Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

It was an analogy, not to do with being against ntl. I am one of the people that feels that petitions, anticap sites, ant-x,y or z sites would never infuence a major company in its decision. Just trying to raise spirits :shrug:

About the moderation, ok, nazis was the wrong word. I totally agree with this is your site and you can moderate and operate it how you want, but in the community's interest is censorship of a major topic what they really want?

At the end of the day, the people who come here make this place just as much as you made it.

But as said, its at your discretion :shrug: Didn't mean to offend anybody.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

A lot of people were saying it would be cap free 'for now', then introduce caps later in the year. I think the low tier situation had to be sorted out now though, because of the two choices, and that would explain why they are the only service being capped.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I read it as

Hard Cap "coming soon"

and

No change as in no hard cap even later in the year.

I know things can change but thats where we appear to be at for the foreseeable........... untill the next free upgrades:D

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Yes that's exactly how I see it too purenuman - there is to be no hard cap on the new 2/3Mb services.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Since the mods warned the 2 guys who made very valid points against ian@huth care to warn the guys who mock me about british gas? Oh wait, I dont work for ntl and dont own shares so maybe I dont qualify.

It is clear now most isp's imposing caps are having a time of day exclusion, the average user does not browse at 3am and will be unaffected by early morning downloading so what is ntl's reason for not having a exclusion time

It is not done to death because so many questions unanswered

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I read it slightly different.

1Mb customers will have soft cap until later in year when it will become hard.

Other customers WILL be contacted as it says. AFAIK no customers have been contacted about the soft cap since it was introduced. This could change as soon as the new speeds are introduced and heavy users WILL be contacted, maybe starting next week. I don't see the current soft cap continuing as it has.

So it could be that users other than the 1Mb users could be in for action being taken against them earlier than they thought rather than no action ever.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

It's all gone very quiet from the people who were adamant that hard caps were necessary!
__________________

Ian what are you on about? Where does it say other customers WILL be contacted? Surely it's exactly the same situation as now, unless you know something different?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Me gone quiet, never, you should know better. :D

Maybe it doesn't say WILL but look at the difference in wording. It doesn't say "Ntl will be monitoring across the network to identify customers who routinely exceed their data allowance, but not enforcing this allowance". Perhaps a move to suggest they are not capping but leaving their options open. I would imagine that any user who really hammers their new faster speed connection is soon going to know that NTL are not amused. :)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

it is done to death as far as this thread is concerned because until ntl give solid answers all this is just pure speculation ;)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Fair enough I'd say :D

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well the impression I get from these conflicting rumours is that ntl maybe have a bit in hand over their competitors, particularly after their online survey I did the other day? They could possibly be in a position to increase speeds by a much greater amount but are waiting to see what their competitors do. After all there's a massive advatage to having your own private cable network.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I think the Mods monitor things & take a stand against those that post vexatious nonsense obviously in the forum. I think the members notice things & take the wee wee out of those that post stupid nonsense whether its mis-informed or ignorantly stated.

The 2 are related, but if you fall into either category you may not notice. Whilst you think you are being really salient & clever, there is nevertheless a whole clutch of people that snigger quietly at another foolish contribution and disregard it.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Nothing wrong with what they said they just noticed 1 person who doesnt listen to valid points made and so said it out loud.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Ok lets put this into summary here, the point was raised asking why NTL can not allow unmetered downloading between say 1am and 6am and it was argued that is no good since people would have to sit and wait up to click a download button. Then it was pointed out there are things called download queues and some people dont mind and already do wait until that time of night to start their downloads, it was then argued that everyone would start browsing at the time because they worried that they break their cap so it was the pointed out it is unlikely that a million people will suddenly start browsing and read their emails after 1am and that the person arguing wasn't one of the mass users ntl want to keep. It was also pointed out they have noticed he defends ntl even when they are clearly wrong, this they got a warning for even tho nothing abusive was said.

I have seen many abusive comments thrown from pro ntl people and not once has a mod stepped in, I still see many unansewered questions, ignition has attempted to answer some which I aprreciate but there is still many unaswered questions and I think the reason they remain unansewered is because the truth hurts.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Quote:
Customers with the 1Mb service (3GB per month)
Ntl will be monitoring across the network to identify customers who routinely exceed their data allowance, but not enforcing this allowance until later in 2005.

yep agree with this hard cap for this level, can see why as NTL don't want all users to switch from 3meg to 1meg cos its cheaper than higher teirs and plenty fast enough for most downloading and then for them to carry on downloading loads of gigs per month.

