Re: Riots
 

Wonder if this will have an impact on the Mayoral Elections next year. Ken Livingston might retake the position of mayor just prior to the Olympics...

Re: Riots
 

has this man got the right idea ? are we at the stage where American style policing is needed ?

Re: Riots
 

Amazing how different media report things from the same person, isn't it?

The Torygraph reports the "fear the police" and "serious punishment" parts, whilst the BBC gives both sides of his statement.

From the BBC I agree with the points he has made in both interviews.

Re: Riots
 

yes he seems to be talking a lot of sense and cameron would do well to take on board some of his ideas .This is what i touched on in my previous post about trying new ideas and different thinking instead of trying to buy our way out of a problem .Sure some money will be needed but surely after the billions that have been thrown at inner city regeneration projects the basic building blocks are there ,using the recourses that are inplace correctly and efficiently is more important than finding new money and involving the communities more instead of faceless suits making decisions about where money is to be spent .Inner city regeneration isn't just about new housing or building retail parks ,yes they are important but so are youth clubs and sports centers

Re: Riots
 

All this is ok for the criminality side of it all, but what about the long term problem. is the government going to 'help' or are we just going to regard all youths as criminals now?

What does everyone think about the points made on the debate last night?

such as they're bombarded with adverts and such for this and that which they'll never be able to afford.
they feel like nobody listens or cares about them and their future.
There were jobs promised for those in the area of the olympics which was 'a lie'

I actually agreed with some of the points being made by the black gang youth worker. and the point made about there were only 4 channels when someone grew up. he wasn't bombarded with you can have this and that if you had money.
the only thing I saw growing up that was wealth was a car and a house.

what does everyone think about the example where stealing water worth £3 and getting I think 6 or 9 months prison. and an MP stealing £8,000 and saying sorry?
and the bankers losing the country millions and being paid bonuses for it?

is this it now. are we going to clamp down hard on the youth of today, or are we going to do something to help them?
if the answer comes down to just go out and get a job, then I don't think we're going to get anywhere really.

Re: Riots
 

Someone stop the press. An eminently sensible post by Gary! (has his account been hacked?)

Re: Riots
 

Update from HM Gov:

Updated on the e-Petition site.


Suppose that's a start.

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I'm as shocked as what you are for what he's wrote while I was on the bog :)

Re: Riots
 

I think the government has had a bit of a shock to be honest .They will have to realise that just throwing these people in jail will not cure the underlying problems ,yes ,punishment for crimes committed is important and necessary but tackling the reasons why people do these things is just as important if not more


acepting that you need to work to buy nice things like expensive phones tellys and x box's is part of how you are raised not a thing the government should be made responsible for


as above ,they need educating to realise that stealing is not the way to get nice gets things

the sentence is a bit ott when you compare it to muggers and burglars,but the authorities are using them as a example and rightly so imo .The problem is though that young people getting harsh sentencing will see the soft punishment dished out to mp's caught fiddling and defrauding as "one rule for them and one rule for us" so that needs adressing as part of the cure

Hopefully not ,clamp down certainly when crimes are commited ,by all sections of society not just the disadvantaged ,but we do need to give them a way out of poverty and a life on the dole ,but they need to help themselves as well they cannot just rely on the government to keep giving them free money .
The government have a duty to create the circumstances where jobs and a better lifestyle will be created the youth have to want to take those chances offered and better themselves .

---------- Post added at 12:11 ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 ----------

I know ,i was surprised and impressed :D

gold star to Gary

Re: Riots
 

How many of those that initiated the rioting(as opposed to those that simply joined in) are actually employable in the first place? You have to get rid of the notion that having something is a divine right, rather than something that is to be worked for.

Re: Riots
 

And a lot of these people think they have a divine right to everything but l was always brought up to respect people,think of others, work hard and enjoy life when you have the time.

Re: Riots
 

By far the best article I have read on the riots yet

David Cameron, Ed Miliband and the entire British political class came together yesterday to denounce the rioters. They were of course right to say that the actions of these looters, arsonists and muggers were abhorrent and criminal, and that the police should be given more support. But there was also something very phony and hypocritical about all the shock and outrage expressed in parliament. MPs spoke about the week’s dreadful events as if they were nothing to do with them.

