Re: U.S Election 2020
 

The Supreme Court made a fresh order last night, check the date of that order.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

This is a good article on the actual legal battles the Trump campaign are having: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/1...lection-434360

There is a gap between the rhetoric and the stuff they actually want to test in court. Many of these accusations are specific and therefore they should be able to be proven if true.

I have no doubt there will be some disqualifying ballots. People who voted in the wrong state, people who didn't fill in the form wrong, people who cast a vote despite being a felon and so on. Many of these would be caught by the existing processes via the concept of a 'provisional ballot' but you get these problems in every election. It's completely different from the evidence of systemic and widespread fraud.

So I have no problem with Trump going to the courts on this. If it's not true it's not going to get anywhere and if it did turn out to be true then obviously that needs to be addressed. Also recounts are also perfectly fine and any campaign would request them if they lost by narrow margins.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Yes, it's a ruling that covers what they were already doing

https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisond...h=7c7400ec3026

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Absolute rubbish Den. I have no political agenda, and FYI, they are not my Republicans, I just don’t trust the Democrats, given their cheating efforts in 2016 as well when they paid for the Fake Russian dossier. I do have issues of cheating, you want fair elections Den?

All folk want to do here is deny Trump his right to question the absolute claims of cheating that appear to have been going on here.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

I agree, people voted for Trump because he was different and not the usual conventional politician at the time, also he was up against Clinton. The positives was he shook things up but he's ended up a total clown. He was what was needed at the time but now he's just a joke. And now we're seeing his true colours.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

My problem is Trump questioning it to create uncertainty around the result without proving it. That's why I think he should be doing this in the courts and not on Twitter/media.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Nope, it’s a second order, they can no longer be counted towards voter tally.

---------- Post added at 10:09 ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 ----------

There is plenty of proof, plenty of Americans complaining of voting irregularities.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

l have always wanted fair elections Mick as that is what democratic democracy should be as l think Donald Trumps claims of cheating are baseless and unsubstantiated and are more to do with him being a very sore loser but alas he is not the first sore loser in US elections l will grant you that.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Ok then we let it play out in the courts.

Same with the recounts. I don't see why everyone is so worried about this process. America is a functioning democracy, not a banana republic. If the Democrats have engaged in mass-scale voting fraud then they'll be found out (I don't know if there is another election or what the US does in that case) and if not then at least people can have confidence in their process.

I am sure there will be individual cases of bad ballots and fraud just as there always is and in those cases weaknesses will be identified and fixed and any criminality will see people in prison.

Although one thing I think everyone will agree on is they need to sort out this counting situation. Entering day 4 now! I can't believe we've come to this but they should all copy Florida.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Yes, to formally confirm compliance with an existing direction from the 28th, not an order for a new behavior

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN27N030

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

You only like democracy when it's a candidate you favour,is that what your trying to say here? democracy is for the people and that is why this should be scrutinised by the courts, for the people's and for democracy's sake.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

What a load of unmitigated bollocks as usual as one thing l have always done is accept the results of democratic democracy whoever wins....

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Democracy is democracy, but cheating in a democracy isn’t. We had plenty of that by your side, after Brexit vote, not you specifically Den.

---------- Post added at 10:32 ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 ----------

Exactly, so It’s a second order.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

They should have accepted that it was the result of a democratic mandate even although it was not the result l personally wanted.

Once one does not accept democratic democracy then its a slippery road downhill from there.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Someone cheated? Is there any evidence?

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

The counters better not be taking the weekend off.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

U.S is becoming a Banana Republic, did you see the disgusting tweet by AOC, the congresswoman, demanding all Trump backers and supporters be placed on a political list, these folk be treated with disdain, sneered at, so it hampers them when it comes to getting jobs, I mean the Democrats are rotten to the core anyway but do you condone this Communist approach, rounding up the folly, by a Democrat congresswoman, AOC?

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

I don't think the US is becoming a Banana Republic. The very fact the most powerful person in the world is powerless to stop this count and this election unless he avails himself of the proper legal process is evidence of that.


I did see that tweet from AOC and think given the connotations she would be wise to be careful about that kind of thing.

This is what she said:

It certainly doesn't help lower the anger level in the States right now.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Apparently it’s a joke when Trump says it at a rally....

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/p...es/3702995001/

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Re: U.S Election 2020
 

I'll take that rant as a yes then shall i.

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Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Not a rant as l am just saying it as it is.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

It’s a second order, but it’s meaningless - it only confirms the process that was existing. Nobody was mixing these votes in with the rest of the ballots. They’ve not been counted and even if Trump manages to suppress the vote by getting them thrown out he will lose the state.

It’s good for Trump to get a “victory” in court simply because most people won’t bother to check the detail and then portray it in the manner you just did. Implying that something underhand was going on when it wasn’t.

It’d be like going to court to get a majority defined as 50%+1 of the legally valid votes. Nobody was disputing it.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

I imagine the troll farms in St Petersburgh won't be either, and are probably on double time, stirring up the divisions in the US by magnifying extreme views.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

It may elevate any crime into a federal issue meaning the state cannot sweep it under the rug. Dunno for sure.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Trump needs to stop being such a snowflake and man up.