Quote:
Customers with the existing services or 2Mb & 3Mb (1GB per day)
Ntl reserves the right to contact customers who regularly exceed their daily usage allowance, where such excessive use impacts the quality of service for other ntl broadband customers.

so no change then, same as what it is a present - good news - but knew this was happening

Its good to have friends in high places at NTL!, people who know what is happening rather than all this scaremongering!,

Back to square 1
No admin fee
No change in daily usage for 2/3meg users
No Hardcap on 2/3meg users

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I almost agree, but would have preferred to see 10gb or even 5gb as the cap on the 1mb service.

However, it seems that most customers on this service don't get anywhere near 3gb, so I am willing to accept the company may be right on this. Time will tell, but I know they will re-examine things if it turns out to be problematic.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Bleh..damn threads, should merge speed and cap discussion and rename it the mother of all threads.
Anyway, why the hell are ntl putting daily limits on the faster tiers and a monthly one on the slowest? I guess 100mb/day doesn't look too good in their publicity, but seriously I can't see the logic.
And yeah I know these are guidlines but most people will at least attempt not to get kicked off the service if they have no DSL alternative.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

And what about if they have a DSL alternative with a cap?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

There's alternatives with much more sensible caps, off-peak allowances etc. Plusnet do a 2mb "lite" service with 30gig *monthly* caps for £15. And that's one of the few companies I've really looked at in depth, I guess there's quite a few other companies doing a similar service for the same money with more logical capping.
ADSL-guide don't seem to provide cap comparison..well not that I've seen from brief visits.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I got all (or rather, more) excited when NTL said they were going to dump the daily cap for a monthly one. Now it seems they are going back to the daily cap idea again...

also, looks like they have dropped the idea of auto-reducing speeds for heavy users?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I think ntl have got it right, 1mb is an entry product and should be capped that way, the other tiers look way more prospective then it so maybe theres that extra incentive to for a couple of customers to bump up their speed.

Actually, I've got to hand it to them, as long as they keep the guidelines for the upper tiers, it makes all the mainstream and alot of the more specialist isps, such as Pipex look weak in comparison :tu:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Chrysalis, I wish that you would look at both the post that I was answering and the answer that I gave to it. If someone says that nobody reads their emails after midnight and I reply that I do, what is wrong with that?

Yourself and a few others don't like the fact that someone is looking at the tripe they are posting and tries to put the record straight. I am neither a NTL lover or hater. I look at what they are doing and back them if I think they are doing things right and slate them if I think they are doing things wrong.

I use the word tripe because that is exactly what it is. Just look at the British Gas and Telenor situations that you have brought up. I do research what I post unlike some.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

They haven't dropped it - they simply don't have the technology installed yet to be able to do it. They will have, quite possibly within a year - and then you can be sure that this will happen.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

As the caps are the same for 2/3mb; what's the point in paying £13 more for a 3mb line, as most won't see the point/benefit really in hitting the wall faster and/or in general usage for that matter?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Can someone tell me what the normal cap is currently on a 300k connection. I'm thinking of getting the opgrade to 1mb but today already my bandwidth download is 120mb so I'm wondering if this new 3gb cap per month will be ok for me.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

1GB per day - same as the 750k & 1.5Mb services.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

The cap for 2mb is said to be 30gig while 3mb will have a 40gig cap

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

No, its 1gb a day for both. The same because its a guideline.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Perhaps once they eventually switch to hard capping, they will change it to a monthly figure - rather than the current daily "guideline". That could be why there were the different figures floating around...some said 30/40GB per month, some said 1GB per day. Maybe 1GB per day initially, like now, then 30GB/month (2Mb service) or 40GB/month (3Mb service) once they start enforcing.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

And it will only be enforced if your usage is causing problems for others locally on the network and refuse to change your usage pattern..........

So it's not a cap, end of thread :D :D :angel:

Later in the year 1mb will be capped but 2&3 stay with guidelines ;)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Don't know if this has been mentioned before but can't be bothered to read five pages to find out.

What is the point of broadband? Bigger and better? All these films that you'll be able to watch online, all the games that you can play all day, all the music that you can download legally (so i've heard) all the websites and all the chat programs etc etc..

One gig a day???

Get real.