I cannot accept that this is the case. Indeed, I believe that the criminality in our streets cannot be dissociated from the moral disintegration in the highest ranks of modern British society. The last two decades have seen a terrifying decline in standards among the British governing elite. It has become acceptable for our politicians to lie and to cheat. An almost universal culture of selfishness and greed has grown up.


Yesterday, the veteran Labour MP Gerald Kaufman asked the Prime Minister to consider how these rioters can be “reclaimed” by society. Yes, this is indeed the same Gerald Kaufman who submitted a claim for three months’ expenses totalling £14,301.60, which included £8,865 for a Bang & Olufsen television.

Or take the Salford MP Hazel Blears, who has been loudly calling for draconian action against the looters. I find it very hard to make any kind of ethical distinction between Blears’s expense cheating and tax avoidance, and the straight robbery carried out by the looters.

The Prime Minister showed no sign that he understood that something stank about yesterday’s Commons debate. He spoke of morality, but only as something which applies to the very poor: “We will restore a stronger sense of morality and responsibility – in every town, in every street and in every estate.” He appeared not to grasp that this should apply to the rich and powerful as well.

The tragic truth is that Mr Cameron is himself guilty of failing this test. It is scarcely six weeks since he jauntily turned up at the News International summer party, even though the media group was at the time subject to not one but two police investigations. Even more notoriously, he awarded a senior Downing Street job to the former News of the World editor Andy Coulson, even though he knew at the time that Coulson had resigned after criminal acts were committed under his editorship. The Prime Minister excused his wretched judgment by proclaiming that “everybody deserves a second chance”. It was very telling yesterday that he did not talk of second chances as he pledged exemplary punishment for the rioters and looters.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/pe...as-the-bottom/

Re: Riots
 

l agree totally with what you are saying because if people at the top set a good example then they are good role models for others to copy be the role models politician's, sportsman, pop singers or any other profession.

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yes an excellant article,if the government are going to bring back morals and discipline (and i agree they should)then their own house needs setting in order first the younger generation are very quick at picking up hypocrisy

Re: Riots
 

The sort of people that started the rioting were those kind of people long before anything like that happened or came to light.:rolleyes:

Re: Riots
 

politicians have been fiddling and abusing the system for their own gain long before the riots happened :rolleyes:

they are as bad as each other .The point being is what right do the government ministers who have been fiddling expenses and flipping houses have to preach morality to anybody

Re: Riots
 

I was watching ITV news this evening, And would you believe it, the coalition are still going ahead with further police cuts.

During the riots, the police were so short of staff, they were using officers from Kent, Surrey.

And why is he going to the USA to get advice on riots in USA, not being funny gangs in the USA are much worse than in England and police officers carry guns to protect themself, what do PCs have in this country, a baton, cs spray and cuffs,

Cameron can get help and advice in this country on riots, he doesn't need Americaan crappy advice.:mad:

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nothing wrong in seeking outside help Arthur especially if the help has more experience and Bill Bratton has plenty of that

Re: Riots
 

Aww, bless... Asyraf Haziq is the guy who got mugged during the riots. You know, that video that was posted 5 or more time. He's a Malayasian student who's been in the UK for one month. He was cycling along with a mate, when he encountered a group of youths. One of them punched him, breaking his jaw, then they stole his bike, and we've all seen what happens afterwards.

Also: Brits at their best.

More than £22k raised to do 'something nice for ashraf' :)

I'm sure that'll be sufficient to get his parents over.

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"American crappy advice"? Blatant racism aside, this guy has apparently reduced crime in some of the toughest cities in the world. Also, a lot of the UK gangs do model themselves on the US gangs, so isn't it a good thing that someone who has experience of dealing with gangs is advising the government?

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When was(and who) introduced the more fluid definition of first and second homes that allowed 'flipping'. The expenses scandal is relatively recent, so how does that relate to decades of behaviour?:rolleyes:

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First eviction for rioting !

http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16049238

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I fail to see how making someone homeless helps, especially when it includes other people in the family.

---------- Post added at 23:27 ---------- Previous post was at 23:26 ----------

It relates because they are both examples of a lack of morality and a sense on entitlement was the point.

Re: Riots
 

and you can go back further ,decades even to find more examples of government corruption or excess .Like i said before if the government is going to preach about morals to anyone they have to make sure they are in a position to do so because if they aren't then no-one is going to listen .Yes the rioters did wrong and should be punished but they aren't going to listen to a politician caught fiddling expenses

Re: Riots
 

And the people who started the rioting knew about these events is past decades?:rolleyes: They are not going to listen to anybody no matter what.

