got innocent civilians killed.

Where in my comment did I say taking out Osama is bad. He got what was deserved in the end...?

But because of the enormity of his crimes, a few steps were skipped beforehand before they decided his fate....

Quote:
"The issue here is whether what was done was an act of legitimate self-defence," said Benjamin Ferencz, an international law specialist who served as a prosecutor during the Nuremburg trials and argued that it would have been better to capture Bin Laden and send him to court.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13318372

Damien 04-05-2018 19:26
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
I don't think it's right to expect American troops to take further risks in an attempt to take him back. The risk would have been a lot higher to take him alive. Bin Laden was in hiding in almost plain sight in Pakistan with little opposition from their government.

He chose to live outside the law. He was an enemy combatant. You take these people out. Expecting to capture them is unrealistic. Domestically you obey the law but on the international stage the world doesn't work that way.

1andrew1 05-05-2018 00:02
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
The incidence of stabbings in the UK in recent years is terrible but I don't get the relevance of Trump's exaggerated picture here.
Quote:
"I recently read a story that in London, which has unbelievably tough gun laws, a once very prestigious hospital right in the middle is like a war zone for horrible stabbing wounds," he said on Friday.
"They don't have guns. They have knives and instead there's blood all over the floors of this hospital.
"They say it's as bad as a military war zone hospital. Knives, knives, knives, knives." He mimed a stabbing motion.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44007312

Mick 05-05-2018 00:21
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
BREAKING: Former Secretary of State under Obama’s Administration John Kerry, has secretly met with Iranian FM Javad Zarif to try to save the 'Iran deal' against US policy, in violation of the Logan Act - Boston Globe

Stephen 05-05-2018 08:06
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35945921)
The incidence of stabbings in the UK in recent years is terrible but I don't get the relevance of Trump's exaggerated picture here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-44007312
Another rant by Mr know it all. No evidence or facts involved at his gun convention.

He Cleary has no interest in solving gun crime, instead offering support to the gun wielding fools of the nation.

Damien 05-05-2018 08:10
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
The Boston Globe isn't saying it's a violation of the Logan act.

From the actual story: http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nati...CUL/story.html

Quote:
The Logan Act prohibits US citizens from having private correspondence with a foreign government “with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government . . . in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States.”

Stephen Vladeck, a law professor at the University of Texas, said the law is a red herring — since it’s never been used to prosecute anyone — and almost certainly would not apply to anything Kerry is doing.

“The act only applies to conduct that is designed to ‘defeat the measures of the United States’ or influence the conduct of foreign governments,” Vladeck said. “If all Kerry is doing is working to keep in place something that’s still technically a ‘measure of the United States,’ I don’t see how the statute would apply even if someone was crazy enough to try it.”

nomadking 05-05-2018 08:11
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35945930)
Another rant by Mr know it all. No evidence or facts involved at his gun convention.

He Cleary has no interest in solving gun crime, instead offering support to the gun wielding fools of the nation.
You were saying?
Quote:
A surgeon in London has likened his hospital to a war zone and says he is regularly treating children in school uniform for knife wounds.
Martin Griffiths, a lead surgeon at Barts Health NHS Trust, said military colleagues have described their work as being similar to Camp Bastion, the British Forces base in Afghanistan.
...
Speaking about the shocking spate of attacks, Mr Griffiths told BBC Radio 4's Today programme

Stephen 05-05-2018 08:16
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Likened to is not fact or evidence that it is actually a war zone, or that there is blood all over the floors. Trump exaggerating things yet again.

nomadking 05-05-2018 08:21
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35945934)
Likened to is not fact or evidence that it is actually a war zone, or that there is blood all over the floors. Trump exaggerating things yet again.
Quote:
the president said he recently read that an unspecified London hospital was "like a war zone for horrible stabbing wounds".
Quote:
A surgeon in London has likened his hospital to a war zone
All consistent with what he said.

