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-   -   Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered ! (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33704414)

1andrew1 03-04-2017 18:03
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 35893097)
Sometimes Andrew i think you deliberately ignore what people mean to further your point i never said trump was anti globalist i said the voters were and showed that at the first chance they had trump benefitted from that. He was a very large protest vote attractor for people to show their utter frustration and fatigue of a political type that has no interest in people only their blinkered agenda. I will now leave this thread as nothing new of any substance has occured and the constant retreading of the same old rubbish is getting more then a bit boring and i can do without the rambling doom and gloom constantly peddled by a few members of this forum.
I totally agree with you that Trump was a protest vote and that many of his supporters felt ignored by existing politicians.
What I pointed out was that multinational shares have performed well since Trump came to power so the theory you put forward "and if you doubt it slows anything just look at what's happened with the brexit and trump votes" seems invalid as nothing seems to be being slowed down.

passingbat 03-04-2017 18:18
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35893102)
I totally agree with you that Trump was a protest vote .

Not by Evangelical Christians it wasn't. Nor from the Heartlands, who had seen manufacturing depleted

1andrew1 03-04-2017 18:27
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35893104)
Not by Evangelical Christians it wasn't. Nor from the Heartlands, who had seen manufacturing depleted
Hey, cut us some slack, Rizzy and I were just agreeing on something! :D

passingbat 03-04-2017 18:42
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35893106)
Hey, cut us some slack, Rizzy and I were just agreeing on something! :D


I have to keep an eye on you Bilderbergers ;) I can't have you lulling us into a false sense of security, and then end up, down the line, believing that black is really white, now can I? :D

Damien 03-04-2017 19:38
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35893091)
Since he has no role in government maybe the media ought to report what he said (if they're going to bother at all) making that point quite clear and not exaggerating his influence and extrapolating it to govt. policy.
Too exciting for them. The Telegraph loved it especially with the comparison to the Falklands.

1andrew1 03-04-2017 20:09
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35893107)
I have to keep an eye on you Bilderbergers ;) I can't have you lulling us into a false sense of security, and then end up, down the line, believing that black is really white, now can I? :D
Ha ha. I need to post more anti-Brexit comments before I'm allowed to attend the next meeting! And paying VM to keep Fox News off their platform is costing me the earth! :D

Osem 03-04-2017 20:30
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35893120)
Too exciting for them. The Telegraph loved it especially with the comparison to the Falklands.
So we have the media trying to turn the comments of a political has been into a diplomatic incident they can then spend even more time reporting. Self serving or what?

Damien 03-04-2017 20:32
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35893134)
So we have the media trying to turn the comments of a political has been into a diplomatic incident they can then spend even more time reporting. Self serving or what?
Well yeah, they've been doing that for as long as I've know about the media.

Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY

1andrew1 03-04-2017 20:42
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35893134)
So we have the media trying to turn the comments of a political has been into a diplomatic incident they can then spend even more time reporting. Self serving or what?
Until such time as newspapers don't need buyers or advertising this will continue to happen.

Osem 03-04-2017 20:45
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35893107)
I have to keep an eye on you Bilderbergers ;) I can't have you lulling us into a false sense of security, and then end up, down the line, believing that black is really white, now can I? :D
The elite are right now living the high life, their worries are longer term and just like their investments, their plans and allegiances are focused on the future when things are likely to get much harder as their obscene wealth comes under increasing scrutiny as Sir Philip Green will testify. Lehman Bros. was sacrificed but Goldman Sachs has a very big fat finger in every pie at the highest level - whose interests do they serve? You and me? :rolleyes:

Can you imagine a scenario in which the super rich and powerful wouldn't do their utmost to try to exert undue influence political leaders and government policy to suit themselves? I can't. It wasn't that long ago that cash for questions was in the news and we know full well what sort of company our glorious leaders all too often like to keep - free holidays on billionaire's yachts, private islands etc. etc. Just because a few of them get caught out and are made to suffer doesn't mean that corruption isn't a serious problem with a common theme. The rich and the powerful will stick together because of their common interests and do whatever they can to secure their long term wellbeing. They're already doing it all over the place by funding one party or another according to what suits them NOT for the common good.

---------- Post added at 20:45 ---------- Previous post was at 20:44 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35893135)
Well yeah, they've been doing that for as long as I've know about the media.

Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY
So what we really need to do is not perpetuate their nonsense but make it plain that govt. policy isn't and almost certainly never will be to go to war with Spain. End of story, end of ridiculous media speculation and pot stirring.

Damien 03-04-2017 20:50
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35893138)
The rich and the powerful will stick together because of their common interests and do whatever they can to secure their long term wellbeing. They're already doing it all over the place by funding one party or another according to what suits them NOT for the common good.
People with a lot of money will always be able to exert control to an extent. I think it's important to separate that behaviour from a conspiracy of world control as if this is organised and planned rather than people reacting to events, often with the short-term in mind.

Also these people also oppose each other. They bankroll opposition parties. Trump and Brexit had elites behind them, as did Clinton and Remain. The interests of Bill Gates and Elon Musk do not gel with the interests of The Koch Brothers or Murdoch.

I would support the public financing of elections to be honest. That would help remove some power from the richest, maybe, or we could support candidates that don't raise much corporate money such as Sanders in the States. Your signature though slams Corbyn as part of this elite, I don't like him and think he is destroying the role of the opposition, but the Tories are far more in tune with those elites you talk of than Corbyn.

1andrew1 03-04-2017 21:01
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35893140)
People with a lot of money will always be able to exert control to an extent. I think it's important to separate that behaviour from a conspiracy of world control as if this is organised and planned rather than people reacting to events, often with the short-term in mind.

Also these people also oppose each other. They bankroll opposition parties. Trump and Brexit had elites behind them, as did Clinton and Remain. The interests of Bill Gates and Elon Musk do not gel with the interests of The Koch Brothers or Murdoch.

I would support the public financing of elections to be honest. That would help remove some power from the richest, maybe, or we could support candidates that don't raise much corporate money such as Sanders in the States. Your signature though slams Corbyn as part of this elite, I don't like him and think he is destroying the role of the opposition, but the Tories are far more in tune with those elites you talk of than Corbyn.
Spot on.
.:tu:

Ramrod 03-04-2017 22:09
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35893010)
Why would this benefit multinational companies? They benefit by playing states off one another for tax deals, lighter regulations and government grants. A global government would end this.
Or impose a totalitarian rule on us which is exploited by (previously multinational) companies.