Biden's going to have a tough time. Unlike Trump who a inherited asuccessful growing economy and to his credit, didn't mess it up too much, Biden will be inheriting an economy in decline due to Covid 19/Trump's mishandling of Covid 19 (take your pick). He also won't have control of key aspects of government like the senate so his ability to implement his policies will be hindered.

So, if Trump plays his cards right, he will be the bigger man, acknowledge the inevitable and re-focus on success in 2024. The Trump fan base will still be there for him.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

The problem in some states right now seems to be that their rules permit postal votes that are postmarked on or before 3rd November to be counted as long as they arrive within a certain period, that varies from state to state but could be as much as a week later. So right now they are actually waiting to see how many such votes arrive in the post over the next couple of days. This wouldn’t have been a problem in some years when the result was very clear but the race is so tight in so many places that it’s not possible to call them.

If you want to blame anyone for this, you could blame the US Postal Service, or possibly you could blame whoever has failed to resource the USPS to cope with the entirely predictable demand for its services at a time of pandemic. Now I wonder who it was who refused to sign off on that.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Or you could blame the Legislatures which wouldn't agree to change state laws to allow pre-counting the mail-in ballots...

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

It’s doubtful that would have made much difference. If the tellers have to wait a week for postal ballots to come in, there will come a point where they’re just sitting around waiting to see what’s in the morning mail. The legislation allows for ballots to come in a week after polling day because it can take that long for postmarked mail to get to its destination. That’s a weakness in the processes of the USPS, and acknowledging that, plus the surge in demand, the service asked for more federal funds to help it cope. Trump took some obvious satisfaction in turning them down.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

A nice fact check of some of Trump's claims

https://apnews.com/article/election-...source=Twitter

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

One mans fact check is another mans cover up.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

You’re starting to sound as desperate as the Donald :rofl:

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Looking at it from the outside it all looks a bit bent to me,i'm not as you put it desperate, just concerned for the future of democracy,if it dies in the usa the rest of us are all screwed.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Few more counts expected in the next couple of hours which might convince the networks to call it.

---------- Post added at 16:04 ---------- Previous post was at 15:59 ----------

Trump closes the gap again in Arizona. VERY SUSPICIOUS! Where are they finding these votes all of a sudden! ;)

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Based on what? the hearsay of a few dubious sorts claiming they heard from someone else something dodgy happened, none of it stands up to any sort of scrutiny so far

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Where indeed, this whole election has a bad smell to it,investigat everyone i say.

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Re: U.S Election 2020
 

It's the way the whole postal vote has been handled it has a bad smell to it ,and many of the state officials don't seem to give a damn because they dislike trump.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

CNN just called it for Biden.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

When the Citizens United ruling went through, that was the beginning of the end of Democracy in the USA, giving the special interests and their lobbyists even more power in Washington - it's what has led to $14 billion being spent on this election.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Never in doubt :P

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Even the Republicans in Georgia?

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

ABC, CNN, NBC all declaring it.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

bloody hell:shocked:

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Trump is the first sitting President to lose their re-election bid since George Bush Snr in 1992.

I think he would be favourite to get the nomination if he wanted to run in 2024.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

I would't worry. Both Arizona and Pennsyilvania have been called for Biden. Just waiting for Nevada, Georgia and North Carolina.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Biden clinched Pennsylvania and its 20 electoral votes which gives him 284 electoral votes.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

BBC shows Biden as having won.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

great news bye bye trump

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

A bit prematurely I think. Perhaps not, so have Associated press.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...5&d=1604767296

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Expect the recounts to start and this drag on into December

---------- Post added at 16:36 ---------- Previous post was at 16:35 ----------

Well it is the Biased Broadcasting Corporation.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Depends on what happens in the other States. If he gets to 302 he won't need Wisconsin or Georgia. The recounts could overturn Wisconsin, Georgia and he could lose Arizona and he would still be above 270.

---------- Post added at 16:43 ---------- Previous post was at 16:42 ----------

Fox News have called it as well AND called Nevada at the same time.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

I think everyone now has called it for Biden, I'm getting lots of alerts through.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Stop the count!!!!!!

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

You're starting to sound like someone who doesn't want to watch this until december or beyond :)

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

CNN reporting Biden is 'going to give Trump time' before proceeding with the transition.

---------- Post added at 16:45 ---------- Previous post was at 16:45 ----------

Getting impatient for 2024 to be honest.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

The homepage of the conservative-leaning website Drudge Report has called it.

https://www.drudgereport.com/

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

I WON THIS ELECTION, BY A LOT! - Donald J. Trump (Twitter).

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Even Fox has admitted Biden won it now.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Wonder if there will be a few law changes re postal fra er voting before then.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

I hereby declare MYSELF as President-Elect. Well done me.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Biden is President Elect. He's won.

Trump's headed for the golf course...