Based on people who are there in the hospital and would know what a warzone is like.
Quote:
said military colleagues have described their work as being similar to Camp Bastion, the British Forces base in Afghanistan.

denphone 05-05-2018 08:22
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35945934)
Likened to is not fact or evidence that it is actually a war zone, or that there is blood all over the floors. Trump exaggerating things yet again.
Whether its a war zone or not he should mind his own bloody business..

Hugh 05-05-2018 08:37
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
funny how he never said that 58 people dead and 851 injured was like a war zone...

1andrew1 05-05-2018 08:55
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35945938)
funny how he never said that 58 people dead and 851 injured was like a war zone...
He who pays the piper calls the tune.

nomadking 05-05-2018 09:00
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35945938)
funny how he never said that 58 people dead and 851 injured was like a war zone...
Quote:
"I recently read a story that in London, which has unbelievably tough gun laws, a once very prestigious hospital right in the middle is like a war zone for horrible stabbing wounds," he said on Friday.
"They don't have guns. They have knives and instead there's blood all over the floors of this hospital.
That was his point and it is true to that extent.

Mick 05-05-2018 10:27
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35945931)
The Boston Globe isn't saying it's a violation of the Logan act.

From the actual story: http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nati...CUL/story.html
Sigh. It is a Logan Act violation. He is not the Secretary of State any longer, he is an unauthorised person trying to conduct U.S policy in a Country the U.S a dispute with.

---------- Post added at 10:24 ---------- Previous post was at 10:22 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35945937)
Whether its a war zone or not he should mind his own bloody business..
Just like we should mind our business when we talk of their gun culture. I don’t agree with guns, but large parts of America does.

---------- Post added at 10:27 ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35945935)
All consistent with what he said.

Based on people who are there in the hospital and would know what a warzone is like.
It’s ok nomadking, the Crooked Hillary worshippers can’t stand the truth coming from Trump’s mouth. Trump derangement syndrome is in full swing mode. Pathetic. :rolleyes:

Damien 05-05-2018 10:41
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945950)
Sigh. It is a Logan Act violation. He is not the Secretary of State any longer, he is an unauthorised person trying to conduct U.S policy in a Country the U.S a dispute with.
I was just saying the Boston Globe and the law professor said it wasn't which is what your post implied.

I didn't know it was you saying it as opposed to them

Mick 05-05-2018 11:07
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
It wasn’t me saying it either, saw someones headline and copy’d and pasted. The Logan Act, was a law created in 1799, but to date not one person has been convicted of a breach of it.

If John Kerry has tried to interfere in a foreign policy, he should be in serious legal peril, but he is a Democrat, so he may probably get a pass.

The Scandals at the Department of Justice (Under Obama Administration) just keep mounting... DOJ Office if Inspector General announced yesterday, he has to delay his Committee testimony next week due to new leads in the Crooked Hillary email case and a further unredacted verson of the House report highlights there was inconsistencies with Acting Attorney General Sally Yates, (who Trump fired), James Comey (who Trump fired) and Andrew McCabe, (was fired by FBI and DOJ) testimony early last year, inconsistencies while giving evidence to lawmakers regarding Michael Flynn.

Damien 05-05-2018 11:49
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945956)
It wasn’t me saying it either, saw someones headline and copy’d and pasted. The Logan Act, was a law created in 1799, but to date not one person has been convicted of a breach of it.
.
Ok but that headline says the opposite of what the article said.

We're arguing this based on an inaccurate headline of an article which literally makes the opposite point.

Mick 05-05-2018 12:06
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Regardless of the semantics of the headline. John Kerry has no business trying to do anything with Iran. Yes no?

Damien 05-05-2018 12:08
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35945934)
Likened to is not fact or evidence that it is actually a war zone, or that there is blood all over the floors. Trump exaggerating things yet again.
Meh wouldn't worry about it. Playing to his audience.

Slagging off the NHS or the UK is surprisingly popular for them. :shrug:

---------- Post added at 12:08 ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945962)
Regardless of the semantics of the headline. John Kerry has no business trying to do anything with Iran. Yes no?
I don't think he should personally. No. Even if I do think the Iran deal should be kept.