---------- Post added at 22:09 ---------- Previous post was at 22:03 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35893140)
People with a lot of money will always be able to exert control to an extent. I think it's important to separate that behaviour from a conspiracy of world control
There is a conspiracy (call it a long term ideal, a vision of the future, if it makes you feel better) to create a bloc of american countries (north and south), another of asian countries and yet another of european countries (the EU). Then 'they' will combine them together into a one world government.
This is a good idea. It's logical and I am all for it as long as it's done with our consent and not in a cackhanded way like the EU is being attempted.
If it's done against the will of the peoples of the planet then we should fight it as much as we can.

papa smurf 04-04-2017 10:08
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
'You're listening now, aren't you?' Hilary Benn on Brexiteers' referendum wake-up call

Mr Benn said: “The reason why 52 per cent of the population voted to leave was, for me, about a whole host of things. Yes, migration and immigration and change and jobs and stagnant wages and austerity and sovereignty and a desire not to be told what to do any more by others.
“But I would sum it up as a feeling of ‘we don’t think that you are listening to us’ and if someone was standing on this stage today representing the 52 per cent, they would look everyone in the audience who voted Remain and say ‘you’re listening now, aren’t you?’

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/787...m-wake-up-call

ianch99 04-04-2017 10:56
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35893140)
People with a lot of money will always be able to exert control to an extent. I think it's important to separate that behaviour from a conspiracy of world control as if this is organised and planned rather than people reacting to events, often with the short-term in mind.

Also these people also oppose each other. They bankroll opposition parties. Trump and Brexit had elites behind them, as did Clinton and Remain. The interests of Bill Gates and Elon Musk do not gel with the interests of The Koch Brothers or Murdoch.

I would support the public financing of elections to be honest. That would help remove some power from the richest, maybe, or we could support candidates that don't raise much corporate money such as Sanders in the States. Your signature though slams Corbyn as part of this elite, I don't like him and think he is destroying the role of the opposition, but the Tories are far more in tune with those elites you talk of than Corbyn.
One recent example of such a person is Arron Banks ..

1andrew1 04-04-2017 13:16
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35893205)
'You're listening now, aren't you?' Hilary Benn on Brexiteers' referendum wake-up call

Mr Benn said: “The reason why 52 per cent of the population voted to leave was, for me, about a whole host of things. Yes, migration and immigration and change and jobs and stagnant wages and austerity and sovereignty and a desire not to be told what to do any more by others.
“But I would sum it up as a feeling of ‘we don’t think that you are listening to us’ and if someone was standing on this stage today representing the 52 per cent, they would look everyone in the audience who voted Remain and say ‘you’re listening now, aren’t you?’

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/787...m-wake-up-call
Hilary Benn has also sensibly been pushing the Government about the costs of no deal.
Quote:
Labour MP Hilary Benn, who chairs the committee, told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "If the government is going to make this assertion that no deal would be better than a bad deal, I think everyone would expect the government to have done some assessment."
He pointed out that farming tariffs, financial services and emergency health care in Europe were all issues that would all "fall by the wayside" with no deal.
"They should make an assessment. Because in the absence of the government explaining what mitigating measures it would take to deal with that outcome, to say that no deal is better than a bad deal is unsubstantiated," said Mr Benn.
He added there is a "balance to be struck" and "a difference between doing the work behind the scenes and making it public".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39482530

Kursk 04-04-2017 13:37
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35893205)
“But I would sum it up as a feeling of ‘we don’t think that you are listening to us’ and if someone was standing on this stage today representing the 52 per cent, they would look everyone in the audience who voted Remain and say ‘you’re listening now, aren’t you?’
:D Oh yes. A task force should be despatched to Ibiza immediately. If they want Gib, we're having their beetches :) on account that we've paid for them several times over.

heero_yuy 04-04-2017 14:34
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35893236)
:D Oh yes. A task force should be despatched to Ibiza immediately. If they want Gib, we're having their beetches :) on account that we've paid for them several times over.
Maybe we should support Morocco to claim back the Spanish enclaves there. Sauce for the goose etc.

Quote:
The government of Morocco has requested from Spain the sovereignty of Ceuta and Melilla, of Perejil Island, and of some other small territories.
Wiki

1andrew1 04-04-2017 14:40
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Come on Team GB negotiators, let's keep these jobs in the UK!
Quote:
Up to 100,000 UK jobs at risk as Merkel and Juncker ally warns on euro clearing
The future of an estimated 100,000 jobs has been plunged into doubt after a close political ally of the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, and president of the European commission, Jean-Claude Juncker, warned that a prized sector in the City of London must relocate to EU soil after Brexit.
Manfred Weber, the leader of the largest political group in the European parliament, to which both the German chancellor and the commission president belong, told reporters that euro-denominated clearing could no longer be undertaken in the City when the UK leaves the EU.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...d-weber-brexit

papa smurf 04-04-2017 14:48
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35893248)
Come on Team GB negotiators, let's keep these jobs in the UK!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...d-weber-brexit
i'm starting to favor nuclear brexit as opposed to hard .

1andrew1 04-04-2017 14:54
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35893249)
i'm starting to favor nuclear brexit as opposed to hard .
A hard Brexit just destroys jobs in the UK. Fine if you're retired but for the generations seeking to earn an honest crust it's not so good.

pip08456 04-04-2017 15:31
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35893250)
A hard Brexit just destroys jobs in the UK. Fine if you're retired but for the generations seeking to earn an honest crust it's not so good.

Opinion given as fact again?

1andrew1 04-04-2017 15:59
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35893252)
Opinion given as fact again?
Nothing wrong in my post. Just because you don't agree with it no need to be so unconstructive about it.

papa smurf 04-04-2017 16:14
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
EU ULTIMATUM: Brussels tells Poland & Hungary to 'accept more migrants or LEAVE the bloc'

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...o-viktor-orban

passingbat 04-04-2017 16:19
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35893250)
A hard Brexit just destroys jobs in the UK. .

Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35893252)
Opinion given as fact again?



No, Andrew, that is just your opinion.

Damien 04-04-2017 17:27
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
As for the passport.

