Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

It's possible that Cyprus has been seen as a special case.
This 'wealth tax' will have to come from the capital that the banks have to set aside. Unless the banks have been sitting on excessive amounts of non-invested cash, then the cash taken will have to be replaced. Then there is what is going to happen on Tuesday, when large numbers of people withdraw their money.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Short memories some people have, last time I was in Cyprus everywhere you looked there was a sign for some road or building that said it had been funded by the EU.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

It has just been on Sky news that British soldiers based in Cyprus are at present going to be made to pay the 6.7% tax on any money they have in the bank as well. That includes there savings.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...s-savings.html

I so hate the EU and everything it stands for. In fact the EU is starting to look like Russia and its control freakery

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Cyprus bailout: Parliament postpones debate

Looks like they are getting worried about the reaction of the people

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21819990

http://news.sky.com/story/1065753/cy...s-raid-bailout


I can see this getting very ugly if they do raid bank accounts and remember this would include the accounts of British servicemen stationed in Cyprus on behalf of the UN. It would also mark the first time that the 17 eurozone countries and the IMF have raided peoples' savings and bank accounts to finance a bailout, something that i find disturbing

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The UK will now compensate British Citizens that lose out. Just breaking...

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

However why should our Government have to compensate with TAX payers money. That means we are giving money to Cyprus and the EU. The EU should not be robbing money from the accounts of British service men and there families in the first place. The EU are now setting a precedent by robbing directly from peoples bank accounts. The EU has NO RIGHT to be taking money from the bank accounts of British service men in Cyprus who are serving there as part of the UN and are NOT part of the EURO. British tax payers should not be funding this bail out indirectly in the way that this will happen. Any money refunded to servicemen or British ex pats by this Government will not be paid back to the British Government by the EU you can bet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21820237

I bet you now there will be bloodshed over this in Cyprus

What shocks me the most is that there are people on this forum who think we should be part of the Euro :shocked:

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21821155

The EU Aka Germany don't care if its legal or not, they will impose it anyway.

Note the EU are more worried if the German people are upset than the Cypriot people.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Well, considering it is mostly the Germans who are funding the bail-outs, that's probably quite a reasonable position to take...

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Amazing how something that was to supposed to unite Europe and Europeans does almost the exact opposite. Not being able to devalue their currencies is absolute poison for the Southern Euro countries... but a blessing for Germany,at least so far.

If this whole Euro thing was indeed the price for German Reunification then I guess Europe falls apart once more at the altar of Grossdeutschland. :erm:

The irony of course being that if you ask Germans and follow their news they'd be happy to have the Deutsche Mark back tomorrow.

Weird how it seems to almost always be German ambition that divides and destroys Europe,be it in peace or war.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Well yes, seeing as the German people are the ones paying for it.

Just wait until they find out that a system of fiscal transfers designed to stabilise the Euro will result in them paying for it permanently.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Yup,the Eurozone works very well as long as Germany pays for it! :p:

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The Germans tried to rule Europe by force and failed twice, now they intend to do it via a financial route and are at present winning hands down.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Yes, the treaty of Versailles worked very well, with Germany paying for it, for about 15 years, until the electorate got fed up and took an interest in the ravings of an Austrian war veteran.

---------- Post added at 14:07 ---------- Previous post was at 14:06 ----------

Ooh, can I call Godwin on myself? Have I crashed the thread? :D

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Eh,where's this coming from? The :p: was actually meant in jest,I think it's funny and simply a fact. How you go from that to Versaille and Hitler I don't know.

Lol,yes you have Godwin'd yourself! :p: ;)

---------- Post added at 14:12 ---------- Previous post was at 14:09 ----------

Well,winning unless they go bust in the process. How all this madness is supposed to end and where we go from there....

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The serious point behind the jest is, history tells us that wringing Germany until the pips squeak in order to redistribute her wealth around the continent - as happened in the form of war reparations agreed at Versailles in 1919 - works only up to a point. Sooner or later the German people realise what's going on and start looking for people who will promise to put a stop to it.

Cypriot savers are being screwed by the EU because German wealth is the only thing that makes any Euro-bail-out plan believable, therefore the plan has to be acceptable to German politicians who want, above everything else, to keep their electors from beginning to think the Euro is a bad idea.