Mick 05-05-2018 12:11
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Those who were saying Trump 'lied' about a London hospital being like a war zone due to knife crime, is this surgeon lying too then?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...l-12306851.amp

Stephen 05-05-2018 12:25
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
I would say an Afghan war zone is a lot worse than a London hospital.

pip08456 05-05-2018 12:46
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35945966)
I would say an Afghan war zone is a lot worse than a London hospital.
You perhaps but apparently not the doctors at Bart's that have seen service there.

Mick 05-05-2018 13:20
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
The Federal Judge T. Ellis III, who yesterday had doubts and reservations of Special Counsel Mueller’s scope, saying no prosecutor should have unfettered power, well his Wikipedia page was vandalised last night, some obvious leftie prick added ‘and Donald Trump lackey’ to his bio.

The Federal Judge was appointed by President Ronald Reagan in the 1980s. The page was fixed shortly after and a request to lock the page from any more vandalism.

This how sick some of these idiots on the left are. :rolleyes:

Damien 05-05-2018 13:21
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Ah he was a Republican judge :D

Mr Banana 05-05-2018 13:49
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945962)
Regardless of the semantics of the headline. John Kerry has no business trying to do anything with Iran. Yes no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35945969)
You perhaps but apparently not the doctors at Bart's that have seen service there.
I suspect the floor of a hospital dealing with the number of people shot in the Florida atrocity, looked a hell of a lot worse than St Barts. Looks like Trump doesn’t care about that, his pumped up speech to the NRA is akin to dancing on those poor kids graves.

1andrew1 05-05-2018 14:03
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945965)
Those who were saying Trump 'lied' about a London hospital being like a war zone due to knife crime, is this surgeon lying too then?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...l-12306851.amp
Per your above link, it's due to both knife and gun crime.
Quote:
"About a quarter of what we see in our practice is knife and gun injury and now we are doing major life saving cases on a daily basis," he said.
Whereas Trump said "They don’t have guns, they have knives..."

Mick 05-05-2018 16:17
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35945978)
I suspect the floor of a hospital dealing with the number of people shot in the Florida atrocity, looked a hell of a lot worse than St Barts. Looks like Trump doesn’t care about that, his pumped up speech to the NRA is akin to dancing on those poor kids graves.
Rubbish.

Actually, it’s the Authorities... how many times was the kid shooter reported to the FBI and they did nothing... It is no so such thing. Seriously over dramatics here.

Mr Banana 05-05-2018 17:03
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945987)
Rubbish.

Actually, it’s the Authorities... how many times was the kid shooter reported to the FBI and they did nothing... It is no so such thing. Seriously over dramatics here.
Tell that to the parents.

RizzyKing 05-05-2018 19:02
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
I'd tell the parents to ask the school why they didn't have Cruz charged when he attended the school with weapons and ammunition rather then take the quick and easy route of just expelling him. Then I'd tell them to go and ask the local police department why they failed to act on over 30 reports of Cruz's behaviour including threatening other people with and without weapons one report also highlighted that Cruz had a firearm in the yard. Then as Mick said I'd send them to the F.B.I who also ignored numerous reports and when pulled up on it they shout lack of resources.

That school shooting was a massive failure of the system and people are now calling for the system to be more involved with firearms, well why not they have such a great track record. Just as happened in the UK the attention has been taken away from all the system failures and focused just on firearms by those who couldn't care less about the victims just their anti gun agenda. While mass shootings of course are terrible and should call for a review of the system it has to be measured against the good firearms do in the U.S with each year a minimum of 700,000 defensive uses that save lives and that's the figure obama got after spending ten million dollars to try and prove firearms were only a negative aspect of the U.S.