I've used a program to calculate my usage for the last month and it's somewhere between one and two gig a day.

I moved to broadband from dial up as NTL like others, courted me with bigger and better speeds and downloads. Now I'm on it, it's 'oooh, don't download too much'.. eh? That's the whole point, or least it was when they wanted us spending more on broadband.

It'll only be a matter of time before the circle starts again and there will be a new level of service, obviously for more money, telling us that it's bigger and better and you can download more.. Til everyone is on it and it's back to square one..

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Welcome to the capitalist economy...:(

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I think you will find they have the technology as they had this when i was working within tech support for them and that was nearly 4 years ago.

More of a case they have binned the staff that know how to use it.

:D

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

basically when the speed upgrades take place it will be a soft cap and later on in the year it may become a hard cap??? Thats not too bad then...

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

If you say so. :)

Assuming you were correct, and they really had this technology installed and working four years ago, do you not think they would have been using it to impose their caps ?

ntl techs may have the ability to interrogate routers, switches, ubr's and even CM's to get raw data flow rates, but this is not the same as monitoring each persons real usage and providing a means for them to see this information, and take action based on it (either the customer or ntl).

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

ntl have sent out letters and/or emails to heavy users in the past and they can tell more or less exactly how much any given user has downloaded but AFAIK this has involved some technical knoweldge rather than an idiot proof system being in place.

I know that a usage script (at ubr level) has been in place for a long time but rumour has it that the original decision by ntl to introduce the 1GB guideline was made when someone got the decimal point in the wrong place when calculating the percentage of 'leechers' and their effect on the network. So it's all been remarkably quiet on the capping front over the last two years as the data they based their original decision on was wrong and indicated a much larger problem than there actually was.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Not too sure as to why they have not been using it to its maximum potential.

At the time I was there it was only the Senior and Team Leaders etc that had access to this and it was at that time mainly used to verify with customer services that a particular user had been without sevice and not been using a connection.

Also we used it for providing stats to AUP in cases for people hammering their connection as at this time there was no official cap as the service had just launched.

The data it gave would be ideal for the cap monitoring know as it can be configured to show a graph showing upload / download amounts in 30min/hourly/daily/weekly/monthly splits and also will show the time the modem was switched on and off etc and connection times and lengths.

Cracking bit of kit they have had for 4 or 5 years but never at the time used to its full potential.

I personally think even with or without these tools the CAP is just as there as a threat as it will serve no real purpose as if and a "big" if someone actually does get dropped back to dial up speeds for abuse then they will either curb their usuage habits or change providers.

:)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I have been a customer with NTL for 3 years now, I have always supported NTL with there prices and there special packages. Until I received a shock about NTL capping there broadband. In my household I have 5 computers connected to the net on a network. 3 computers are mine for my music productions and website and graphic developement. My wife has a laptop always online like myself. My daughter has a computer. I am really shocked at NTL for this capping. If I understand right with NTL they nearly went bankrupt, now they changed things with these special packages at the right price, them loosing money is not our fault. Also there excuse on other broadband users may have difficulties in using there broadband due to people like me and my household who are constantly online doing what we have paid for in the service. I even wanted to move to telewest 4 months ago but i found out i could not as they were not in my area even tho NTL owns Telewest... I found out from my website host that they do broadband connections with free migration but u need a bt line. but they are fast and still unlimited. Also I know BT are very strict too and do not always allow u to come onboard with BT if u have no credit history. but I will be doing this, I will be moving to www.fasthosts.co.uk if NTL don't pull their fingers out of there backside. The reason we all use NTL is there value for money and packages.... I am sure there will be a major percentage of customers they will loose and BT will gain those percentages for the BT lines to get other isp's thru BT lines.... Also think about this where will our DATA PROTECT ACT be dropped or changed since all this is really aiming at the the people who use p2p file sharing programs. Myself & the family have been discussing this situation of NTL for a week now & starting to think what we should do if this effects us in using over 1GB per day... But we will use www.fasthosts.co.uk cause they are a favourite for me on webhosting so I am sure there broadband has an excellent 24/7 service too. I am sorry if some disagree with me, but NTL was is still atm a free care enviroment with no spying from the isp's.......

One more thing we could move to sweden hehehehe May NTL rest in peace if they stick to this capping even when its brought up in House of Commons...

Now this 3MB upgrade from NTL is tempting but will I be penalized heavily for using over 1GB per day as me & my household computer are online constantly 90% of the time....

