Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Perhaps what's needed is a place for people to protest. I'd suggest the West Ham ground - let's face it, it's a dump and there's not much else of any value going on there lately.... :D




ps and yes I am a Hammers fan! ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

:LOL:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Hey matey you lot aren't much better!!!!! ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

In Whitehall which I have stated a few times in this thread.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Well we all saw the end result.

Bear with me, i have a few pages to catch up on. I blame my rubbish present wrapping skillz....

Nope, I stand by my comment.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Sorry I've a whole site to monitor not just one thread..;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Just a quick question though, do you want demonstrations banned just in Whitehall, or everywhere in the country?*






*Don't get yer knickers in a knot, I'm teasing.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Just a question off the wall...

Are you in any way connected to these protests?

just a hunch

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Personally I don't want demonstrations banned, I just want to see the demonstrations allowed to occur without being hijacked by a 'rent a mob' intent on confrontation & violence.

If I was a student trying to make my voice heard regarding tuition fees, I would be appalled if the demonstration I attended, in good faith, was turned into a riot by people with a different agenda.

The diatribes regarding the Police in this thread indicate, in my opinion, just how far the issue of tuition fees was subjugated by a minority who had no interest, whatsoever, in that issue, but just saw another opportunity for civil unrest....

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

The answer was for others not just you in particular, more to make other people with an agenda aware.;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

:clap:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Well said

I do feel that students should not have to pay more for there tuition and that in this country we should be educating our young for free.

What i cannot stand is that a large amount of the students felt they had the right to riot on our street and attack the police and because of that they have lost any support thay would have had from me.

When you watch the large amount of news coverage there does seem to be a very large contigent of hooligans smashing up public property and attacking the police. People defend the students by saying it was a minority but hell look at the amount of hooligans you see attacking the police and is that in fact a small minority ???

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

gazfan, qft.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Excellent. So as well as everything else you are you are now an expert on the costs involved with converting specialist vehicles for use and putting modifications into them like rear cells, and secure internal storage.

If the Met are anything like other forces their big vans aren't replaced anything near as frequently as their pandas or traffic cars and whilst the TSG might have newer ones the old vans will sit in a pound for a while until they are needed for a large demonstration.

Oh and if it was planned to have students scrap it why was the kit inside not removed first?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Well said. :tu:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

how do you explain the police aware sticker on the vehicle this has caused many people to come to the conclusion that this rusty old bus was just a rusty old bus dragged out of a scrap yard .

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Do you mean the sort of "Police Aware" stickers that most police cars and vans carry around in case they have to put them on other cars that have been abandoned, and that the police have been informed/are aware of?

(btw, loved the emotive "rusty old bus" repetition - if you say it often enough, some people might believe it ;)).

btw, from the Epsom Guardian, 25th November

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

At a rough guess it could be:

• Placed there from a previous incident
• Taken from the glove box and placed there by a cop when it broke down
• Taken from the glove box and put on the van by a protestor for a laugh
• Put there by cops as part of a huge conspiracy designed make the students look bad although nothing would be written down or transmitted by radio in case the transcripts are released by a FOI request

Obviously the likelihood decreases as you go down the list.

If it was a knackered van do you think they would have repaired it just enough to be drivable just until it breaks down in the middle of the street?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It is pretty obvious that the protesters when ransacking the vehicle will have come across the sticker and then placed it prominently on the vehicle or a laugh, but to the paranoid few amongst us that obvious reason will not fit in with their finely honed plans about a conspiracy theory to make the rioters/protesters look bad.

By the way if you fail to accept the obvious solution can you find a picture of said vehicle prior to the event with the sticker on it, you will fail dismally.

Have you ever seen one of these stickers on a vehicle as everyone I have ever seen is either on the drivers side door window or in the middle of the windscreen, no one is going to put it on the roof above the glass.

They will do their level best to try and persuade us that the vehicle is a plant and that the sticker was already there.