However, IMO they needn't bother, sooner or later reality will dawn and the wheels will well and truly come off. If the Euro fails (and I think it will), it is at least as likely that it will be Germany that leaves, rather than one of the Club Med countries being kicked out.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Ah,ok thank you now I see your point and I agree with it.... haven't had my bacon and eggs yet! :D

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

They're trying to save a currency and economic union whose collapse would damage their economy. They're not interested in 'ruling Europe' and World War 2 was over 65 years ago.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

It must come before the next election. My fear is that if the idiots in Labour or the Libs get outright power they will sign us up for it immediately :rolleyes:

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

They can try, but at least Call Me Dave managed to get the referendum lock onto the statute book. That pretty much guarantees we will never join the Euro, non matter which Government we have.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

That won't happen. They know it will be electoral suicide and they didn't do it when the Euro was relatively crisis free so I fail to see under what circumstance they would change their mind now it's not stable.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

That is correct.

I personaly don't trust the Germans and i certainly don't like the way they have thrust themselves into the position they are in within the EU. It seems that nothing gets the ok unless they say so. ;)

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

That's because there quite engaged in it. We can't sit on the sidelines sneering at the whole thing and then complain when it moves on with issues without our input. We don't want anything to do with the Eurozone crisis either and since they're the ones stumping up the money then I can see why they want to attach conditions to it.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

But we are about to be involved in it financially.

Our Government is going to have to compensate our people in Cyprus who are there as part of the Military or diplomatic core. Who gave the EU the right to take money from the accounts of those NOT in the Euro ie soldiers posted to Cyprus and if TAX payers money is then to be used to compensate members of the military and diplomatic core will the EU pay back that money they have in effect stolen from peoples bank accounts.

I also feel that what they are about to do is wrong and is legally wrong as well.

Thankfully this just shows people what the EU are capable of and will i hope encourage more of them to vote ukip at the next election. :tu:

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The Cypriot Parliament will give them the right to take money from accounts if they pass the bill tomorrow. When you keep your money in another country those accounts are governed by the law of that country.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Well i just hope that the tax payers money that will be used to compensate our people for the money removed from there accounts is repaid to the British people. Lets face it our soldiers are there because the UN requires us to be there to stop Cyprus from fighting with Greece. The Cypriot government will not survive the subsequent trouble that this will start in there country. Blood will be shed mark my words because this will raise tensions. The Cypriots in the south will blame the Greeks in the North for bringing this down on them.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I would imagine with the prevalence of online banking, there will be quite a few new British bank accounts being opened by the forces personnel and their families, with inter-account transfers happening as we speak....

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

From what i have read they have placed a ban on all electronic transfers since Friday

http://news.sky.com/story/1065753/cy...s-raid-bailout

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Anyone who thought shoehorning so many different peoples and cultures into a Euro-jackboot would work must have been insane. If it continues to spread and intensify, the unrest we are seeing could, ironically, be the cause of major European conflict rather than the preventive.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I was going to change £400 in to Euro's at the end of the month for my holiday to Malta in June. I might hold off now because i think this issue with Cyprus might be the start of the end for the Euro or at least i hope it will be. :D

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Sadly, we are far from immune from the plight of the Eurozone. The fact that Sterling has recently lost so much ground to the Euro and the Dollar doesn't bode well for ordinary people but does at least offer the prospect of our exports becoming more competitive. Something which the Germans have benefited from greatly since they ditched the Deutschmark in favour of the Euro. Yes, like us, they've had to bail out the likes of Spain but they've also benefited from the relative weakness of the Euro.

---------- Post added at 18:33 ---------- Previous post was at 18:32 ----------

Given what's been happening in Cyprus, I'd withdraw your life savings and keep them under your bed.... ;)

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

i have a safe i can put the £400 in for now :LOL:

---------- Post added at 19:40 ---------- Previous post was at 18:37 ----------

There has been an update from Germany :rolleyes:

Oh really they did not expect a backlash from the average joe in Cyprus over the wholesale robbery of there bank accounts :rolleyes:

that's the feeling you get when you are bullied

I think any Germans on holiday in Cyprus at the moment should keep a low profile after Tuesday ;)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21824495

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

So who was it exactly who didn't think stealing people's savings so blatantly would create a backlash? Out of touch or what!!