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Are you saying you use it to run a business then ?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Exactly what has the DPA got to do with this? Assuming NTL can track the amount of data you download (and I have been assured by people in a position to know that the UBRs can do this), they would not need to look at the data itself. After all, assuming they enforce a hard cap and you go over your 1 Gig a day, then whatever restrictions NTL are planning to impose will come into effect whether what you downloaded was legal or not.

BTW, it's also relatively easy to detect P2P program use ,fairly accurately, without analysing the data. I don't think TCP/IP packet headers are covered by the DPA.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I remember ringing CS about the maximum number of pc's on 1 connection. I think it was 3, which suited me for me and the 2 kids at the time.
Is over 3 against the T+C ?
Coz that was the impression i was given. ;)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well they made no mention of this when i told them i intended to set up a network. We live in a shared student house and at one point had 4 connected, until one guys computer broke. Even with three i'm sure we go over the limit regualrly. NTL market to and give discounts to students, and alot of the houses will have more than 3 people accessing the internet. pehaps NTL make some allowance for this?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

No, they don't. It states in the T&Cs about not having any more than 3 PCs on the connection. Unless you stated that your network was going to have 4 Pcs on it, I don't think it's unreasonable that it wasn't mentioned. If ntl reps had to go through the T&Cs with every new customer, the callo queues would be ten times as bad as they are now.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

meh i can't remember what number i gave them, but i was just illustrating that in the case of student houses there will be numerous places which don't stick to these rules IMO, therefore we can assume that NTL don't rigidly inforce this. Generally to me knowledge NTL have been quite nice to their customers in terms of useage and emforcment of T&Cs. Like anything with NTL it depends who you speak to in my experience, luckily i have spoken to the right people for the problems we've had. I agree they can't go through them all but when someone mentions "do they provide/ allow any network equipment" they should probably be told.

Can't say i've ever read all the T&C's myself, i guess most people are also totally unaware of this condition.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Hi and :welcome: to cableforum

Why should the number of people sharing a single connection have any bearing on the bandwidth allowance? It's a bit like saying that you want a bigger allowance because you can't do what you want to do within the set allowance.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Cheers for the welcome :), looking at what i said i didn't express myself quite aswell as i meant to, I just meant that when you market to certain target groups you should take into account their situation i.e. students are likely these days to have a computer each, if anything students should be paying more for higher useage LOL not getting a discount i mean the biggest student houses where i am have 6-10 people in them!. The main point though is that these days its hard to do a course without a computer and internet access, so limiting it to 3 computers per connection seems a little illogical to me for the NTL student offer. Though there is no sign of them inforcing this afaik, so for the moment i guess like caps it isn't really an issue.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I wouldnt take that as a certainty, if there's obviously lots of you doing a fair bit on the net, and your affecting those in close proximity that dont, the new terms and conditions might see you come under the microscope.
Dunno if its like speed cameras and you can say "it wasnt me, someone else was driving".
Or in this case d\loading, but i would'nt count on that. ;)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

well personally if i was contacted by NTL over usesage which i guess is what you are saying, there would be one way to cut useage our dramatically.... ban all the bittorent do ports :p:.For sure larger houses would go over the 1gig a day quite easily. I am a bit more responsible myself and only do heavy downloading/ uploading at night, i'm a member of a car site and do a fair bit of both but i try and impact on my friends on the network as little as possible and I guess other nearby NTL customers aswell. Not sure how the contention works on cable though.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Just A Quick Question AL123. How Do You Get The Student Rates?

Have You Got A Link Or Something As My Sisters At Uni But We're Paying Full Wack At The Moment.

Thanks.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Personally, I think NTL have it all wrong....

Why cap download ... capping upload is much more fun...

This will do 2 things maybe even more...

1. reduce the stress on the bandwidth (as some of you may know if you upload on ntl your download will decrease not by the amount but by a greater amount than that..

1a. it will present ntl with the envious task of being able to prove to the anti-warez lobbies (mpaa/riaa/god/etc) that they are doing something to limit users of these services. By highlighting the ppl that constantly upload this will enable them to look more interestingly at those customers using there service, and discuss if neccessary how to moderate there bandwidth (or make them aware they are a botnet drone for some virus maker somewhere)

1b. I know ignition has mentioned Optimum Online waaay back in the thread, they adopted this kind of policy. My friend at the time was living there and had OO, he thought it was great very fast when you needed it but if you upload past your level (3 hrs @ full upload) it capped, he know but once he phoned and they checked for kazaa running (and possibly others). Now if NTL adopted this wouldn't most peoples issues in here disappear.