Re: Riots
 

Almost as amazing the father of one of the men in Birmingham taking to the streets each night to defuse the situation and get the other Muslims/Asians in the community not to march or protest against the black community. Such an impressive character.

---------- Post added at 23:40 ---------- Previous post was at 23:38 ----------

No one is saying that these rioters are using the expenses row as an excuse. Read the article, it was that the same culture that existed among the rioters also exist in the expenses scandals and the rich moving to tax havens. The prioritisation of one's greed at the expense of society.

Re: Riots
 

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how this is good news? It may appeal to your feeling that vengeance is required, but what does it actually achieve?

Re: Riots
 

Excuse me where have i said its good news, All i did was post what has just been reported. Instead you do a knee jerk reaction aimed at what you ASSUMED was my reason for posting it. I had noticed that no one on here had picked up on it so i posted it.

Re: Riots
 

Fair enough. You never said it was a good thing. For some reason, I took the exclamation mark as meaning you approved.

What do you think about this eviction then? Is it right or wrong (or somewhere in the middle)?

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I personally feel its wrong, why punish the mother for what the son did and additional what happens if the mother is disabled or out of work ???

He did the deed he should be the one punished

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Any actions taken to increase the poverty of those involved will encourage further crime.

Impoverishing those simply associated with those involved in the rioting is even more destructive, especially if it's done to the point of destitution.

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Absolutely..

Not only that, he's 18 and therefore an adult, so how exactly can she be held responsible for his actions?

I am of course assuming the flat is solely in his mothers name, and that the official age one becomes an adult in this country is still 18..

This stinks :td:

Re: Riots
 

some will, some won't .I'm not denying that there are *******s ,there will always be *******s .The point i and others are making is that it is a bit rich when mp's convicted of fraud or stealing from the tax payer are preaching to these people about law and order .Would you listen to David Chaytor ,Elliot Morley,Jim Devine if they started preaching on about law and order .

---------- Post added at 08:20 ---------- Previous post was at 08:10 ----------

I agree with the above .We do not know if the Mother/parents have been trying to keep their children on the straight and narrow .It may prove to be otherwise of course, the family may be the bigget load of **** bags out there ,but Cameron needs to be carefull about backing this kind of kneejerk reaction as it could bite him right up the jacksy .Things need to be thought through properly and calmly ,if new powers are going to be introduced then they have to be fair and workable not just lip service to the general public and media

Re: Riots
 

And thats is the problem as there are too many politicians who pander to politically aligned newspapers and to certain sections of the public without properly thinking through the next move

Re: Riots
 

Its been happening for years. Just read here to see in what year which party was happy to have one of the Murdoch papers support it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sun...ted_Kingdom%29

So as you can see they all wanted the support of the numpty Murdoch.

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Yes its a very sad state of affairs when politicians of all parties cow-tow to certain powerful individuals or media outlets.

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:clap:

Re: Riots
 

The government have been disappointedly knee-jerk in their reaction. Talking of evictions and powers to suspend social networking. I hope they do examine the reasons why these people came to be like this and leaving the justice to the courts and police who seem to be doing a good job.

Re: Riots
 

I wonder if these evictions and disproportionate sentencing is a one off knee jerk reaction, or has the law been re-written now?

I wonder if a person and his whole non involved family would be deported with no appeal process.
I wonder if we are going to be scratching our heads and wondering why soon?

I wonder if Dave has changed his mind about giving a hoodie a hug now?

---------- Post added at 09:36 ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 ----------

It would be funny if the first bit of advice from the American is don't just go at them with guns blazing. don't give them a reason to think that it's you against them. don't punish their whole family for the wrongs of a family member.
show that as well as being tough you are willing to listen to their concerns.

Dave will say "oh crumbs, I've just alienated a lot of them by making them all homeless"

Re: Riots
 

I think that is exactly whats going to happen and exactly what should happen

Re: Riots
 

Yes when they talk of suspending the social networking sites l find that rather ominous in a freedom of speech democracy because if we do that then we are adopting some of China's tactics and do we really want that in our country.