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

That's the glorious EU for you :)

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Nah, give it to me and I'll give you -25% interest. Can't say fairer than that.... lol

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ebe_1363460771

gotta love this guy. he always talks sense.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Well his party will get my vote and i feel a lot of people's votes come the next election. ;)

And final update for the day :)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21824495

i think someone has finally woke up to a pot of coffee, however the fact he proposed it in the first place will be the end of his political career i feel. However Germany will not let him off that easily because what Germany wants Germany gets

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Germany are the ones that have to provide the money. If they don't want it they don't get it. Simple. Calm down with the Anti-German sentiment.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I don't like Germany its as simple as that and i certainly don't trust them.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Germany and France should both be put on the naughty step after the amount of interfering they have done in the eurozone the last couple of years. Worked out well for Sarkosy and Merkel in the end...or not.

There have been claims that half of the money in Cyprus banks belongs to Russian money launderers. This raises a few questions like if they knew this before, why are they only saying so now. Is it to make everyone feel ok that up to 10% is coming out of each persons bank account? Its criminals money so don't feel bad for them kind of thing?

If there is such a big percentage of a countries money being crime based, it sends the message that crime does indeed pay.

Most annoying this is the banks and bankers still getting away scott free from all this. The greedy banks still issuing £40 over-draught fee's if you go 50p overdrawn.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Personally i think this is the start and that Cyprus will reject the bailout and leave the Eurozone. I do hope so as it will be the start of the end for the Euro.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Indeed. Farage is quite a breath of fresh air, openly speaking about the corrupt EU where no one else would dare.

The sooner we get out the better. We need a new parliament, new ideas. Out with the stagnant "three" parties. Vote in someone who will actually have the population in mind and not his own ideals and self interests.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

They have interfered by demanding conditions to the money they're having to stump up to those countries. If you're bailing out another country at the German taxpayers expense then you're going to want to impose some conditions to ensure the money is not chucked down a bottomless pit. This would be expected by the German voters, who are paying for this, and to avoid having to bail them out again 6 months down the line.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Haven't the financial problems in Cyprus mainly come from their Banks effectively propping up the Greek Government ie buying Greek Government debt. If the Cypriot banks hadn't done that, then the Greek problems may had started years before they eventually did.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Being a member of the Eurozone does not help because lets face it that currency for most is toxic. Cyprus was a financially well run country when i last visited and they were using there own currency at that time, however since then they have joined the Euro and are now controlled by that currency. :(

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21825981

I hope Germany and France are happy with how they are treating the smaller countries :rolleyes:

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

link

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I said the other day that the EU is turning into a close relative of Soviet Russia in the old days. "Whats yours is mine but whats mine is my own". !

Have they started implementing the good old 5 year plan yet . :)

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance...-to-haunt-emu/

---------- Post added at 13:49 ---------- Previous post was at 13:45 ----------

Not France - not this time, anyway - they are in danger of needing a bail-out themselves at some point. The creditor states are the ones identified in my quote above.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

As I've said before, they're making up the rules as they go and in so doing, showing that we can rely on little or nothing they say. Engineering a crisis to get what they want? Certainly the way to overcome public opposition is to quash it using extraordinary powers in response to growing public disquiet and resentment across Europe.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

They're doing it because they have to give another country more money and they have to worry about the people who elect them. I don't think there is anything more sinister than that at play.

I agree it's a stupid move and hopefully it will be rejected and new terms come up. However I don't think it's especially sinister for the people who are stumping up the money to ask for concessions in return. It just seems like anti-German feeling needing an outlet. Germany can just tell these countries to get lost. They can't be that exposed to Cypriot debt.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The problem is not the fairness In principle of a quid quo pro imposed on the Cypriot State - it's the precise nature of it. They are proposing an arbitrary expropriation of the private wealth of citizens. As someone observed earlier, that is an utterly outrageous course of action anywhere except within a Communist State.

The first $100,000 of any private individual's bank savings are supposed to be absolutely guaranteed safe against the risk of a bank going bust, yet here the EU is proposing to take away up to 10% of those savings as part of the deal to prevent the bank going bust. It is perverse in the extreme.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

:tu:

What sort of precedent will this sort of thing set? Basically rules are only rules when the Eurocrats decide they are...