What they should is after every has finished their minces pies and the turkey is cooked is to fashion all the foil into a the shape of a policeman's helmet and wear it until the next demonstration.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

i said that and was told i was being ridiculous


i said ,"put there from a previous accident" was told it was a ridiculous argument

i ridiculed this argument but was told it was the most likely explanation as "there was no reason for an old scrapper to be there"

apparently some posters on here think that is the only viable explanation

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

they do
er i mean they do ????;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I take the people who will not accept that the van was in normal use have never watched any of the Police shows on the television where the Police arrive in fairly new vehicles and when they call for a van it can be 5 or more years older than the panda cars, as Derek said above they cost a lot of money to be fitted out so they will hold onto vans a lot longer.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

That's right i have posted current prices for the equivalent sprinter ,i had a rough idea of how much these cost as i was thinking of buying a new one next year ,the one shown in the clip is a old style i.e about 5 years old at a guess but would have still cost about £30-35 grand with alterations and i may be wrong here but the police don't lease vehicles they buy them

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ragtag04/257872860/

Taken in 2006 showing an 'N' reg van still in active use and looking a bit shabby with traces of rust etc on it.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Going by the age of some of the vans I would say bought.

We have a lot of vans in Liverpool and they are of different ages and you can see some of the older vehicles that are kept in Walton Lane Police station specifically for football match days as it is the closest station to both grounds.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It also has to be remembered that that model of sprinter will rust to bits as soon as it leaves the factory ,they were not the best built van so rust spots on a sprinter does not nescessarily mean it is a old knacker we've got plenty at work tha are only 5 years old and look like they have come from a scrap yard

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

you mean shows where the police play nice in-front of the camera ,and follow procedure to the letter because they have millions of viewers .

no i don't watch that type of fiction - i watch midsummer murders - rosemary and time -Sherlock Holmes -poirot -does that help in any way ?;)

so if i use my powers of deduction gleaned from the shows i watch i conclude the Butler done it .

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Hang about where is the Police Aware sticker on the roof.https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2012/04/8.gif

Here is a picture of the actual sticker, can you see that it has not been filled in as these normally have the details of the vehicle that has been dumped, the date and the Policemans details who attached said sticker.

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/12/22.jpg

---------- Post added at 11:19 ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 ----------

Not really as their vehicles are usually older.;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

O come on Derick you expect the 2 Ronnie's to believe that without you producing evidence and answering the standard amount of additional extra questions. However as is the norm don't expect any answers back to your questions.

I have taken a leaf out of the flyboy school of debating and decided not to answer any of his question until he decides to start answering those put to him.

BTW where are the 2 Ronnie's

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

here

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

:LOL:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

So the police are smart enough to deploy a knackered old decoy van (filled with riot control equipment) to entrap the students/activists/rioters/protesters/anarchists/innocent passerbys (please select subset of your choice), but stupid enough to leave a "Police Aware" sticker on the van which shows it was previously an abandoned vehicle.......

Imagine the scene at the pre-deployment meeting, if you will......

Sergeant - "OK, we've found an old police van, which was left abandoned at the side of the road by Sutton police, we've filled it full of expensive riot control gear, and we've agreed where we going to leave it to make sure chummy wrecks it, ensuring a positive propaganda message for the Met"

PC with more than one GCSE - "Erm, Sarge - there's a big yellow sticker above the front window saying "Police Aware" - won't that give the game away that it's a set-up, and foil our cunning plan?".

Sergeant -"Absolutely right, Brains* - remind me to remove it before we abandon the vehicle".

PC "Brains" - "Erm, Sarge - wouldn't it be better to remove it now, when we have time, rather than in the middle of a huge crowd where people might notice/photograph/film us doing it, or even worse, where we might forget?"

Sergeant - "Well, La-de-da-deh PC Brains with more than one GCSE - what sort of moron would be stupid enough to set up an entrapment scenario that will be filmed by multiple TV crews (as well as anyone with a mobile phone) and leave a big sticker on the van?"

Amazing how the police are cunning/stupid, dependent on which scenario one wants supported at the time, isn't it?

*Brains - apparently, the de-facto nickname given to any constable who has more than one GCSE (or so we are led to believe......).

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

i wonder how many years that sticker has been on that van /or do the stickers come off the role pre aged with rough dirty edges perhaps as some kind of fashion statement .

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

The van had been vandalised for a couple of hours - I don't think they thought "must avoid the sticker", do you?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Shhhhhhhh!