Re: Riots
 

It's not something i would be worried about .I did raise the possibility of doing this in this thread during the riots .The legality is questionable as is the effectiveness .The reason countries like china do it are poles apart compared to why we would do it .we would do it to stop potential rioters contacting others and arranging further disturbances ,given that there are other avenues that the rioters could use it would therefore be limited in it's effectiveness .China do it to stop people speaking out against the government and getting evidence of things like human rights breaches out into the rest of the world

Re: Riots
 

:tu:

Interesting article in the Guardian

Strange though. As I recall, it was Clegg who first floated the idea of evicting looters. Also:

Seems eminently sensible to me. Do we really want to punish council house dwellers twice compared to those living in private housing? Just because we can?

And the icing on the cake, found through the comments on that article. Five months in prison for wearing stolen shorts.

Really. Five months in prison? Over a pair of shorts stolen by someone else? Now there's a cost-effective way of drilling some sense into people.

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I think the 'zero-tolerance' on street crime is a good idea. It worked in New York. The whole 'broken window' theory. However zero tolerance doesn't mean sentences that are out of proportion, evicting people, or the absurd 5 month sentence for accepting goods stolen by someone else?

Problem for the government is they want to appear tough but the only immediate thing they can do is nonsense like the evictions. The rest of it takes time to put into practise.

Re: Riots
 

compare the seriousness of her crime to this one .This upstanding member of the community kicked punched and glassed a 17 yr old leaving him with a brain hemorrhage ,sentence = 1yr suspended for 2 yrs .This case was heard in manchester crown ct on monday last, i presume the same court that sent the women straight to jail for wearing a pair of stolen shorts

Re: Riots
 

It's easy enough to make almost anything sound absurd if you wilfully ignore the context. :shrug:

Re: Riots
 

She is not being evicted simply because he is her son, but because he is living with her. If somebody has people living with them and those people misbehave one way or another(eg noise), are you saying that nothing can and should be done because they aren't the official tenants.

Re: Riots
 

So if you share your home with someone who has broken the law, you both deserve to be evicted?

Re: Riots
 

Well the answer to that is no because you have not broken the law even though your other tenant has.

Re: Riots
 

I think five months prison is absurd even in context. She clearly knew they were stolen goods, didn't care, and took advantage of the spoils. However five months in prison seems excessive to me.

Re: Riots
 

She won't be inside for 5 months. In all likelihood she will be inside for about 8-9 weeks, then in the care of the probation service, possibly with a tag, for the rest of the time.

That said, I disagree that the sentence is absurd in the context of a riot. Wide-scale disregard for the norms of behaviour in our society that guarantee people can live and work without fear of assault on their person or property is exponentially worse than the activities of individual random teenagers shoplifting for the lulz.

The rioters crossed a big fat red line and the way the courts are giving prominence to the seriousness of the event, rather than the previous good character of some of the participants, is entirely correct IMO. There simply has to be zero tolerance of this sort of behaviour. It cannot become as normal as a drunken fight outside the nightclub on a Friday night.

Re: Riots
 

You'd change your mind on this, if they were your neighbours and causing mayhem/noise in your vicinity.

Re: Riots
 

Part of the problem as i see it though is that a drunken fight outside a nightclub to use your example has become the norm and are being punished far less severely as my previous link shows .What needs to happen is that consistency of sentencing across the board needs to be looked at not just during times of social unrest because being treated leniently in the past has led to the disrespect and disregard of law and order that we saw in the riots

Re: Riots
 

They are not being evicted for making noise inside their home. They are being evicted because on of the members of the household has committed a crime. That is quite different. It doesn't affect their neighbours directly.

Re: Riots
 

I'll quote it all and say, you'd think they'd have laws in place ready for such an event instead of panicking and just coming up with severe punishments that are not already in the book.

maybe Britain really didn't think this kind of thing was a possibility. and we're that taken back by it that we are reacting accordingly.

Re: Riots
 

I agree that the surrounding context should increase the sentences as a whole. I have been pleased with the majority of sentences being handed out to the looters and especially the rioters. Everyone involved with the riots, the violence, and the provocation should see the inside of a prison cell.

However accepting goods which you known to have been stolen by someone else should warrant a fine, a criminal record and community service IMO. I think that is sufficient for the nature of the crime.

Re: Riots
 

She owes rent arrears of over £1800 as well. I feel sorry for his 6 year old sister. she probably did all she could short of locking him in his bedroom till it all died down.

Re: Riots
 

And l will second that.