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I agree it's outrageous and frankly stupid. Yet I don't think it's any kind of machiavellian scheme from Germany to control Europe, I think it's just a misguided attempt to soften their own contributions and to be seen to be responsible to their own voters. Germany's interest in these matters is not some World War 2 revivalism to control Europe by money instead of force but an attempt to limit damage to their own economy. I doubt Germany would give much of a toss about Cyprus if it posed no danger to them. It's the portray of Germany that bothers me.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The precedent is that the private wealth of any individual within the European Union can be expropriated provided the European Union decides the situation justifies it.

This situation is grave in the extreme. No doubt most people will just shrug and accept it as the new normal and then get on with their lives. One day they will wake up and realise that the EU has become a monster that owns them and everything they call "theirs" - by then, of course, it will be too late.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

And when it passes the Cypriot Parliament. The Government of the member state still has to approve it. You may say that they are left with little choice but to accept, much like someone in debt would have to accept the unfair terms of a loan shark, but that's a situation they found themselves in. They're still free to face the consequences of running out of money however. What they cannot have is the bailout with no strings attached.

Hopefully people will see sense and they come back with a more rational set of conditions.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Who said anything about German revivalism? Not me. So far as Germany goes, this is Angela Merkel's strategy to avoid getting booted from office later this year. This is nothing to do with Germany wanting to take over Europe.

Standing behind the creditor states however is a Brussles-based policy elite that sees everything through the prism of The Project, the aggregation of power to the EU itself at the expense of all the member states. They will be absolutely rubbing their hands at this newfound ability to dip their hands into the private savings of private individuals within one member state.

Is it remotely coincidental that they are trying this on through what would appear to be the path of least resistance, a tiny island with a population of les than a million? Can you imagine if they had tried this on in Spain, or even in Ireland? Even Greece didn't get this treatment. No; they are happy to set the precedent in a place they know amounts to very little in the world.

The only possible saving grace here is that they may have over-reached themselves and misjudged the size of the backlash. We can hope.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I agree.

Yes. It's also because they don't have as much at risk as they do with Spain, Ireland or Greece. In the scheme of things Cyprus needs them more than they need Cyprus and this is reflected in their terms. They don't want to risk too much politically on a bailout whose failure would not led to the same consequences that the others would have caused. Also because it seems they basically think it's taking money from Russia.

I think they're probably locked in discussions to find an alternative now. Hopefully.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Chris is 100% right!

The Eurocrats will dress these things up in any way they can to try to assuage public anger but the result will be the same - creeping control in the singleminded pursuit of their agenda to create a single state in which what they say goes and rules are to be obeyed when it suits.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I am hoping that the President in Cyprus decides to grow a pair and say SOD IT lets pull out of the Euro and go without the bailout.

Somehow i don't think that will happen because the EU leadership don't want it to happen WHY. because If it happens the deck of cards will start to fall very quickly. :D

Infact the deck of cards may well and trully tumble

http://news.sky.com/story/1066004/cy...d-russia-offer


Let battle commence :)

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Yeah right! What makes me think that, if it goes through, it'll be a 'one off' whenever they need one...

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

This may be killed off as early as tonight and more sensible terms agreed by the looks of it.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

That is my fear, can you imagine if Labour had tried this near the end of there term when they had spent everything :mad:

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

It would still need to be passed by the nation state's Government. I can't think why they would allow such a prospect unless they were desperate. The EU certainly can't just take money whenever they want. Nations that allow this will find their financial services industry killed off pretty quickly after enacting such a policy after all.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

For now it would but how long before that 'right' of determination heads to Brussells like so many others if the Eurocrats decide that's what they want in order to keep their show on the road?