1andrew1 05-05-2018 22:03
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Trump's point is ruled ridiculous by the surgeon who heads the group overseeing London's trauma treatment
Quote:
A senior London surgeon has hit back at US President Donald Trump for criticising the level of knife crime in the city while defending US gun laws.
Prof Karim Brohi, who heads the group overseeing the city's trauma treatment, said it was "ridiculous" to suggest guns could help combat knife violence.
He said the capital faced a "serious issue" but gunshot wounds were at least twice as lethal as knife injuries.
Mr Trump's comments came in a speech to the National Rifle Association (NRA).
Addressing the firearms lobby's conference in Dallas, Texas, on Friday, Mr Trump referred to reading a story "that in London, which has unbelievably tough gun laws, a once very prestigious hospital right in the middle is like a war zone for horrible stabbing wounds".
Trump's put-down to Barts as "a once very prestigious hospital" did not go unnoticed by Dr Griffiths. He responded to Trump on Twitter including an invitation "happy to invite Mr Trump to my prestigious hospital".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44017054

Stephen 05-05-2018 22:05
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35945965)
Those who were saying Trump 'lied' about a London hospital being like a war zone due to knife crime, is this surgeon lying too then?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...l-12306851.amp
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...london-surgeon

Quote:
The suggestion by Donald Trump that guns are part of the solution to knife crime in London is ridiculous, a trauma surgeon in the capital has said.

The US president told the National Rifle Association convention in Dallas on Friday that a “once very prestigious hospital” in London was .

He appeared to be referring to reported comments from Martin Griffiths, a lead trauma surgeon at the Royal London hospital, in Whitechapel, who likened the spate of stabbing victims coming through the doors .

Hugh 05-05-2018 22:27
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Here are hospitals (and other buildings)in a ‘war zone’ - wonder why Trumper never mentioned them in his speech?

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/...trip-massacre/
Quote:
“It was like we were in a war zone,”...

....UMC medical personnel and others at Sunrise, Valley and St. Rose Dominican hospitals said the carnage 64-year-old Stephen Paddock unleashed at the Route 91 country music festival adjacent to Mandalay Bay was beyond anything you could imagine. Patients arrived so fast that the surgeons and support personnel couldn’t begin to keep up.

“We had our eight trauma operating rooms going within an hour of when we started receiving patients,” Coates said. “People were lined up along the walls.”
“It was controlled chaos, a combat medical hospital — blood everyplace,” said Dr. Dale Carrison, head of emergency and chief of staff at UMC.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-a7082576.html
Quote:
t was around 2am when staff at the Orlando Regional Medical Centre got word of ambulances heading in bearing gunshot victims. They had no idea that within moments their hospital would be transformed into what one doctor likened to “a war zone”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43835274
Quote:
"It was like a war zone… blood on the stairs, in the hallways, blood in front of the building, bodies being dragged
https://www.thedailybeast.com/suther...ength-in-jesus
Quote:
“It looked worse than a war zone,” said Montgomery. “I’ve been in war and I’ve never seen anything like it.
More people were killed in a hour by guns in Vegas than have been killed by knives in the first three months of this year London - which is the real war zone?

1andrew1 05-05-2018 23:16
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35945996)
That school shooting was a massive failure of the system and people are now calling for the system to be more involved with firearms, well why not they have such a great track record. Just as happened in the UK the attention has been taken away from all the system failures and focused just on firearms by those who couldn't care less about the victims just their anti gun agenda. While mass shootings of course are terrible and should call for a review of the system it has to be measured against the good firearms do in the U.S with each year a minimum of 700,000 defensive uses that save lives and that's the figure obama got after spending ten million dollars to try and prove firearms were only a negative aspect of the U.S.
Do you have a source for this? Most data I've seen is in the low thousands eg http://www.vpc.org/studies/justifiable.pdf

Mick 06-05-2018 00:04
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35945989)
Tell that to the parents.
More over dramatics. I Don’t need to, I heard from some of them when they spoke at the White House, when Trump invited them to speak about solutions, the banning of guns wasn’t one of them. You can’t ban guns in a country that has more guns than people. There was a lot anger at all the chances missed to stop Cruz. Reported handfuls of times. So no, I don’t need to tell that to the parents.