Re: Riots
 

Those laws already exist and are being used by the courts to sentence the rioters and the looters. The judges aren't making this up as they go along - they're not allowed to. But when sentencing, the law gives them a maximum sentence for the crime, and sometimes a minimum, and they pick what they believe to be appropriate from within that range.

Re: Riots
 

And after all the sentencing is done. we'll go back to the lenient sentencing for loss of life, ABH and GBH.

and then as long as it doesn't affect us directly, then we won't be too bothered. but if it does affect us directly we'll say 3 months for that and he got 9 for a £3 bottle of water?

I wonder if anyone's considered adding a month or two on the sentencing for making Britain look a joke to the rest of the world, and/or for making Dave look a bigger door knob than he was already credited for? :)

Re: Riots
 

Hmmm. How about this context then:

Yes, wearing a pair of shorts stolen in a riot (without actually taking part in the riot) seems on a par with fraudulently obtaining £14,000 while in high office.

Re: Riots
 

I would humbly submit that the system has dealt leniently with Illsley, rather than the other way round...

Re: Riots
 

You were complaining about the general principle of being evicted for the actions of somebody else. Are you now saying that it would be ok for noise or other nuisance related incidents. If so, how is the outcome any different?

The same goes for people complaining about people potentially being made homeless. They are being asked to move elsewhere, just in the same way that others have to move for one way or another(eg change of jobs, owner of rented accommodation selling up). The outcome of having to move is the same whatever the reason for it.

Re: Riots
 

it'll be interesting to note how many people get evicted for commiting crimes after all this has died down

Re: Riots
 

He's not the only one though is he?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...evine-released

What fantastic role models we have...
I'm with Damien on this. Actually taking part in the riots/looting warrants a jail term. Wearing a pair of shorts given to you by a looter is something else altogether. There are definitely agrevating circumstances which warrant some penalty, but I think jail is over the top. It's also not exactly a cheap option.

Re: Riots
 

They'd need permission from the courts. and the courts probably won't give it. it's bad enough trying to evict them for neighbour nuiscance and rent arrears as it is.

Re: Riots
 

no it isn't at all .Being evicted from a council house or association house can pretty much stop the person getting housed in anything other than private rented which isn't an option for most

Re: Riots
 

I would love to be a solicitor, as l would jump at the chance to defend any parent who gets evicted due to the children being found guilty of the the riots.

ITS the kids that have got into trouble, therefore the parent hasn't caused the problem, therefore hasn't broken any housing laws. And if they have been in that property for several years they become sitting tenant.

Where does it state in the council regulations, that by being found guilty of a crime, breaks council regulations - l think the councils that are thinking of doing this, and treading on dicey legal grounds.

If they children have committed the crime, then they should go to prison - simple. Not punish the parent.

What about the parent who walked the youngster to court by force - will she be evicted ?

Re: Riots
 

But in a lot of cases its the poor parenting that influences the child and then child knows nothing better then to do what their parents do so in my mind the parent is just as culpable as the child

Re: Riots
 

If the kids are under age then it is the parents responsibility arthur and the LA's will and do hold them accountable cases of eviction through unruly behaviour are rare but do happen

the tenancy agreement .This is the relavent section from my tenancy agreement


Criminal behaviour
m You must make sure that you and the people living in or visiting your home do not:
1 use the premises, or allow them to be used, for illegal
purposes or criminal activity (such as selling drugs); or
2 commit any serious offence (one that they could be
arrested for) in the property, estate or local area.
You are in danger of losing your home if you do not keep this responsibility.

link

Quote:

What about the parent who walked the youngster to court by force - will she be evicted ?

does she live in rented accomodation ? if she does then most likely no

Quote:

I would love to be a solicitor, as l would jump at the chance to defend any parent who gets evicted due to the children being found guilty of the the riots.

then you would fail miserably




---------- Post added at 19:57 ---------- Previous post was at 19:54 ----------

exactly ,although it as to be said that is not always the case their are some exceptions

Re: Riots
 

She/they won't be evicted. I can guarantee it.

Re: Riots
 

So will you make a small donation to a charity if your wrong :LOL:

Re: Riots
 

Yes, I'll even pop it in there myself on my way past :)

Re: Riots
 

all depends how much preasure the government put on LA's ,and if she is a tenant at all

Re: Riots
 

If she's not a tenant then all this was a waste of time.

what do you mean if she is a tenant at all?