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Fox News themselves, i.e the Decision Desk. Wouldn't be reluctant to call it if they were sure. They were first to declare Ohio and thus Obama's re-election back in 2012. A great moment because it caused Karl Rove to whine about it.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Lets have a peoples vote,the election was based on lies ,they didn't know what they were voting for,it's not too late to beg Trump to stay.:)

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

You must respect democracy old chap ;)

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

That's a first from you;)

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

There will be another election in four years ;)

The expectation is that Biden won't run again because - well we know why - so Harris is favourite to be the Democratic nominee.

I also think Trump will want to run again. He has a very passionate and loyal fanbase who will get him the nomination if he wants it.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Depends if he's still able to qualify

https://www.businessinsider.com/laws...20-9?r=US&IR=T

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Unless Trump concedes he can still investigate and dispute this in court so it's not over yet.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Depends if he resigns then Pence pardons him. Not sure if he can qualify to run again if he resigns first.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

He'll be in jail by then. Lock him up.

He might hunker down at his golf course, building a massive wall around it. He and everyone else will be happy, so that's all good.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

They seem to be civil suits so jail time is unlikely. Trivialities.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

He can, but so far the grounds they're trying in the court to date aren't enough to change the result.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

I second this nomination

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Well they haven't investigated the ballots yet. The law moves slowly.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

So everyone else including his millions of supporters will be happy? :rolleyes:

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

A concession wouldn't prevent him from going via the courts.

I think it's very unlikely to get anywhere in the courts. They can't overturn the votes of a state and - at the moment - it looks like even if they could they would need to overturn more than one state to get him under 270 votes.

Remember in the case of Pennsylvania Biden has won this without those ballots that are part of the legal actions.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

He won't concede if he thinks he can win in courts, that isn't how he crafts narratives. I guess it is up to state legalities if the counts get modified, but I don't think 2 states would be difficult if he can pull out overt recount descrepencies in both cases.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

There's also the little matter of evidence. Courts are pedantic about that sort of thing. Apparently tweets don't count.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Evidence arrives after investigation.

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Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Well it couldn't be the two states for which there are recounts as that wouldn't be enough so he either needs a big state and one of those I mentioned or three states.

It would end up the Supreme Court and he would need large evidence of widespread fraud. The Supreme Court is, imo, not going to flip multiple states to change the winner of the election without something really, really big.

So yes if Trump has evidence the election was literally rigged then he might have a shot but if he is complaining about some of the process then nah.

---------- Post added at 17:38 ---------- Previous post was at 17:34 ----------

Just as an example the Trump campaign has had another press conference at 'Four Seasons Total Landscaping' (Trump originally said Four Seasons, Philadelphia so people assumed the hotel, not sure if it's a mistake and they got the wrong Four Seasons...) and again in response to requests for evidence they didn't provide any.

If you have it, show it and go to court. Otherwise you can't expect people to give it much attention and weight.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

He may trigger a recount by providing evidence to the state legislator. It is a state level unless federal law is broken. The Kennedy election was suspecious but the person involved got appointed as the district attorney and promptly decided not to investigate himself, by that time Kennedy was already president and the federal level decided not to pursue it.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

As I said we'll see. He hasn't provided too much so far and Biden can do without any single one of these states. Until a serious court challenge looks possible I don't think there is any reason not to press ahead with the assumption Biden is the President-Elect.

---------- Post added at 17:52 ---------- Previous post was at 17:51 ----------

World Leaders including Boris Johnson have stated congratulating Biden and the phone calls will be being made soon I would assume.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Evidence of what?

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Fraud.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

If you can pull off a con this size in the USA [if it is proven to be ] the rest of us small fry are screwed, when it happens here and everyone turns a blind eye it will be too late democracy will be dead comrade sephski ;). i mean look at the situation now 1 fake graph and all of England has lost it civil rights .

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Youre assuming state and non-state actors aren’t already interfering in our elections. :D

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

So how have you discovered evidence of this 'con' from Cleethorpes?

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

we don't all live in a cabbage patch;)

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Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Good luck with that.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Trump expanded his vote since last time including amongst minorities. So either a much much larger number of people decided to oppose him this time or the numbers are rotten. Those are the two stories in conflict here.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

The Democrats have increased their vote by 9 million so obviously more came out to vote for them then came out to vote for Trump.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

It makes sense.

The turnout was much higher so there is no conflict in Trump adding to this total but Biden added more.
Remember more people voted against Trump last time as well but this time the Democrats won the Electoral College and last time they didn't.
Turnout was 66.9% this time, 55.5% last time. This is the biggest turnout since 1900.

The Popular Vote last time was:

Clinton: 48.2%
Trump: 46.1%

This time (so far) it's:

Biden: 50.5%
Trump: 47.7%

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

Trump lost the popular vote in 2016 and he's lost by a bigger margin in 2020. He's encouraged people who don't bother to vote to do so, so give him credit there.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

That data is consistent with both stories. That is what I am saying.

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

What wouldn't be consistent though is why didn't the Democrats rig the down-ballot races as well? They're not going to get the Senate and lost seats in the House. You would at least think they would rig it so they capture the Senate

Re: U.S Election 2020
 

And if the story's are correct some of those voters got to do it multiple times via the postal ballot system , it was a good year for dead people voting according to trumps lawyer. it really is the greatest country in the world if you get a vote after being dead for several years.