The trouble with moving goalposts is that sooner or later ordinary people start to realise that nothing is sacred anymore, nothing is guaranteed, nothing can be banked upon (pun intended) and then say no more! When that starts happening on a large scale are the Eurocrats going to accept it? The don't like 'No' votes do they? What were emergency, 'one off', measures can suddenly become tools of control used against those who've had enough of the EU and what it's become.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21832187

After this is over no matter what the EU leader sorry i mean German Spokesman say's i would not like to be a German on Holiday in Cyprus. :)

The more i read about this the more i am determined that if we ever get the chance of a yes no vote i will vote to leave the EU

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Yes, Cyprus should pay something themselves to the bailout. I can see why they are angry that Germany aren't just paying the whole thing themselves.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

seems to me that whatever happens Cyprus is screwed .The banks will be emptied because the general public don't trust them ,the Russian money launderers will remove their money because they are just greedy crooked sob's and won't want to pay 10% of their billions meaning the banks who lent 8x the Cypriot GDP at a time when the banks where supposed to be reigning in their lending and keeping capital in the bank are royally screwed and will probably fail anyway

---------- Post added at 17:01 ---------- Previous post was at 16:56 ----------

If someone has to pay then maybe the Russian oligarchs should contribute a lot more ,they have used Cyprus for years to hide their money ,that's why president Puttin is so upset.Reckon he's got a stash he's going to lose 10% on.

I wonder how many Cypriot MP's have moved money out of Cyprus into other banks in the last few weeks ?

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The MPs are probably surprised too. This doesn't seem to have been a well-thought out plan.

As for the Russians. I don't really know the extent to which their interests are linked up with Cyprus. I do think that the Cypriot people may want to find ways to express their rightful anger at this plan other than making anti-German slogans. If you were a voter in Germany and you were being asked to bailout another country that didn't live within it's means and then saw it's people slagging you off you might be a bit peeved.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Tomorrow will be the crunch day. Cypriots would have been expecting to be able to get at there money tomorrow but now they will find that the banks are shut till Thursday. I expect protests to develop into riots by tomorrow evening. The EU is going to get nothing but bad press over this.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

i think it is an absolute disgrace and a breach of trust in the highest order and it will have much wider implications .If the Cypriot people are expected to contribute to a bail out then raise taxes ,don't raid peoples savings .It should also be pointed out that the UK government is repaying any money taken belonging to British servicemen and government employees so it will still be costing us money .
Personally i think all EU citizens should be protesting about this because it will happen again if they are allowed to get away with it this time.
Maybe this is an experiment by the big EU players to see how much they can get away with ,using a small country of little consequence to begin with ,or is that just the conspiracy theorist in me ;)

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Money we should be demanding back from the thieving EU central bank.

Makes sense to me. :tu:

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

It'd be interesting to find out if there were any sudden and significant withdrawals made by the great and the good just before the announcement was made. That's the sort of thing a free press is handy for...

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I wondered about that earlier and i would be starting investigating the Cypriot government ministers who would have had advanced warning ,maybe Barclays or RBS have had a sudden rash of new accounts opened by unknown foreigners

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I wonder how many of those Cypriot government ministers will survive if this gets nasty ?

http://news.sky.com/story/1066463/sa...o-be-protected

I see the group of EU bullies has started to change there tone now, i wonder if its got anything to do with the fact they know there in the wrong and there is a chance that Cyprus will tell them to bugger off.
HOWEVER

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Good see they've stepped back from the insane option. Although the tax on higher earners might happen still.

It's not ideal but let's remember that they're the ones asking for a bailout. Cyprus can tell them to 'bugger off' but then they have to either find the money from elsewhere or deal with the consequences of not having the money. Also while anti-German feeling may be high it's not outrageous for them to expect the Cypriot Government to find some of the money themselves rather than getting it all from the German taxpayer and other European nations.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

This is very crazy situation and presedent. I am sure if cypriots thought if it went to help nation recover they maybe less against it. To me sounds like theft from bankers and germans. Unless reading it wrong and money going cypriot government. Basically if its going to germans, bankers its putting bailout onto savers.