Re: Riots
 

Nonsense. The parent may not have committed the actual crime, but if they have delinquent offspring they are most certainly at least a part of the problem.

Re: Riots
 

Exactly.:clap:

Re: Riots
 

i mean if she's a tenant ,as you say if she's a private tenant or owns her house then they can't evict her .
which raises the question ,if eviction from a council house is part of the punishment do rioters who are in private housing get extra time in jail or extra fines so the punishment is fair ?

Re: Riots
 

I think the council wanting her out of council property is a big clue.

No. leave it as it is so people can see that council tenants and on benefits can be punished more if you misbehave.

Re: Riots
 

[QUOTE=Gary L;35288157]I think the council wanting her out of council property is a big clue.
QUOTE]


missed that :dunce:

Re: Riots
 

:tu:

The fact that so many parents don't seem to know, care or control what their children are up to in the late evening and early hours tends to make me think they're a very big part of the problem. But then, in a country where you get rights without responsibilities, it's probably a bit much to expect people to exercise responsibility when it comes to having/bringing up children.

Re: Riots
 

Excellent. Throw money at a problem, that will work well. :rolleyes:

It promotes responsibility. If you know you, or a member of your family is committing criminal acts and as a result you will be forced to leave the area and your friends it would focus you on not committing crime.

The estate I worked on for a number of years did this for drug dealers and persistent anti-social tennents a few years back and it worked wonders.

It's happened before and it'll happen again. If this happens to a number of the rioters I can see this becoming more commonplace for other times.

http://www.renfrewshire.gov.uk/ilwwc...TenantsEvicted

Re: Riots
 

To be fair Derek. that's been happening all the time for the likes of drug dealers and such. and I agree with it because it affects the legal tenant themselves. either by being the said person or knowingly allowing the activities to be performed.

this is about a family that's at risk from their son doing something that's embarrassed the government and peed off the residents (I don't know how many miles away from the family home)

I think there's actually more to this particular case other than just the 'riot' from what I've read she's in rent arrears of over £1800. so I'd say she's probably already under a suspended order anyway.

Re: Riots
 

That's what we need to avoid,the last gov threw billions into inner city re developement so as i have said previously the basic building blocks should be there .

Agreed and it should always be an option for LA's .My concern is using this option as a first resort instead of a last resort .I am wondering if the family mentioned in this thread are being evicted because the government told them to do it or because they have past history with crime and disorder .

It's happened a lot on my estate ,a god send for peaceable tenants on the estate they are being evicted from but a pain in jacksy for the area they are being moved to .It will never be a cure for the problem of unruly tenants just a short term respite for decent tenants and to be used for political ends is wrong imo

Re: Riots
 

Whatever the causes of this, it seems to me that we've got a problem. Either the levels of deprivation that we've allowed to develop/exist, or a serious attitude problem in our youngsters. Whichever it is, there will be a price tag to the solution.

Drug dealers and persistent anti-social tennants. I have no problem with people who consistently cause problems in their neighbourhood being thrown out of their house. What appears to be the case here, is that people may get evicted for one offence, which may actually be their first one (for which they got caught). Also, to the extent that there may be parents that also get evicted, they may not have had much opportunity to correct their children's behaviour where this was a first offence.

Yes. Incessant behaviour, and breach of an ASBO that was handed out earlier. Plenty notice and opportunity for the people involved to change their ways. Which is not the case for what appears to be the plan with the rioters.

As I've said before: I think a jail term is appropriate for those involved in the rioting/looting. I also think there's a case for those convicted who live in council housing to be given notice that they are sailing close to the wind and risk being evicted should similar events occur in the future. What I don't think is appropriate is for councils to attempt to evict (basically) anyone that took part.

I have absolutely no problem with offenders being dealt with through the courts. What I do have a problem with is that people/politicians appear to be looking to score cheap points by being additionally tough on those they can be tough with. We have the courts to deal with offenders. Housing authorities are not there to deal out additional sentencing when public opinion feels it fit.

Re: Riots
 

I hear Dave and his men have declared war on youths and people on benefits.
something about losing benefits for the rioting even if you don't get a prison sentence. and any future claimants that commit a crime having their money affected.

hold on tight people. it's going to be mayhem on the streets soon.