You're giving the game away!

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

the sticker is old and weathered -did the students have Dr who and his TARDIS at their disposal to drag it through time , is it in the event horizon of a black hole ,does it have a flux capacitor under the bonnet
no i think its just a very old sticker - unless the students carefully aged and weathered the sticker as part of their rise to anarchy :shrug:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Obviously from the Mets stock of vans suitable for entrapment then. It's the only possible explanation.

One way to check, there is footage of the van driving down the street before it breaks down. I CBA looking for it but if someone wants to check that and see if the sticker is visible they can.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

as it happens so do i ,i also think the van was a reserve van kept in the local pound for when all other vans are in use because of a large gathering of unruly people ...oh say a student demo..:shrug:

(reminder....must stop inventing outlandish theories)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Two very valid points from that link..... But one of the commenters on another blog (who is a police van driver) stated that there is only one set of keys issued, and they would stay with the driver - if he was called away due to, say, a bit a fracas happening nearby, the keys go with him - not saying it's what happened, but perhaps it's a possibility.....

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

that vid doesn't work on my pc

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

That's the conspiracy trying to stop you finding out the truth.....;)


Mwah hah hah hah ha!!!!!!!!!:D

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

impossible mate my pc is covered in tin foil even the aliens can't get at it .

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

take note they didn't put the sticker on the van at the time of this vid because the window screen grill would have preventing them putting it where the pic shows it is

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

The conspiracy doesn't end with the police. It goes all the way up to the government! I mean they just built Millbank there where it could be ransacked and make the protests look bad.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Well, I do have something of a working knowledge. I have been in the motor trade for many years (including working for, amongst others, Renault, Citroen, Mercedes-Benz, Toyota and Ford dealerships), particularly in commercials and I have extensive experience in conversions and have supplied security companies with converted vehicles. That van would reached nothing more than a thousand pounds (at a stretch two thousand if had recently passed its eight week safety check) if it came up on the block, even if a buyer could be found for it.

The van had no number plates, had a "police aware" sticker on it and was covered in rust, looking at it, it is unlikely it would have passed its safety checks. Do the Met routinely drive around in vehicles with no number plates? That van would have been amortised a long time ago, therefore would not be worth anything at all to the Met.

I must admit I didn't see any "kit" still inside the vehicle, I will have to take your word for it that it was there. What kit, in particular, are you referring to?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It's almost like your saying whenever the police need a monumental presence in the City of London for protests involving tens of thousands of protesters where violence is expected that the police would source and re-use older vehicles that aren't in day-to-day operation to help meet the demand?

Come now, now you're just being silly.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Yes, totally unbelievable... :D

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

As long as it is driveable, it can be put anywhere they want it to be, but it can still be a scrapper. I have driven loads of vehicles to the auctions and scrap yards. But then.....

....if the thing had been there because it had broken down at an earlier point, it would have been repaired, wouldn't it.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

As already quoted by Hugh but I'll repeat it for a giggle.

There was also valid tax on the vehicle, they are hardly likely to find an old van, fill it with gear, tax it and then forget about the whacking great sticker on the front.

Aside from the NATO riot helmets and other public order gear yep nothing at all was inside. Thats aside from items, possibly officers personal belongings, seen being taken on the footage I watched on TV.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Yup, very bad habit you've got there.... :)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Did you get your idea for that tin foil cover from here

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Surely you're not suggesting that police vehicles aren't kept entirely empty at all times??... :confused: :rolleyes:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

It is entirely possible, for that matter, that someone at the pound, where the vehicle was kept, put it on there for a laugh as well. But, if anyone has an image of the vehicle before it was smashed, that shows the front of the roof without the sticker, I will happily accept it wasn't there before the van was abandoned. But I don't think it could be suggested that the vandals who attacked the van had the forethought to bring a bag of rust with them, to stick to doors of the vehicle.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Yep. And when it comes to it some specialised vehicle are kept for a long, long time.