I think we should change it, we have to anyway, but we should go for a bold redesign and not just pander to nostalgia. Those who want the old design back should be disappointed and instead we move forward with it. Look at the design of Norway's passport which shows the northern lights when the landscape pages are placed under a UV light.

I think that kind of attitude should be the one Remainders take forward. Try to influence the terms and direction of the country after Brexit, do what is possible to take control over what kind of country comes out of the process rather than cede it to the current lot.

papa smurf 04-04-2017 17:44
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35893262)
As for the passport.

I think we should change it, we have to anyway, but we should go for a bold redesign and not just pander to nostalgia. Those who want the old design back should be disappointed and instead we move forward with it. Look at the design of Norway's passport which shows the northern lights when the landscape pages are placed under a UV light.

I think that kind of attitude should be the one Remainders take forward. Try to influence the terms and direction of the country after Brexit, do what is possible to take control over what kind of country comes out of the process rather than cede it to the current lot.
that's the attitude that contributed to taking you out of the EU just ignoring what others want is not a wining strategy ,any hoo its just a passport it only see's the light of day at check points what does it matter what it looks like

Kursk 04-04-2017 17:46
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Remoaners can keep the pink passport. Ve vill know who zey are then :)

papa smurf 04-04-2017 17:49
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35893265)
Remoaners can keep the pink passport. Ve vill know who zey are then :)
oh that cards already marked mine friend [strokes cat and gives out evil laugh]

Kursk 04-04-2017 17:52
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35893266)
oh that cards already marked mine friend [strokes cat and gives out evil laugh]
You have been an evil papa for 30 frickin' years :D

papa smurf 04-04-2017 17:55
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35893267)
You have been an evil papa for 30 frickin' years :D
iv'e worn out 8 cat's :)

Kursk 04-04-2017 17:58
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35893268)
iv'e worn out 8 cat's :)
No sex talk please, we're British (well, some of us are).

papa smurf 04-04-2017 17:59
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35893265)
Remoaners can keep the pink passport. Ve vill know who zey are then :)
no point having a passport for somewhere they don't want to live in it could be made single use [one way only ].

---------- Post added at 17:59 ---------- Previous post was at 17:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35893270)
No sex talk please, we're British (well, some of us are).
vee are ?:shocked:

Osem 04-04-2017 18:03
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35893252)
Opinion given as fact again?
Yes there's a bit of a common theme emanating from the EU's CF envoy... :D

Kursk 04-04-2017 18:05
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35893271)
no point having a passport for somewhere they don't want to live in it could be made single use [one way only ].

---------- Post added at 17:59 ---------- Previous post was at 17:58 ----------



vee are ?:shocked:
Ha, I don't see anyone leaving. All mouth and no principles :p:

ianch99 04-04-2017 18:16
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35893257)
No, Andrew, that is just your opinion.
So you are saying that the quote "EU lawmaker Manfred Weber says sector must relocate out of City of London after Brexit' is Andrew's opinion? :)

---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:12 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35893250)
A hard Brexit just destroys jobs in the UK. Fine if you're retired but for the generations seeking to earn an honest crust it's not so good.
Makes sense as the Leave voters were disproportionately the older & retired ones ..

The ones it impacts are the younger generation who again, disproportionately, wanted to Remain.

papa smurf 04-04-2017 18:41
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35893275)
So you are saying that the quote "EU lawmaker Manfred Weber says sector must relocate out of City of London after Brexit' is Andrew's opinion? :)

---------- Post added at 18:16 ---------- Previous post was at 18:12 ----------



Makes sense as the Leave voters were disproportionately the older & retired ones ..

The ones it impacts are the younger generation who again, disproportionately, wanted to Remain.
you mean adults ,we made the difficult decision for your benefit ;)

passingbat 04-04-2017 18:48
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35893275)
So you are saying that the quote "EU lawmaker Manfred Weber says sector must relocate out of City of London after Brexit' is Andrew's opinion? :).

No, this is what I said was purely Andrew's opinion.


Quote:
A hard Brexit just destroys jobs in the UK

papa smurf 04-04-2017 19:04
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Tiny Royal Navy patrol vessel chases giant Spanish gunboat out of British waters just off Gibraltar amid rising tensions over the Rock

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4dIz3Jne9
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7666576.html

Osem 04-04-2017 20:38
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35893289)
Tiny Royal Navy patrol vessel chases giant Spanish gunboat out of British waters just off Gibraltar amid rising tensions over the Rock

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4dIz3Jne9
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7666576.html
No doubt there'll be the cries of 'arrogant British' again. Yawn...

Hom3r 04-04-2017 20:55
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
This was a April Fools prank, it didn't bother me as I'm getting those carp stars off my numberplate buy getting a St George flag to cover them.

Quote:
BREXIT BOMBSHELL: EU to demand EVERY British number plate is RECALLED by 2019

EUROPEAN transport chiefs claim "safety of road users is at risk" if number plates are not changed in move which could cost YOU £35 per vehicle.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/786...-RECALLED-2019

papa smurf 04-04-2017 20:55
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35893309)
No doubt there'll be the cries of 'arrogant British' again. Yawn...
just a few days ago we where all part of team Europe now we seem to be the enemy :shrug:

Damien 04-04-2017 21:35
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35893263)
that's the attitude that contributed to taking you out of the EU just ignoring what others want is not a wining strategy ,any hoo its just a passport it only see's the light of day at check points what does it matter what it looks like
I don't think the colours of the passport was a concern for many brexiters and that the few who do seem obsessed with it, probably the same people who want to go back to imperial units, are unrepresentative of other Brexiters. I think it would be a symbolic indiction of the future if we went for a bold redesign as opposed to going back to the past.

It's just a minor area I think Remainers can start to have input on the country we want rather than worrying about the last battle.

---------- Post added at 21:35 ---------- Previous post was at 21:34 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem (Post 35893309)
No doubt there'll be the cries of 'arrogant British' again. Yawn...
IIRC This kind of thing happens a lot. The seas are disputed so they move into our waters and we chase them off. The press is more alert right now because they're getting excited at hyping the prospect of a conflict with Spain.