Re: Riots
 

Surely they've 'declared war' (and I have serious doubt about whether anything will actually change BTW) on youths and people on benefits etc. who riot, loot, set fire to stuff. That's a bit different really and I reckon there are plenty of decent youths and people on benefits who despise what the low life rioters have done and won't shed many tears if indeed life is made tougher for them.

Re: Riots
 

So what about the **** that have declared war on decent hard working people then.

Re: Riots
 

I think Dave is just a bit annoyed with how this has only happened whilst he was running the country. I think it's a big embarrassment for him. and he wants to make dead sure that the world don't get the chance to laught at him again.

what he needs to do though is promise that a parent won't get arrested for doing what he blames them for. and that's not taking control and responsibility of their kids.

that's where it all went wrong. parents gave up through fear of arrest. that's why it got to this stage. society exploded in our faces.

go on, tell me that mass evictions and stopping of benefits is going to make this country a nice and safe place to live.
tell me that you will be sending your CV in when the government is recruiting for our very own Judge Dredd :)

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I would like to know what cameron is going to do that all the politicians over the last 40yrs didn't try. Stopping benefits will only affect those on benefits .Eviction will only affect those in council accomodation.He's bringing absent fathers into the equation which is absolute baloney .He seems to have the idea that disrespectful and out of control children only live on council estates

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My personnel feeling is that council who try this, will be in a tricky position.

I have been in council accommodation for the past 40 years, IF you are a sitting tenant, you cannot be evicted UNLESS, you are in arrears with rent, cause anti social behaviour on the estate where you live. Or harass your neighbours.

Council have to tread carefully on this, as you cannot tar the parent with the same brush as the child. If you did that, then every tenant in the UK would be evicted for something.

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Not when they have Daves approval and the backing of the not thinking straight public.

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That is a load of rubbish Arthur .

A )you are not a sitting tenant .A sitting tenant is someone who is living in a house when the owner is selling it ,i think you mean a secure tennant

B) you need to take a close look at your tenancy agreement ,the council can and will evict families if they commit crimes or a person in the household is committing crimes ,I have given you the relavent section of my agreement which will be the same as yours you should read it

c) parents are responsible for their children and the person who's name is on the rent card is wholly responsible for people or family members living in the house .Eviction doesn't usually happen for one off minor offences it usually happens after a number of incidents and complaints .I have known people convicted of drug offences lose their house immediately though

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Moral collapse? A very small percentage of the population loots,riots and arsons but 99% of the rest of the country behaves pretty morally but we are facing a moral collapse.:confused:

I'm sick of hyperbole..Especially from politicians.As the saying goes those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones..How many politicians were caught with their hands in the expenses cookie jar and how many are still trying it on?Before talking of moral collapse they need to lead by example..:rolleyes:

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And if we expect politicians to lead by example l am afraid we will be waiting a very long time and yes most people are very good people but of course this never gets mentioned in our headline grabbing press.

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AS is always the case the stupid minority give the vast majority a bad name nothing new there really. I am all for evicting anyone found guilty of looting if they are the tenant and having their benefits stopped as whilst it might not be perfect tbut hey have to be shown in as many ways as possible that we are not going to accept that sort of behaviour.

Evicting parents because little jimmy\gemma were out and about taking part in it all though is going a little far as far as i am concerned. For years now parents have had their hands tied more and more in terms of what they can do to keep their kids in line with so many external factors working against them and sorry to say in our town some of the "right on" teachers at the local secondary school has been a big part of the problem.

As a nation we took our eye off the ball in terms of kids we took away many of the sticks replacing them with carrots and rights and never countered it in any real way. We have a couple of generations of people in this country now who have grown up thinking they have a right to this and that and expecting it to be provided for them we have lost that spirit of working for what you want in many communities.

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http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/im...ons/icon14.gif
Totaly agree with all of your comments

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And what percentage of the total of MPs there are, are fraudsters and cheats?

If Dave comes out with any more rubbish I think I'm going to rebel myself :D

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Just playing devil's advocate and looking at parental responsibility -

What happens to parents who have totally lost control of their children? Should they be responsible too? Let as assume that they bought their kids up as best as they could in their circumstances, and the kid still turns out to be a 'wrong un'. What then?

Does the media, school, neighbourhood have a part to play in how a child is 'bought up'?

Cany you simply assume that it's the parents fault and then how much blame can you actual put on them?

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What we need is well thought out actions and not kneejerk political soundbites all the time and why cannot all parties get together on this.