1andrew1 06-05-2018 00:13
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Some more Trump revelations, described by a former high-ranking British diplomat as “It’s bloody outrageous to do this. The whole point of negotiations is to not play dirty tricks like this.”
Trump can of course deny any knowledge but that's what he said about the $130k reimbursement to pay Stormy Daniels.

Quote:
Aides to Donald Trump, the US president, hired an Israeli private intelligence agency to orchestrate a “dirty ops” campaign against key individuals from the Obama administration who helped negotiate the Iran nuclear deal, the Observer can reveal.
People in the Trump camp contacted private investigators in May last year to “get dirt” on Ben Rhodes, who had been one of Barack Obama’s top national security advisers, and Colin Kahl, deputy assistant to Obama, as part of an elaborate attempt to discredit the deal.
The extraordinary revelations come days before Trump’s 12 May deadline to either scrap or continue to abide by the international deal limiting Iran’s nuclear programme.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...n-nuclear-deal

Stephen 06-05-2018 00:16
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35946026)
More over dramatics. I Don’t need to, I heard from some of them when they spoke at the White House, when Trump invited them to speak about solutions, the banning of guns wasn’t one of them. You can’t ban guns in a country that has more guns than people. There was a lot anger at all the chances missed to stop Cruz. Reported handfuls of times. So no, I don’t need to tell that to the parents.
Again not factually accurate. At last estimate there was about 260 million guns with a population of about 325 million people.

There are so many things they could do to slow down sales of guns and also reduce legal types to just low powered hand guns and make rifles and machine guns illegal or only purchase under certain circumstances.

The fact he met with those kids and families hand no intention of actually listening doing anything about the issue and was at his 6th NRA meeting in the last 2 years shows who his loyalties lie with.

RizzyKing 06-05-2018 00:32
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Stephen automatic weapons are already restricted they are whats known as an NFA item it is very difficult to obtain them even in states that allow them and the cost is astronomical. As for banning rifles do you mean certain one's or all rifles which would be a politically suicidal thing to do given the number of americans who hunt to provide food for their families. Rather then put a long list of links Andrew just google "cdc defensive gun use study" as well as the number of times firearms are used in a defensive situation the study showed that armed citizens were less likely to be injured by criminal acts.

It's all well and good having a go at Trump on gun control but no president in the last thirty years has really done a single thing that wasn't short lived and they have all seen mass shootings so why the sudden expectation that Trump who was known to be pro gun before he was elected should suddenly do more then his predecessors. Firearms in the U.S is not a simple black and white issue despite how some make it out to be they are a part of the national identity firearms in the hands of citizens has existed since the birth of the U.S as a nation.

Cars, medical mistakes, industrial accidents, alcohol and tobacco all kill far more then firearms though nobody bothers too much on reigning in those areas only firearms and like it or not the 2nd amendment protects firearms in the hands of citizens and strengthens the other amendments so unless a politician is prepared to risk massive social unrest americans will stay armed for a long time to come.

Mr Banana 06-05-2018 08:12
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Mr Gobshite has cheesed the French off as well.

US President Donald Trump has outraged French opinion by suggesting the 2015 attacks on Paris could have been stopped by giving people guns.
He mimicked gunmen summoning and shooting victims one by one, saying "Boom! Come over here!" and using his hand to imitate a gun being fired.
In reality, the attackers sprayed many of their 130 victims with semi-automatic fire and set off bomb belts.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...-a3832181.html

nomadking 06-05-2018 08:38
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
The Bataclan hall attack was brought to an end by armed police officers. If somebody in the hall had had a gun and used it, the attack would have been stopped earlier. On the other hand, how likely would it be for somebody to take a gun to a concert? As for the suicide vests, that shows that banning guns isn't a solution.

A mass gun attack only works if carried out from far enough away to avoid return fire or where it is very unlikely that anybody else is armed. Nothing much can be done about the first, only about the second.

Mick 06-05-2018 09:55
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 35946028)
Again not factually accurate. At last estimate there was about 260 million guns with a population of about 325 million people.