Kursk 04-04-2017 21:36
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35893289)
Tiny Royal Navy patrol vessel chases giant Spanish gunboat out of British waters just off Gibraltar amid rising tensions over the Rock

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz4dIz3Jne9
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7666576.html
The Aguilera Christina (or whatever its name is) had better load its torpedos; there's a less visible boat in attendance :D

1andrew1 04-04-2017 22:53
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk (Post 35893321)
The Aguilera Christina (or whatever its name is) had better load its torpedos; there's a less visible boat in attendance :D
Ha ha, love the name of the ship. :D

---------- Post added at 22:53 ---------- Previous post was at 22:49 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35893257)
No, Andrew, that is just your opinion.
The evidence is mounting up. For example
Quote:
Gazprom, Russia’s state-run gas group, is considering moving its trading and marketing operations out of the UK after the country leaves the EU amid fears of losing preferential access to the European market as a result of a “hard” Brexit.
https://www.ft.com/content/4224a61a-...d-df09f373be87

passingbat 04-04-2017 23:32
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35893331)
The evidence is mounting up. For example
https://www.ft.com/content/4224a61a-...d-df09f373be87

Wake me up when the FT has a pro Brexit story.... or the Express has a pro Remain story.


All these publications have an agenda, and choose stories to propagate that agenda.

ianch99 04-04-2017 23:34
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35893281)
you mean adults ,we made the difficult decision for your benefit ;)
Purple Dude, I am probably older than you!

Mr K 05-04-2017 08:01
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Free movement of people from the EU to the UK could be extended after Brexit, Theresa May has suggested.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39498647

The Govt. has woken up to the fact that ending free movement would be a disaster for our economy and be the final coffin nail in the NHS. Not that Theresa needs convincing anyway, a remainer. This is shaping up to be a cosmetic Brexit i.e in name only. It's still going to cause a lot of damage whatever, as the Govt. doesn't seem to have time for anything else.

Carry on Little Englanders ! (Shame Kenneth Williams & Sid James ain't alive, it would have been a fantastic addition to the series :))

Mick 05-04-2017 08:54
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35893363)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39498647

The Govt. has woken up to the fact that ending free movement would be a disaster for our economy and be the final coffin nail in the NHS. Not that Theresa needs convincing anyway, a remainer. This is shaping up to be a cosmetic Brexit i.e in name only. It's still going to cause a lot of damage whatever, as the Govt. doesn't seem to have time for anything else.

Carry on Little Englanders ! (Shame Kenneth Williams & Sid James ain't alive, it would have been a fantastic addition to the series :))
More anti-brexit nonsense from you Mr K. :rolleyes:

I really think you struggle to read properly and absorb stories as they are written. Or you just see a headline and are too lazy to read what it says in it's entirety.

Again, you're not putting across the story you have linked to, properly. The story actually infers that the will be a transitional period after Brexit. But the government will still implement border controls in due course.

Mr K 05-04-2017 09:31
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35893365)
More anti-brexit nonsense from you Mr K. :rolleyes:

I really think you struggle to read properly and absorb stories as they are written. Or you just see a headline and are too lazy to read what it says in it's entirety.

Again, you're not putting across the story you have linked to, properly. The story actually infers that the will be a transitional period after Brexit. But the government will still implement border controls in due course.
Good to see you're back out of 'naughty corner' Mick ;)

This country needs immigration, the NHS depends on it; the Brexit shambles is hitting nursing numbers badly already. https://www.theguardian.com/society/...record-numbers

Quote:
The number of EU nationals registering as nurses in England has dropped by 92% since the Brexit referendum in June, and a record number are quitting the NHS, it can be revealed.

pip08456 05-04-2017 10:08
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35893366)
Good to see you're back out of 'naughty corner' Mick ;)

This country needs immigration, the NHS depends on it; the Brexit shambles is hitting nursing numbers badly already. https://www.theguardian.com/society/...record-numbers
No, this country needs controlled immigration. That will not affect the NHS one iota.

Mr K 05-04-2017 10:24
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35893368)
No, this country needs controlled immigration. That will not affect the NHS one iota.
And how do you stop key people that are already here leaving ? Other countries are now seeming more welcome, that's the crisis facing the NHS.

Mick 05-04-2017 10:33
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35893366)
Good to see you're back out of 'naughty corner' Mick ;)
I was never in it, so no idea of this nonsense above, that you're blabbing on about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K
This country needs immigration, the NHS depends on it; the Brexit shambles is hitting nursing numbers badly already. https://www.theguardian.com/society/...record-numbers
No we don't. Rubbish. Uncontrolled immigration in the 100's of thousands is not sustainable. It's attracting more, unskilled, benefit scrounging Migrants than it is skilled migrants, we need to cap it and fast.

Mr K 05-04-2017 10:58
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35893371)
No we don't. Rubbish. Uncontrolled immigration in the 100's of thousands is not sustainable. It's attracting more, unskilled, benefit scrounging Migrants than it is skilled migrants, we need to cap it and fast.
That's not what the Govt. thinks Mick. They want free movement till at least 2022. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-may-suggests/

In my experience benefit scroungers tend to be home grown; whilst we are reliant on migrants to do all the rubbish jobs we won't lower ourselves to do (e.g. cleaning, the care sector). We're an ageing and idle population.

(p.s have you got out of the wrong side of bed again ? Cheer up it's spring ;) )

denphone 05-04-2017 11:08
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35893373)
That's not what the Govt. thinks Mick. They want free movement till at least 2022. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-may-suggests/

In my experience benefit scroungers tend to be home grown; whilst we are reliant on migrants to do all the rubbish jobs we won't lower ourselves to do (e.g. cleaning, the care sector). We're an ageing and idle population.

(p.s have you got out of the wrong side of bed again ? Cheer up it's spring ;) )
And would you like to hazard a guess as to how many benefit scroungers are home grown Mr K? as are you including the sick and disabled in that? and as for a idle population well that is another staggering statement that does not stand up to any scrutiny either Mr K as there are more people working then ever before last time l heard.

Ramrod 05-04-2017 11:09
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Interesting article about the brexit negotiations:
Britain has a secret weapon in its Brexit negotiations: America's spies
Quote:
The UK-US special relationship is the first element here. As the sole European member of the "Five Eyes" intelligence alliance, Britain has access to U.S. intelligence material that other European nations do not.
When it comes to negotiations with the EU, the NSA and GCHQ will have another important role: spying on EU negotiators. The NSA is likely to do this so as to give US policymakers early notice of how the negotiations are progressing (Edward Snowden’s leaks showed a clear US intelligence interest in intra-EU discussions). But the US is also likely to share much of what it learns with the UK. President Trump genuinely seems to like May and dislike Angela Merkel and the EU. Whether it’s the US intelligence community, the British intelligence community, or a joint operation, the UK and US are masters of spying against protected targets. European leaders know this.