In fact if I was so inclined I might dig up a photo showing a 10-15 year old vehicle being used a couple of years ago. Oh wait I've already done that... :rolleyes:

Maybe that was just foreshadowing for Operation Baitvan? ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

But then, those vehicles always arrive in current livery.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

*sigh*

I'll tell you what, have a look through flickr or any of the other photo sharing websites that have photos from the student demos. You'll see plenty of photos of riot vans.

A fair number of them are in crap condition as they aren't routinely used and when that happens they rust. Someone else already mentioned that Merc sprinter vans of a certain vintage rust away when someone sneezes in their directions and my own personal experience of older police vehicles is they look and drive like a bag of spanners but they still work so still get used.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

They do both.

That van was not worth thirty-five thousand pounds.

---------- Post added at 12:56 ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 ----------

Or another van being prepared to be left in the middle of a riot.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Obviously the selective googles are working 110% today. From the link earlier in the thread and quoted by Hugh, myself and probably a few others.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

:D

I was going to pass around the festive mince pies but I think this might be more useful for the pain induced by protracted :banghead:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Really, my experience (and that of many Sprinter owners) differs. I am not aware of any inherent bodywork fault with the sprinter.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

no mate its a bi-product of where i work -they are always watching so i keep everything foiled up especially my sandwiches, they don't need to know whats in them - one doese't have to be nuts to work at VM but i find it helps ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

No, it hasn't been filled in at all, but then it does look as though it has been there for a number years.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

If I wasn't working later on, and possibly driving a 8 year old van that shouldn't exist in Flyboy World, I'd need a stiff drink.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

If Derek was to ask any questions, I am sure they would get answered.

What real questions have you asked?

Who?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

perhaps the writing has faded with age -how long does it take for the elements to fade out ink ?.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

:rofl:

Yeah but is it entirely empty??? :D

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Well there would be a first time for everything. :dozey:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Let's try to keep within the realms of probability shall we... ;)

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

From this video about 55 seconds in there are people beside the van with riot helmets (including valid MP markings) and riot shields. So either they brought them along with them or they nicked them from the van.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

But the sticker has clearly been on that van for a very long time. I can't see senior officers allowing it to appear on a serviceable vehicle, can you?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Yeah but, given previous events, what possible use could the police have for a van packed full of riot gear during a major protest in the centre of London? Surely an entirely empty old van put there simply to antagonise all those decent, law abiding protestors into becoming an unruly mob would be of far more use.... :confused: :rolleyes:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

That sticker is not "riot" damaged. Those marks have accumulated over a number of moths, perhaps years.

---------- Post added at 13:29 ---------- Previous post was at 13:19 ----------

I could not see an RFL on the van nor could could I see wthere it wasn't there either, the footage shown in that link is inconclusive as far as number plates are concerend. But I have not seen that livery on a Met vehicle for many years.

---------- Post added at 13:37 ---------- Previous post was at 13:29 ----------

One helmet and two shields do not constitute it being "packed full of riot gear," does it. It could be argued that it was left there as "debris."

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I can't see senior officers personally checking out every van before they leave the yard. In fact I can't see senior officers remotely caring about a sticker as long as it isn't insulting or inappropriate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cn8iZ...eature=related

5 seconds in. Lower nearside of the windscreen. Small, red, round. Looks a hell of a lot like a tax disc to me.

I have, I don't even live in London. There is this marvellous invention called television. On it you can sometimes see events happening hundreds, even thousands, of miles away.

Recently I saw some big demonstrations in London. I saw a lot of Police vans, some had the current Met colours on them, some were older and had the 'old' Met colours.

---------- Post added at 13:41 ---------- Previous post was at 13:40 ----------

Seriously?

First of all you deny there was anything in the van. Now when its proved there was items in the van stolen by the mob you claim they might have been 'overlooked'

NATO helmets are personal issue, they aren't just left in vans when they go in for servicing.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Come on now, that sticker had been there for a very long time, I don't think even you could deny that. I don't suppose you could give us an idea as to why it was there. If it was there from a previous incident, there had been plenty of opportunity to remove from a serviceable vehicle. I can't see that they would have kept a van like that just in case.

It just looks like a sticker to me. If it is an RFL, what is the expiry date?

I can't say I have seen much footage of demonstrations in London, but when I have been to London, which is about twice a month, I have never seen a current police vehicle with the old livery on.