There are so many things they could do to slow down sales of guns and also reduce legal types to just low powered hand guns and make rifles and machine guns illegal or only purchase under certain circumstances.

The fact he met with those kids and families hand no intention of actually listening doing anything about the issue and was at his 6th NRA meeting in the last 2 years shows who his loyalties lie with.
Machine Guns are illegal or any fully automatic weapon.

You can limit gun sales, but what about the millions guns already in circulation?

And actually there is more guns in Anerica than people, that is factually accurate, so don’t tell me that it isn’t.

His loyalties lie with the 2nd Amendment & People who lawfully use a gun.

---------- Post added at 09:55 ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35946040)
Mr Gobshite has cheesed the French off as well.

US President Donald Trump has outraged French opinion by suggesting the 2015 attacks on Paris could have been stopped by giving people guns.
He mimicked gunmen summoning and shooting victims one by one, saying "Boom! Come over here!" and using his hand to imitate a gun being fired.
In reality, the attackers sprayed many of their 130 victims with semi-automatic fire and set off bomb belts.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/worl...-a3832181.html
Do not use inappropriate and rude names (For Politicians, Celebrities, Famous Brands). This is a forum for grownup discussion.

1andrew1 06-05-2018 10:10
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35946044)
Machine Guns are illegal or any fully automatic weapon.

You can limit gun sales, but what about the millions guns already in circulation?

And actually there is more guns in Anerica than people, that is factually accurate, so don’t tell me that it isn’t.

His loyalties lie with the 2nd Amendment & People who lawfully use a gun.
Trump's loyalties lie with whoever is funding him. He wasn't particularly pro-arms before the NRA and its cheque book beckoned.

In terms of guns, Wikipedia says the US population is 328m people and Researchgate says Americans own between 262m-310m firearms. It's not easy to prove the precise number so I can understand you and Stephen disagreeing on this number; newspaper articles do as I show below.
https://www.researchgate.net/publica..._United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr..._United_States

Two articles on the subject:
1) The US is home to 88 guns for every 100 people (October 2017)
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...nce-statistics
2) There are now more guns than people in the United States (October 2015)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.582d78d9e408

On another note - the barbecue beckons - enjoy the sunny bank holiday everyone! :)

pip08456 06-05-2018 10:35
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35945996)
I'd tell the parents to ask the school why they didn't have Cruz charged when he attended the school with weapons and ammunition rather then take the quick and easy route of just expelling him. Then I'd tell them to go and ask the local police department why they failed to act on over 30 reports of Cruz's behaviour including threatening other people with and without weapons one report also highlighted that Cruz had a firearm in the yard. Then as Mick said I'd send them to the F.B.I who also ignored numerous reports and when pulled up on it they shout lack of resources.

That school shooting was a massive failure of the system and people are now calling for the system to be more involved with firearms, well why not they have such a great track record. Just as happened in the UK the attention has been taken away from all the system failures and focused just on firearms by those who couldn't care less about the victims just their anti gun agenda. While mass shootings of course are terrible and should call for a review of the system it has to be measured against the good firearms do in the U.S with each year a minimum of 700,000 defensive uses that save lives and that's the figure obama got after spending ten million dollars to try and prove firearms were only a negative aspect of the U.S.
Interesting article in Times magazine about this FBI failure and others. Also the public's changing confidence in the FBI.

http://time.com/5264153/the-fbi-is-i...ing-the-price/

Mick 06-05-2018 10:35
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
It’s not hard to do the maths Andrew. 310 Million guns in owners possession going off your principle, what about all the other millions of guns in shops and the black market. Plus gun enthusiasts potentially own well over 50 guns. I saw a stat of for every one person in America, there is 12 guns.

1andrew1 06-05-2018 11:09
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35946049)
It’s not hard to do the maths Andrew. 310 Million guns in owners possession going off your principle, what about all the other millions of guns in shops and the black market. Plus gun enthusiasts potentially own well over 50 guns. I saw a stat of for every one person in America, there is 12 guns.
It is hard if you correctly read the data which is between 268m and 310m not 310m. Hence you and Stephen are potentially both right. Happy days. ;) Now, time for us all to put those beers in the fridge and soak up those rays!