2. The main result is to stop the power users from becoming power abusers, but are we talking really about download or upload, the type of heavy user ntl do not want is the kazaa kiddies. Well if you could do the upload cap policy instead of download then I think this will address most of the issue. After so much of uploading at say 20Kb's (256k upload for 3 hours) your capped/monitored whatever.

Perhaps this is something for folks to critisise, flame or champion..

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Sorry if this has already been answered but now I'm on 2mb is the 1GB daily limit inclusive of upload, or is it just download?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Just download. There is an "unwritten" cap of 300meg/day for upload. I don't think anyone has been contacted over it though,

So these pesky bandwidths mean.......
 

Right I know about these bandwidths and that they apply on the new speed upgrades, this concerns me for five main reasons:

1) These bandwidths will be eaten away at by pop ups and ad's
2) These bandwidths will be eaten away by Bulk mails
3) These bandwidths will be eaten away by spam mails
4) These bandwidths will be eaten away at by extended forwards and foward attachments
5) These bandwidths will be eaten away at by online surveys

These are effectively out of the average users control and will effect their bandwidth usage. So say the odd user on the 300K service (much like me ;) ) Uses the net for 6 hours a day, uses e-bay to buy and sell and sends alot of e-mails.
Then general shopping and surfing, based on this I have estimated I will be 500mb over the monthly band width.

Am I correct in my guesstimates and are the problems as I evisage? :confused:

Thanks people. :angel:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

try this bandwidth calculator made buy the guys over at chetnet

http://ben.cheetham.me.uk/data-usage-calculator

very useful :)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Look here.. if they do exactly as they say here, it is very bad news..

http://www.ntlworld.com/service_update.html

So go over 1GB/day for 3 days and you will be contacted. Personally I average about 2GB/day and sometimes go to 3 or 4GB.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Then you need an ISP with no download limits.

ntl have a 1GB per day limit, & you are already going to do double that constantly (& then some)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

The ntl quote I just posted gives the lie to the idea that there is no hard cap on the 2Mb and 3Mb services. Just what will they *do* if I regularly exceed the limit, apart from write to me? It says they will advise people to moderate their usage, but what if people don't, then what?

btw Neil, you presumably think the caps are fine and think 2GB a day is excessive do you?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Who has lied to you? NTL haven't, have they. All this talk of hard caps and soft caps has come from peoples interpretation of what NTL mean by the clauses in their T&Cs and AUP.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I didn't say ntl had lied or anyone had 'lied', maybe that was a poor choice of words. I was pointing out that many here and elsewhere are saying ntl won't be enforcing the 30GB limits. The quote I posted strongly suggests they will be doing just that.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

6. Is there a plan for very 'power users' who exceed the given limits?

"We are considering a range of new services especially for customers who want or need to download large amounts of data - but which will avoid impacting other, ordinary customers"


Well that sounds interesting, lets hope there's something that doesnt cost the earth though. :)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Far from it.

For a residential connection I do, yes.

I can't see how anyone can justify downloading 60GB per month, on a home connection-now that's not to say that it can't be done, but there are only so many "Linux Distros" out there at once.

I don't give a monkey's puffhole what/how much people actually download, I am totally against caps, but I am also against people who claim that that their 60GB per month downloads are all legal/perfectly normal for a home connection, & therefore should be allowed. ;)

ntl don't/won't allow it, which is why I said that you need an uncapped ISP for your particular "needs". :)
__________________

There was originally, about 2 years ago (alledgedly), but it turned outto be nothing more than BS from Aizad the "bovine excretement king" Hussain. :rolleyes:

Don't hold your breath, we had access to the mailbox that ntl set up for so called "power users" to mail them on, it got so full because no one in ntl ever even looked at it.....:dozey:

Hussain & his monkeys/cronies are so full of $h1te, that they wouldn't know good customer service if it jumped up & bit them on the gonads. :td:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

When I say I use 2GB/day, I am including uploads in that. I presume the 30GB does mean upload and download combined? If it just means download, it would be easier to stay within the limit.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Have you actually read the guidelines? ;)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Download only I think.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Is the answer to my question contained therein? Or you could just tell me..