Mick 05-04-2017 11:20
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35893373)
That's not what the Govt. thinks Mick. They want free movement till at least 2022. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-may-suggests/
Again, you have reading issues, it is a suggestion, does not mean it has been implemented.

I do not care what the government thinks, I see it with my own eyes, where I live, Eastern Europeans, such as Romanians, Polish nationals taking up housing, not working, some thieving and mugging from locals and basically living like animals, i.e throwing their crap in the streets and alley ways.

Two Romanian women tried to mug an elderly couple near our Tesco's the other week. They are **** and need to be sent packing, never mind locking up.

I could take a photo right now of a pile of nappies covered in human excrement (uncovered and not in nappy sacks) dumped by a migrant household, right outside their back gate and in some cases thrown out of their bedroom window, but I think it would be too gross to show on a public forum.

The same migrant household was throwing out their domestic rubbish in their yard and when their yard filled up with crap, with rotting materials and food, they just brushed it in to the alley ways, my neighbour caught one of them brushing it near her garden wall, she reported them to the council as did I and they kept on doing it so I reported them again.

It's nothing short of bloody disgusting how they were living, when I spoke to the council workers who came to clean it, they were heaving poor sods, I said I am sorry you have had to clean this crap up, they said it has got worse and they said it's the same EU nationals from the Eastern parts who basically live like dirty pigs.

It's alright for people like you and others who live down South, 'Yeah, let more in' but you won't put up with them living in your towns and cities, like we have to up here in the North. It's disgusting the way they live some of them.

Mr K 05-04-2017 11:24
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Bloody hell Mick where do you live ??? In my area the local hospital and care sector is dependent on migrants, those being cared for mostly elderly and British.

btw i'm very much 'up north', thank God.

Mick 05-04-2017 11:39
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35893377)
Bloody hell Mick where do you live ??? In my area the local hospital and care sector is dependent on migrants, those being cared for mostly elderly and British.

btw i'm very much 'up north', thank God.
Just to be clear Mr K, I am not against skilled migrants coming here for a living and to better their lives, what I am against is what I am witnessing and experiencing it first hand and that is EU nationals, who don't work, produce baby after baby and ride the benefit gravy train and it's not all EU-nationals but there is also some non-eu nationals who come here and have absolute disregard for the environment (something I know, you care passionately about) and live like animals.

My colleague said the road she lived on, some Nigerian migrants moved in to a rented house that her friend owned, she said, they stopped paying rent and were eventually evicted, they left the house like it had been dragged through a sewers and bin collection days it seemed did not apply to them, they just didn't throw anything away, just threw it either in the house or in the garden.

passingbat 05-04-2017 13:22
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Well done Nigel; we still need you keeping a close eye on things.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFAG-OVIlxE

Osem 05-04-2017 13:56
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
@ Mick - It happens 'down south' believe me and not only with migrants, plenty of home bred people behave that way and they have less of an excuse IMHO.

Where it doesn't happen is where the rich pious folks live - the ones who so often talk about 'welcomes' and 'tolerance' but live in gated communities, private estates and salubrious areas which are far too expensive for any but the wealthy. Their idea of 'generosity of spirit' is to let everyone else carry the burden of uncontrolled migration. Large numbers of people, including 'problem families', are being 'exported' away from the more expensive areas of London/SE to cheaper regions across the UK where they create additional problems in what are often already depressed towns.

nomadking 05-04-2017 14:13
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35893366)
Good to see you're back out of 'naughty corner' Mick ;)

This country needs immigration, the NHS depends on it; the Brexit shambles is hitting nursing numbers badly already. https://www.theguardian.com/society/...record-numbers
Total garbage. Germany is also short of doctors and nurses. Not only are they in the EU, they are going to remain. So how come they have a problem? Plus part of the German plan is to import 200,000 nurses from the Philippines, which is just a little bit outside the EU. Medical staff shortages is a WORLDWIDE thing.

passingbat 05-04-2017 14:22
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35893368)
No, this country needs controlled immigration. That will not affect the NHS one iota.

When will some remainers understand the difference between 'No immigration' and 'Controlled immigration'?????

heero_yuy 05-04-2017 15:03
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35893392)
Total garbage. Germany is also short of doctors and nurses. Not only are they in the EU, they are going to remain. So how come they have a problem? Plus part of the German plan is to import 200,000 nurses from the Philippines, which is just a little bit outside the EU. Medical staff shortages is a WORLDWIDE thing.
Doesn't help when we pillage second and third world countries of their medical staff instead of training up our own. What happens to patients in the Philippines though if Germany is luring away 200,000 of their nurses?

nomadking 05-04-2017 15:16
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35893406)
Doesn't help when we pillage second and third world countries of their medical staff instead of training up our own. What happens to patients in the Philippines though if Germany is luring away 200,000 of their nurses?
A difference is that the Philippines and other countries have plenty of people willing to train as nurses in the first place.

mrmistoffelees 05-04-2017 15:47
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35893376)
Again, you have reading issues, it is a suggestion, does not mean it has been implemented.

I do not care what the government thinks, I see it with my own eyes, where I live, Eastern Europeans, such as Romanians, Polish nationals taking up housing, not working, some thieving and mugging from locals and basically living like animals, i.e throwing their crap in the streets and alley ways.

Two Romanian women tried to mug an elderly couple near our Tesco's the other week. They are **** and need to be sent packing, never mind locking up.

I could take a photo right now of a pile of nappies covered in human excrement (uncovered and not in nappy sacks) dumped by a migrant household, right outside their back gate and in some cases thrown out of their bedroom window, but I think it would be too gross to show on a public forum.

The same migrant household was throwing out their domestic rubbish in their yard and when their yard filled up with crap, with rotting materials and food, they just brushed it in to the alley ways, my neighbour caught one of them brushing it near her garden wall, she reported them to the council as did I and they kept on doing it so I reported them again.