Excuse me?????? When did I do that?

This vehicle was not in for a service. I don't think they service these vehicle in the middle of demonstrations. ;) Nonetheless, would it have been too much trouble for them to leave a spare helmet and two shields in the van?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Quite simply the Police have far more important things to deal with than an old sticker on a rarely used vehicle. Plenty of forces who assist the met with mutual aid have their own unofficial sticker on their riot vans that seem to last through services without being removed.

I give up. Instead I'll just admit that the van, which we have already demonstrated had a valid number plate, was being driven, and is of a similar age to other vans used by the Met in London didn't have a valid tax disc but instead they decided to put a small red sticker, almost exactly the same size as a tax disc, in the same place a tax disc is stuck and no-one has picked up that it wasn't actually a RFL.

Well when they are PERSONAL ISSUE (i.e. each cop has their own, with their own ID on it) then yes it would be too much trouble to leave it in a van.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

what post was the picture of the number plate in -i seem to have missed that ??[ just to save me searching for hours ]

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Do they keep of a stock of knackered vans to police demonstrations? Would they use vans that had not passed the safety tests, for example?

It has not been established either way whether the van had number plates, but it doesn't make any difference. If there is an RFL on the van, what was the expiry date.

So, there exactly the same number of helmets as there are officers, there are no spares, no training gear, no old ones from officers who have left the service (or do they get to keep them?)?

When did I "deny there was anything in the van?"

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Ebay Autocar Roadtestreports andUsedvansadvice

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

But but but its all a conspiracy i tell you,

They are all in league with the police and the Government to make those peaceful law abiding demonstrators OK radical i will admit but peaceful look bad in the eyes of those that have to pay for all the damage. :rolleyes:

It is my belief that there are those in this thread that think THIS is true and factual and would not believe otherwise even if it hit them on there tin foiled covered heads

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

At the end of the day, they did not have to smash it up in the first place did they?

Even if it was placed there intentionally, they took the bait and smashed it up thus damaging the credibility of the whole protest.

They have shot themselves in the foot, clever bunch these students eh?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

And it's not as if they removed anything else from the police van, like the windscreen riot shield, is it?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

And to think some of them might be Surgeons and Doctors soon :rolleyes:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Thank you for that Hugh ,i was in the process of doing the same but you beat me to it ,i will however supply these as proof that the van was indeed taxed ,and there are a few vans in the old livery used on the day ,the one on the extreme left is the one that was wrecked

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgrvHYuSd-Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srljmvrfWFU


http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/at...1&d=1293203412

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

but what if the van was placed there already full of hoodied vandals,strategically placed to incite a riot -perhaps its precious cargo was fifth columnists from within the met -the plot thickens

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

At last - the truth is out!!!!!!

Dumdumduuuuummmmmm!

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Honestly, Fr de Ockham would spin in his grave at some of this loopy nonsense.

It was a proper police vehicle and it got smashed up by people who thought their cause justified criminal actions.

Simples.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

now, now chris ,stop talking sense remember logic is your enemy :nono:

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

well i suppose that's one way of looking at it and your entitled to put forth your theory no matter how contradictory to the evidence it is ;)

Fr de Ockham- wasn't he the bloke who invented shaving .

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

chris

The conspiracy theorist on here already know that. The problem is it does not fit in with there police brutality, Government agenda, That there out to get us theory and no amount of facts or evidence will change that because they don't know any other way they really do believe that there all out to get them.

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/...x629_popup.jpg

on side of van is a number bov this is the van some time ago
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2010/12/19.jpg
if you put reg no here
http://www.askmid.com/ownvehicle/
you get this LX54CPY is on the Motor Insurance Database today

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

is this BOV a unique code given to only one vehicle ?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

I just zoomed that and it looks like 8QV

correction .....you may right though i think the angle is playing tricks with my eyes

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

bqv or 8qv they are on both vans

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

but what do these 2 codes mean ?

Re: Students Rioting in London.
 

No doubt someone will claim it means "Can be used as bait to trap students protesting"

You might think that sounds silly but let me tell you, There has been some total tin foil hatter theories coming out in this thread anyway.