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I could......but then I'd have to kill you for being lazy! :D

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Do us a favour and tell me, or maybe someone else will as you want to play games it seems :rolleyes:

From what I've seen they describe a 'download limit', but I find it hard to believe they would be happy for me to max out my upload 24/7 which would equate to around 1.7GB a day if my maths is right.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

2GB ?

That's a constant 24 KiloBytes of data a second (every second, 24 hours a day). I'd say that's excessive. :erm:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

What is the limit on each UBR in terms of number of connections? If everyone on that UBR downloaded 24KB/sec would it be able to cope?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

So you have 1Gb per day upload? :Yikes: What are you doing that's legal?

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

You know, you are making a sport of yourself, each time you utter the word "legal" on this forum.
Who are you to ask this kind of question every person who doesn't like caps?
Are you an undercover agent of RIAA, MPAA? Are you a prosecutor? What do you know about various habbits of people who surf the Internet?

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2005/03/6.gif

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

The point is that many people struggle to understand what 'legal' reason people need for massive usage allowances. As Neil has said, there are only so many 'Linux distros' people can claim to need without it sounding silly.

And, once it is established that much of this excessive usage is illegal, there comes the question of why an ISP should invest considerable cash in providing a service for people to do things which are illegal. And the answer is, they shouldn't. Bandwidth is not an infinite resource.

Cue several people telling me how they need to download 30 Linux distros a week for 'testing purposes'.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Who am I? What do I do? What do I know? Wouldn't you like to know? ;)

The only people who make comments like that are usually doing something illegal! :D

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

What you are sayingm just shows that you are ignorant of what the Internet is.
I will give you just 2 examples:
1. http://www.researchchannel.org/webcast/ 1300kbps
2. http://www.m1live.com/ 128kbps
Only 2 examples out of hundreds.
You ppl must think before posting your half-masked accusations.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Firstly, who accused you of doing anything illegal?

Secondly, I was asking about uploads, not downloads.

Thirdly, customers that don't do anything illegal with their connections are subsidising those that do.

Finally, caps are only needed because of what the heavy illegal users are using in bandwidth

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

My replay with the links was to Scrotnig.

You accused me when I posted my opinion about caps in the forum that was created for that specific reason along with a poll. I cannot find this post anymore. Strangely enough the post is gone. Probably was deleted by wise Admin.

If you worry about subsiding other ppl needs, you better tell the government to review their point of view on asylum seekers policy. https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2005/03/5.gif

I am off, from this discussion. I wish you all well.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Until Neil exposed it for what it is, the vast majority of people on this forum claimed they needed to download more than 30gb a month because they needed lots of Linux distros. The fact is that that reason is crap, and they were using p2p software. Neil helpfully blew that one out of the water.

I'm afraid it's a fact that the vast majority of people for whom 30gb caps are an issue are using the service for illegal purposes. Some in a private capacity, but others to burn CDs and make money. I accept there a small number of people with legitimate reasons to exceed 30gb but these really are few and far between when set against the customer base as a whole.

I occasionally get music through WinMx. Not nearly enough to go near a cap, but possibly six or seven items a month. However, I'm fully aware that this is deemed 'illegal activity' and I wouldn't expect my ISP, whoever they were, to support my doing that in any way. Nor would I claim on here that I was really downloading Linux distros.

If p2p suddenly got blocked somehow, I'd be disappointed, but I'd accept it, because I'm not making a living out of it.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Can I ask again as I'm sure someone knows (and is willing to give) the answer to this.

Does the 30GB limit include uploads, or not?
__________________

There are plenty of legal ways to use 2GB a day bandwidth - what my uses are is none of your business, but your and others' posts here show your ignorance about the internet.

Re: So these pesky bandwidths mean.......
 

1. Get a pop-up blocker and ad stopper
2. Use a mailwasher type app to check your mail BEFORE you download it
3. Use anti-spam filters to check your mail BEFORE you download it
4. Don't forward any mail, let the originator decide who to send it to.
5. Stay away from sites that do surveys

simple steps to reduce your bandwith hogging list above

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

http://www.home.ntl.com/icat/broadband

It actually lists it as a "usage allowance", rather than specifying up/download limits.

:notopic: But no there aren't. People who "need" to download 2GB per day are either doing something illegal, or need a business connection (or both).

That's true, but if your "use" of your internet connection is affecting others in your area, then it is ntl's business.