Mick 06-05-2018 11:13
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Sorry, no can do with the beer. Some of us have to work this afternoon. ;)

Hugh 06-05-2018 14:27
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
From Trump’s speech to the NRA
Quote:
"Thanks to your activism and dedication, you have an administration fighting to protect your Second Amendment and we will protect your Second Amendment," he said. "Your Second Amendment rights are under siege, but they will never ever be under siege as long as I am your president."
So are they, or are they not, under siege?

(because he says they are and they aren’t)

---------- Post added at 14:27 ---------- Previous post was at 14:24 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35946026)
More over dramatics. I Don’t need to, I heard from some of them when they spoke at the White House, when Trump invited them to speak about solutions, the banning of guns wasn’t one of them. You can’t ban guns in a country that has more guns than people. There was a lot anger at all the chances missed to stop Cruz. Reported handfuls of times. So no, I don’t need to tell that to the parents.
But they did ask for more Gun Control, and it’s one of the NRA’s tactics to conflate any form of gun control with gun bans, when they are two completely separate things.

RizzyKing 06-05-2018 15:30
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
The irony of talking about more gun control is it actually gets people out buying more firearms worried that they may be banned and if nobody had talked about gun control there would probably be far less firearms then there are in the U.S. Same thing with ammunition sale's of the three most popular calibre's .223\5.56x45, .308\7.62x51 and 9mm increase massively anytime gun control is talked about with many bulk supplier's having to increase order's to keep up with sale's. Firearms are not going anywhere anytime soon in the U.S as ownership of firearms has dramatically increased in the last three decades and the range of firearms has also ballooned.

Of course Trump is going to play to the firearms community they voted for him in huge numbers probably swinging a couple of states he owes them and he knows it as does the community who will not react well if they feel he is going against their rights and interests. Whenever firearms are discussed by people outside of the U.S they talk about the NRA as this great champion of the citizen and their right to own firearms but the truth is apart from when Charlton Heston was running things the NRA has a lousy record of advocating for firearms. They are usually the first to offer compromises on firearms and accessories as they did with this latest incident offering a ban on bumpfire stocks before anyone else had even mentioned it. They are viewed by the firearms community as that good at defending gun rights that active membership is down with people moving to another organisation that's growing rapidly because of their "not one inch" attitude and the GOA (Gun Owner's of America) is likely to surpass the NRA as the main citizens representatives within fifteen years.

The problem in the U.S isn't the firearms as much as the lousy performance of the agency's that are supposed to oversee the system such as the ATF, FBI and local law enforcement. The other aspect that contributes heavily to mass shootings is an abysmal mental health system that scares the hell out of people who then when they have issue's don't seek help. Right now the biggest thing helping the anti gun campaigners is the firearms community themself they are so busy fighting with each other over ridiculous issue's that they have failed completely to oppose the current anti gun culture which is breathtaking in its ignorance and stupidity regarding firearms and could be easily silenced.

TheDaddy 06-05-2018 19:53
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35946046)
Trump's loyalties lie with whoever is funding him. He wasn't particularly pro-arms before the NRA and its cheque book beckoned.
Funnily enough his loyalty wasn't always republican either, he always said he'd stand more chance as or with the democrats

Hugh 06-05-2018 23:26
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
1 Attachment(s)
All this talk of ‘witch hunts’.

Benghazi: 4 year investigation no indictments.
Clinton emails: 2 year investigation no indictments.
Mueller investigation: 14 months 23 indictments.

For clarity:
23 warlocks* have been indicted.
4 warlocks are cooperating.
5 warlocks have plead guilty

*warlocks are male, witches are female

And in advance of a number of replies... :D

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...5&d=1525645513

Damien 08-05-2018 15:29
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Looks like Trump is about to announce the deal with Iran will be torn up. The UK and French governments have been lobbying hard against it but doesn't appear as it has worked. Although the NY Times are pointing out that the sanctions take a while to come into effect and so there might be time afterwards to deal (as with NAFTA, as with China and steel tariffs).