It's nothing short of bloody disgusting how they were living, when I spoke to the council workers who came to clean it, they were heaving poor sods, I said I am sorry you have had to clean this crap up, they said it has got worse and they said it's the same EU nationals from the Eastern parts who basically live like dirty pigs.

It's alright for people like you and others who live down South, 'Yeah, let more in' but you won't put up with them living in your towns and cities, like we have to up here in the North. It's disgusting the way they live some of them.
And there in the bolded part lies the crux. Some

It's disgusting the way some english born people live, what should we do about that kick them out? To where?

I'm not sure how far 'oop north' you are Mick?. But Middlesbrough has a fairly high percentage of migrants and I've never witnessed similar behaviour. and I have friends living in some of the rougher areas (Port Clarence, Park End, Grovehill to name but three) in fact whenever I have seen trouble in Middlesbrough it's been caused by local yobbos

There needs to be a balanced subjective view taken. But alas i think this is something that wont happen

Gavin78 05-04-2017 17:12
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 35893416)
And there in the bolded part lies the crux. Some

It's disgusting the way some english born people live, what should we do about that kick them out? To where?

I'm not sure how far 'oop north' you are Mick?. But Middlesbrough has a fairly high percentage of migrants and I've never witnessed similar behaviour. and I have friends living in some of the rougher areas (Port Clarence, Park End, Grovehill to name but three) in fact whenever I have seen trouble in Middlesbrough it's been caused by local yobbos

There needs to be a balanced subjective view taken. But alas i think this is something that wont happen
Come to Leeds then you'll see the state of Harehills infact I think the Leeds inner east police team have forgot about other areas they are supposed to cover for their region.

While I agree with the statement you make about our own yobs so lets deal with them and stop wasting resources on those that shouldn't be here. This is the reason we have inbred yobs because the police force and local councils can't deal with them for all the others abusing this country.

1andrew1 05-04-2017 19:10
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35893368)
No, this country needs controlled immigration. That will not affect the NHS one iota.
Alas this is wishful thinking.
Senior staff have spouses and controlled immigration permits only extend to the job-holder. So if you have a wife who's a brain surgeon and a husband who's a graphic designer, under such a system the wife would get a permit and the husband wouldn't. So the chances of the wife taking a brain surgeon's job in the UK are significantly reduced as the husband can't work.

martyh 05-04-2017 19:30
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35893392)
Total garbage. Germany is also short of doctors and nurses. Not only are they in the EU, they are going to remain. So how come they have a problem? Plus part of the German plan is to import 200,000 nurses from the Philippines, which is just a little bit outside the EU. Medical staff shortages is a WORLDWIDE thing.
Total garbage ,the reason why germany is struggling to fill healthcare positions is because of the influx of refugees swamping the hospitals and the fact that German healthcare providers are reluctant to recruit from abroad.

Despite a lack of personnel, more than half of nursing companies indicated that recruiting from abroad would not be an option in the future, the study said. Respondents said the process was too laborious, too expensive and the legal obstacles were too high.

Quote:
83% of companies surveyed, who had experience with foreign recruitment, had already come into contact with bureaucratic constraints, and two-thirds with problems in the recognition of qualifications. 60% of the companies indicated that they had difficulties getting immigration permits for third country nationals. As a result, two-thirds of those surveyed said legal obstacles should be dismantled and 87% called for better offerings with regard to language and integration courses
http://www.euractiv.com/section/soci...ecruit-abroad/

---------- Post added at 19:30 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35893376)
Again, you have reading issues, it is a suggestion, does not mean it has been implemented.

I do not care what the government thinks, I see it with my own eyes, where I live, Eastern Europeans, such as Romanians, Polish nationals taking up housing, not working, some thieving and mugging from locals and basically living like animals, i.e throwing their crap in the streets and alley ways.

Two Romanian women tried to mug an elderly couple near our Tesco's the other week. They are **** and need to be sent packing, never mind locking up.

I could take a photo right now of a pile of nappies covered in human excrement (uncovered and not in nappy sacks) dumped by a migrant household, right outside their back gate and in some cases thrown out of their bedroom window, but I think it would be too gross to show on a public forum.

The same migrant household was throwing out their domestic rubbish in their yard and when their yard filled up with crap, with rotting materials and food, they just brushed it in to the alley ways, my neighbour caught one of them brushing it near her garden wall, she reported them to the council as did I and they kept on doing it so I reported them again.

It's nothing short of bloody disgusting how they were living, when I spoke to the council workers who came to clean it, they were heaving poor sods, I said I am sorry you have had to clean this crap up, they said it has got worse and they said it's the same EU nationals from the Eastern parts who basically live like dirty pigs.

It's alright for people like you and others who live down South, 'Yeah, let more in' but you won't put up with them living in your towns and cities, like we have to up here in the North. It's disgusting the way they live some of them.
You appear to transposing your experience of one lot of migrants onto all migrants .I can categorically state that when i go into peoples council houses on a daily basis to work in them the most disgusting and dirty people are the British born layabouts sitting watching Jeremy Kyle on their 50" telly paid for by benefits

Osem 05-04-2017 19:40
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35893312)
just a few days ago we where all part of team Europe now we seem to be the enemy :shrug:
We've dared to leave their club and they don't like it one little bit. They'll huff, puff and get nasty and in so doing reveal what they really are people who only respect democracy when it suits them.

Mick 05-04-2017 19:44
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35893450)

You appear to transposing your experience of one lot of migrants onto all migrants .I can categorically state that when i go into peoples council houses on a daily basis to work in them the most disgusting and dirty people are the British born layabouts sitting watching Jeremy Kyle on their 50" telly paid for by benefits
Wrong, if you bothered to read, I said I had NO problem with skilled migrants, who want to come here to work for a better life.

The other migrants who don't want to work or do not want to provide anything, live off our state while being here need to be booted out.

As for UK Nationals sitting on their arse doing nothing and who are genuinely able to work, that's another subject for another day, they need to lose their benefits as well. I am talking about the lazy, unskilled migrants, who came here on the premise that British Streets are paved with Gold, we need to stop letting them in.

Osem 05-04-2017 19:47
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin78 (Post 35893428)
Come to Leeds then you'll see the state of Harehills infact I think the Leeds inner east police team have forgot about other areas they are supposed to cover for their region.