:LOL: Your posts here clearly show your ignorance regarding me/us/this site, I suggest you do a little more research before you make sweeping statements like that.

I am totally against the ntl cap (& I don't even have ntl BB) because of the way they introduced it.

They sneaked it into their AUP late on a Friday afternoon, hoping no one would notice (except we leaked it), & then applied to all customers-new & existing & that is why I (& others have an issue with it).

IMO, if you are going to change a service like that, then the change should only apply to new customers, & should also be well communicated & documented to them too (something that ntl are completely incable of), that way those customers can make an informed decision as to whether they want to sign up to an ISP with a cap. Existing customers should have been left "uncapped" IMO as that's what they signed up to.

It kinda reminds me of the old 'Mercury' mobile phone tariffs when they launched many moons ago. Youhad to buy the phone, but the tariff it came with was free evening & weekend calls (to landlines & mobiles I think)

There are plenty of people out there who still have this tariff & it costs T-Mobile (as they are now) a fortune, & those people regularly get contacted by T-Mobile offering them big wads of cash to sign a new contract on a different tariff (not surprisingly, no one takes them up on their "offer"!) & that's what I feel should have happened with ntl & their sneaky cap.

t wasn't so much the cap itself that was the issue, more so the way in which they chose to force it on new & existing customers in a sneaky, underhand way.

So, please don't make sweeping comments about me or my site members (lack of) knowledge of the internet, when most have been using it far longer than maybe you yourself have. :)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Wow. That's a LOT of Porn :dunce:

and nice Response Neil :tu: :tu: :tu: :tu:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

:Yikes::Yikes::Yikes:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

So Mr SmartArse ;) Despite what you implied yesterday, ntl don't explicitly say whether the 1GB/day includes uploads or not. Yes, they imply that it does, but they don't explictly say so. Furthermore, on another page they refer to a quote 'download limit' of 1GB/day. I am quite sure the 1GB does include uploads, but until ntl say officially, nobody knows - maybe not even you :eek:

When did I say I need to? I want to. I don't *need* the internet, or even a computer, or a car, or a TV.. but I have them all because I want them. Anyone who thinks 2gig a day is a lot is having a laugh basically. Christ you can download that in an hour or two with the new speeds if you wanted.

I don't disagree, but it would make more sense to allow (as at least one other ISP does) unlimited OFF-PEAK use, where the network load is far lower. By all means have a cap during peak times. Having a cap for the whole day makes no sense.

I am not a regular here, that doesn't mean I'm new to the internet or wet behind the ears. I post on lots of forums and this is obviously not my main haunt. If someone doesn't know what they're talking about, having more posts than me or having joined before me doesn't alter that basic fact.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

You the man Neil superb post :tu: :tu: :tu:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Ok, so your "want" to download 2GB per day is the problem as ntl don't allow that much data to be downloaded using their BB service.

Agreed, but it should already be clear to you that ntl don't put consumer choice top of their list of priorities.

You will be though! :D

Vice versa too, which why I said for you to not make sweeping statement about me/us.

Correct, but your post count is not relevant here, what's relevant is the posts you have made about the data that you "want" to download, & ntl not offering an uncapped service anymore.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

As long as you arent uploading copywrited music or other material to people then you are fine to continue. It's the uploaders the music/movie corporations are going after as they are the ones distributing the music/movies. So despite your confession! I think you have nothing to worry about.

Although I bet what you listen to isnt music is it young man, I bet it's that loud rubbish which passes for music these days - when I was your age there was real music and singing - non of this screaming and out of tune garbage. We had proper artistics in my day, people we could look up to, real performers. www.sex-pistols.net

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

You forgot Screaming Lord Sutch. ;)


Hopefully. :)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

LOLOLOL!

Rather than respond to this myself, I'll refer you to Neil's reply.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

If he downloads then he also uploads.. even those p2p networks which allow you to leech (eg. WinMX.. btw I despise leechers, who download loads of stuff but choose to upload nothing in return) still upload the files you are downloading off others.

Of course the BPI have so far only gone after the largest uploaders (several thousand files each, iirc) so I daresay he is safe from their attentions.