Mick 08-05-2018 17:10
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35946102)
All this talk of ‘witch hunts’.

Benghazi: 4 year investigation no indictments.
Clinton emails: 2 year investigation no indictments.
Mueller investigation: 14 months 23 indictments.
Keep venting the same misleading nonsense, Hugh. It does not mean it’s correct.

Clearly Shoddy investigative work by bent officials in the FBI are why a certain Email investigation had no indictments, why do you think the OIG has spent well over a year investigating that shoddy investigation?

As for the Mueller Investigation, non of those indictments link back to any wrong doing by Trump, so don’t try to mislead by saying there are 23 indictments from Mueller team.

The Mueller Investigation that seems out of control and pointless given there was no Collusion except by the DNC and Clinton campaign, who paid for the Steele Dossier, information said to be from Russians, a fact you keep conveniently ignoring. Dodgy FISA Warrants signed mostly by Obama appointees in DOJ and FBI. Finally a Federal Judge rebukes Muellers team, for the lies and unfettered power they seem to have and should not!

Hugh 08-05-2018 17:25
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Funny how you are anti Federal Judges when they disagree with Trump, but a big supporter when they agree...

How about 7 Republican-led Benghazi enquiries - was that shoddy work by the Republican investigators?

Re the Mueller investigation - there are 23 indictments, including a number on people who were in the Trump Election Campaign team, and one for someone who was a member of Trump's Government; let's wait until Trump has his interview with Mueller before we make any conclusions, eh?

http://theweek.com/speedreads/772022...ler-didnt-well
Quote:
The White House legal team has been preparing President Trump for a possible interview with Special Counsel Robert Mueller on the chance that the two sides reach an agreement in the coming weeks, The Wall Street Journal reports. In a four-hour practice session, though, lawyers were only able to get through two questions with the president due to "the frequent interruptions on national security matters along with Mr. Trump's loquaciousness," the Journal writes. Mueller has more than four dozen questions prepared for Trump.

Mick 08-05-2018 18:10
Re: President Trump & U.S Election 2016 Investigation
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35946279)
Funny how you are anti Federal Judges when they disagree with Trump, but a big supporter when they agree...
Nothing funny about it at all. You are wrong, as per usual.

The so called Democrat appointed Federal Judges, who blocked the travel ban Executive Orders, were at fault, the President of the United States, has the constitutional authority to block entry to the U.S from those Countries that were on the dangerous list, compiled by the Obama team. That’s why the U.S Supreme Court overruled the lower courts and put most parts of Trump’s EO back in to order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
]How about 7 Republican-led Benghazi enquiries - was that shoddy work by the Republican investigators?
Was a Special Counsel sought for that case?

Don’t think it was. Congressional lawmakers, who are the investigators, don’t have prosecutorial powers, there are many unanswered questions surrounding that attack and even one of the victims mothers, said Hillary lied, told her one thing in public and another thing in a email that was obtained by Wikileaks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh
Re the Mueller investigation - there are 23 indictments, including a number on people who were in the Trump Election Campaign team, and one for someone who was a member of Trump's Government; let's wait until Trump has his interview with Mueller before we make any conclusions, eh?
Hmm that would be Manafort, non of his indictments link to any Collusion. Michael Flynn, didn’t a recently unredacted report show FBI felt Flynn didn’t lie to FBI investigators? (One of whom was Bent Agent Peter Strzok who interviewed Flynn)

You should also be aware Mueller has for the second time, held off requesting a court hearing for the Flynn case, there is also the issue of the recent Brady violation, Mueller potentially suppressed evidence favourable to a defendant, that violates due process, oh and that Flynn indictment, bears no relevance to Russian collusion on Trump.

---------- Post added at 18:10 ---------- Previous post was at 18:06 ----------

Associated Press are reporting that President Donald Trump is set to announce that the U.S will pull out of the Iran deal.


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