While I agree with the statement you make about our own yobs so lets deal with them and stop wasting resources on those that shouldn't be here. This is the reason we have inbred yobs because the police force and local councils can't deal with them for all the others abusing this country.
Yep, we have plenty of our own yobs and scroungers that we can't effectively deal with. All the more reason therefore to control immigration so that we don't import more.

nomadking 05-04-2017 19:47
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35893450)
Total garbage ,the reason why germany is struggling to fill healthcare positions is because of the influx of refugees swamping the hospitals and the fact that German healthcare providers are reluctant to recruit from abroad.

Despite a lack of personnel, more than half of nursing companies indicated that recruiting from abroad would not be an option in the future, the study said. Respondents said the process was too laborious, too expensive and the legal obstacles were too high.

http://www.euractiv.com/section/soci...ecruit-abroad/

---------- Post added at 19:30 ---------- Previous post was at 19:21 ----------

You appear to transposing your experience of one lot of migrants onto all migrants .I can categorically state that when i go into peoples council houses on a daily basis to work in them the most disgusting and dirty people are the British born layabouts sitting watching Jeremy Kyle on their 50" telly paid for by benefits
OECD report from 2005.
Quote:
There are reports of current nurse shortages in all but a few OECD countries. With further increases in demand for nurses expected and nurse workforce ageing predicted to reduce the supply of nurses, shortages are likely to persist or even increase in the future, unless action is taken to increase flows into and reduce flows out of the workforce or to raise the productivity of nurses.
2013
Quote:
Add to that an economic recession and more seniors requiring long-term care, and Europe may be facing a shortage of 1 million health professionals by 2020, according to a European Union Joint Action on Health Workforce Planning estimate.
...
It's actually bad all over: America, too, may have 1.2 million job openings for nurses, due to job growth and replacements, by 2020, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics.
...
In other countries, such as Germany, the shortage is particularly acute, and the immigration of health care workers from poorer economies even outside of Europe is becoming part of the solution.
"We expect a tremendous nursing shortage of about 500,000 people by 2030," said Professor Stefan Goerres, managing director of the Institute for Public Health and Health Care Research at the University of Bremen. "Even if the profession were more attractive, there just aren't enough young people due to declining birth rates."
2012
Quote:
Germany is facing a nursing shortage: 40,000 specialists are urgently needed now, and that figure is expected to jump to 110,000 in the foreseeable future. To make up the shortfall, Germany is looking to China.
Quote:
To address its shortage of nurses, especially in geriatric care, Germany has announced it will hire 200,000 Filipino nurses in the next four years. A 2013 hiring agreement, the Triple Win Project, has already allowed nurses from the Philippines and three other countries to immigrate to Germany.

martyh 05-04-2017 19:59
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35893464)
OECD report from 2005.

2013
2012
We know there are nurse shortages all over Europe nobody is disputing that ,the reason why Germany has such a chronic problem is because they will not recruit from overseas whereas we will so our shortage is not as bad as Germany's.

nomadking 05-04-2017 20:11
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35893466)
We know there are nurse shortages all over Europe nobody is disputing that ,the reason why Germany has such a chronic problem is because they will not recruit from overseas whereas we will so our shortage is not as bad as Germany's.
So what is responsible for the US nursing shortage? Whatever way you look at it, there is a WORLDWIDE shortage and so it as NOTHING to do with Brexit.

Gavin78 05-04-2017 20:13
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35893466)
We know there are nurse shortages all over Europe nobody is disputing that ,the reason why Germany has such a chronic problem is because they will not recruit from overseas whereas we will so our shortage is not as bad as Germany's.
If you work in the NHS like me you'll also notice that by taking these in from overseas the language barrier is out of this world making the job to work with them 10x harder

martyh 05-04-2017 20:43
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35893470)
So what is responsible for the US nursing shortage? Whatever way you look at it, there is a WORLDWIDE shortage and so it as NOTHING to do with Brexit.
never said it did i just questioned your assessment of why Germany has problems with staffing it's own health service



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin78 (Post 35893471)
If you work in the NHS like me you'll also notice that by taking these in from overseas the language barrier is out of this world making the job to work with them 10x harder
I don't doubt it ,maybe we would be better able to recruit nurses if we didn't make them all have degrees

nomadking 05-04-2017 20:47
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35893480)
never said it did i just questioned your assessment of why Germany has problems with staffing it's own health service

I don't doubt it ,maybe we would be better able to recruit nurses if we didn't make them all have degrees
Not my assessment, but multiple assessments, and facts, eg ageing population, less people taking up nursing.

martyh 05-04-2017 21:01
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35893482)
Not my assessment, but multiple assessments, and facts, eg ageing population, less people taking up nursing.
And German health care providers unwillingness to recruit from abroad

1andrew1 05-04-2017 22:10
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35893480)
I don't doubt it ,maybe we would be better able to recruit nurses if we didn't make them all have degrees
True, and making them pay for those degrees now is self-defeating.

Mr K 05-04-2017 22:20
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35893503)
True, and making them pay for those degrees now is self-defeating.
They do need training as Staff Nurses are now doing jobs that Drs used to do. However getting rid of bursaries and making them take out loans, along with pay which is poor compared to other graduates is ludicrous. No wonder courses are empty. In the meantime we need immigration because we haven't trained, incentivised and given enough respect to a taken for granted profession.

1andrew1 05-04-2017 22:22
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35893343)
Wake me up when the FT has a pro Brexit story.... or the Express has a pro Remain story.

All these publications have an agenda, and choose stories to propagate that agenda.
None of this means that the story in the FT is incorrect. It is accurate, It may have an agenda but it remains an authoritative source.
Alas, the same can't be said of The Daily Express, a paper I used to love once for its Rupert the Bear cartoon. That seems to be more accurate than its Brexit scare stories these days!
http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/daily-...ace-of-a-week/
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entr...b0f838c62e298b
http://awards.pressgazette.co.uk/201...es-under-ipso/

nomadking 05-04-2017 23:05
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35893486)
And German health care providers unwillingness to recruit from abroad
The shortage of German nurses is still there.

pip08456 05-04-2017 23:52
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35893505)
They do need training as Staff Nurses are now doing jobs that Drs used to do. However getting rid of bursaries and making them take out loans, along with pay which is poor compared to other graduates is ludicrous. No wonder courses are empty. In the meantime we need immigration because we haven't trained, incentivised and given enough respect to a taken for granted profession.
For once I agree with you in that getting rid of bursaries was ludicrous.