To me its last dice throw of failure from IMF and Germans to force crazy austerity everywhere. No body saying we dont need to get finances under control it does. How much this down to bankers over leveraging fiat currency in the world. Surely fiscal system needs to be in place you cant just crash and burn everything. All I get the so called experts and everyone panicking. Level heads nead to be looking at the situation but all they doing is coming out all sorts crazy ideas. Sadly which just making things alot worse than need be.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Anti-German feeling being on the increase in Europe isn't exactly a recipe for the harmonious EU we've all been sold along the way is it. Rightly or wrongly, if the common and growing perception is that the Germans are forcing unacceptable levels of austerity on people in S. Europe, this cannot bode well for the future and I reckon this will not be forgotten in a hurry. Let's just hope the resentment we've seen in recent times doesn't continue to simmer away and result in conditions ripe for extremists of one sort or another to flourish. It's been happening in Greece and there's no sign of an end to the austerity at the root of it.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The attitude towards the Germans is really unfair however. A lot of people seem to be basing it on German's past history. If this is the case then Britain itself has a pretty mixed record when it comes to invading, dominating and oppressing the people of other countries.

What is happening is quite simple. A number of countries spent considerably outside what they could afford and they need a bailout because of the wider economic climate and problems specific to the Eurozone. Germany, whose own economy is threatened by these countries going under, are the largest contributors to giving these countries significant amounts of money. When they give these money they want assurances that it will be used to prevent the crisis and not to prop up a failing system for a few more months.

Yet the people protest against Germany for imposing those restrictions. The answer is simple, don't take their money. This is like you giving your neighbour money to keep their house and then them calling you everything under the sun because you won't let it be spent on another other than the mortgage.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

That's extremely simplistic.

Germany has enjoyed a massive competitive advantage since the foundation of the Euro because its exchange rate and its interest rates have been artificially weak. Wealth has flowed into Germany from the rest of Europe and some of the Southern economies have lost 20% of their competitiveness relative to Germany in that time.

It is the Euro system that has caused this and it is the pig-headed determination by the policy elites, including domestic politicians in Germany, that the Euro must be saved at all costs, that is forcing bail-outs and massive austerity on the failing economies of the Med.

The traditional solution in any one of these economies would have been to devalue the currency. Membership of the Euro means they cannot do that. So yes, it is true they should have acted more prudently with their finances, but then when a country's political tradition of generations has been for lax economic management, granting it sudden access to the low interest rates of the Eurozone was a bit like giving an alcoholic the keys to an off licence.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Yes in some ways it is, which is why I wrote "rightly or wrongly". History is littered with examples of extremists who've unfairly but successfully blamed others for all their ills.

Having said that Chris is right to point out that the German economy has done very nicely out of having a currency which is much lower than the DM would have been. I think it's fair to argue then that the Germans haven't been acting entirely selflessly in bailing out the lazy men of Europe. The constraints of the Euro have suited their economic needs very nicely thanks and at the expense of poorer countries.

In matters such as these we can argue about who's right and who's wrong but it's public perception which matters in the end and if enough people start blaming the Germans for all their ills and the German public for example demanding harsher measures in return for assistance we could all be in for big trouble.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Oh I don't think they acting selflessly. If their economy wasn't tied into the Eurozone they wouldn't have given a toss.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Well it's good we agree on that. ;)

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

And here lies the problem WHO is it that seems to have the most control over the Euro and the EU Germany !. If one country now has such a postion of power within the EU it worries me greatly.

If this goes ahead who in Cyprus would be stupid enough to hold anything over 20000 in a bank.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21842966

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I can see plenty of retirees and pensioners, for example, who're going to be mightily unhappy if their hard earned and already taxed savings are plundered in this manner.

They're calling this a one-off but does anyone really believe it would be?... :rolleyes:

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

The problem is precisely that, they have proposed something that ought to have been utterly unthinkable. The very fact that they thought of it means nobody can believe a promise they won't do it again. In fact the weasel words they have used in order to justify doing the exact opposite of the legal protection measures that private savers should have enjoyed, demonstrates that they *will* do it again, when they feel the need, while at the same time slightly adjusting a few of the technicalities in order to claim they're not.

George Orwell would turn in his grave.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Definitely NOT

---------- Post added at 12:28 ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 ----------

And people wonder why i don't like the EU and there methods.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I think large numbers of people across Europe are realising the EU isn't the gravy train they bought tickets for in return for some of their social, legal and economic freedoms. They've been sold a pup by their own governments and the Eurocrats and can now see the reality of what's been done by stealth and duplicity, by hook and by crook. Either the Eurocrats don't have a clue what they're doing or they've set out to mislead us all to get their way and will employ and/or exploit any means by which to do so. I know which I believe.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

But 'ordinary savers' can have more than 17k in the bank......:confused:

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Especially in pensions. :erm:

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

With all due respect to the "ordinary savers" of Cyprus, the problem here isn't the effect the measure would have on them, it's the very principle of expropriation from private bank accounts. So long as this plan goes ahead in any form whatsoever, a line will have been crossed.