I'll make no secret that most of my bandwidth usage goes on p2p.. yes, those files people are happy to leech come from people like me, who do upload and share. It's also worth reminding people that not all p2p usage is illegal, and many legal downloads are distributed this way, eg. game demos and Linux distros. Whether those are the type of files I personally use p2p for, I'll leave you to guess ;)

btw please, before anyone gives the 'p2p is bad mmkay' speech, save it, I've heard it already :D

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

So I was right then? :)

I'm willing to bet this site that your downloads are most illegal, I can't see how anyone could download 2GB per day of data legally & constantly.

Not sure what "p2p is bad mmkay'' actually means, so I won't say it.

What I will say is I wish those who want to download warez would stop hiding behind the old "I download Linux ISOs legally"-it's complete cr@p & just sounds pathetic now. :rolleyes:

It's stale & no one believes it-there aren't enough "Linux" ISOs released each month to justify 60GB per month, so that little gem is priceless.

Yes you "could" download large Linux distros legally & genuinely & go over 2GB per day easily, but you couldn't do it over a month, & anyone that says they can/do download 60GB of legal data per month is either lying or using their residential connection for business purposes (or both) IMO. :)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I didn't say I download 2GB a day. I upload around 1GB a day, the rest is downloads. Most of my upload is p2p, the rest is general usage, ie. web, gaming, instant messaging etc.

Despite what you may believe, p2p (bittorrent) is widely used for legitimate purposes. If people like me did not leave their client running - uploading - after our downloads had finished, others wouldn't be able to download anything - or at best they'd get lousy download speeds.

Fwiw here is my bandwidth usage for the past week.. (note my upload for today is low as I have throttled back to try and stay within the 1GB.. I am on target to exceed it though)

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

It's good that you are thinking about others by leaving your p2p client running. :erm: But why not think about the other NTL users around you who may be suffering degraded service because of this?

There are legal uses for p2p but get real, over 60% of internet resources are taken up by illegal use through p2p, irc or newsgroups. Somebody has to pay for all that and it is mainly users who never do anything illegal. You can say that your p2p is justified because of rip-off prices for music, videos and software, but are you justified in ripping off your fellow users? Prices for broadband would probably be lower if all illegal use was stamped out and there may be no need for capping. So just think before complaining about caps that it is you and others like you who are causing them to be implemented.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Oh...that's ok then.

I'm not sure "widely" would be an accurate description, yes it's used for legitimate purposes, but widely? I don't think so personally.

If "people like you" didn't hammer their connections, other customers would have a better service.

As I have already said, you should be with an uncapped ISP.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

I usually agree with most of what you say Neil, but i have to disagree on that point about if 'he' didn't hammer his connection so much, then other customers would have a better service.

I've had many problems with the service from ntl, and not once was it caused by other people (or myself) downloading too much. And from what i've read on this forum, and others, the problems everyone else have been suffering aren't becasue of overuse either. You can't blame people that download too much, for the ongoing (since day one) mail server problems, the ongoing (again since day one) news server problems, and constant outages in certain area's.

The only case i remember of where other people's useage actually affected an area, was in Luton, when ntl oversubscribed the area, and had massive problems with the proxies.

The few people i've seen on here that actually suffered from slower speeds and not being able to reach the speed they should be getting, was due to power problems etc, which some of the guys on here were able to help with.

I would also like to point out that it's actually quite easy to download much more than 2GB a day, in legal downloads. Doesn't mean that everyone is doing it, but it is more than possible. I would also argue that ntl TOLD customers to download pirated films, so they can't really be the moral guardians all of a sudden. :D :Yikes: :D

I'm totally against caps, but i do admit that sometimes there is a need for them. I'm glad to see ntl have taken a semi-sensible approach to them, the wording seems to infer that you will only be contacted if you are a heavy user AND that heavy use is causing problems for other users. That's fair enough. I can understand that i'd be pretty ****ed off if someone else was using up my bandwidth, so i wouldn't wanna do it on other people. :angel:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

That's not what I said though.....

__________________

:notopic:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

Uploading is though. And on all P2P networks, you upload while you download. Better stick to newsgroups and IRC. :erm: :D :rolleyes:

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

The wording on one part of their site implies that (not infers :p: ), yes.. but then you go to this page and it seems a lot tougher..

http://www.ntlworld.com/service_update.html

So use 1.1GB a day for 3 days out of 14, and you will be contacted, according to that.

Re: *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion Here Please.
 

It's still the same point Neil. You're claiming that He and others like him, are degrading the service. Which, as yet, i've seen no evidence for (apart from that time in Luton).