TBH I don't know the structure of the nursing profession now but when I was in the NHS I was a Cadet Nuse ( non-existant now) at 16. The next step was Student Nurse which was "In House" training with the option to go SEN (2yr course) or RCN (3yr course).

Only an RCN could be a Staff Nurse and courses and employment were run along the same lines as apprentiships at the time meaning students spent a lot of time on the ward learming "hands on" from the Staff Nurses on the wards.

Times have changed though, you can shout "we need to train more nurses" sounds good but it's more than a job or a profession. It's a vocation.

Had I realised that at the time I may have become a full fledged nurse.

I will just add I was not in a General Hospital.

Damien 06-04-2017 08:29
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
I think for certain professions the government should, whilst you're employed by the public sector, pay the student loan repayments. So teachers, doctors, nurses, police officers, army etc whilst you're working for a state school or the NHS the money that comes out of your salary for student loans is paid by the govt instead.

mrmistoffelees 06-04-2017 11:26
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35893529)
I think for certain professions the government should, whilst you're employed by the public sector, pay the student loan repayments. So teachers, doctors, nurses, police officers, army etc whilst you're working for a state school or the NHS the money that comes out of your salary for student loans is paid by the govt instead.
Umm surely that should be pro rata against salary.

I have no issue with nurses etc. having their student loans repaid but a GP/Consultant on over 100k per year ? They can afford it.

pip08456 06-04-2017 11:31
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 35893540)
Umm surely that should be pro rata against salary.

I have no issue with nurses etc. having their student loans repaid but a GP/Consultant on over 100k per year ? They can afford it.
It could be done whereby after XXyrs of service the debt is cleared. If you leave the NHS before then a pro rata amount will have to be repaid.

jonbxx 06-04-2017 12:11
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Well, as I predicted, the European Medicines Agency is likely to leave London - http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-bri...-idUKKBN1771XM

That's 900 highly skilled specialised jobs that will either be lost or leaving the UK

papa smurf 06-04-2017 12:26
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35893544)
Well, as I predicted, the European Medicines Agency is likely to leave London - http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-bri...-idUKKBN1771XM

That's 900 highly skilled specialised jobs that will either be lost or leaving the UK
so does that mean we have to set up our own agency

Pierre 06-04-2017 12:41
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 35893544)
Well, as I predicted, the European Medicines Agency is likely to leave London - http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-bri...-idUKKBN1771XM

That's 900 highly skilled specialised jobs that will either be lost or leaving the UK
It was an EU body, so that was pretty much inevitable.

1andrew1 06-04-2017 12:42
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 35893546)
so does that mean we have to set up our own agency
We already have one. The article explains that the UK's Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency takes the lead in assessing around a fifth of all EMA drug applications. The EU 27 contribute 80% of the workload so the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency is currently a great benefactor from the set-up.

Damien 06-04-2017 12:50
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
We might continue to subscribe to some of these bodies anyway. I read the other day there are literally hundreds of various organisations of these kinds and the govt doesn't have the appetite to set up British versions for all of them. So a piecemeal approach would take it's place where we would set up new ones if there needs to be different regulation for some reason.

Gavin78 06-04-2017 13:39
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35893505)
They do need training as Staff Nurses are now doing jobs that Drs used to do. However getting rid of bursaries and making them take out loans, along with pay which is poor compared to other graduates is ludicrous. No wonder courses are empty. In the meantime we need immigration because we haven't trained, incentivised and given enough respect to a taken for granted profession.
I'll tell you the problem as well, Students do placements as you may well know. but they often send them to specialist wards like mine which is Renal all they can do is stand and watch other than bringing the patient in a wheel chair, getting them on the bed and taking blood pressures.

They cant do much else other than watch and learn what we tell them but it's at least 6 -12 months before perm staff become competent enough in the job so when the students leave the ward which could be anything from a 1 day to 3 week placement they often give us bad feed back because they can't do anything.

Also drug calculations have changed and nurses are doing a lot more. our unit is nurse-led we don't have any doctors but care for 70 patients a day over a 7 day period which is why they have started introducing degree level because as you say they do a lot more now some jobs are what DR's used to do that are now nurses jobs

1andrew1 06-04-2017 13:45
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35893550)
We might continue to subscribe to some of these bodies anyway. I read the other day there are literally hundreds of various organisations of these kinds and the govt doesn't have the appetite to set up British versions for all of them. So a piecemeal approach would take it's place where we would set up new ones if there needs to be different regulation for some reason.
Yes. Some won't like the fact that thisimplies ECJ oversight.

1andrew1 06-04-2017 15:47
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Ryanair ups the Brexit ante and says it 'will have to suspend UK flights' without early Brexit aviation deal. A real threat or just a publicity ploy?
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/...ocid=ACERDHP15

Mick 06-04-2017 15:55
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35893566)
Ryanair ups the Brexit ante and says it 'will have to suspend UK flights' without early Brexit aviation deal. A real threat or just a publicity ploy?
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/...ocid=ACERDHP15
When has RyanAir never taken advantage of free publicity?

Never used them and never will. No loss in my eyes.

Brexit is happening, sooner these Remoaner attitude business CEO's realise this instead of trying to hold the government to ransom, the better.

denphone 06-04-2017 15:55
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
A publicity ploy as O'Leary likes to make big headlines a lot and hear his own big voice.

papa smurf 06-04-2017 16:13
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35893566)
Ryanair ups the Brexit ante and says it 'will have to suspend UK flights' without early Brexit aviation deal. A real threat or just a publicity ploy?
http://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/...ocid=ACERDHP15
bottom of the barrel airline owner blowing off steam ,clear off i say .

Mick 06-04-2017 16:14
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35893387)
Well done Nigel; we still need you keeping a close eye on things.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFAG-OVIlxE
Don't always agree with everything Farage says but someone needs to stand up to these set of EU Pricks.

TheDaddy 06-04-2017 16:19
Re: Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35893387)
Well done Nigel; we still need you keeping a close eye on things.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFAG-OVIlxE
Was listening to Nige on his radio show the other day on his birthday, quite liked most of what he had to say that day including asking the EU straight if they want a deal because it'd be better to walk away now than mess about for years banging our heads against a wall.


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