Alastair Darling pointed out on Today this morning, it's not that this will cause bank runs across Europe here and now, but what about the next time Spain or Italy or Portugal seems to be heading for the rocks and speculation about a bail-out begins? The fact that this expropriation went ahead makes it perfectly logical in future for every saver to go and withdraw his funds just in case another cash grab is announced.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Indeed if the EU are allowed to do this then no savings account or bank account is safe from there attention

And in other news, this is the EU effect

http://news.sky.com/story/1066871/cy...british-troops


This is what you get for being part of the Eurozone. Thank god we are not part of this train wreck called the Euro

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Indeed. It's simply robbery.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

To be honest right now I hope Putin throws a hissy fit and cuts off Germany's gas supplies. The EU is a law unto itself at the moment. But the problem with being a bully is, sooner or later you'll meet someone bigger and nastier than you. No matter how serious the allegations, we are supposed to believe in the rule of law and claiming that a ton of money in Cypriot banks is hot, as justification for snatching it, is not good enough. As Head of State, Putin's responsibility is to stand up for the rights of his citizens, who have neither been indicted nor convicted of a crime.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

I hope they say NO, why

It will show other countries that you don't have to jump when Germany says jump. Germany are not to be trusted and have started to show there cards over this bullying of a small country. This has been building for a while and Germany has increased there demands on other countries bit by bit and at the same time they have increased there control over the EU .

*********EDIT********

It looks like the vote will be NO

*********EDIT********

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Meanwhile, in the Through the Looking Glass nightmare universe our Euro-Masters have created for us, the MoD has been forced to fly a million euros in cash out to Cyprus on a military transport to sub our service families while the banks remain shut.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21847013

Truly, you couldn't make this stuff up. Someone remind me what century we're in?

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Sirius if we were the ones that were bailing out other countries would you want the Government to seek to attach conditions or not? Germany would much rather not be doing this, their population is not that happy that they're seeing their money being used to bailout other countries.

This condition is universally agreed as stupid but the idea of Cyprus coming up with some, just some, not even half, of the money isn't. Nor is the idea that countries receiving bailouts need to curtail their spending.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

just wondered if this raid on tax haven. Awhile back was there talks in G20 on tax havens, this may been planned by G20.

Some those who used cyprus tax haven who going to lose out big.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...de-cyprus-home

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Then they should stop and let the Eurowreck die a quick death. Since the Euro was forced on countries it has lurched from one failure to and other. Germany WANT to be involved because the more they get involved the more power they can grab. I ask this question "WHY is it that Germany are the ones being blamed time after time over the Eurowreck" ??

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

This is something you have to explain further. It seems to be based entirely on the idea of Germany from WW2.

Some of it is because of what Chris mentioned as them doing well out of the Euro before the crisis hit. The other is because as one of the stronger economies in the Eurozone the cost of the bailout largely falls onto them and, since they're the ones stumping up the money they're putting conditions on those bailouts.

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

It has nothing to do with WW2 it has everything to do with how the Germans come over to others, Every time i have met them from when i was posted there to how you see them on TV to how you have to deal with them on holiday they must always be in charge, they must always be first and they don't care how they get to that point. I have said before i don't like them and i certainly will never trust them.

As for them doing well out of the Eurowreck well yes they are but look at the poor bloody infantry who they are walking all over to get there


On another note

How embarrassing for the EU that a country outside the Eurowreck has had to organise an air lift of money so its own people can buy food and essentials like Baby milk. :mad:

---------- Post added at 18:24 ---------- Previous post was at 17:36 ----------

Happy days David has told Goliath to sod off.

:cleader::cleader::cleader:

Its breaking news on Sky news at the moment

Landslide No vote

Mp on there now saying that they were being forced by the EU to confiscate peoples savings

Re: Eurozone will collapse...
 

Now watch as the EU tells little Cyprus to vote again, and give the correct answer this time ...